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Go on the record: is this season over?

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/17/2018 1:36 pm
For all intents & purposes.

I'm looking at the schedule-always dangerous I know due to injuries-but I'm seriously thinking we could be looking at an 0-7 start before possibly picking up a win vs. the Skins before the bye. Good God.

& just looking at the remaining 8 games, I can easily see a repeat record of last season or possibly even worse.

I need a stiff drink badly.
I predicted 5-11  
NoPeanutz : 9/17/2018 1:37 pm : link
before JAX. I admit that this now looks optimistic.
I think they’ll win next week..  
Sean : 9/17/2018 1:38 pm : link
but then fall to 1-6 after that. Same record as last year after 7 games.
This isn't a playoff team  
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 1:40 pm : link
More of the same bullshit football.
Nah  
Andrew in Austin : 9/17/2018 1:40 pm : link
It's still early. Some lightbulbs may go on.

I do hope Eli & Saquon survive the growing pains on the OL.

5-11  
GMAN4LIFE : 9/17/2018 1:40 pm : link
.
well, I doubt they make the playoffs now but  
Tom from LI : 9/17/2018 1:40 pm : link
I think best case is 7&9, worse case is 3&13, most likely 5 and 11.

I thought  
uther99 : 9/17/2018 1:40 pm : link
6-10 originally. That was optimistic
I always felt 6 wins  
Tony in Tampa : 9/17/2018 1:41 pm : link
and they have to scrap to reach six at the tail end of the season.
Depends on what that means  
moespree : 9/17/2018 1:42 pm : link
If it means no important December or January games...then yes it's over.
I said 10-6  
Aqua Giants : 9/17/2018 1:42 pm : link
They might go 1-15
Yes  
Thegratefulhead : 9/17/2018 1:42 pm : link
No chance at playoffs.
Yes  
Sammo85 : 9/17/2018 1:42 pm : link
I thought they were a long shot to contend this year for a playoff spot. Now it looks like barring a dramatic improvement and cinderella story combined, they’ll be picking in the Top 5 of the draft.

Their schedule is tough to begin with and they don’t match up well against their own divisional opponents.

I think 4-12 or 5-11 is being optimistic even.
RE: Depends on what that means  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/17/2018 1:43 pm : link
In comment 14081469 moespree said:
Quote:
If it means no important December or January games...then yes it's over.


I'll start settling for important OCTOBER games @ this rate.
I predicted 6-10 before the season  
BlackLight : 9/17/2018 1:44 pm : link
I think it's too soon to bail on that.

One thing Collinsworth correctly pointed out last night was that the team's OL troubles were more mental than physical. At least that allows for the possibility that they can turn it around a bit before the season's over.
ha  
giantfan2000 : 9/17/2018 1:45 pm : link
Quote:
I predicted 5-11

before JAX. I admit that this now looks optimistic.


so did I !!!

....  
BleedBlue : 9/17/2018 1:45 pm : link
14-2

jokes aside...lets go one week at a time...houston is a beatable team...OL HAS to play better...
if that happens we may actually be able to score.

realistically if this team falls and has around 7 losses at mid point, they need to give lauletta a shot. i know he isnt ready, but we need to start building for the future and that includes seeing this kid in game action. whether he sruggles or not makes no difference, we will be taking an OT and QB with first two picks
no - but we're going to learn quickly what Shurmur/DG are made of  
Eric on Li : 9/17/2018 1:46 pm : link
the impetus is on them to fix the OL, and more broadly the offense. The last regime (Mcadoo/Reese) did a lot worse in their attempts than the previous regime (Coughlin/Gilbride). Shurmur/DG still have a chance to stabilize this season and win 8+ games. It will take an excellent coaching effort to do that, but that's what you need to win in the NFL most of the time. Either those guys are capable of fixing it or they're not.

Also can't lose sight of the defensive issues. Everyone seems confident in Betcher but I'm less confident in the potential of the defensive talent level vs. the offense. They need to find a style of defense that can consistently impact the game. Playing undisciplined and giving up dink/dunk drives without turnovers and negative plays for the offense is a recipe isn't going to cut it.
The season is over  
eugibs : 9/17/2018 1:46 pm : link
not because they are 0-2, but because they are a miserable, awful, boring team that is built to lose.
The NFC is loaded  
elisha2014 : 9/17/2018 1:46 pm : link
never thought making the playoffs was a possibility this season. I expected 8-8 or 9-7 but it looks like it's just last year allover again. Overmatched on O and D line with Eli fading into retirement.

OBJ and Saquon are dynamic and exciting but I don't think we see them hit their potential with Eli as QB. Statuesque QBs do not exist in 2018 with the exception of TB12. and Eli is no Brady.
Nope. The season is not over.  
fivehead : 9/17/2018 1:47 pm : link
The Giants are playing for the first pick in the draft.
the season is NOT over  
Gross Blau Oberst : 9/17/2018 1:47 pm : link
The story line of this being a win now year has really distorted the state of the Giants. Not sure if this was a media invention or a fan one that just took legs and grew. Regardless, it was always way off target and for many created a false sense of expectations for the Giants.

THIS IS YEAR 1 OF AT LEAST A 2 YEAR REBUILD.

I know, some BBI posters advocate their is no such thing as a rebuilding the NFL and that it is always "Win Now". What a bunch of horse hockey pucks that thinking amounts to.

The previous front office created such a talent void, that a 2 year reload / rebuild is absolutely essential. You could not correct all of the broken pieces on 1 year.

Once again, the OL is the teams Achilles' heel and makes all other positions on offense look putrid. Some on BBI still don't get just how much the OL impacts the QB, RB, WRs and TEs and all offensive schemes. For those of you who don't understand that, please continue to rant on that Eli is the blame. Some ignorance cannot be corrected.

