for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Watch the old Eli Highlights

Giantimistic : 9/17/2018 4:51 pm
I went back and watch a lot of Eli's old clips when he had a better oline. I don't think he has lost that much. I think the difference is in the past he would stand in and take the hits because he knew where the blitz or pressure was coming from. He knew that he was going to get hit it was just predictable.

He now doesn't know on which play where the oline is going to fail. So even if he diagnosis the blitz right, there is still surprise people in his face because of mess ups.

Also, when the Giants were killing it with Gilbride, Eli used to take 5 and 7 step drops. That was when he had his oline. Gilbride even talked about what failed about his system was they never upgraded the oline. All the option routes took time to develop and defenses couldn't guard them after a few seconds.

Eli's strength is figuring out where the open pass will be and where the pressure is coming from. That is minimized with an oline constantly getting beat.

Look at the old highlights and at the great plays he made when he had a pocket--it wasn't always clean--but it is nothing like he has now. Its like a jailbreak each play. He doesn't get a chance to really go through his progressions which he is usually great at as well.

Eli doesn't need a perfect pocket, he just needs a fighting chance which this team has failed to give him the past 6 years. I think Eli can still be a similar player to when we were winning which lets not forget always included a few awful games and about 2-3 throws a game that could be intercepted and that he shouldn't have thrown. We also know he is a different animal in the playoffs. The margin of error now is so small with this time that Eli cannot be Eli which was always the great with bad sprinkled in. He always missed some throws. Now we are upset that he misses some throws on the 1 or 2 chances he gets in the game. You could make his mistakes when you are scoring 30 pts a game and you can miss throws when you are going to get multiple chances. Gilbride used to have Eli throw deep on 3 and 1. We knew if we didn't get it that time we would have more chances.

I really don't know how much Eli has lost, but we cannot make a fair judgement behind this oline. The link below is not the oldest plays, but look at the pockets in these plays that he used to have--he has not seen that in a long time.
Some of his great plays - ( New Window )
You can't be a pocket passer  
Don in DC : 9/17/2018 5:07 pm : link
if there is no pocket.
Good OP  
montanagiant : 9/17/2018 5:08 pm : link
That is wasted on the collective morons that have invaded this website
I agree with most of your points  
JohnF : 9/17/2018 5:17 pm : link
and I think Eli is still an above average QB, but when the FO made the decision to commit to him, the team's #1 priority had to be a significant upgrade of the offensive line...even if it meant losing OBJ to free agency.

You're not going to fix the line this year. What hurt was signing Jonathan Stewart, and the cap hit that involved. That decision lead to moving Brett Jones (for cap relief). That is going to haunt the team all year, because of the loss of depth. (Not that Jones was great, but he was competent, and could fill in at center and guard.)

Fixing this line is a 2-3 year deal at this point. It's not just getting talent, it's having the same guys together. What Minnesota did was unusual, OL builds usually take a lot of time.

I don't know what Coach Shurmur is going to do...right now, every team the Giants play will look at what Dallas did, and
go all out blitzing. The right side of the line has shown no ability to contain a stunt, or a lot of bull rushes. I'll guess he goes 2 TE's, but that will limit the offense significantly, since it takes a lot of the playbook away.

It's going to be a tough year.
...  
christian : 9/17/2018 5:22 pm : link
Manning might be physically shot, but with a devastating pass rush virtually every snap, there's no way to know.
Even if he is not shot, he's 37 and the OL is non-competitive  
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 5:25 pm : link
Eli's going to take the brunt of the heat this year, but this debacle is a massive failing of ownership for insisting on going forward with Eli, Gettleman for misallocating resources, and Shurmur for being unable to prepare the OL for seemingly the simplest stunts and blitzes.
I disagree.  
mittenedman : 9/17/2018 5:38 pm : link
He looks bigger, stronger and more athletic. About what you'd expect.

To me, his last decent year was 2012. I know he had good stats Odell's rookie year but I still didn't think he was playing well.
sorry  
hassan : 9/17/2018 5:43 pm : link
look at his comeback win vs Denver in 2005.

look at how he escapes pressure constantly.

he does nothing remotely close to this anymore.

look at his gilbride tapes. look at him deliver money passes downfield. These are not on his recent tapes.

most importantly he stood and took hits before. now he is checking down.

anyone saying he is the same is selectively watching.
Yes, this is brilliant analysis  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 5:48 pm : link
Look at some old highlight clips on their own and just declare he's the same guy.

Great work!
One word: TRUST  
SHO'NUFF : 9/17/2018 5:59 pm : link
as in, there is none...hasn't been for the last 6 or so years.
his physical decline  
Strahan91 : 9/17/2018 6:05 pm : link
pales in comparison to his mental decline. He's more indecisive than he's ever been, he feels phantom pressure even on plays where he does have a little time and checks down, and he doesn't move his feet as quickly as he once did.

The OL they had was consistently one of the best in the league too. It's not all his fault but he's 37 which means they've run out of time to rebuild the OL.

With a better OL he'd play better sure but the clock has run out. They failed him but the past is the past. It's time to move on.
Unfortunately...  
bw in dc : 9/17/2018 6:05 pm : link
we are seeing two things at once: a oline still in flux and a QB in decline.

Sure, we may see glimpses of the old Eli. But this is setting up where those are going to be more the exception than the rule.
RE: Even if he is not shot, he's 37 and the OL is non-competitive  
Jeffrey : 9/17/2018 6:05 pm : link
In comment 14082011 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Eli's going to take the brunt of the heat this year, but this debacle is a massive failing of ownership for insisting on going forward with Eli, Gettleman for misallocating resources, and Shurmur for being unable to prepare the OL for seemingly the simplest stunts and blitzes.


