1. Rushing: The Giants are 27th, and in two games now averaging 74.5 yards per game (nearly 10 yards fewer than the Buffalo Bills). Note, just for fun: Houston is 1st at more than double the NTG number.
2. Pressure: Eli Manning has been sacked 8 times now. That's third-highest in the league. League high is 10 (Tyrod Taylor), and Jimmy Garoppolo has been sacked 9 times.
3. Time of possession: Still, the Giants' average time-of-possession is 11th (at 31:20 per game).
4. Leading receiver is: The Giants leader in receptions - clearly out of necessity - is Saquon Barkley (16), while the team's No. 1 wide receiver has 15 catches.
5. Completion percentage Eli Manning's completion percentage is 69.1, which ties him for 12th in the NFL in that category with Patrick Mahomes. That's his highest completion percentage in his career. It's also more than 9 percentage points higher than his career average (59.9). Moreover, the following last names of NFL quarterbacks have a lower completion percentage than Eli Manning so far this fall:
* Newton
* Brady
* Darnold
* Foles
* Trubisky
* Cousins
* Prescott
* Goff
* Dalton
* Flacco
* Ryan
* Stafford
* Roethlisberger
* Bradford
* Bortles
* Keenum
* Watson
* Wilson
* Gabbert
* Garoppolo
6. Time: We've looked at the average amount of time Eli Manning has had to throw the football in years past. The times have been among the shortest (league worst) in 2016 (2.53 seconds) and 2017 (2.50 seconds). The number isn't quite as bad this year so far, but it's not good (2.70 seconds).
7. Facing 8 in the box: Looking at a couple other rushing-related stats, the first shows that 24.14% of the time they come to the LOS, Saquon Barkley and Eli Manning are looking at defenses with 8 players in the box.
8. Time in the backfield: Another interesting stat tracks a running back's average time spent behind the LOS after a hand-off. Saquon Barkley's time behind the LOS thus far is 3.02 seconds. To get an idea how that number compares, this is among the longest time spent in the backfield, with the vast majority of RBs having a lower number than 3.0 seconds. Four RBs with numbers higher than 3.02 seconds are: Todd Gurley, Adrian Peterson, LeSean McCoy and Zeke Elliott.
9. QB rating on par: Eli Manning's QB rating thus far is 84.5. That's a single point above his career QBR (83.5). His QBR was 73.9 in 2007 when he was lights-out in the post-season. He's certainly not "lights out" so far, but given the circumstances, he's absolutely adequate. Moreover, the following last names of NFL quarterbacks have a lower QB rating than Eli Manning so far this fall:
* Watson
* Ryan
* Foles
* Garoppolo
* Trubisky
* Stafford
* Keenum
* Gabbert
* Taylor
* Mariota ... while these are only 4 points or fewer above Eli Manning:
* Roethlisberger
* Luck
* Prescott
* Carr
* Darnold
Put all these facts together and tell me again how the problem is Eli Manning?
I'm sitting in an office full of non Giants fans and they all agree the offensive line is brutal, but Eli is to blame for some of it.
He's not the entire problem, but he isn't making anything better when he has the chance.
As to stats, most often they dont tell the full story. Even Eli, almost threw for 300 yards and that was not indicative of performance (his fault or not). Then theres Ryan Fitzpatrick..
so many posters killed him for the Pick 6 last week saying he needs to take the sack, then this week, there were a lot of posters saying he can't take the sacks.
Basically, the failures of the OL is contributing to a lot of shitty outcomes
my eyes tell me part of the problem is Eli. The man threw one nice pass last night and he plays like he's in fear. I want him to be 2011 Eli, but it's not going to happen. My guess is they ride Eli till the end of the year and sprinkle in Lauletta at some point. Cut him during the off season with $17 mil in cap savings and only $4 mil in dead money
That is the MOST SIGNIFICANT issue.
Given all he is facing, ZERO interceptions on him in 2 games. I don't count the deflection as being on him.
He eats sacks and throws it out of bounds instead of throwing gifts, he checks down, he does the best he can.
It sucks. These awesome receivers, and he can't get set, can't EVER be comfortable in the pocket.
