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NGT: Browns and Vikings waive their kickers

pjcas18 : 9/17/2018 2:32 pm
not sure whose followed this.

Browns kicker (Gonzalez) missed 2xp's and 2 FG's in the second half yesterday and missed at least one FG in OT last week that would have won the game.

Carlson for MIN missed 2 FG's in OT, he was the first kicker taken in the 2018 draft I believe.

Dan Bailey's phone line should be blazing.

Hey, at least the Giants don't have a kicking issue. Yet.


Adam Schefter
& #8207;Verified account @AdamSchefter

Browns and Vikings both have now waived their former kickers Zane Gonzalez and Daniel Carlson, per sources.
2:21 PM - 17 Sep 2018
You just jinxed it!  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/17/2018 2:34 pm : link
!!!
Well I think  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2018 2:35 pm : link
the punter sucks.

So the Giants do have a "kicking" issue.
Vikings signed Bailey  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 2:35 pm : link
.
RE: Vikings signed Bailey  
BillKo : 9/17/2018 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14081650 jcn56 said:
Quote:
.


To me......that was a slam dunk.

Real nice bump for the Vikes.....he'll be lethal indoors.
Apparently Bailey lost a ton of leg strength  
UConn4523 : 9/17/2018 2:54 pm : link
definitely worth a flier and can’t be worse but a lot of teams passed on him this offseason.
RE: Apparently Bailey lost a ton of leg strength  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2018 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14081692 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
definitely worth a flier and can’t be worse but a lot of teams passed on him this offseason.


Wasn't Bailey just cut September 1?

What do you mean teams passed on him?
Didn't think Minnesota would do it  
Kyle in NY : 9/17/2018 2:56 pm : link
after they just drafted the kid. Cold.
RE: RE: Apparently Bailey lost a ton of leg strength  
jvm52106 : 9/17/2018 3:04 pm : link
In comment 14081696 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14081692 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


definitely worth a flier and can’t be worse but a lot of teams passed on him this offseason.

If you mean over the last two weeks then ok but he was a Cowboy all offseason.



Wasn't Bailey just cut September 1?

What do you mean teams passed on him?
weird  
jvm52106 : 9/17/2018 3:04 pm : link
I added a comment but any way, he was a Cowboy all offseason. Nobody passed on him.
RE: Apparently Bailey lost a ton of leg strength  
Jay on the Island : 9/17/2018 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14081692 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
definitely worth a flier and can’t be worse but a lot of teams passed on him this offseason.

Not true, Bailey turned down several teams because he was waiting for the right opportunity.
...  
Jay on the Island : 9/17/2018 4:29 pm : link
Word on Sunday was that Bailey had turned down multiple offers since being released on cutdown day and was waiting for the “right team” before returning to active duty.


Link - ( New Window )
This is why you don't draft kickers  
Anakim : 9/17/2018 6:16 pm : link
Roberto Aguayo, Daniel Carlson, Zane Gonzalez...



DON'T. DRAFT. KICKERS. EVER! I don't give a shit if they're the second coming of Lou Groza.
Ah, gotta love kicking families  
Anakim : 9/17/2018 6:17 pm : link
The Carlsons
The Aguayos
The Gramaticas
Eh, drafting a kicker is fine  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 6:21 pm : link
Just do it Rds 6 or 7. Drafting a kicker in the 1st or 2nd round if you're not the corpse of Al Davis has gone out of style.
RE: Eh, drafting a kicker is fine  
Anakim : 9/17/2018 6:22 pm : link
In comment 14082102 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Just do it Rds 6 or 7. Drafting a kicker in the 1st or 2nd round if you're not the corpse of Al Davis has gone out of style.


Maybe if you have 12 picks. But if you have 7 picks in the Draft, why waste one on a PK?
RE: RE: Eh, drafting a kicker is fine  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 6:32 pm : link
In comment 14082105 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14082102 jcn56 said:


Quote:


Just do it Rds 6 or 7. Drafting a kicker in the 1st or 2nd round if you're not the corpse of Al Davis has gone out of style.



Maybe if you have 12 picks. But if you have 7 picks in the Draft, why waste one on a PK?


If you have someone who you believe will be a good kicker for the next 5 years, why not? Most 6th or 7th round draft picks are crapshoots that don't last on the roster for very long anyway.

Meanwhile, the Vikings are going to pay Bailey a pretty penny. If they had spent a 6th getting a good kicker in (not saying there was one, just if), they'd probably shave over a million if not more from their cap spend this season.
RE: RE: Eh, drafting a kicker is fine  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2018 7:32 pm : link
In comment 14082105 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14082102 jcn56 said:


Quote:


Just do it Rds 6 or 7. Drafting a kicker in the 1st or 2nd round if you're not the corpse of Al Davis has gone out of style.