Agree with almost all of this, but Eli is no victim here. He cannot cheat age and his performance over the past several years shows that. Eli has an ego like all great QBs and you never leave it to them to decide when to stop playing, unless you are willing to blow off several years. Eli’s diminishing skills are the worst possible match for a team with a horrible OL. For those who keep saying what he could still do with a decent OL, the answer is simple—trace him to that team, but the Giants are not going to have a decent OL this year, no matter what skills Eli might still possess.
The #1 thing I see in Old Eli is that his eyes are always  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2018 6:06 pm : link
look downfield, whether is no pressure, some pressure or he is about to be hit.

That does not exist anymore.



I agree with the OP  
exiled : 9/17/2018 6:20 pm : link
But it doesn’t actually matter, even if I assumed he lost NOTHING. He can’t be effective with this line, and this is the line he has.

It’s a dysfunctional personnel. The worst OL/QB combination.

I was hoping a running game might help open up the passing game, absorb some of that pressure. Not so far, anyway.
Agree with your  
BBelle21 : 9/17/2018 6:24 pm : link
Well written post.
RE: Yes, this is brilliant analysis  
Giantimistic : 9/17/2018 6:26 pm : link
In comment 14082039 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Look at some old highlight clips on their own and just declare he's the same guy.

Great work!


That is really what you took out of what I was saying. Sorry you missed my point. I really don't know how much he has lost and I am not saying he hasn't lost much based on the clips. I don't think he is that different--my opinion--but I am not using the tapes to justify it. I said that behind the oline he has had for the past 6 years and currently we can't make a fair judgement. What allowed him to be great is just not there anymore and by the time we get him a good line he really may not have anything left.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/17/2018 6:39 pm : link
If you're just looking at arm strength or looking for obviously physical decline, you probably won't see it because that's not where the major issues are.

Eli is no longer hanging in the pocket the way he used to. He's bailing on routes before they can develop - case in point, the play where Beckham got loose for what would have been an easy score if Eli could have just given the play another 2 seconds or bought that extra time somehow.

That's the difference between a TD that would have changed the complexion of the game and coming away with nothing.

We are never going to see a point where Eli just can't throw a football. I think people are looking for a level of decline that you don't really see.

The guy who played in SF in January of 2012 isn't here anymore. He's just not. And the longer we keep hoping he will come back, the worse it's going to get.
RE: .  
Strahan91 : 9/17/2018 6:41 pm : link
In comment 14082124 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
If you're just looking at arm strength or looking for obviously physical decline, you probably won't see it because that's not where the major issues are.

Eli is no longer hanging in the pocket the way he used to. He's bailing on routes before they can develop - case in point, the play where Beckham got loose for what would have been an easy score if Eli could have just given the play another 2 seconds or bought that extra time somehow.

That's the difference between a TD that would have changed the complexion of the game and coming away with nothing.

We are never going to see a point where Eli just can't throw a football. I think people are looking for a level of decline that you don't really see.

The guy who played in SF in January of 2012 isn't here anymore. He's just not. And the longer we keep hoping he will come back, the worse it's going to get.


That scary thing is it would appear that's exactly what our GM was looking for and didn't see as well.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 9/17/2018 6:50 pm : link
In comment 14082130 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14082124 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


If you're just looking at arm strength or looking for obviously physical decline, you probably won't see it because that's not where the major issues are.

Eli is no longer hanging in the pocket the way he used to. He's bailing on routes before they can develop - case in point, the play where Beckham got loose for what would have been an easy score if Eli could have just given the play another 2 seconds or bought that extra time somehow.

That's the difference between a TD that would have changed the complexion of the game and coming away with nothing.

We are never going to see a point where Eli just can't throw a football. I think people are looking for a level of decline that you don't really see.

The guy who played in SF in January of 2012 isn't here anymore. He's just not. And the longer we keep hoping he will come back, the worse it's going to get.



That scary thing is it would appear that's exactly what our GM was looking for and didn't see as well.


This past offseason I said to myself "well, these guys are being paid money to evaluate this stuff - they have access to film study and stuff that I obviously don't or obviously will not spend the same amount of time analyzing, so - knowing how important this draft/decision were - I have to believe they're very sure Eli has a few good years left in him, because if they're wrong about this, it's going to be a major blunder."

It appears their evaluation yielded the incorrect conclusion. Which is not a good sign for a new regime.

I can't believe we're already back at this point. But here we are.
Eli has not scored 30 points in ANY game since 2015  
elgoman : 9/17/2018 6:56 pm : link
That was 34 games ago. Since then the coach has changed, the line has changed, the receivers have changed, the scheme has changed. Everything has changed but Eli.

Eli is the only constant in this offensive failure. End of story.
We are talking about 33-50 over 6 years  
twostepgiants : 9/17/2018 6:57 pm : link
That’s 83 games.

There’s been 3 HCs.

There has been 4 OCs and 3 different systems.

There has been a 100% change on all offensive players including OL around him more than once.

How long should we give him? What more can be done?
What more can be done?  
Club13 : 9/17/2018 7:47 pm : link
How about giving him an offensive line that can block pass rushers for more than a second of two? He hasn't had one since 2012. That's the other constant, crappy offensive lineman.
Back to the Corner