After 2 weeks one thing I thought I knew but I was wrong.

no WAY this offensive line could be even worse than last years!





Oops.

I thought the trifecta of Beckham/Engram/Barkley would be too difficult to defend in the red zone.

Then yesterday, 1st and goal from the 3, we have Beckham in single coverage at the top of the screen. We just made him the highest paid WR in the league. What do we do? We run it wide for a 5 yard loss (with a holding penalty to boot). I almost threw my cell phone through the TV on this play.

Brutal, awful performance from Shurmur. Awful.

that the Giants would score a touchdown occasionally.

In comment 14081601 Jon in NYC said:

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no WAY this offensive line could be even worse than last years! Oops.

😂

In comment 14081602 Go Terps said:

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I thought the trifecta of Beckham/Engram/Barkley would be too difficult to defend in the red zone. Then yesterday, 1st and goal from the 3, we have Beckham in single coverage at the top of the screen. We just made him the highest paid WR in the league. What do we do? We run it wide for a 5 yard loss (with a holding penalty to boot). I almost threw my cell phone through the TV on this play. Brutal, awful performance from Shurmur. Awful.

I went nuts after this play.

What has surprised me is the amount of misdirection both JAC and DAL used on us and the constant crashing down by our outside backers leaving open lanes outside.

But when teams try to power us up the middle I think we have been pretty stout.

the 30 point total by now......mmmmm....nope

and i hate saying this after only two games, is the play calling on offense.

Shurmur came here with a reputation as a good play caller. While I didn't have many complaints with the way he attacked JAX, I do not like the way we attacked DAL last night.

JMO.

score a lot this year with all the weapons we have. I bought into the theory"they cant cover everyone". Seems I was way off.

of all the bones to pick with the NYG so far, the play of DL seems nit-picky to me - they played pretty well against two of the better run games in the NFL.

In comment 14081622 Snacks said:

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and i hate saying this after only two games, is the play calling on offense. Shurmur came here with a reputation as a good play caller. While I didn't have many complaints with the way he attacked JAX, I do not like the way we attacked DAL last night. JMO.

To expand on this, if we are only going to score 13 points I would rather do it pounding the shit out of the rock for a couple of yards a pop and then try to set up playaction. NOT by dropping back over and over again setting Eli up to fumble/throw a pick/develop more jitters.

In comment 14081625 GIANTS128 said:

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score a lot this year with all the weapons we have. I bought into the theory"they cant cover everyone". Seems I was way off.

Play calling is awful and leaves Eli and Co to drown.

I would pound all day long, every game and get better at running the ball which would eventually set up the pass. For some reason, Macadoo and Schurmer don't see it.

...would be a big difference. I was expecting guys to get open based on formation/scheme and have some gimme's.

So far, you could put BMac on the sideline and I wouldn't know the difference - so far.

Let's see where it goes.

Someone said on another thread, you're going to learn A LOT about Shurmur and this staff.

In comment 14081602 Go Terps said:

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Then yesterday, 1st and goal from the 3, we have Beckham in single coverage at the top of the screen. We just made him the highest paid WR in the league. What do we do? We run it wide for a 5 yard loss (with a holding penalty to boot). I almost threw my cell phone through the TV on this play. Brutal, awful performance from Shurmur. Awful.

This I just got get Terps.......I mean, are they overthinking it???

midfield, it's 4th and inches, they just drafted a guy 2nd overall who's supposed to be a dynamic RB and they paid Stewart $3M.

So what do they do? Send out the punt team.

OK, playing conservative - except not too much later, two 4th and goal sneaks by Eli. WTF?!

job exploiting matchups and finding weaknesses in the defenses. It feels like maybe we have another offensive genius who can't call an offense.

I wasn't necessarily expecting a win last week, but there were a few things that were consistent with last year that I was disappointed in(OL play, D not making stops, bad penalties) regarding the play. But, Even after the game, I came away with a positive feeling of staying close with a legitimate playoff team.

Yesterday was a complete setback. How do you get out played out coached and out done by a division rival. Just a complete step back.

offensively.