It's like having a Ferrari with 4 donut-spare tires on it. All the power in the world, but it's going NOWHERE fast.
By the way, what is the point of having a fullback on the team if he can't pick up the blitz? Holy hell.
Every QB is facing tons of pressure, because nearly every team in the league has at least one elite pass rusher these days, and it gets compounded by the exotic blitz schemes being designed by DC's, as well as the overall lack of NFL readiness of the collegiate OL talent due to the popularity of the Air Raid, Spread offenses in the college game.
That's why QB's with very good mobility are and will be the most valuable and successful QBs in the NFL. There ARE NO CLEAN POCKETS IN THE NFL ANYMORE. I mean, there are, but they are rare. A successful NFL QB in today's game must have the ability to avoid pressure with his legs.
That is the reason why you can put 5 All-Pro OL in front of Eli and the offense will still stall. It's true. Some of you guys just need to accept this and then it will make it easier to wait this thing out until the new QB era begins.
Given all he is facing, ZERO interceptions on him in 2 games. I don't count the deflection as being on him.
He eats sacks and throws it out of bounds instead of throwing gifts, he checks down, he does the best he can.
It sucks. These awesome receivers, and he can't get set, can't EVER be comfortable in the pocket.
It's like having a Ferrari with 4 donut-spare tires on it. All the power in the world, but it's going NOWHERE fast.
Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Pat Mahomes, Carson Wentz, Aaron Rodgers, and I could continue.
But so many are saying "Eli is toast." Meanwhile, others are saying Eli is immobile, like it something new. I have to wonder what they've been watching over the years. It's frustrating not because I'm an apologist. It's frustrating because ... what if?
so many posters killed him for the Pick 6 last week saying he needs to take the sack, then this week, there were a lot of posters saying he can't take the sacks.
Basically, the failures of the OL is contributing to a lot of shitty outcomes
Throw the ball AWAY ...
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Joe Montana would have already been removed on a stretcher. Tom Brady has NEVER had to deal with this.
Given all he is facing, ZERO interceptions on him in 2 games. I don't count the deflection as being on him.
He eats sacks and throws it out of bounds instead of throwing gifts, he checks down, he does the best he can.
It sucks. These awesome receivers, and he can't get set, can't EVER be comfortable in the pocket.
It's like having a Ferrari with 4 donut-spare tires on it. All the power in the world, but it's going NOWHERE fast.
Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, Pat Mahomes, Carson Wentz, Aaron Rodgers, and I could continue.
3 of those guys you listed have already missed time with major injuries and in the case of Rodgers, it's happened to him more than once.
It's kind of a testament to how durable Eli Manning is. That guy gets his clock cleaned and still gets up.
I've been watching this team for 50 years and Eli has been one of franchise's top 5 players in that time, but the offensive line saga has made him gun-shy and shell-shocked.
With the right group around him, I wouldn't doubt that he could make a run to the playoffs. However, behind this god-awful line, his immobility is killing him and the flow of the offense. That's what my eyes are telling me.
It's sad to see...He was a lock Hall of Famer five years ago and I don't think he gets in now. 3-16; Can't score 30 point in a damn game. I know it's not all on him, but he's a part of the problem.
I was on board for picking Barkley (and he does look special). Its a new coach and new system and maybe I was unrealistic that they would click right away. Maybe it will take some time so I'll give it a few more weeks before passing judgement.
Somehow, someway, Manning needs to win a few games here. Boy, this offensive line sucks, but he isn't playing well either. I for one will root like hell that he can turn this thing around. If not, the end may be coming sooner than we all think.
There ARE NO CLEAN POCKETS IN THE NFL ANYMORE. I mean, there are, but they are rare.
That's just not true. Last week's Bears-Packers game is a perfect example. Green Bay doesn't win that game, doesn't come back like they did, without a clean pocket the entire second half. Rodgers gimping around ... and he was essentially untouched.
Point is, that game last night, the Dallas defensive approach, was unlike many I've seen against the Giants. It was unlike the game the week before, even playing a stout D like Jacksonville's. Without an over-matched O-line, the Dallas "genius" D coordinator is not able to dial up whatever the hell he wants.
There's a problem, all right.