Back to the original question. 8-8 is still likely, and the second half of the season will look much better than the first. No playoffs in 2018. that was never a realistic goal. However the improved play in the second half of the season will make believers out of some that the 2018 NYG could be a playoff team.

For the playoffs, look to 2019.


they’ll squeak a win or two that they dont deserve  
wigs in nyc : 9/17/2018 1:47 pm : link
i expect a lot of fight. 6-10? hopefully theyre in trade-up range for the QB they like come draft time.
Meh...  
ZGiants98 : 9/17/2018 1:48 pm : link
If they can somehow beat Houston on the road I’ll feel ok again but if not it’s definitely over.
It's over.  
allstarjim : 9/17/2018 1:48 pm : link
However, I didn't think they were a playoff team coming into the season.

If the Giants win 4 games this year I will be pleasantly surprised. And I don't think that's necessarily a disaster for the organization. It's ok. This is a process.
RE: Yes  
Ceez2.0 : 9/17/2018 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14081474 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
I thought they were a long shot to contend this year for a playoff spot. Now it looks like barring a dramatic improvement and cinderella story combined, they’ll be picking in the Top 5 of the draft.

Their schedule is tough to begin with and they don’t match up well against their own divisional opponents.

I think 4-12 or 5-11 is being optimistic even.


Every time I heard or read someone say "the Giants will never draft as high as 2 ever again" I cringed. I'm shell shocked as a fan much like Eli is as a QB so to me it was always all too fathomable to have another disaster like last year. We're well on our way.
Yep its over  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2018 1:50 pm : link
unless Lauletta is the second coming of Tom Brady.

no way we even approach a .500 record...
Yes  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 9/17/2018 1:50 pm : link
I thought this had the makings of a circa .500 team. I was prepared for anywhere between 6-10 to 9-7 at absolute best neighborhood. I'm now having trouble imagining them winning even 4 games.
If you mean playoffs...  
M.S. : 9/17/2018 1:50 pm : link

...then, yes, it's quite over.
RE: RE: Yes  
Ceez2.0 : 9/17/2018 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14081502 Ceez2.0 said:
Quote:
In comment 14081474 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


I thought they were a long shot to contend this year for a playoff spot. Now it looks like barring a dramatic improvement and cinderella story combined, they’ll be picking in the Top 5 of the draft.

Their schedule is tough to begin with and they don’t match up well against their own divisional opponents.

I think 4-12 or 5-11 is being optimistic even.



Every time I heard or read someone say "the Giants will never draft as high as 2 ever again" I cringed. I'm shell shocked as a fan much like Eli is as a QB so to me it was always all too fathomable to have another disaster like last year. We're well on our way.


Could be worse I suppose, I'm sure Browns and Bills fans won't have sympathy.
I will easily go on record  
bradshaw44 : 9/17/2018 1:50 pm : link
and say that this season is over. What's the worst that can happen to me? I'm wrong and we go on a tear and have a great season?! Oh shucks, now I can't be happy we are having a good season! Yea right. It would be awesome to have to come on here and say I was wrong!


But lets' be real, anyone that thinks we are a tweak here or there from being a contender is out of their mind, or probably very young.
Hopefully injuries don't snowball,  
Simms11 : 9/17/2018 1:51 pm : link
but if they remain relatively healthy, I can see them doing better after the bye. Perhaps a 5-3 type finish?! I'm thinking, with some improvement along the Oline that they can get to 7 wins this year.
Yes. Since my expectations  
Bubba : 9/17/2018 1:51 pm : link
were not high to begin with. I did however hope they would at least be fun to watch on offense.
As far as I am concerned, the season ended  
The_Boss : 9/17/2018 1:53 pm : link
on the 3rd play of the 2nd game.

Fucking pathetic.

Blow hard for Bosa!!!!!
I'll say this,,,  
bw in dc : 9/17/2018 1:54 pm : link
The Texans are not good either. And the Saints are a very strange team after a shootout loss to Tampa than a grind it out win with Cleveland, which they were very lucky to W.

I wouldn't be so quick to pencil those games in as Ls just yet...
I had mild expections of  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/17/2018 1:54 pm : link
an 8-8 season, but after last night, I think we are seeing a repeat of last season. Who knows where we will find our next W. The locker room won't be as bad, but the play on the field will be extremely ugly on offense.
RE: As far as I am concerned, the season ended  
allstarjim : 9/17/2018 1:55 pm : link
In comment 14081518 The_Boss said:
Quote:
on the 3rd play of the 2nd game.

Fucking pathetic.

Blow hard for Bosa!!!!!


If they have the #1 pick and use it on Bosa or any non-QB I will personally drive to Met Life Stadium (from Florida) and shove my remote control right up Gettleman's ass.
I said 4-12  
Stan in LA : 9/17/2018 1:56 pm : link
Nailed it.
RE: RE: As far as I am concerned, the season ended  
The_Boss : 9/17/2018 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14081528 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14081518 The_Boss said:


Quote:


on the 3rd play of the 2nd game.

Fucking pathetic.

Blow hard for Bosa!!!!!



If they have the #1 pick and use it on Bosa or any non-QB I will personally drive to Met Life Stadium (from Florida) and shove my remote control right up Gettleman's ass.


By all accounts, the QB's who will be available for the next draft are bums. Don't panic and reach for one. The time to take a QB was 5 months ago. That train left the station.
Yes  
greek13 : 9/17/2018 1:57 pm : link
5-11
4-12
not to make excuses  
santacruzom : 9/17/2018 1:58 pm : link
but the starting schedule certainly didn't do us any favors. Going against the league's best D at home and then two consecutive road games in Texas... that's pretty tough sledding, and not the best way for a new regime to help their team build confidence. And with the ridiculous home game/road game alternation we've got going on, it just seems unlikely we'll be able to build and sustain momentum.

