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How long until we sit Eli?

Josh in the City : 9/17/2018 11:35 am
I'm not saying this to start controversy or bash Eli but to have a conversation about the future of the franchise. Some might say this conversation is premature but McAdoo tried to begin the process of moving on from Eli last year and it blew up in his face. He went about it completely the wrong way and the fanbase revolted. But it's been a very long time since Eli has been a productive QB in the league (again, let's not debate the reasons why here) so it's only smart to begin thinking about how this should/could happen.

If this season stays on it's current course and spins out of control, at what point is it time to sit Eli and explore other options? Unfortunately, we released Davis Webb before the season began so the options aren't great with a journeyman backup (Alex Tanney) and a rookie 4th rounder (Kyle Lauletta). Do the Giants give one of those guys a shot behind this oline? Does it depend how Lauletta looks in practice? And if so, what does that transition look like?

To me, it would have made sense to keep Webb & Lauletta on this roster and let them continue to compete throughout the season. I guess Webb wasn't Shurmur's kind of QB and he's the "QB Guru" so who am I to question that?

So what's the plan here? Do we even have one?
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I tweeted this last night...but sign Kapernicke..........  
GiantBlue : 9/17/2018 11:53 am : link
He can run around and maybe be successful behind this mess of an offensive line...buy some time...throw on the run....

and if you don't happen to like Kapernicke, you can watch him try to play behind this OL and take the beating Eli takes.
If the OL  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2018 11:54 am : link
continues like this, Eli may retire at half time of the next game.
not soon enough.  
TeamSchlitz1 : 9/17/2018 11:56 am : link
.
KL is the developmental QB on the roster.  
Keith : 9/17/2018 11:56 am : link
The other guy is the spot starter. If we get to the point where the season is lost, you play the developmental guy to see what you have so you can draft accordingly. Just like last year....oh wait.
Lauletta would be killed with this OL...  
BillKo : 9/17/2018 11:57 am : link
..and Tanney just isn't better than Eli.

I don't think Eli sits this year unless he gets hurt to be quite honest.

If the record is bad, but the OL seems to come around then maybe...but I don't really see it even then.

We've gotta wait to see how the entire 2018 season goes.
The QB and OL...  
silverfox : 9/17/2018 11:58 am : link
...are completely incompatible. Eli's the last QB that should be behind that OL.
The plan was to begin to mold the team  
Diver_Down : 9/17/2018 11:59 am : link
in DGs philosophy. The OL is at least a 2 year rebuild. Looking at Omameh's contract, there isn't a large allocation of resources in the future. Omameh might be part of the future, but he was a building block in the short term. Flowers will be replaced next year either via the draft or FA. Depending on the progress of Halapio/Greco will determine whether a center is drafted to develop/start or whether a FA is brought in to start.

In the meantime, DG saw competent QB play in the Eagles game and this past offseason was used to bolster his team building philosophy. With an improving OL over the course of the season and an actual running game, Eli will be evaluated at the end of the season. If the evaluation supports the idea that Eli has years left and the evaluation isn't compromised by mitigating factors such as entire WR corp injured like last season or a raging dumpster fire of an OL where Eli is running for his life, then Eli will either finish out his contract or even an extension.

Dumpster fires like last night will have no bearing on Eli's evaluation. DG is smarter than that. So for those that are in the camp of finding Eli's replacement, you should be rooting for all the surrounding components to do their job so that if a decline is evident in Eli's skillset, it is evidently clear with no excuses what needs to be done this offseason to transition from Eli. But be careful, because if everyone is doing their job (no excuses) and Eli demonstrates his competency, it very well might lead to an extension.
Shurmur & DG should talk to Eli at his locker  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2018 12:01 pm : link
later tomorrow, and simply ask his permission if its okay to start him in games until they think they want a change and then pull him.

That way Eli is not embarrassed...
as much of a bafoon McAdoo was as a coach  
Giants86 : 9/17/2018 12:04 pm : link
He wasn't totally off base concerning Eli, Webb etc.
He was very high on Mahomes also.
Not going to happen this year  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 12:06 pm : link
The Giants have nobody to put out there. Alex Tanney is, well, Alex Tanney, and Lauletta is way too green.

Barring an injury to Eli, he's there this year, for the duration.
Well, they can always sign Webb  
Tom from LI : 9/17/2018 12:07 pm : link
off the Jet's practice squad and then when he becomes the greatest QB ever to play the game the Jet's announcers during the pre season games can say how they had him and we plucked him off their practice squad.

