Naturally a whole lot of people are in "sky is falling" mode as always.
But now that I see posts aimed at the GM after two games, I feel it's necessary to point out that that this level of disappointment is a result of unrealistic expectations.
Management said they're not rebuilding because they have a business to run. It's up to you to see the forest for the trees. You don't undo a half decade of mistakes just by changing the names in the offices and banking on the "any team has a chance" carrot on a stick. It takes a process.
A lot of things have to go wrong to be 3-13. Pretending a terrible team with a new system on both sides of the ball, a brand new offensive line, a 37 year-old QB and 50% turn-over was going to walk into the year and win was never logical.
I did expect some improvement over last season. Did you think what you've seen thus far represents an improvement over last season?
Things turn around quickly in this league as you see every year..
We should have a better idea/ read after 8-10 games, imo. We shall see one way or the other. I just refuse to be DEFINITIVE at this ridiculously early juncture. If at the end of the year, I am proven way off, you know I will own it on here
I did expect some improvement over last season. Did you think what you've seen thus far represents an improvement over last season?
No, last night was brutal. Same old song.
and I have a feeling it's going to get worse.
I agree it's a multi year rebuild, but that being the case we should have done a Buffalo: moved on as many high paid players as we could for picks, picked a QB and then slowly build up from there. We could have let Eli play this year, introduced the new QB next year, gave him a year to settle and sat with a clear cap and 2 years of cheap QB to make a run.
They won't be for long. If they lost their OC and CB last night for any length of time it could be worse going forward.
And then you know more injuries are going to happen.
I agree it's a multi year rebuild, but that being the case we should have done a Buffalo: moved on as many high paid players as we could for picks, picked a QB and then slowly build up from there. We could have let Eli play this year, introduced the new QB next year, gave him a year to settle and sat with a clear cap and 2 years of cheap QB to make a run.
Amazing how people are arguing against this logic. Gettleman does not deserve a second opportunity to say "just kidding" we were really blowing it up. This is Isaiah Thomas/Phil Jackson bad.
Barkley meant instant improvement to the running game, allowing Eli time to go play action and throw the ball downfield.
It's no use talking Eli or Barkley or Flowers. The whole team is a train wreck. The transition of power from Coughlin and Reese just failed. They're a worse team now.
Sure, they'll play better this season and win some games. But there's just so much broken that has to be fixed. This year I'm sure they'll be looking new QB, but after five years as the top priority the offensive line is worse than they were five years ago.
No pressure on Dak at all.
This is payback (smile) for the two fairytale seasons we had.
They won't be for long. If they lost their OC and CB last night for any length of time it could be worse going forward.
And then you know more injuries are going to happen.
Healthy is one thing. Acclimating to an entirely new regime is another. Parcells has said it takes at least 4 games to know what you REALLY have.
We moved around a lot of parts. The bottom of the roster was churned, but that's mostly depth and backups. We traded for Ogletree. We signed Solder, Omameh and Stewart. We drafted guys. We changed the coaching staff.
Have you see any signs that the new management have succeeded in increasing the team's talent? In two games thus far, the only thing I could consider a bright spot is Barkley, and you'd have to be pretty bad to draft a guy 2nd overall and not see some talent from him.
If they can reasonably expect 2 good season left and you're already conceding 2018, that leaves you with going for it in 2019 at the expense of rebuilding for the future.
It's a horrendous mindset. They chose to do it this way so they absolutely need to be judged for 2018. And it actually looks like it's WORSE!
This. I wasn't expecting a juggernaut but the offense just seems to be as bad as last year despite adding a LT, Barkley, and a healthy Beckham.
This was the offseason to start a completely new project. Some posters say full rebuilds don't happen anymore in the NFL, but why couldn't it have happened this offseason for the Giants? Why couldn't they have hired a GM with no historical ties to the team? Why couldn't they have drafted a QB?
Even in the best case scenario, this plays out with the Giants having a stronger roster in a year or two but with major QB questions.
This approach never made any sense. It doesn't line up.
and I have a feeling it's going to get worse.
Exactly. The OL looks to have regressed.
I don't want All Pros across the board, but I want to see progress.........we can't run the ball or pass pro right now to save our lives (well, Eli's life).
Quote:
is for the most part, outside of Olivier Vernon the Giants were mostly healthy the first two games.