If Eli throws the ball away - STAND IN THERE AND MAKE A THROW. ELI HAS HAPPY FEET.
If Eli takes a sack - YOU GOTTA THROW THE BALL AWAY. ELI IS PLAYING SCARED.
If Eli forces a ball that gets picked off - TAKE A SACK!!! STOP FORCING IT.
Its as predictable as the sun rising in the east, and setting in the west.
I've watched every play. You blaming the quarterback signals that you may not be extremely astute. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose.
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And then find open receivers downfield, but he can't.
There ARE NO CLEAN POCKETS IN THE NFL ANYMORE. I mean, there are, but they are rare.
That's just not true. Last week's Bears-Packers game is a perfect example. Green Bay doesn't win that game, doesn't come back like they did, without a clean pocket the entire second half. Rodgers gimping around ... and he was essentially untouched.
Point is, that game last night, the Dallas defensive approach, was unlike many I've seen against the Giants. It was unlike the game the week before, even playing a stout D like Jacksonville's. Without an over-matched O-line, the Dallas "genius" D coordinator is not able to dial up whatever the hell he wants.
There's a problem, all right.
Did you watch that game Beez? In particular, the first half? The Bears were all over Rodgers. In the second half, on a gimpy leg and figuring he was out there for show, they dared him to beat them by dropping back and they lost.
The reason I ask is that point #6 reads, "We've looked at the average amount of time..."
Who is "We"?
Usually article writers (or posters) don't use the word "We" unless they're with an organization or a website like PFF.
Just not the case. How many seasons with offensive lines comprised of at least a few guys who were not NFL players?
Reminds me of the 2005 playoff game in which the linebacking corps was so decimated by injury that there were our starters that day: Nick Greisen, Kevin Lewis and Alonzo Jackson (who started one game in his very short career - THAT one).
No matter what you do, you're not going to win football games with sub-par players at key positions. That's what we have right now with at least THREE positions on our offensive line (imo).
Actually Reese was the problem. His stench is going to be felt for years.
The reason I ask is that point #6 reads, "We've looked at the average amount of time..."
Who is "We"?
Usually article writers (or posters) don't use the word "We" unless they're with an organization or a website like PFF.
"We," as in BBIers. There have been at least a few conversations about the time Eli has had to throw the football, and how he's had among the smallest window the last few years.
For that and a few other stats, I looked at this site.
The other stats ... NFL stat leader boards. Nothing outrageous.
WE ... have talked about this on BBI. lol - ( New Window )
The reality is that the best QB's in this league often are able to perform in the face of poor circumstances around them. There are a lot of bad offensive lines in football - this isn't a problem unique to the Giants.
Tom Brady is a very, very large exception. But zero mobility QB's are very difficult to win with now because it's so hard to get them the type of protection necessary.
A lot of the reason Eli is getting sacked so much is Eli.
Yes, it's also bad protection. When the fullback just completely whiffs on a slot blitz and the pressure gets to Eli before he can even make reads, there's nothing we can really do about that.
But if you don't think Eli is a part of the problem, I think it may be time to start re-considering...
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Both the OLine and Eli are huge parts of the problem.
Actually Reese was the problem. His stench is going to be felt for years.
He was and his impact is still felt on the team, I agree. But the OLine and Eli are big issues now, as well.
Dlinemen are eating that up. zero fear of what happens if they get sucked in or too far upfield.
so its much easier to scheme- add in the fact the OL is poor and we dont execute or chip... well there you go.
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In comment 14080865 allstarjim said:
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And then find open receivers downfield, but he can't.
There ARE NO CLEAN POCKETS IN THE NFL ANYMORE. I mean, there are, but they are rare.
That's just not true. Last week's Bears-Packers game is a perfect example. Green Bay doesn't win that game, doesn't come back like they did, without a clean pocket the entire second half. Rodgers gimping around ... and he was essentially untouched.
Point is, that game last night, the Dallas defensive approach, was unlike many I've seen against the Giants. It was unlike the game the week before, even playing a stout D like Jacksonville's. Without an over-matched O-line, the Dallas "genius" D coordinator is not able to dial up whatever the hell he wants.