I don't have much faith that we'll be able to entirely avoid the sort of overall melt down that occurred last year. Hopefully the silver lining is that the front office know what to do NEXT year, but I am not confident.
When every team that plays us only has to put up about 17-20 points  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2018 1:59 pm : link
to be basically assured a victory...yeah its over.
RE: RE: As far as I am concerned, the season ended  
lax counsel : 9/17/2018 2:00 pm : link
In comment 14081528 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14081518 The_Boss said:


Quote:


on the 3rd play of the 2nd game.

Fucking pathetic.

Blow hard for Bosa!!!!!



If they have the #1 pick and use it on Bosa or any non-QB I will personally drive to Met Life Stadium (from Florida) and shove my remote control right up Gettleman's ass.


Unfortunately, there is no qb worth a top 5 pick in this years class at this juncture. At someone posted in another thread, the best qb in the 2018 class would have been the 5th best in 2018 Which is why all of us change folks were screaming for a qb last year at 2. The play in 2018 is to trade back and accumulate assets to make a run at a qb in 2020 or 2021 which should be much better classes.

Also to go on record, not only is this season lost, I fear 2019 may be as well.
I'm Still  
noro9 : 9/17/2018 2:01 pm : link
predicting 6-10. Doubling last years win total.
...  
christian : 9/17/2018 2:02 pm : link
The Giants have dodged a huge bullet -- they are thankfully bad enough to not end the season 7-9 and on the outside of the top 10 in the draft.

If there is a QB who they want they should be in striking distance to be in-place or move up to grab him.

My biggest fear was clawing out an average season, thankfully that doesn't look likely.

It does suck Manning is going to have to get his ass kicked weekly on his way, he surely deserves better.
RE: I'll say this,,,  
gmenatlarge : 9/17/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14081521 bw in dc said:
Quote:
The Texans are not good either. And the Saints are a very strange team after a shootout loss to Tampa than a grind it out win with Cleveland, which they were very lucky to W.

I wouldn't be so quick to pencil those games in as Ls just yet...

Those teams weren't playing the giants. The cowboys exposed this O-line for the sham that they are. In this copycat NFL the giants will see heavy blitzing from now on till they prove they can handle it. Which it doesn't look like they can! So 3-13 or possibly worse.
RE: RE: As far as I am concerned, the season ended  
fivehead : 9/17/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14081528 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14081518 The_Boss said:


Quote:


on the 3rd play of the 2nd game.

Fucking pathetic.

Blow hard for Bosa!!!!!



If they have the #1 pick and use it on Bosa or any non-QB I will personally drive to Met Life Stadium (from Florida) and shove my remote control right up Gettleman's ass.


I said after last season  
GiantNatty : 9/17/2018 2:03 pm : link
that any season we go into with Eli as our quarterback is a lost season. I've seen absolutely nothing that would make me think differently, and a whole lot that makes me think that statement was 100% accurate (unfortunately).
RE: RE: RE: As far as I am concerned, the season ended  
lax counsel : 9/17/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14081535 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14081528 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 14081518 The_Boss said:


Quote:


on the 3rd play of the 2nd game.

Fucking pathetic.

Blow hard for Bosa!!!!!



If they have the #1 pick and use it on Bosa or any non-QB I will personally drive to Met Life Stadium (from Florida) and shove my remote control right up Gettleman's ass.



By all accounts, the QB's who will be available for the next draft are bums. Don't panic and reach for one. The time to take a QB was 5 months ago. That train left the station.


Agreed, the play here is to trade back in 2019 and accumulate picks for a run at one of the qbs in 2020 or 2021. It also would probably wouldn’t hurt to me terrible again in 2019.
Yes  
Marty866b : 9/17/2018 2:04 pm : link
I predicted 7-9. I think 4-12 is more like it. Terrible o-line, poor quarterback play, no pass rush, zero depth at cornerback. Ugly team.
No it's not  
Breeze_94 : 9/17/2018 2:04 pm : link
Giants will be 2-2 after these next 2 games
After the ineptness of this offense for two games,  
Doomster : 9/17/2018 2:06 pm : link
how can anyone be confident that they can put points on the board?

If they lose to the Texans, and are 0-3, then it is definitely over, I think....

Just a matter of time before this defense gives up because the offense is doing nothing....

And this team is so thin after the starters, one or two key injuries, and that iceberg will be floating towards the SS Mara.....
From a playoff standpoint, oh hell yeah. It's over.  
Boy Cord : 9/17/2018 2:06 pm : link
We are talking a three-year fix and the Giants success will be dependent upon finding a new QB.

This year, we are going to have to be satisfied with small victories (i.e. player and coaching development). We need to look at players that will be building blocks for the future. Who will be on this team three years from now?

Highly Likely to Likely (6):

Barkley, OBJ, Hernandez, Tomlinson, Hill, Carter

Questionmarks (7):

Engram, Shephard, Apple, Lauletta, Gallman, Solder, Collins (McIntosh - who the heck knows)

That's it and that sucks. The other talent on this team is aging or their contract will be up soon (OV, Jenkins, Harrison, Ogletree).

What an awful roster. We are in for a minimum of three dark years (that includes this one). There are no guarantees. All I can say is our scouting and pro personnel departments better be on the top of their game.

My level of confidence is low, primarily because of the last point.

This is the thing.  
Leg of Theismann : 9/17/2018 2:06 pm : link
People on this board can say anything they want, and if the Giants turn it around and somehow make the playoffs, those same people get to just come back and laugh and say "oh my lol remember when we lost all hope? Go Giants!" Why? Because they have no accountability and are not actually running the team or playing on the team, so they get to just have eternal pessimism and just give up on the team. The players/coaches can't give up though. And I personally am not ready to send Eli to the glue factory or fire Shurmur and Gettleman. I'd like to see if they can right the ship and fix the mental errors. If we go 3-13 again, I'd still say give another offseason and 2019 season to fully assess. We all knew this wasn't a 1 year rebuild.
RE: RE: I'll say this,,,  
Breeze_94 : 9/17/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 14081554 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14081521 bw in dc said:


Quote:


The Texans are not good either. And the Saints are a very strange team after a shootout loss to Tampa than a grind it out win with Cleveland, which they were very lucky to W.