They won't be for long. If they lost their OC and CB last night for any length of time it could be worse going forward.
And then you know more injuries are going to happen.
Healthy is one thing. Acclimating to an entirely new regime is another. Parcells has said it takes at least 4 games to know what you REALLY have.
I'm just saying that it's unlikely the team is at full strength all season. They may have lost their starting C and one starting CB for an unknown amount of time.
So even if some acclimation to the system happens, the injuries possibly negate it and the season will slip away.
I felt like last night was a must win, even if you didn't, next Sunday in Houston definitely is or the season will be over in September.
Big Blue '56 : 12:04 pm : link : reply
I still believe we will compete in our division and NFC before the smoke clears, despite flaws and some weaknesses. Haven’t seen too many, if any, dominant teams, but it is far too early to know at this point.
After what you have seen in the first two games? Halapio is injured......and you are going to see more of the OL injured, and then those backups are going to play....
Can you honestly say, you see improvement in this team, even with all the weapons?
As previously mentioned, outside of OV, this team is healthy, and this is what we have to show for it? There will be injuries and then those replacements will be playing....it's not going to be pretty....
This off season is going to be a beaut!
This was the offseason to start a completely new project. Some posters say full rebuilds don't happen anymore in the NFL, but why couldn't it have happened this offseason for the Giants? Why couldn't they have hired a GM with no historical ties to the team? Why couldn't they have drafted a QB?
Even in the best case scenario, this plays out with the Giants having a stronger roster in a year or two but with major QB questions.
This approach never made any sense. It doesn't line up.
Don't we have an asst GM actually being groomed for the job?
And doesn't DG bring a new attitude of winning in the trenches with big people (ok, it's not happening yet)......but I think that's the direction.
That teams don't really formally rebuild anymore.
And that all we need is some avg olineman and we can have a very productive offense.
Which is it?
Quote:
But if that's the case, why the hell is Gettleman the GM? Why is Eli the QB? They're both at the end of their careers.
This was the offseason to start a completely new project. Some posters say full rebuilds don't happen anymore in the NFL, but why couldn't it have happened this offseason for the Giants? Why couldn't they have hired a GM with no historical ties to the team? Why couldn't they have drafted a QB?
Even in the best case scenario, this plays out with the Giants having a stronger roster in a year or two but with major QB questions.
This approach never made any sense. It doesn't line up.
Don't we have an asst GM actually being groomed for the job?
And doesn't DG bring a new attitude of winning in the trenches with big people (ok, it's not happening yet)......but I think that's the direction.
What has Abrams done to earn the GM job? He's been here for this horrific era, too.
This isn't a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water. Coming into this season this team had been nothing but bath water.
The Giants needed a set of fresh eyes in the worst way, and they opted instead to just bring back a guy they passed over for promotion to that spot in the first place.
Quote:
We shouldn't still be this bad. It's really alarming.
This. I wasn't expecting a juggernaut but the offense just seems to be as bad as last year despite adding a LT, Barkley, and a healthy Beckham.
+1, If anything the O-line looked worse than last year I at least expected SOME improvement.
This was the offseason to start a completely new project. Some posters say full rebuilds don't happen anymore in the NFL, but why couldn't it have happened this offseason for the Giants? Why couldn't they have hired a GM with no historical ties to the team? Why couldn't they have drafted a QB?
Even in the best case scenario, this plays out with the Giants having a stronger roster in a year or two but with major QB questions.
This approach never made any sense. It doesn't line up.
This is what I don't understand.
Have you see any signs that the new management have succeeded in increasing the team's talent? In two games thus far, the only thing I could consider a bright spot is Barkley, and you'd have to be pretty bad to draft a guy 2nd overall and not see some talent from him.
. "
+1
it's early yet, but very disappointing results so far.
regarding Eli: word from some of the insiders is that they couldn't come to an agreement on one of draft QBs. you don't take a player at #2 if you're not solid on him.
We were hoping (again, wishful thinking) that Shurmur was better than his showing in Cleveland, but his staff sure as hell looked outmatched last night.
That teams don't really formally rebuild anymore.
And that all we need is some avg olineman and we can have a very productive offense.
Which is it?
Theyre Confused...
