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Brian Baldinger & #8207;@BaldyNFL 2h2 hours ago .@giants have MAJOR issues with basic assignment football and the fallout is affecting the Coach and the QB. There is ZERO trust that the protection will hold up in any given play. If you don’t think it can’t get worse...??? #BaldyBreakdowns |
He changed his answer. Initially he said we had hats on most stunts.
Just a bit down he replaced most with some.
They need to learn their positions and learn to play together. I doubt they'll be outstanding, but they may make it to adequate... starting around week 6... if the remaining guys avoid season-ending injuries. But there was no reason to expect them to be adequate yet.
Yes, Eli could get killed back there waiting for them to jell.
It's both.
We all spent so much time debating the decision to pass on drafting a QB and many people dug their heels in on one side or the other so deep that if they were on board with keeping Eli, they want to say it's all poor OL play.
If they wanted Darnold (or another QB) to be drafted, they're going to want ti prove that it's Eli.
Dysfunction like this often results from a combination of issues. Which is what we see here.
You have to be able to overcome breakdowns in protection in this league sometimes. Not all of the time. Eli ins't Houdini, and there are times where a play has no chance.
But a guy with a modicum of mobility hits Beckham easily for a TD on the play down the left sideline (I forget what Q it was - beer) and that could have changed the complexion of the game entirely.
Sometimes just a second can make all the difference in this league.
They couldn’t handle basic stunts either. It seriously felt that I was just watching a replay from last seasons opener.
I believe we have now played Dallas 9 times since Marinelli was hired. Our point totals are as follows...
21
28
26
27
20
10
3
10
13
Haven't broken 30 one time and now we have gone 4 games in a row against Dallas without even breaking 13 points.
It's bad.
Trubisky isn't even a major scrambler or runner - but there's a huge, huge difference between having some mobility and having none.
Trubisky isn't even a major scrambler or runner - but there's a huge, huge difference between having some mobility and having none.
Now before the Engram is TE camp come yelling at me, I not disagreeing with you. But right now it may be more important to block someone than making sure Engram is in the correct position.
I simply think that the team is more dangerous with Engram on the field that Latimer if we bring an extra linemen and give away that we are not going to have a tight end.
I know it sucks but I don't see the risk in trying to give Eli time and still have the playmakers out there to make plays and beat coverages.
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I just watched Mitch Trubisky turn a complete pass pro breakdown into a 17 yard run for a first down on 3rd and 6.
Trubisky isn't even a major scrambler or runner - but there's a huge, huge difference between having some mobility and having none.
Yup. Its another weapon that can be deployed to sustain drives and mitigate mistakes in protection.
Yeah, he’s really lighting up the joint tonight.
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In comment 14082214 KerrysFlask said:
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... Is not Hal Hunters fault.
I'm not trying to make him the scapegoat, but if these guys who have playing through high school, college and finally the NFL - where only the best of the best can play - and are STILL screwing up this severely, it has to be coaching. Not even just screwing up, but screwing up so consistently. And everyone is messing up. Not just flowers. In fact, flowers wasnt involved in any of those!
Something he is preaching or teaching has to be beyond confusing....
There are various ways to look at this.
- does the teacher (coach) understand the problem?
- is he able to communicate the solution to his students?
- do the students (players) understand what they are being taught?
- are the players capable of executing the coach's instructions?
I should have added, does the coach understand the problem, and does he have a solution?
Thank you. It’s refreshing to read an analytic approach to an obvious problem without the silly name-calling that is so prevalent in these posts. It seemed like the offensive line was completely confused, perhaps in a way not seen in some time. If they are not picking up the defenders rushing the QB as a consequence of assignment confusion, athleticism becomes almost irrelevant. These plays should be contrasted with those where a lineman’s quickness or strength are inadequate on blocks. In short, there are likely multiple issues, some (many) of which are—or should be—coachable. At this point in time, however, the formula for rendering OBJ and the entire Giants offense impotent is public information for every DC who faces this Giants team. As a consequence, putting up 14-21 points on the Giants is almost certain victory.
No problem buddy
These guys SHOULD get better the longer they play with each other. Losing the starting center for the season (who I assume makes the initial line calls) is a tough loss for an already struggling unit to deal with.
Incidentally, we've been shitty at handling basic twists for a few years now. Not just due to the new coach.
These guys SHOULD get better the longer they play with each other. Losing the starting center for the season (who I assume makes the initial line calls) is a tough loss for an already struggling unit to deal with.
I'm kind of tired of hearing that the line just needs time to gel - because while there's some truth to that, we've been getting sold that line for years now and nothing ever comes of it.
