Many of you put the blame on Eli. I don't. I just don't see that. I know you want a younger, mobile QB. I get that. But please be specific, especially you guys who really know the game inside the x's and o's. Why is this Eli's fault? Is he failing to make the right reads, the right throws, the right audible calls, his arm sucks, his understanding of defenses? Is he just scared of rush and therefore panics and makes bad plays.
Help us understand. Maybe we just can't see it through the TV screen.
Thanks
He likes Eli! - ( New Window )
Teh 18 pressures and 6 sacks is all his fault!
BTW, the Cowboys defense is not average anymore, they are pretty darn good, maybe a top five in the NFL now.
I would rate him highly in quick release, bottom half league in all others.
Teh 18 pressures and 6 sacks is all his fault!
No one here "hates" Eli and absolutely no one has said that it was all his fault "coach".
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Eli Haters site.
Teh 18 pressures and 6 sacks is all his fault!
No one here "hates" Eli and absolutely no one has said that it was all his fault "coach".
As I said on another thread, I'm about as close to an Eli supporter as Britt. But I realize based on the product I see on the field today that it's time to move on. This line is not going to afford Eli the time and protection he needs to succeed in the league any longer. It's sad and tough for me to acknowledge, but it's the cold hard truth. Nothing more really needs to be said on the subject.
Teh 18 pressures and 6 sacks is all his fault!
I said in the off season, I hoped that someone would trade for him and put him behind an OL that was at least average, so that he can show what he is still capable of doing....the powers that be have put him behind a line that doesn't allow him to do that....
You can have all the weapons in the world, but if you are rushed so much, to the point where you think there is pressure and there isn't, what kind of qb will you be? What we saw last night, a qb that was dumping passes, and had three completions, but no first down....all those weapons did not make a difference.....
If you have to get rid of the ball quickly, and DB's know this, it is easy for them to stick to a receiver for four or five seconds, without really covering them(just being stride for stride with them), and Eli does not see them open, and the clock in his head rings, and he dumps off another pass...If Barkley did not make the first guy miss, a lot of those passes would have gone for no gain....
As I said on another thread, I'm about as close to an Eli supporter as Britt. But I realize based on the product I see on the field today that it's time to move on. This line is not going to afford Eli the time and protection he needs to succeed in the league any longer. It's sad and tough for me to acknowledge, but it's the cold hard truth. Nothing more really needs to be said on the subject.
I don't think it needs to be stellar. Average would be nice. Even passable might be okay.
My gut tells me that vintage Eli sees those plays developing and pulls the trigger.
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In comment 14081321 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
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Eli Haters site.
Teh 18 pressures and 6 sacks is all his fault!
No one here "hates" Eli and absolutely no one has said that it was all his fault "coach".
You aren't reading much of this site today.
Actually I've read a great deal of the threads today, but I'm guessing we have different interpretations.
Pointing out that Eli hasn't been playing well, that he's part of the problem or even that he's "done" as a productive QB does NOT = "HATE" in my book.
And I doubt there is a single poster who thinks the OL isn't a big part of the problem...in other words, it's not "ALL" Eli's fault.
What about the fade to Beckham later on in the quarter? Eli throws a duck out of bounds forcing Beckham to the sideline, and it falls incomplete...An accurate pass there and it's a big gainer for the Giants..This was all in the 1st quarter......What about that pass again to Saquon in the flat, again NO PRESSURE, and Eli throws the thing 2 yards short at Saquons feet and the ball bounces on the turf......What about Eli's run backwards for a 10 yard sack? He literally runs BACKWARDS.....
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Eli Haters site.
Teh 18 pressures and 6 sacks is all his fault!
Nobody is hating on Eli just saying if you need 5 pro bowl lineman your QB is probably not very good anymore. Also Eli has to call the pass protection and that has to do with reading the defense. Your eyes can tell you that the O-line isn’t very good and neither is Eli missing people who are wide open. Maybe he has PTSD from playing behind a bad OL like they suggested and he’s bailing before reading the field.
And this right here is the problem. There's a vast difference between Eli needing even a functional OL and needing 5 Pro Bowlers. The hyperbole is insane. The truth is that we haven't had even an average line in years.
What about the fade to Beckham later on in the quarter? Eli throws a duck out of bounds forcing Beckham to the sideline, and it falls incomplete...An accurate pass there and it's a big gainer for the Giants..This was all in the 1st quarter......What about that pass again to Saquon in the flat, again NO PRESSURE, and Eli throws the thing 2 yards short at Saquons feet and the ball bounces on the turf......What about Eli's run backwards for a 10 yard sack? He literally runs BACKWARDS.....
Eli is completed a lot of passes that are technically don't reduce his completion percentage and make you think he is more accurate because it's completed but are so off that he kills any YAC. I don't care what his completion percentage is. My eyes tell me he is having accuracy issues
What about the fade to Beckham later on in the quarter? Eli throws a duck out of bounds forcing Beckham to the sideline, and it falls incomplete...An accurate pass there and it's a big gainer for the Giants..This was all in the 1st quarter......What about that pass again to Saquon in the flat, again NO PRESSURE, and Eli throws the thing 2 yards short at Saquons feet and the ball bounces on the turf......What about Eli's run backwards for a 10 yard sack? He literally runs BACKWARDS.....