You realize that the Giants averaged 21 points per game under "The World's Dumbest Coach" (BBI Tm) in the 3 started by Odell Beckham last season. And they left a shitload of points on the field in all 3 of those games, so they easily could've averaged more. McAdoo didn't have Solder or Barkley to work with. Shurmur has quit a bit of work to do in the next 6 days to make this unit look at least professional.

Thought the OL would at least be somewhat better.

.

But they can't rush the QB at all. The LBs are still horrible and slow which is why teams are running and passing on the Giants with ease. Keep in mind they just played two really bad O's. Wait until the good teams get their shot at them.

In comment 14081602 Go Terps said:

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I thought the trifecta of Beckham/Engram/Barkley would be too difficult to defend in the red zone. Then yesterday, 1st and goal from the 3, we have Beckham in single coverage at the top of the screen. We just made him the highest paid WR in the league. What do we do? We run it wide for a 5 yard loss (with a holding penalty to boot). I almost threw my cell phone through the TV on this play. Brutal, awful performance from Shurmur. Awful.

Not only was it a brutal call, with a hold and a loss of 5, but Rhett Ellison, our 'blocking tight end', gets blown up at the point of attack, falls into the backfield and causes the entire play to go backwards. Our blocking tight end. Did you all get that!!!!!

In comment 14081602 Go Terps said:

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I thought the trifecta of Beckham/Engram/Barkley would be too difficult to defend in the red zone. Then yesterday, 1st and goal from the 3, we have Beckham in single coverage at the top of the screen. We just made him the highest paid WR in the league. What do we do? We run it wide for a 5 yard loss (with a holding penalty to boot). I almost threw my cell phone through the TV on this play. Brutal, awful performance from Shurmur. Awful.

It was awful - but my question is who made that decision? Pat Shurmur or Eli? Are we 100% sure that was the original call Shurmur made?

In any event, I had a similarly disgusted reaction when it happened.

This team sucks.

but here's a sobering stat: since we drafted him we averaged 21 PPG coming into this season. Obviously we haven't even reached that number yet in these two games, and that's with Barkley and Engram.

It's about roster construction, and understanding what is needed for Eli to succeed. Once the decision was made by ownership to go forth with Eli, we would have been better off trading Beckham and Engram for offensive linemen, using the #2 pick on Nelson, and using Beckham's money on Norwall - or some combination of the above. Aaron Rodgers said it himself on the short lived Bill Simmons HBO show: he'd take the elite OL over the elite skill players 10 times out of 10. I can only imagine that applies even more to a lesser athlete like Eli.

if it's decided that Eli is your QB in 2018 then ALL possible measures must be taken to not only improve over last year's OL disaster but to ensure that the OL is the strongest unit on the team.

In comment 14081977 Go Terps said:

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but here's a sobering stat: since we drafted him we averaged 21 PPG coming into this season. Obviously we haven't even reached that number yet in these two games, and that's with Barkley and Engram. It's about roster construction, and understanding what is needed for Eli to succeed. Once the decision was made by ownership to go forth with Eli, we would have been better off trading Beckham and Engram for offensive linemen, using the #2 pick on Nelson, and using Beckham's money on Norwall - or some combination of the above. Aaron Rodgers said it himself on the short lived Bill Simmons HBO show: he'd take the elite OL over the elite skill players 10 times out of 10. I can only imagine that applies even more to a lesser athlete like Eli.

That'll fall on deaf ears here. We just need a QB that moves better in the pocket. Why should we listen to Aaron Rogers when we have so many BBI experts.

In comment 14081977 Go Terps said:

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but here's a sobering stat: since we drafted him we averaged 21 PPG coming into this season. Obviously we haven't even reached that number yet in these two games, and that's with Barkley and Engram. It's about roster construction, and understanding what is needed for Eli to succeed. Once the decision was made by ownership to go forth with Eli, we would have been better off trading Beckham and Engram for offensive linemen, using the #2 pick on Nelson, and using Beckham's money on Norwall - or some combination of the above. Aaron Rodgers said it himself on the short lived Bill Simmons HBO show: he'd take the elite OL over the elite skill players 10 times out of 10. I can only imagine that applies even more to a lesser athlete like Eli.