[/sarcasm]
I think you've gotta give it  
Bill in UT : 9/17/2018 12:09 pm : link
half a season, anyway, to see if the OL can start to gel as a unit. If this lasts past midseason, put Lauletta in.
Eli is going to be beaten to a pulp  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/17/2018 12:09 pm : link
this year. Going to be terrible watching him get hit all the time. He'll tough it out too.
OL  
Giants : 9/17/2018 12:14 pm : link
is terrible. anyone think Barkley is slow because he was getting hit on every play before getting out of the backfield. Think about that when you say Eli can not move
Eli and his pop Archie can certainly take a beating.  
GiantsUA : 9/17/2018 12:15 pm : link
.
RE: Re-sign Davis Webb  
Mr. Bungle : 9/17/2018 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14081068 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
off the Jets practice squad? At least he knows the offensive system.

Um, no. I can't imagine how "amped up" Webb would be to start an actual game that counts.
Not this year  
Matt in SGS : 9/17/2018 12:19 pm : link
Eli has the job unless he gets hurt. There is literally no point to bench him for Tanney. That's a rehash of the Geno Smith strategy and I'm sure Shurmur would love to ask McAdoo when he's serving him a Big Mac how that worked out.

So we are back to Lauletta in the place of Davis Webb. Lauletta was a developmental pick. Unless he shows a ton in practice and understanding in the film room, I don't think he's seeing the field this year. He was given plenty of reps in the Patriots pre-season finale and we saw some good and lots bad.

At the end of the day, Mara made clear the moment he will consider switching off Eli, if/when the Giants are eliminated from post season contention. It's week 2. We are a very very long way from the Giants benching Eli and I'd be shocked if it happens this year unless we see an 0-7 or 0-8 thing.
RE: RE: Re-sign Davis Webb  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14081157 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 14081068 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


off the Jets practice squad? At least he knows the offensive system.


Um, no. I can't imagine how "amped up" Webb would be to start an actual game that counts.


Could it be any fucking worse than Tanney?
RE: Shurmur & DG should talk to Eli at his locker  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 9/17/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14081104 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
later tomorrow, and simply ask his permission if its okay to start him in games until they think they want a change and then pull him.

That way Eli is not embarrassed...


Pretty sure that’s sarcasm. But didn’t MacAdoo try that last year?
Eli Needs To Suck It Up  
Rong5611 : 9/17/2018 12:25 pm : link
He is going to need to deal with Lauletta playing in garbage time late in the year if the horrendous play (by the entire team, not just Eli) continues.

Barring a dramatic turnaround -- We are going nowhere. If we are way out of contention, we need to see what we have in Lauletta. Eli needs to accept that...

Eli  
lax counsel : 9/17/2018 12:26 pm : link
Is not getting benched, the backlash from the fan base last year is exactly why the giants are in their current state, which is to say no present and a very bleak long term outlook. Sad to say, but Mcadoo was right.
I think,  
Doomster : 9/17/2018 12:35 pm : link
we already know what we have in Lauletta.....and of course, he is much better than those other 5 we passed on...
I still don't think Eli is washed.  
NyquistX3 : 9/17/2018 12:39 pm : link
He certainly has declined in terms of pocket awareness and seems spooked by the trash protection, but his arm strength still seems there. I've felt all year that if he gets time to let plays develop you can win with him and I hold the same opinion now.
RE: I tweeted this last night...but sign Kapernicke..........  
Toth029 : 9/17/2018 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14081078 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
He can run around and maybe be successful behind this mess of an offensive line...buy some time...throw on the run....

and if you don't happen to like Kapernicke, you can watch him try to play behind this OL and take the beating Eli takes.

He can't run an NFL offense. You want him making protection calls and making hot reads?
i wanted to draft a QB  
UESBLUE : 9/17/2018 12:42 pm : link
but 2 losses seems a bit soon for this convo
I expected to see Eli retire  
5BowlsSoon : 9/17/2018 12:44 pm : link
At halftime.
do you think  
Les in TO : 9/17/2018 12:44 pm : link
Shurmur is going to sit Eli after the debacle last year? do you think Mara is going to say anything to Gettleman about seeing Lauletta or Tanney?

No, Eli is going to be trotted out there until the bitter end.
I think Eli can still play,  
Doomster : 9/17/2018 12:45 pm : link
but not behind the kind of OL we have....
As I said last December  
Jim in NH : 9/17/2018 12:46 pm : link
Eli Manning has become a major liability, and the panicked moves by ownership made a bad situation worse.

If I recall correctly, I predicted he would sit out the second half of game five down by 2TD and with an 0-4 record, and that he would not return.