I wouldn't be so quick to pencil those games in as Ls just yet...


Those teams weren't playing the giants. The cowboys exposed this O-line for the sham that they are. In this copycat NFL the giants will see heavy blitzing from now on till they prove they can handle it. Which it doesn't look like they can! So 3-13 or possibly worse.


The Giants always have trouble with the Dallas DL. Undersized, quick, and they play hard. They run a ton of stunts which the Giants have trouble with, especially seeing as this OL has not played together much and lacks continuity.
Of course the season isn't over  
ThatLimerickGuy : 9/17/2018 2:10 pm : link
We hung tough with the best team in the NFL (Jaguars) and then lost by a TD on the road to a division rival in their home opener.

The number of drama queens on here is ridiculous.

New offensive systems always take 2-3 weeks to gel. The line will get more cohesive. Give it a minute.

The thing you need to focus on is that the defense has played reasonably well. They will continue to improve as well.

In the end will the Giants make the playoffs? Probably not, but the schedule makers didn't do the Giants any favors early in the year either.

Texans and Saints (at Metlife) aren't exactly world beaters. Both suck actually. 2-2 isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Pull up your panties guys and let's go.
Off the record - yes, season is over.  
GiantsUA : 9/17/2018 2:11 pm : link
On the record - there is a good chance that the season is over.
88% of 0-2 teams do not make the playoffs  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/17/2018 2:12 pm : link
and having people remind us that the Giants were in the 12% that did back in 2007 doesn't help.

Giants have been 0-2 3 other times since then, and none of those teams made it to the playoffs.....the number will play out and this team will not make the playoffs....
Eagles might have a down year.  
Leg of Theismann : 9/17/2018 2:13 pm : link
It happens sometimes after a super bowl winning season. Who knows, 9-7 and maybe even 8-8 could win the division, crazier things have happened in the NFC East. I think professional coaches/players have the possibility of being able to turn things around quickly. If they can right the ship by mid-season, the 2nd half of the schedule has a lot more winnable games. If the Giants can somehow grind out even just 3 wins over the next 6 weeks, I'd say sitting at 3-5 at the bye they could very well still be in it. Last night was bad (really bad) but they looked better against JAX. I don't think going .500 over the next 6 games is entirely implausible. If they play the way they played last night, then yeah. But if they play how they played for part of the JAX game, and in the first half of the Jets preseason game, they might be able to grind out some wins. They have to play the games anyway, lets at least watch what happens instead of forfeiting the entire season in week 2.
6-10  
Mr. Nickels : 9/17/2018 2:17 pm : link
it's over
I'm going to say no....  
Britt in VA : 9/17/2018 2:19 pm : link
but it ain't looking great.
before the season I expected 5-11  
Banks : 9/17/2018 2:21 pm : link
+/- 2 games. this is worse than expected
80%  
AcidTest : 9/17/2018 2:24 pm : link
yes, if you mean playoffs. If you can't block, you can't win. It's that simple. And our lack of blocking is compounded by Eli's immobility. We saw that last year.

I said 8-8 before the season, but I'm leaning towards 6-10 right now.. It's concerning that despite major changes and investments, the OL appears no better than it was last year. Maybe they just need time to gel, but right now they are being beaten with speed and power, and having major communication problems.
RE: RE: RE: As far as I am concerned, the season ended  
allstarjim : 9/17/2018 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14081535 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14081528 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 14081518 The_Boss said:


Quote:


on the 3rd play of the 2nd game.

Fucking pathetic.

Blow hard for Bosa!!!!!



If they have the #1 pick and use it on Bosa or any non-QB I will personally drive to Met Life Stadium (from Florida) and shove my remote control right up Gettleman's ass.



By all accounts, the QB's who will be available for the next draft are bums. Don't panic and reach for one. The time to take a QB was 5 months ago. That train left the station.


Yeah well I think that whoever is saying that is a fucking moron looking for clickbait. That train has not left the station, and we are a helluva long way from getting a complete eval on the 2019 QB class. "They" also said Darnold wasn't a good QB even AFTER the season, after saying he was the clear #1 QB and clear #1 overall pick after the 2016 season.

"They" are wrong literally all the time.

I am confident there will be at least one and probably more than one franchise QB in the 2019 class.
I figured ...  
Csonka : 9/17/2018 2:29 pm : link
we needed to go 3-4 at worst over the 1st 7 tough games. Schedule gets easier after that, and I think we'll improve.

But now I'm less optimistic we can go 3-4 to start.
after a pre season  
UESBLUE : 9/17/2018 2:29 pm : link
SB first touch run it was over.
I really don't see more than (maybe) 4 wins  
The_Boss : 9/17/2018 2:29 pm : link
2-3 might be more realistic. Any chance that leads to a one and done scenario with the coach and GM??
I mean 2-14 and 3-13 (again)?
The Giants are not making the playoffs this year  
ij_reilly : 9/17/2018 2:33 pm : link
So by that definition, the season is over.

The stat displayed last night, 1 in 9 teams that start 0-2 make the playoffs.

This is not the "1" team. The OL is putrid. With a line like that, this is not a team that can rebound and knock out 9 wins in the final 14 games.

Say goodnight Gracie.
RE: the season is NOT over  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14081492 Gross Blau Oberst said:
Quote:
The story line of this being a win now year has really distorted the state of the Giants. Not sure if this was a media invention or a fan one that just took legs and grew. Regardless, it was always way off target and for many created a false sense of expectations for the Giants.

THIS IS YEAR 1 OF AT LEAST A 2 YEAR REBUILD.