Beckham is second in the sport in TDs since he made his debut and that's with all of the games he missed last season. What would they have scored without him?

The best 2 year stretch of Eli's career was 2014-2015 with Odell. The single best season of his career was 2011 with Nicks, Cruz, and MM. Perhaps his best season analytically was 2009. That year they drafted Hakeem Nicks and played him with MM and Steve Smith. And of course Eli had Plaxico (who you hate even more than Odell), Toomer, and Steve Smith when he won his first title.

Where are you getting this idea that Eli can "succeed" with substandard receivers? Substandard receivers are the main reason the 2008 team (the best of the Manning era) didn't win a single playoff game. Teams hope they find elite players in the draft. Trading a 25 year-old elite player for unknowns doesn't make sense, even from a "roster construction" standpoint.

You're making my point. The best Giants team with Eli Manning, in 2008, had a leading receiver (Hixon) with 596 yards. That team scored more points than any we've had with Beckham because the offensive line was elite.

Every possible effort should have been thrown at the offensive line as Eli got older. Instead we've got expensive shiny toys and an offense that can't score.

It's almost impossible to have a constructive argument about any other part of this team when you can't block. I don't know whether it's scheme or physicality or play calling - but I've never seen people go unblocked as much as I've seen the last two games. If this can't be fixed, we're screwed!!

In comment 14082023 Go Terps said:

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You're making my point. The best Giants team with Eli Manning, in 2008, had a leading receiver (Hixon) with 596 yards. That team scored more points than any we've had with Beckham because the offensive line was elite. Every possible effort should have been thrown at the offensive line as Eli got older. Instead we've got expensive shiny toys and an offense that can't score.

Since 2013, they've drafted 2 tackles with first round picks. They've drafted 2 interior linemen with second round picks. They've signed guys like Schwartz and Solder. The issue isn't inattention as much as it's poor scouting and coaching.

Calling the second leading scorer in the NFL since 2014 "a shiny toy" is ridiculous. If not for the "shiny toy", Manning probably would've been gone already.

I think the line is bad - but I also think Eli is more at fault than we probably even realize. He's very skittish. He's gunshy. He hears footsteps before they're there, he doesn't hang in the way he used to, and he can't move... at all.

I'm getting to a point where I think a QB who can move a bit may be more attainable than the type of OL Dallas has had recently (which is starting to deteriorate already because of Smith's bad knee, Frederick's health, and guys who needed to be paid)

I think most OL's are poor in the 2018 incarnation of the NFL. And I think the best QB's are the ones who can buy themselves a bit more time to make plays down the field.

I'm aware of Tom Brady being a statue - Eli is not Tom Brady and Bill isn't coaching here. So, just throw that out now.

Rodgers can move and buy time. Wilson can buy time. Stafford can buy time. Watson can move all over the place.

I guess if you look at Minnesota, you've got a really well-constructed team that has a strong OL, excellent defense, 2 outstanding WR's and they still gave a monstrous deal to Cousins. They're set up to win now but they have to win soon because the window will close pretty fast.

I never wanted to arrive at the conclusion that Eli is a big part of the problem, but we're running out of other places to point the finger and he's been one of the few constants on some really bad football teams since 2012.

couple of other BBI faithful that will be on board soon...

In comment 14082043 arcarsenal said:

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I never wanted to arrive at the conclusion that Eli is a big part of the problem, but we're running out of other places to point the finger and he's been one of the few constants on some really bad football teams since 2012.

This is the most concerning bit - we have tried to fix this.

Multiple coaches, multiple FOs, have had numerous players in and out - and the results stay the same. The one constant in that time is Eli.

And this has all been since the start of 2012 - which maybe not coincidentally, was when the CBA changes meant less practice time, and started the trend toward fewer pocket passers and more spread offenses in CFB, which meant less pro offense ready linemen.

Maybe it was just a perfect storm - combined with some decline in athletic ability by Eli, and a faster internal clock from taking a repeated beating - maybe there just isn't an OL you can put in front of him anymore.