Now, we get to find out.
Short of an injury to Eli  
Mike from Ohio : 9/17/2018 12:52 pm : link
he will start and play until the Giants are mathematically eliminated, and likely past that. Maybe not the final week of the season.

Putting Tanney in makes no sense because by no objective measure does he give you a better chance at winning than Eli does. Putting in Lauletta will appear they are throwing the rest of the seaons which this organization will not do. They will put out whichever QB gives them the best chance to win that week's game, and that is currently Eli.
RE: McAdoo was right??  
Tuckrule : 9/17/2018 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14081026 BBelle21 said:
Quote:
That’s an embarassing thing to say. McAdoo was and is a complete clown.


The guy was 100 percent correct. Eli is done and mcadoo said so. He can’t move and he’s she’ll shocked. Loook around the league. QBs extend plays they don’t just collapse. Yes the line sucks but even when he had time he quickly checked the ball down. 14 for 90 for saquon and the majority were not designed for him.
OL Zero,  
Simms : 9/17/2018 1:33 pm : link
I think Eli will keep playing until the season is over then we will start to see him sit.
RE: once we hit 7 losses  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 1:45 pm : link
In comment 14081021 jlukes said:
Quote:
Eli needs to go to the bench.

That can be week 10 or Week 7, but 7 losses is my number
Old man Gettleman will allow Eli to play the whole season barring injury. We don’t have a better option on the Bench. I said I couldn’t see this team winning more than 6 games this season and people laughed. It looks like we will be in the top 5 again this year and the one constant in our losing has been Eli. We should have pulled the plug on him last year. Gettleman said I’m “going to look at the tape before making a decision on Eli” well I guess he meant only the Eagles game becaus that was his best game in like 3 years.All the sports shows today talking about the Giants OL but also saying OL is part of the problem but Eli has looked shot for a long time now. “ The Giants have upgraded in many areas and you still can’t score points I think Eli has also looked shot as an NFL QB”
RE: RE: ..  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14081020 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14081013 Keith said:


Quote:


If we are 0-6 or 1-7, I think it happens.



...if they bench him, what happens?
Maybe he gets emotional and the coaching staff gets fired and the get rid of anyone who doesn’t support his poor play. Wait this already happened!
RE: i wanted to draft a QB  
Josh in the City : 9/17/2018 1:53 pm : link
In comment 14081244 UESBLUE said:
Quote:
but 2 losses seems a bit soon for this convo

Last season wasn't too soon so after 2 more embarrassing losses this season sure as hell ain't too soon.
RE: McAdoo was right??  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 1:55 pm : link
In comment 14081026 BBelle21 said:
Quote:
That’s an embarassing thing to say. McAdoo was and is a complete clown.
McAdoo and Reese wanted to draft Pat MaHomes prior to that they wanted to draft Desean Watson. Looking at these 2 QB’s they are everything Eli isn’t in the sense they are accurate, and athletic QB’s. Eli hasn’t played well over the last couple of season and it’s time to move on. I don’t see how they could sell “win now” with a shot QB like Eli and this OL.
Agree with Matt  
JonC : 9/17/2018 1:58 pm : link
They swapped out the coaching staff and hit the reset button to keep Eli in place as starter.

Quite frankly, if the team doesn't improve with Eli at the helm, I'd be looking to pull the plug once they're out of the playoff hunt.

At that point, it's about the high draft picks again. They're going to need every one of them to rebuild the foundation, as well as improvement (and less desperate spending) via UFA.
RE: They can’t touch Eli  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14081046 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Neither Gettleman or Shurmur would have got the job if they questioned his ability
That was the problem management saw what Shurmur did with a journeyman QB like Keenum and said well Eli isn’t that good maybe he can “fix” him. That’s why Shurmur was the 3rd choice. I bet that the other candidates turned the Giants down because they didn’t want to inherit Eli.
There is NFW Eli sits...  
bw in dc : 9/17/2018 2:04 pm : link
unless he gets injured.

Mara created this mess because of what he did last year approving Eli's benching.

The last thing Mara wants is another media and fan revolt for his golden child Eli.

If this year really goes sideways, we most certainly need to see Lauletta. But I just can't see Mara allowing that. He made his bed for Eli.
RE: Shurmur & DG should talk to Eli at his locker  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14081104 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
later tomorrow, and simply ask his permission if its okay to start him in games until they think they want a change and then pull him.