I know, some BBI posters advocate their is no such thing as a rebuilding the NFL and that it is always "Win Now". What a bunch of horse hockey pucks that thinking amounts to.

The previous front office created such a talent void, that a 2 year reload / rebuild is absolutely essential. You could not correct all of the broken pieces on 1 year.

Once again, the OL is the teams Achilles' heel and makes all other positions on offense look putrid. Some on BBI still don't get just how much the OL impacts the QB, RB, WRs and TEs and all offensive schemes. For those of you who don't understand that, please continue to rant on that Eli is the blame. Some ignorance cannot be corrected.

Back to the original question. 8-8 is still likely, and the second half of the season will look much better than the first. No playoffs in 2018. that was never a realistic goal. However the improved play in the second half of the season will make believers out of some that the 2018 NYG could be a playoff team.

For the playoffs, look to 2019.

This “win now” was an excuse by management to keep a poor QB around and draft a RB. The plan was to surround Eli with a lot of talent and to give him all the support he would need to be successful. It just didn’t work out the way they thought it would.Eli has looked done for awhile now.
I mean define over.  
Joey in VA : 9/17/2018 2:41 pm : link
We're NOT making the playoffs, but from 3-13 to playoffs with a full regime change was never likely but too many here don't think clearly in terms of the actual game. We see Collins and Jackrabbit and Snacks and Odell and think that's what wins games, names we can recognize who have won recognition. This is a broken team with a leftover rag tag bunch of failed draft picks and FA signings that is being made over. I think Gettelman isn't stupid enough to know he'd wave a wand and fix it during one off season. It's a decade of poor drafting and personnel decisions, it's going to take time to fix it. His is philosophically the opposite of Reese, and that clean out will take time.

It's NOT over from the stand point that we are going to watch young players hopefully grow into the next leaders of this team for the next 5-10 years. Barkley, Hernandez, Odell, B.J. Hill, Lorenzo Carter, Eli Apple, Wayne Gallman, Engram, Shephard are all going to hopefully keep improving and be the core of this team for its next run. So over from a we have a shot at the playoffs? Yes, it was never going to be that kind of season and I won't go into why because it's too thorny and painful right now. We have holes to fill at RT, RG, OC, DE, OLB, CB, FS, TE (one who can actually block) and QB. If you want to throw a return guy in too for good measure have at it, because we don't have one of those either.

There are potentially some strong pieces but the foundation is rotten and our OL and DL have to be rebuilt completely (Snacks is pushing 30 too sadly) in terms of starters AND depth. Tomlinson is meh so far, as his Hill but I expect improvement and we have no depth. At LB we probably have two bona fide starters once Carter develops, Ogletree is young enough to be around for a bit but we need another fast ILB and 2 OLB/Edge types who can generate pressure. Right now we have zero. It looks to me, honestly, like DG is bringing in vets, pros who have been around to show the kids how to do it. Those guys are cheap, short term fixes until he can start drafting and using FA his way from the jump. I think guys like Barwin, Mauro, BW Webb, Riley, Kareem Martin, Jonathan Stewart, Nate Solder are not long term fits they are professionals who can impart how to stay in the league and they are at least competitive enough to make us a tough out once in a while.

I expect half of this roster to be gone again next year, and I don't expect most of the DB/WR types we added this off season to remain past maybe Lattimer. We have a rotten core, and it is a work in progress and hopefully we can watch some young guys grow into leaders and key contributors and keep adding them next year and the year after and so on. The entire philosophy of player acquisition is new, the scouting rules are new, the player development and TYPES of players we look for is new so this organizational shift will be seismic but slow. We're hungry for a winner and a glimpse of something after 5-6 years of dreck. It's a full gutting, lots more will be tossed into the yard and hauled off before we get this house in order.

I for one am excited for the future, but it's hard to be with so many holes and two dreadful outcomes. I'm going to be watching Odell, Saquon, Hernandez, Lattimer, Shepard, Engram, Hill, Tomlinson, Carter, Apple and even Rosas for signs of good things to come. They will be the core, just watch them and chart their progress and keep eyes on the college ranks and pending FAs. It's team building time, not trophy talk time.
I play a lot of golf.  
joeinpa : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
Use to play with a guy who if he d hit a bad shot early in the day, let's say an OB on the #2 hole, he be proned to say something like, "Well there goes that round. "

I hated that, and I especially hated pulling his name as my partner for the Saturday morning Nassau and skins game.

Often BBI makes me remember him.
Of course it's not over - there are 14 games left  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
Are our chances of making the playoffs over? Yes.

I didn't think this was a playoff team before the season, but now forget playoffs, we're going to be counting our wins on one hand again.

Sad.
Barring any season ending injuries in the division to key players  
beatrixkiddo : 9/17/2018 2:48 pm : link
Yes, I think we don't stand a shot. I've lowered my expectations and will be happy if this team gets 5-6 wins, shows guts, OL improves even to average, and can at least keep games close like they have been.
RE: RE: RE: As far as I am concerned, the season ended  
allstarjim : 9/17/2018 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14081550 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 14081528 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 14081518 The_Boss said:


Quote:


on the 3rd play of the 2nd game.

Fucking pathetic.

Blow hard for Bosa!!!!!



If they have the #1 pick and use it on Bosa or any non-QB I will personally drive to Met Life Stadium (from Florida) and shove my remote control right up Gettleman's ass.



Unfortunately, there is no qb worth a top 5 pick in this years class at this juncture. At someone posted in another thread, the best qb in the 2018 class would have been the 5th best in 2018 Which is why all of us change folks were screaming for a qb last year at 2. The play in 2018 is to trade back and accumulate assets to make a run at a qb in 2020 or 2021 which should be much better classes.

Also to go on record, not only is this season lost, I fear 2019 may be as well.