Maybe if you have 12 picks. But if you have 7 picks in the Draft, why waste one on a PK?


If you have a Gostkowski a 4th round pick is better spent on him than anyone the Giants have drafted in the 4th round in a decade. Since Barry Cofield in 2006.

Look at the draft success chart sometime.

People way overvalue draft picks. I'd use anything 5th or later on a K easy. I wouldn't use a 2nd on one. or a 1st - that's crazy.

3rd maybe, if this kicker was special in some way, but 4th or later. sure.

The only time it looks bad is when the kicker sucks, like Aguayo.
RE: Ah, gotta love kicking families  
Boy Cord : 9/17/2018 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14082094 Anakim said:
Quote:
The Carlsons
The Aguayos
The Gramaticas


Carlson had a brother in the NFL??
RE: RE: Ah, gotta love kicking families  
Anakim : 9/17/2018 11:30 pm : link
In comment 14082395 Boy Cord said:
Quote:
In comment 14082094 Anakim said:


Quote:


The Carlsons
The Aguayos
The Gramaticas



Carlson had a brother in the NFL??


Nah, not the NFL...yet. His brother is the PK at Auburn.
RE: RE: RE: Eh, drafting a kicker is fine  
Anakim : 9/17/2018 11:41 pm : link
In comment 14082195 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14082105 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14082102 jcn56 said:


Quote:


Just do it Rds 6 or 7. Drafting a kicker in the 1st or 2nd round if you're not the corpse of Al Davis has gone out of style.



Maybe if you have 12 picks. But if you have 7 picks in the Draft, why waste one on a PK?



If you have a Gostkowski a 4th round pick is better spent on him than anyone the Giants have drafted in the 4th round in a decade. Since Barry Cofield in 2006.

Look at the draft success chart sometime.

People way overvalue draft picks. I'd use anything 5th or later on a K easy. I wouldn't use a 2nd on one. or a 1st - that's crazy.

3rd maybe, if this kicker was special in some way, but 4th or later. sure.

The only time it looks bad is when the kicker sucks, like Aguayo.



Not even, PJ.

Mike Nugent was a second rounder of the Jets and only spent 3 years with the team.

Jake Elliott was a fifth rounder of the Bengals and didn't even make the 53-man roster (he's done pretty good for the Eagles though).

Harrison Butker didn't even play a game for the Panthers, who drafted him in the seventh round

Zach Hocker was a seventh rounder...never played for the team that drafted him.

Nate Freese didn't even last a year on the team that drafted him in the seventh round.

Caleb Sturgis was a fifth rounder and only lasted two seasons with the team that drafted him.

Roberto Aguayo...yep.

Zane Gonzalez...yep.

Daniel Carlson...yep
Right, but how many 7th rounders pan out anyway?  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 11:43 pm : link
Drafting a PK/P in the 7th round and having them end up as busts is really no different than picking any other position, at that point in the draft it's a complete crapshoot.
RE: Right, but how many 7th rounders pan out anyway?  
Anakim : 9/17/2018 11:57 pm : link
In comment 14082663 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Drafting a PK/P in the 7th round and having them end up as busts is really no different than picking any other position, at that point in the draft it's a complete crapshoot.


Not a lot, but the point is you should be trying to fill out your roster as the draft goes on. Take guys who have potential; guys who would've gone higher had it not been for injuries or off-the-field stuff; guys who will contribute on Special Teams and worth developing. There's no need to waste it on a PK.
Anakim  
pjcas18 : 9/18/2018 7:18 am : link
many of those kickers wound up good though. As Giants fans we should know that kickers sometimes take a year to acclimate to the pro game.

what do you think the hit rate is on drafted kickers? 50%? And of course there are outliers like Nugent and Aguayo - who I said I did not support, but IMO 4th round and later the success rate on a K is greater than almost any other position. 7th round, to jcn's point is almost a no-brainer, kicker makes more sense than almost any other position, problem is the best kicker for that draft are no longer around by the 7th and my guess is only a couple - three kickers are drafted each year.

of course the impact of those other positions is greater if you hit, but most of the time you don't.

For reference again, here is a 10-year study on draft success by round and position. Success is simply defined by starting more than 50% of your games with no subjectivity placed on quality. Of course kickers can't be included based on that criteria, but it's a data point.

So, if you're telling me in the 4th round I can take a DB who has an 11% chance of becoming "successful" or a K with a 50% chance, I don't fault a team for taking a K.

Historic Success Chart

The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:

1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)

2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)

5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)

7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)
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