Perfect example of this was the throw to OBJ on the rollout. Eli has all day to roll and set his feet to make an accurate throw but instead OBJ has to make a great catch leaning back and to the left. Destroyed any YAC
Some people here did not live through the cheers for a successful quick kick on third down, or when we had people giving a punter a standing ovation.
I think Eli is just about done, and we should have drafted a QB, or traded down for more picks, But I am the owner of the team, nor a professional player but knows enough to see an OL confused, spun around, and a limited push off the ball.
Not many QB would have been successful with the current state of this team.
It's a shame we wasted a good portion of Eli's career.
Giving away two shots at additional superbowl titles.
Over the years I root for my team, and will howl at the moon too. But dumping on Eli when such a large percentage of this is not his own doing is messed up.
BBI has become a haven for troll Jet fans.
I would agree with this, and I think Manning is part of the problem. I would also argue, though, that the return in investment of resources has been poor. After not even attempting to draft OL for years when it was clear we needed help, we finally drafted OL high and none of them were standout players. Pugh was probably the best and he was average at absolute best. Richburg may have had the best single season of any of our draftees, but the rest of his seasons were lackluster to poor.
So yes, Eli has to take some responsibility, but simply because the team has invested in the OL doesn't mean those moves have actually had a net positive effect on the performance of the group. This year, Solder has been underwhelming. The jury is out on our 2nd round pick, obviously, but he is definitely not as NFL ready as many seemed to think he would be. Omameh doesn't seem to be an improvement over what we trotted out at RG last year. Our C just got injured for the rest of the year and Greco has been a journeyman his entire career prior, and Flowers continues to be a shitty player no matter where he was drafted, but especially for someone we used the 9th pick on.
We have to take off the rose colored glasses. As a poster said on another thread...if this was another team what would you say about the QB play...I think most would say it sucks
We've been saying for years now, give him a line that can block. Just because they have consistently failed to do so doesn't mean you get to shift the responsibility for the team's failures to the quarterback.
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In comment 14081321 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
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Eli Haters site.
Teh 18 pressures and 6 sacks is all his fault!
Nobody is hating on Eli just saying if you need 5 pro bowl lineman your QB is probably not very good anymore. Also Eli has to call the pass protection and that has to do with reading the defense. Your eyes can tell you that the O-line isn’t very good and neither is Eli missing people who are wide open. Maybe he has PTSD from playing behind a bad OL like they suggested and he’s bailing before reading the field.
And this right here is the problem. There's a vast difference between Eli needing even a functional OL and needing 5 Pro Bowlers. The hyperbole is insane. The truth is that we haven't had even an average line in years.
Oh so you think an AVERAGE OL is going to stop Ngakoue last week? You think an AVERAGE OL is going to stop Demarcus Lawrence?
You know next week the Giants will face JJ Watt, Jadeveon Clowney, and Whitney Mercilus, right? In a couple of weeks we have Fletcher Cox, Derek Barnett, Michael Bennett, and Brandon Graham. And we get to face those guys twice. We have Khalil Mack, Eddie Goldman, and Akiem Hicks on the schedule. Average doesn't pass in today's NFL. These players are going to make good NFL OL look bad.
That's why you need a guy who is going to be able to escape pressure. Eli can't do that job anymore.
There's a good chance the Giants are going to be 0-7 by the time they play the Redskins in week 8.
That's just how it is. The line could be better, yes. There are guys missing blocks, yes. But there are guys simply losing 1 on 1 battles, too, AND THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. No matter who you have on that line, it IS going to happen. Again, leaky O-lines and QBs under duress is not a unique situation to the NY Giants. What is unique to the Giants is the complete inability to hit big plays in the face of such pressure.
We've been saying for years now, give him a line that can block. Just because they have consistently failed to do so doesn't mean you get to shift the responsibility for the team's failures to the quarterback.
Mobility has never been his strong suit but it's also NEVER been as big as a liability as it has been for the last 3 or 4 years, and it's getting worse. He is less mobile now than he was 5 years ago. That's understandable, he's 37, not 27.
The Oline sucks but how how is Tennessee able to win yesterday with two backup Tackles playing and a backup QB? We are not the only team with a shitty line.
There is literally no way to know -- and that's the tough reality management is faced with.
But another seemingly stark reality is this team is not going to improve magically to a place where they'll know in the time Manning has left in his career.
And that should have made the decision to move on quite easy.
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that hasn't been the case since we drafted him. He's always been a less-than-mobile pocket passer.
We've been saying for years now, give him a line that can block. Just because they have consistently failed to do so doesn't mean you get to shift the responsibility for the team's failures to the quarterback.
Mobility has never been his strong suit but it's also NEVER been as big as a liability as it has been for the last 3 or 4 years, and it's getting worse. He is less mobile now than he was 5 years ago. That's understandable, he's 37, not 27.