Honestly, you're a smart guy, I'm sure. Why in the world would you think, with less than a quarter of the college football season completed, and with no combine yet, would anyone have enough information to make such a definitive statement? Anybody that makes a sweeping statement like that in mid-September doesn't have a clue as to what they are talking about and I couldn't care less about their opinion, as they have already revealed themselves to be full of shit.
Good post Joey  
Kyle in NY : 9/17/2018 2:55 pm : link
Even if the playoffs were always a stretch though, it sure would be valuable for that core you described to play some meaningful games in the second half of the season. That's really my only focus right now. Find a way to win a few before the bye week so at least this group can come out in the second half feeling like they have a chance, even if it isn't a realistic one.

There's still a ton of work to be done on this roster, that much is obvious now. But it'd be nice to not have a dead season by the time we reach October. Find a way to win this week.
Joey gets it, unlike most of the morons posting here now.  
Red Dog : 9/17/2018 3:00 pm : link
This season was never about a championship run. It is about rebuilding the gigantic pile of absolute shit left by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo. And the rebuild will take time.

This team stinks now, but there are several good young players who will grow as the season progresses. And more of them will be added next year.
Yes  
jeff57 : 9/17/2018 3:02 pm : link
5-11. At best.
NO  
Allen in CNJ : 9/17/2018 3:09 pm : link
First and foremost all you guys saying it's over and bailing on this team are in panic mode. Please stop. Realize the people that made the decisions actually KNOW MORE THAN ALL OF US and you, as fans, have to trust them and look at the results when things finish up, not how they are right now.

In Game 1, the Giants played a super bowl contender and basically could've won the game if some things broke their way. They lost. This same destroyed the Pats yesterday.

In Game 2, they lost to a very good defense who always plays well at home and our D surrendered 1 big play, followed by a few other game changers while they were outschemed tremendously on offense. I, for once, agreed with Collinsworth's assessment. Of course we lost, but this game could've went differently if the protections were more in line with what was coming.

I still think they need to get it going, and get all the new pieces working together. There are 2 completely new units learning to play with each other and they need to mesh. 2 games will not do this. They will get it.

I think once they get it together, this team gets on a roll. I don't care what other teams records look like now - every week in the NFL different stuff happens and all sorts of factors can contribute to a team getting on a roll.

This team has the talent, the players, and the skill guys to get it going and I foresee a quick turnaround.

I still say 9-7, 10-6 are a possibility.
I was in for 5-11  
arniefez : 9/17/2018 3:12 pm : link
before the season began because of the OL and the lack of speed in back 7 on defense. I'm not sure they'll get to 5 which is fine. For me if they don't make the playoffs may as well lose them all. If it takes several catastrophic seasons for the the Tisch family to force the Mara Bros back to the GY/Ernie business model so be it. Because the John and Chris Mara show is a shit show.
Good post Joey.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/17/2018 3:12 pm : link
Hopefully you're right.
No there are still 14 games left to play unfortunately  
Dinger : 9/17/2018 3:12 pm : link
But I never expected them to make the playoffs and if they did by chance I wouldn't have expected a victory. All I wanted was improvement each week. not major but improvement. The defense took a step back the offense fell off a cliff, Flowers disease is contagious not only to other linemen but to full backs and TE as well. Eli has happy feet and they already have their new meme of him.


I've fallen and I can't get up, at least not behind this OL///// - ( New Window )
It was over  
section125 : 9/17/2018 3:31 pm : link
at the conclusion of the last season. It may be over for 2019, too. This team is no where near ready to compete with anybody.
no not over  
bc4life : 9/17/2018 3:37 pm : link
they will get better. defense has played pretty well both weeks -

O-Line will determine whether this team is even close re: the hunt for Wild Card.

The answer is yes  
elgoman : 9/17/2018 3:46 pm : link
...
Absolutely not  
PatersonPlank : 9/17/2018 3:50 pm : link
if Shurmur is as good a coach as I think, he will get things figured out. Some of this is talent, but some is scheme
Yes.  
trueblueinpw : 9/17/2018 4:09 pm : link
For me the question is whether or not the next 5 years are lost. Remember, the owners just hired this crew. Last night I kept wondering, how did DG land us in “QB hell” after he spent so much time and effort trying to avoid it?
Yes it is: The O Line is the problem.  
Frank from CA : 9/17/2018 4:35 pm : link
It is too bad because most of the teams on the schedule are not complete and flawed enough for a Giants team with a mediocre O Line to compete. I think bw in dc for one alluded to this among others. Because our O Line is very bad, the running game is easily stifled and Shurmur is stuck in an endless array of third and longs. Barkley is capable of being a very productive weapon in all phases of the offense. He is being wasted behind this line. I will continue to watch and hope to see improvement. I will take solace in the great plays the 2018 Giants will make. Without at least a mediocre front line, the offense is easily handled by the opposing defense. This 2018 Giants team should not have lost to Dallas....
.  
arcarsenal : 9/17/2018 4:52 pm : link
Yes.

I said last night was a must win and am sticking to that. We failed miserably.

It's going to be another long, depressing year of Giants football.

I gave this team the benefit of the doubt for far too long. No more. I've been fooled too many times finding ways to believe maybe things could get better out of wishful thinking - but things are so, so far away from getting better.

The New York Giants are officially a fucking mess.
The season was over before it started if you were thinking playoffs  
rich in DC : 9/17/2018 5:01 pm : link
A great majority of the roster is mere filler until such time as the team can create cap space and gather up some very high draft picks.

As Joey noted, they dumped more than half the team- but didn't have many draft picks (6, plus the supplemental pick they used from next year's draft).

Notice a common theme from the draft- the Giants picked a guy who had a well known medical condition that probably ensured that he would not play this year (McIntosh-5th rounder) and a QB who was always destined to red-shirt his rookie season (Lauletta). Add in a CB with a shoulder injury the team was aware of and probably knew would require surgery that would end his season (Beal).