There's a problem, all right.
Did you watch that game Beez? In particular, the first half? The Bears were all over Rodgers. In the second half, on a gimpy leg and figuring he was out there for show, they dared him to beat them by dropping back and they lost.
Yes. I watched. And yes, you're correct. They dropped back ... gave him time ... and he had a clean pocket. That was their failing, but I think the overriding takeaway there is: give a guy like that another second in the pocket and there's success. Maybe if Dallas had taken pity, we'd have won last night late? lol Or maybe if we had better players on the line ...
Twice Eli had 3 completions, without a first down....what does that tell you? He was dumping the ball.....all night......Hell, he had 3 completions, and needed a qb sneak to get a first down, on fourth down....
We had OBj, SS, EE, and SB, all healthy, and after 3 quarters, all we had was a fg to show for it.....how was this offense any different from the one last year, that had no weapons?
If Eli was a statue back there, I am sure he could easily throw the ball for long completions....but he can not function behind the OL that we presently have....and I can see C, RT, and RG easily being replaced next year, and the book on Hernandez is not complete yet....he is a rookie playing like a rookie, and is not the road grader or pass protector we expected.....and our overpaid LT will be another year older.....so what are our expectations for next year, when management knew the weak link of our offense was the OL? Trust them to fix it next year?
And by the end of this year, Eli may be shell shocked, and if smart, should retire, to avoid the embarrassment of being cut....Because I don't think this OL will be much better next year, and like I said Eli can not function behind this kind of line......
I guess that means I wouldn't be the problem either. Put a blindman at QB, imagine how bad those stats would be. But he would not be part of the problem either.
Eli has never been a stand and deliver qb, aside from some really tough playoff games, which I will always admire him for.
D. Lawrence is 100% correct that Eli has gotten fearful backthere. To his credit, he should. The OL has not been NFL caliber for 5+ years of battering.
However, he needs to watch the film with his coaches and see what he is doing on the 5 second plays. A few of those make the difference between wins and losses, 100% in both of the last 2 games.
10ball 4 life, though its his last year in Blue.
Dak didn't get hit much last night, but the Giants did get some pressure on him. The difference was his ability to scramble away from it and throw a dart into a tight window. Eli doesn't have that ability.
We saw this the last two years and it's worse this year. Every player's skills diminish in time. The pressure of letting fans decide what is best for the franchise has now set this team back. This season will absolutely be a repeat of last year. Whether or not Shurmur can keep the locker room will be the question. The defense has played well enough to win in both games, but the offense cannot move the ball. Something is going to give.
And as far as other QBs in the league. If you watched the KC-Pitt game, you would have sworn there were no DL in the game because they were never EVER in the backfield.
BTW, FWIW, Rodgers wasnt touched once in the 2nd half of his game. And he stood in the pocket many time surveying the field.
All you need to do is look at last night when Dak was fooling our defense. We were so keyed on Zeke that we let Dak run around the end twice. Then, of course we are not going to pursue as hard next time because someone has to stay home and keep an eye on Dak.
The Cowboys are smart not only to do that to win this game but also it gets on film and it impacts how other defense will play against the cowboys.
So, with Eli it really is much easier. Then, when they see how he basically bails on the play (either by checking out of it or mentally) when he sees a rush coming, no wonder we are getting blitzed on every play.
Dak didn't get hit much last night, but the Giants did get some pressure on him. The difference was his ability to scramble away from it and throw a dart into a tight window. Eli doesn't have that ability.
We saw this the last two years and it's worse this year. Every player's skills diminish in time. The pressure of letting fans decide what is best for the franchise has now set this team back. This season will absolutely be a repeat of last year. Whether or not Shurmur can keep the locker room will be the question. The defense has played well enough to win in both games, but the offense cannot move the ball. Something is going to give.
Impossible to disagree with this.
But his time is over. He does not fit the new NFL where the QB has to be able to move around (not scramble, but more in or out of the pocket to buy more time to throw the ball)
FOURTEEN
So to point to his completion percentage as a positive is not a good argument.
The same people lauding Eli for his completion percentage would be the same people who belittled Alex Smith's (captain checkdowns) numbers