I agree with this, but let's be real - Eli could be as mobile as Michael Vick, and it would still be a problem having a line as terrible as ours blocking for him.
On a scale of 1-10, Eli's mobility, at its peak, may have been a 5. Now, maybe it's a 3.5 to 4. If he had a line that could reliably block for him, we'd hardly notice the difference. But because they can't do that, not only do we notice, we have a bad intuition that this is really Eli's fault.
Eli used to be a great QB - study history of some great QBs and what happened -
YA Title
Joe Namath
Johnny U
Joe Montana
Brett Favre
All remembered as a great quarterbacks but all
tough endings
It’s OK to still be a fan and a root for him but to know he is nowhere near as good as it used to be. The offense of line is a huge problem but Eli is shellshocked and completely immobile. He will soon be on the ring of honor and will make a run for Canton but it is time for us to move on in the next year
I'm not sure what "simple math" is telling you that. Through two games, Eli is completing 69% of his passes. Given how many of them have been check-downs, I don't think we can reasonably say anything about his ability to be consistently accurate. To be later determined.
It's funny, if Eli were a young QB last night, we'd probably praise him for just taking the sacks and not throwing the ball up for grabs.
Eli is NOT helping anymore. When you aren’t the solution you’re the problem. Eli might not be the biggest problem but he’s definitely part of the problem. I’m done trying to split the atom and figure out this shit show. It sucks. Eli sucks too. I’m a fool for thinking this offense would hum. The qb isn’t extremely accurate. He can’t move. He doesn’t always see the whole field and when he does, the protection breaks down. Wonderful.
Look, Barkley only average about 2 yards a carry. And that is with making the first person miss! If the line were even average, there is no way he would average 2 yards!
That points to O line issues. And I'm not sure how much I blame on the players, or the coaching. How the heck does the o line not know who to pick up? Aren't they coached on that?
I realize it is a work in progress and the line needs to work together as a group, but this has been going on for a very long time. I'm really not sure if it's talent or coaching. Right now, it looks like both.
That's just how it is. The line could be better, yes. There are guys missing blocks, yes. But there are guys simply losing 1 on 1 battles, too, AND THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
I have a feeling you think you're winning this argument when you're making my point for me. It happens to every line in every game from time to time, sure, but it sure as hell happens to the Giants far more frequently and more quickly than almost anyone in the NFL and it has been for several seasons now.
Of course nobody will stop Ngouke or Lawrence or Clowney or Watt or whoever else you want to name one on one every time in every game, but nobody is asking for that. But how about putting up a fight an extra half a second? How about when Ngouke blows up Flowers, Omameh isn't also acting as a turnstile simultaneously? How about not allowing a simple stunting DT run straight up the middle untouched? Those are the kinds of things an AVERAGE OL is capable of and ours isn't, and they make a huge difference in the performance of everyone on the field.
I mean, a few threads down from this one we have a thread praising how great Barkley is (rightfully so) when he only had 28 yards rushing and averaged 2.5ypc doing it. On the season, minus the 68 yard run where he still had to juke Myles Jack out of his shoes 2 yards past the line, he is averaging 2.35ypc. That's not on him, that's on the OL. Many of the passing game's and Eli's problems are as well.
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that hasn't been the case since we drafted him. He's always been a less-than-mobile pocket passer.
We've been saying for years now, give him a line that can block. Just because they have consistently failed to do so doesn't mean you get to shift the responsibility for the team's failures to the quarterback.
Mobility has never been his strong suit but it's also NEVER been as big as a liability as it has been for the last 3 or 4 years, and it's getting worse. He is less mobile now than he was 5 years ago. That's understandable, he's 37, not 27.
LMAO...It's getting worse because the fucking line is worse.
If pass and run blocking doesn't improve, the Giants are going to waste all their expensive weapons on offense and Eli will just go downhill.
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In comment 14081467 BlackLight said:
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that hasn't been the case since we drafted him. He's always been a less-than-mobile pocket passer.
We've been saying for years now, give him a line that can block. Just because they have consistently failed to do so doesn't mean you get to shift the responsibility for the team's failures to the quarterback.
Mobility has never been his strong suit but it's also NEVER been as big as a liability as it has been for the last 3 or 4 years, and it's getting worse. He is less mobile now than he was 5 years ago. That's understandable, he's 37, not 27.
LMAO...It's getting worse because the fucking line is worse.
+1000 if they learned to get in the way last night it would of been a vast improvement
That's a strawman argument, it doesn't have to be perfect just somewhat decent
Some people here did not live through the cheers for a successful quick kick on third down, or when we had people giving a punter a standing ovation.
I think Eli is just about done, and we should have drafted a QB, or traded down for more picks, But I am the owner of the team, nor a professional player but knows enough to see an OL confused, spun around, and a limited push off the ball.
Not many QB would have been successful with the current state of this team.
It's a shame we wasted a good portion of Eli's career.
Giving away two shots at additional superbowl titles.
Over the years I root for my team, and will howl at the moon too. But dumping on Eli when such a large percentage of this is not his own doing is messed up.
BBI has become a haven for troll Jet fans.