What does that tell you?

It tells you that the plan was not to bring in a bunch of guys for now- but to build for later. Barkley, Hill, Hernandez and Carter will all be here the next time the Giants are good after several years of rebuilding. OBJ will probably still be playing at a star level. After that...

The Giants can create a massive amount of cap space, if they want to, after this season. Notice that Solder is the only FA signing that they can't dump this off-season (for financial reasons). They could probably target OL and DB with that money and then focus their draft on pass rush, a franchise QB- if one is there, and then depth guys all over.

That kind of off-season gives you the core going forward for skill players- but also probably requires one more solid off-season of FA and drafting to build the depth of the team into a contender.
4-12  
5BowlsSoon : 9/17/2018 5:11 pm : link
Does that make the season over?
Yes it's over  
Shirk130 : 9/17/2018 5:15 pm : link
and the future doesn't look so good either. I won't miss a snap, but I'm going to spend a lot of Monday's very cranky.
Unless the O-line plays much better  
Don in DC : 9/17/2018 5:17 pm : link
with more time spent together, then yes it's over. At least we can start looking forward to further rebuilding the O-line this coming off season.
RE: No it's not  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 5:18 pm : link
In comment 14081566 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Giants will be 2-2 after these next 2 games
You are either related to Eli Manning or need to put the crack pipe down.
RE: From a playoff standpoint, oh hell yeah. It's over.  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14081569 Boy Cord said:
Quote:
We are talking a three-year fix and the Giants success will be dependent upon finding a new QB.

This year, we are going to have to be satisfied with small victories (i.e. player and coaching development). We need to look at players that will be building blocks for the future. Who will be on this team three years from now?

Highly Likely to Likely (6):

Barkley, OBJ, Hernandez, Tomlinson, Hill, Carter

Questionmarks (7):

Engram, Shephard, Apple, Lauletta, Gallman, Solder, Collins (McIntosh - who the heck knows)

That's it and that sucks. The other talent on this team is aging or their contract will be up soon (OV, Jenkins, Harrison, Ogletree).

What an awful roster. We are in for a minimum of three dark years (that includes this one). There are no guarantees. All I can say is our scouting and pro personnel departments better be on the top of their game.

My level of confidence is low, primarily because of the last point.
Wow I was taking to a fellow Giants fan and this is exactly what I told him also. You know after another bad year they are going to be dumping high salary players but won’t start with the elephant in the room(Eli Manning).
the good news is that the other bad teams already have their QBs  
jlukes : 9/17/2018 5:28 pm : link
Cards have Rosen
Bills have Allen
Browns have Mayfield

RE: Of course the season isn't over  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14081583 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
We hung tough with the best team in the NFL (Jaguars) and then lost by a TD on the road to a division rival in their home opener.

The number of drama queens on here is ridiculous.

New offensive systems always take 2-3 weeks to gel. The line will get more cohesive. Give it a minute.

The thing you need to focus on is that the defense has played reasonably well. They will continue to improve as well.

In the end will the Giants make the playoffs? Probably not, but the schedule makers didn't do the Giants any favors early in the year either.

Texans and Saints (at Metlife) aren't exactly world beaters. Both suck actually. 2-2 isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Pull up your panties guys and let's go.
if you think this was really a one score game and not padding stats after Dallas secured the game you are one of the blind Eli supporters. The Oline is bad but Eli is also part of the problem.
Is the season over?  
81_Great_Dane : 9/17/2018 5:35 pm : link
What does "over" mean? Depends on what people's expectations are.

I expected the team to struggle early in the season while they put in the new offense and defense, and while the line gets used to playing together. So far the defense is ahead of where I thought they'd be but the offense is behind. 0-2 doesn't surprise me at all. I'm thinking 1-5 or 2-6 is likely this season. I'm expecting a much better team in the second half.

This season isn't about contending for a Super Bowl, it's barely about contending for the playoffs. It wasn't ever about that. It was about laying the foundation for a contender in the years to come. That's what I'm watching for -- how good are the new players and coaches? Is the team improving? In that sense it's not over at all. But if you're thinking playoffs and Super Bowl, I think it was over before it started, despite all the hype about the Giants' weapons. Football isn't like that. Pretty much everything has to work or nothing works. So far, on offense, nothing works.
RE: Joey gets it, unlike most of the morons posting here now.  
BigBlueGuy : 9/17/2018 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14081707 Red Dog said:
Quote:
This season was never about a championship run. It is about rebuilding the gigantic pile of absolute shit left by Reese, Ross, and McAdoo. And the rebuild will take time.

This team stinks now, but there are several good young players who will grow as the season progresses. And more of them will be added next year.
Red Dog management’s( Gettleman)spin on not taking Darnold was we are in “win now” mode but what has Eli or this O-line shown that this would be possible. Eli has been bad for 4 of the past 5 seasons. The only is an issue but you need a different type of QB to play behind this OL. You need a young,accurate, athletic QB everything Eli isn’t.
I am actually drinking right now...  
EricJ : 9/17/2018 5:49 pm : link
while at my desk. This is just unreal.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/17/2018 5:53 pm : link
I said several times I saw this as probably a 7-8 win team... maybe 9 if things REALLY broke right.

I don't think those were totally unrealistic expectations to have. I didn't think playoffs, Super Bowl... nothing like that.

I did think improvement would be evident, and so far, it actually is not. I think the Giants actually looked worse last night than they did in Week 1 - which is even more alarming.

This football team should not be this bad. Period. There's really no way around it. If we were going to suck again this year, we should have just cut bait with Eli before it started and drafted Darnold.
RE: The season was over before it started if you were thinking playoffs  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 5:59 pm : link
In comment 14081971 rich in DC said:
Quote:
A great majority of the roster is mere filler until such time as the team can create cap space and gather up some very high draft picks.