Last night... The only different I saw with the offense from this year to last... Was the amount of screen passes to the RB.
Other than that. I seriously couldn't tell a difference. That sucks and it's definitely alarming.
Here's to hoping that Shurmur makes the correct adjustments and we see an improvement in the OL play and a less skiddish QB.
When Eli finally hit Lattimer with the big pass, you just knew someone was going to get a penalty to push them back again. Thank you, Rhett. Throughout the broadcast, Carl Banks mentioned how he couldn’t believe the tight ends inability to block.
After Ellison’s penalty pushed them out of the red zone, I had this image of Shurmur and Eli trying to lead kindergarteners on leashes across traffic with Odell watching, exasperated
OL - hell no
TEs - somehow look WORSE trying to block
QB - same ol Eli - how many inaccurate overthrows have we seen in 2 games?
WR - OBJ being present is something I suppose
Pass Rush - Nope
LB - Barwin and Martin, good god...
DB - Collins has been invisible. FS is a joke. I guess Apple has played well. Zero depth.
Special Teams - Clay, seriously? Gotta inject that Panther blood, huh Gettleman?
Play Calling - Pretty sure McAdoo somehow still has input on this after watching last night...
Last night... The only different I saw with the offense from this year to last... Was the amount of screen passes to the RB.
Other than that. I seriously couldn't tell a difference. That sucks and it's definitely alarming.
Here's to hoping that Shurmur makes the correct adjustments and we see an improvement in the OL play and a less skiddish QB.
Those were not screen passes, they were checkdowns with no blocking in front. This O-line is incapable of running a screen play (successfully)!
Bad angles on tackles, no pass rush, etc. Just did not think it would this bad to start.
Eli missed a few passes he should have made IMHO as he was also beaten like a drum.
No Giants pride showing ....
Quote:
rapidly declining QB who'll be 38 and in the final year of contract next year.
I agree it's a multi year rebuild, but that being the case we should have done a Buffalo: moved on as many high paid players as we could for picks, picked a QB and then slowly build up from there. We could have let Eli play this year, introduced the new QB next year, gave him a year to settle and sat with a clear cap and 2 years of cheap QB to make a run.
Amazing how people are arguing against this logic. Gettleman does not deserve a second opportunity to say "just kidding" we were really blowing it up. This is Isaiah Thomas/Phil Jackson bad.
Agreed with both of you. The logic of the organization and the fan base is mind boggling. You went all in on a 37 year old qb and drafted a position of luxury with an average useful life of 5 years with the second pick. No we are being told it’s a multi ear rebuild? Well then why the hell did the Giants do those two things? By the time the rebuild is down Eli will be long gone and Barkley will be declining. So why again didn’t they just start over with a new qb and build from the inside out?
I was expecting something like we saw week 1: an organized group that resembled an NFL football team. As Shurmur likes to say: "Make it look like football."
I certainly did not think we were going to put on unwatchable product on the field. Last night was surreal - from the opening bell the Giants looked exactly like they did under McAdoo. Even the playcalling. Never saw that coming.
That's not easy.
He gave Odell a huge contract
And so far his offense has been no better then Mac's--and Mac had no Odell for most of the year.
So, if that is not alarming, I don't know what is
I was expecting something like we saw week 1: an organized group that resembled an NFL football team. As Shurmur likes to say: "Make it look like football."
I certainly did not think we were going to put on unwatchable product on the field. Last night was surreal - from the opening bell the Giants looked exactly like they did under McAdoo. Even the playcalling. Never saw that coming.
It was never going to be a smooth incline of getting better every week. The other team is paid to scout the Giants and develop a plan to beat them. And that's exactly what they did. They physically overwhelmed an OL that was always a work in progress. There's nothing shocking about that. The weaknesses from last season are the same weaknesses now. We have parts to a brilliant offense and no OL to depend on. So teams are scheming the same way. Stop the run and Throw the kitchen sink at the OL and you'll beat them every time until we get better players.
...and spent a bunch of money to bolster the OL as well as an early 2nd round draft pick.
If anything, they looked worse than last year, and not by a small margin.
No, they paid Omameh a pretty good sum. They also made the decision to move on from Jones to Halapio. Changes were made - and they look every bit as bad, if not worse than last year, despite the fact that they have two more weapons (counting OBJ) over most of last season.