I really did think Eli would prove people wrong this year and I thought he had another 2015 in him or something close. But if this team can't compete with him, he should never have been the QB again this year.

The guys upstairs should have been able to determine this and it's pretty concerning that they couldn't - this past offseason was a pretty major crossroads for the Giants and it's looking like we went the wrong way.

I hate being this person - I am always more "wait and see" but I've waited and seen enough.

The Giants have big problems.

And I was one of the guys who started a thread saying Eli still had gas in the tank. I thought this Summer he was throwing with a little more conviction. Seeing what Shurmur got out of Keenum and seeing the way he was able to get his WR's open and make a guy like Adam Theilen a major factor in this league had me thinking we'd be able to get these weapons we have open all over the field.

Saquon Barkley, Odell Beckham, Evan Engram, Sterling Shepard.

Who is covering all of these guys?

And we can't even break 20 points.

Can't blame all of that on the offensive line. The line is bad. So are a lot of lines. The NFL has changed a lot in a short time. We haven't adapted.

They saw this as Gettleman's version of Joe Gibbs 'Master Plan', a secret, multi-year rebuild that would deliver a contender.

The whole concept doesn't mesh at all, the approach was backwards. If they knew the line were completely rotten, and would require more than one year to repair - why even retain Eli? Fan backlash? That had already happened, and had plenty of people on BBI speculating he might leave on his own.

Further, if the line was so bad that it needed to be totally rebuilt, why bother paying premium dollars to Solder? Everyone knew he wasn't a premium player, and that the line wasn't one guy away from repair. So why overpay for that position if you knew it wasn't likely going to make much of a difference? And that's before you get into what happened with Omameh.

The Giants, scarily, were doing what the Giants have been doing since the 2012 season - they've been thinking they're a few tweaks away from contending again. That was their approach to the coaching position - force McAdoo on TC, then ultimately hand the reigns over to him. That was Reese's approach to fixing the roster - big spending in FA to fill holes and swinging on high risk/reward players in the draft.

It hasn't worked at all in those 6 years - and sadly, with an entirely new FO structure, it looks like they're still at it and it still doesn't work.

In comment 14082068 jcn56 said:

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They saw this as Gettleman's version of Joe Gibbs 'Master Plan', a secret, multi-year rebuild that would deliver a contender. The whole concept doesn't mesh at all, the approach was backwards. If they knew the line were completely rotten, and would require more than one year to repair - why even retain Eli? Fan backlash? That had already happened, and had plenty of people on BBI speculating he might leave on his own. Further, if the line was so bad that it needed to be totally rebuilt, why bother paying premium dollars to Solder? Everyone knew he wasn't a premium player, and that the line wasn't one guy away from repair. So why overpay for that position if you knew it wasn't likely going to make much of a difference? And that's before you get into what happened with Omameh. The Giants, scarily, were doing what the Giants have been doing since the 2012 season - they've been thinking they're a few tweaks away from contending again. That was their approach to the coaching position - force McAdoo on TC, then ultimately hand the reigns over to him. That was Reese's approach to fixing the roster - big spending in FA to fill holes and swinging on high risk/reward players in the draft. It hasn't worked at all in those 6 years - and sadly, with an entirely new FO structure, it looks like they're still at it and it still doesn't work.

Agree.

They've been chasing a carrot on a stick for years now and the approach hasn't been working.

New GM. More of the same.

"Let's go for it with Eli"

It hasn't worked before. It's not working now.

I don't want to bury Dave Gettleman after 2 games, but if you take a step back and look - he really didn't approach things much differently than Reese had been at all.

If I told you Jerry Reese was still the GM, you'd probably believe me. How much has really changed?

Otherwise, it sure as hell looks like a lot more of the same.

Was the franchise sinking albatross!

In comment 14081676 BillKo said:

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...would be a big difference. I was expecting guys to get open based on formation/scheme and have some gimme's. So far, you could put BMac on the sideline and I wouldn't know the difference - so far. Let's see where it goes. Someone said on another thread, you're going to learn A LOT about Shurmur and this staff.

They actually are getting open but before they make it their first cut 4 guys are all over eli’s Shit