As Joey noted, they dumped more than half the team- but didn't have many draft picks (6, plus the supplemental pick they used from next year's draft).

Notice a common theme from the draft- the Giants picked a guy who had a well known medical condition that probably ensured that he would not play this year (McIntosh-5th rounder) and a QB who was always destined to red-shirt his rookie season (Lauletta). Add in a CB with a shoulder injury the team was aware of and probably knew would require surgery that would end his season (Beal).

What does that tell you?

It tells you that the plan was not to bring in a bunch of guys for now- but to build for later. Barkley, Hill, Hernandez and Carter will all be here the next time the Giants are good after several years of rebuilding. OBJ will probably still be playing at a star level. After that...

The Giants can create a massive amount of cap space, if they want to, after this season. Notice that Solder is the only FA signing that they can't dump this off-season (for financial reasons). They could probably target OL and DB with that money and then focus their draft on pass rush, a franchise QB- if one is there, and then depth guys all over.

That kind of off-season gives you the core going forward for skill players- but also probably requires one more solid off-season of FA and drafting to build the depth of the team into a contender.


This would be interesting if true - but two of the guys they brought in, Solder and Omameh, can't really be cut next year and so far they stink.

Meanwhile, in the multi-year rebuild you're proposing - what age is Beckham by the time you've finally picked up a QB?
Yes  
rocco8112 : 9/17/2018 6:50 pm : link
.
Not til 8th loss  
micky : 9/17/2018 7:43 pm : link
If they don't start to play "professionally" on the OL, It'll come super fast
What would lead anyone to think  
Dave on the UWS : 9/17/2018 8:50 pm : link
This team will improve enough to win ANY game? They were so severely out coached vs Dallas ( a mediocre team at best) that they were non COMPETATIVE - again! They aren't close to playing winning football and when the losing and injuries start taking their toll ( C gone for the year, Apple likely out for awhile) they may get further away not closer. I think winning 2 or 3 games will be a big challenge this year.
The schedule is a monster.  
FStubbs : 9/17/2018 8:57 pm : link
Right now I don't see the wins anywhere.
It's not over in a weak division  
B in ALB : 9/17/2018 9:49 pm : link
right now. I don't see the Cowboys, Skins or Eagles being exponentially better than the Giants to the point that they won't split the series as the season goes on. However, the other games are pretty rough. Next week is as close to a must-win as could be though. This team could very well start collapsing after an 0-3 start. At 1-2 you're right back in the mix in the division.

But to the original question. No, it's not over yet. One game at a time. (unfortunately, my optimism lately has had some detrimental effects. haha)
Hard to see how they fix the OL  
BillT : 9/17/2018 9:51 pm : link
It’s a fatal flaw. We’ve seen this before.
I’ve waited months to see this team  
djm : 9/17/2018 10:15 pm : link
I can’t give up now. But it’s hard dealing with the constant and endless disappointment. Every week it’s a gut shot since September last season.
RE: the good news is that the other bad teams already have their QBs  
djm : 9/17/2018 10:48 pm : link
In comment 14082013 jlukes said:
Quote:
Cards have Rosen
Bills have Allen
Browns have Mayfield


Actually a good point. And seriously look around the nfl there aren’t many teams in desperate need of a qb, at least on paper and right now anyway. This will change in 2-3 seasons but for now, not many.
Not quite yet  
Matt M. : 9/17/2018 10:54 pm : link
But, another loss or two and it is for sure.
No...  
Vinny from Danbury : 9/17/2018 11:43 pm : link
.
RE: It's not over in a weak division  
EricJ : 9/18/2018 7:39 am : link
In comment 14082476 B in ALB said:
Quote:
right now. I don't see the Cowboys, Skins or Eagles being exponentially better than the Giants to the point that they won't split the series as the season goes on. However, the other games are pretty rough. Next week is as close to a must-win as could be though. This team could very well start collapsing after an 0-3 start. At 1-2 you're right back in the mix in the division.

But to the original question. No, it's not over yet. One game at a time. (unfortunately, my optimism lately has had some detrimental effects. haha)


I get your analysis but I think it is a bit of wishful/glass half full thinking. You know as much as the next guy that this game is won on the line of scrimmage. We cannot run block, we cannot pass protect, and we cannot even touch the QB on defense. That is not a formula for success in any division.

Now, about the weak division comment. That is fine if you are talking about how they will fare against the rest of the league but WE do not match up well against these teams. Dallas can obviously stop our offense and the Eagles have a better defense than the Cowboys.
RE: RE: It's not over in a weak division  
gmenatlarge : 9/20/2018 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14082747 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14082476 B in ALB said:


Quote:


right now. I don't see the Cowboys, Skins or Eagles being exponentially better than the Giants to the point that they won't split the series as the season goes on. However, the other games are pretty rough. Next week is as close to a must-win as could be though. This team could very well start collapsing after an 0-3 start. At 1-2 you're right back in the mix in the division.

But to the original question. No, it's not over yet. One game at a time. (unfortunately, my optimism lately has had some detrimental effects. haha)



I get your analysis but I think it is a bit of wishful/glass half full thinking. You know as much as the next guy that this game is won on the line of scrimmage. We cannot run block, we cannot pass protect, and we cannot even touch the QB on defense. That is not a formula for success in any division.

Now, about the weak division comment. That is fine if you are talking about how they will fare against the rest of the league but WE do not match up well against these teams. Dallas can obviously stop our offense and the Eagles have a better defense than the Cowboys.



I am not really sure where that splitting the div series stuff is coming from after getting man-handled by a weak Dallas team, while the Eagles are much better and the Redskins we don't know about but have looked much better than the G-men (who hasn't)!
Good lord  
RinR : 9/20/2018 1:32 pm : link
the season is not over after 2 games. They are 1 game out of first. Lots of football still to be played.

Back to the Corner