That way Eli is not embarrassed...
Then you can give him a token start at the end of the year to close out the Eli Manning era.
If Giants go 0-4, Eli will get benched  
Vanzetti : 9/17/2018 2:09 pm : link
and Lauletta will not get killed behind this OL because the DL will have to stay in their lanes because of his scrambling ability.

No doubt he will make some bad decisions and turn the ball over. Like most rookies.

But Eli used his get out of jail card last year. It won't happen again.
RE: I tweeted this last night...but sign Kapernicke..........  
Fishmanjim57 : 9/17/2018 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14081078 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
He can run around and maybe be successful behind this mess of an offensive line...buy some time...throw on the run....

and if you don't happen to like Kapernicke, you can watch him try to play behind this OL and take the beating Eli takes.


I am 100% in favor of signing Kap! Do it NOW!
The reaction to Eli's being benched  
JohnF : 9/17/2018 6:03 pm : link
was more a reflection of how McAdoo fumbled it, and the fact that Geno Smith was put in instead of Webb. Honestly, what was the point? Who at that point thought Smith was the future of this franchise?

If the team goes 0-6/1-5, I think Shurmur will talk with Eli about sitting him in the second half if the team is being blown out (down by three scores or more). There's no reason to put Eli's health at risk, and it would be a good situation for Lauletta. He won't have the pressure of starting, and the FO can see how he develops.
RE: I'm not saying that McAdoo  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2018 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14081039 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
wasn't and still isn't an assclown.
He totally is. He handled the entire situation completely wrong.
BUT - it still doesn't change the fact that he was right about Eli and Webb.
What about Eli's game tells you he was wrong?
What about Webb makes you think he can play?


What about Geno Smith convinced McAdoo that he was the best option to start?

McAdoo was far from right on most everything he did during his tenure in NY.
RE: as much of a bafoon McAdoo was as a coach  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2018 6:19 pm : link
In comment 14081115 Giants86 said:
Quote:
He wasn't totally off base concerning Eli, Webb etc.
He was very high on Mahomes also.


A lot of teams were high on Mahomes. Why this continually being used as some sort of excuse for him?
RE: The reaction to Eli's being benched  
ron mexico : 9/17/2018 6:24 pm : link
In comment 14082067 JohnF said:
Quote:
was more a reflection of how McAdoo fumbled it, and the fact that Geno Smith was put in instead of Webb. Honestly, what was the point? Who at that point thought Smith was the future of this franchise?

If the team goes 0-6/1-5, I think Shurmur will talk with Eli about sitting him in the second half if the team is being blown out (down by three scores or more). There's no reason to put Eli's health at risk, and it would be a good situation for Lauletta. He won't have the pressure of starting, and the FO can see how he develops.


That won't work. To do that you have to give KL a significant number of practice snaps and that won't happen as long as he is not the starter.
eli's benching  
giantfan2000 : 9/17/2018 7:07 pm : link
Eli was NOT BENCHED by McAdoo .. ELI BENCHED HIMSELF.

McAdoo said the following

Pat Mahomes was gonna be a stud
Eli deserved to be benched
Nate Solder is not good

so far he isn't wrong


Keith:  
mrvax : 9/17/2018 7:28 pm : link
In comment 14081013 Keith said:
Quote:
1. I don't think the Giants expected to be this bad. If so, maybe they would have made a different decision regarding Webb, but I think they already know that he's a lost cause. Webb was so far from an NFL QB.

2. I think the Giants are in too deep and will continue with Eli for a few more weeks at least. If we are 0-6 or 1-7, I think it happens.


What happens? If they sit Eli and the Oline blows, I'd still like to see Lauletta back there instead of a journeyman. Maybe the Giants would explore other options like a trade for Slotter?
This is part of why I would not have cut Webb.  
Matt M. : 9/17/2018 11:13 pm : link
I'd much rather have had Webb and Lauletta truly competing all summer and throughout the season. Having Tanney is no different than Geno Smith last year. He is not even close to a better option than Eli and he isn't even markedly better than Webb or Lauletta. He doesn't really give them a chance to win now and isn't in their long term plans. So, why did they bother with him?
Teams don’t just bench the starting vet qb  
djm : 9/17/2018 11:27 pm : link
They just don’t. Not even down the stretch of a lost season. Like, hardly ever. They only bench a qb if they don’t want that qb playing anymore. It’s not as simple as seeing what the kid can do. The kid is a mess right now first of all second teams just don’t go benching their vet qb unless they want to move on.

Last year into this one was/is bizarro world. That shit rarely if ever happens. You never ever ever see a vet qb benched one season only to be brought back as the clear starter the next. Fucking clown show here. They should put a big tent around MetLife because it’s a circus.
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