They shouldn't need time to figure out how to execute the basics. Some of these guys are getting paid really good money right now and to not be able to pick up simple stunts and twists is embarrassing.
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were the 5th and 6th pre-season games, except they count in the final win-loss record.
These guys SHOULD get better the longer they play with each other. Losing the starting center for the season (who I assume makes the initial line calls) is a tough loss for an already struggling unit to deal with.
I'm kind of tired of hearing that the line just needs time to gel - because while there's some truth to that, we've been getting sold that line for years now and nothing ever comes of it.
They shouldn't need time to figure out how to execute the basics. Some of these guys are getting paid really good money right now and to not be able to pick up simple stunts and twists is embarrassing.
I see your point but you can't equate the previous group with a brand new one. The fact of it is that our new revamped front office and staff should not be lumped with the shitshow we had last year out of coaching and the last 4 years under Reese
These OL players are very poorly prepared to play and I’m not sure who to blame for that but its not the QB.
I can only think of one QB, Russell Wilson. But even he got sacked 6 times and lost last week.
It is not just this fan base...no other fan base thinks Eli is worth a shit. He is brilliant on a few occasions (two SB runs and 2008 & 2011) and mediocre on most other occasions. Try asking fans of other teams what they think of Eli. Even when the Giants were good, most fans of other teams that I knew thought he was no better than average.
Not blaming Eli for last Sunday. Hard to make plays when the rush gets to your drop before you do, but I do blame him for the inability to get the flats passes out quickly and accurately to the receiver and missing the open pass down field (more in week one than week two).
Not blaming Eli for last Sunday. Hard to make plays when the rush gets to your drop before you do, but I do blame him for the inability to get the flats passes out quickly and accurately to the receiver and missing the open pass down field (more in week one than week two).
I wholeheartedly agree with this. The thing is though that people are already complaining about Eli missing open receivers because he's too eager to check down. Imagine he got those swing passes out even more quickly? He's in a no-win situation with a pretty large contingent on this board.
Saquon & Hernandez were great picks but will still suffer from rookie-itis from time to time. I actually feel better about the OLine after watching this - problems are fixable.
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Not blaming Eli for last Sunday. Hard to make plays when the rush gets to your drop before you do, but I do blame him for the inability to get the flats passes out quickly and accurately to the receiver and missing the open pass down field (more in week one than week two).
I wholeheartedly agree with this. The thing is though that people are already complaining about Eli missing open receivers because he's too eager to check down. Imagine he got those swing passes out even more quickly? He's in a no-win situation with a pretty large contingent on this board.
Think you missed my point. Last Sunday, a few of those passes to Barkley were poorly thrown so Barkley had little chance to make a play. He can't throw deep if the DL is on him in 1.5 secs, of course and he cannot be blamed for that, but he can make an accurate pass to Barkley so he is one v one on a LB.
When you lose by 1 TD and the other team out gains you by only few yards (60+ on one play), then there should have been opportunities to make a play or two to keep a drive alive.
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In comment 14082731 section125 said:
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Not blaming Eli for last Sunday. Hard to make plays when the rush gets to your drop before you do, but I do blame him for the inability to get the flats passes out quickly and accurately to the receiver and missing the open pass down field (more in week one than week two).
I wholeheartedly agree with this. The thing is though that people are already complaining about Eli missing open receivers because he's too eager to check down. Imagine he got those swing passes out even more quickly? He's in a no-win situation with a pretty large contingent on this board.
Think you missed my point. Last Sunday, a few of those passes to Barkley were poorly thrown so Barkley had little chance to make a play. He can't throw deep if the DL is on him in 1.5 secs, of course and he cannot be blamed for that, but he can make an accurate pass to Barkley so he is one v one on a LB.
When you lose by 1 TD and the other team out gains you by only few yards (60+ on one play), then there should have been opportunities to make a play or two to keep a drive alive.
No, I get your point and I agree that his accuracy could and should be better and he might be able to get it to Barkley more quickly. I was just making an observation about how the crowd here who wants to place all blame on Eli would react to him dumping it off even more quickly.
It's probably the right move with the kind of rush he's generally facing, but we would hear choruses of how he's panicking, or staring down the rush, or missing open receivers etc etc etc.
We will be in much better position to judge him as a coach at the end of the season.
Hope he turns out to be what the Giants were expecting when they hired him.
There is a reason that continuity is an element in building o-lines. Doubt this line will ever be great, but it certainly could become functional.
Agree.
Saquon & Hernandez were great picks but will still suffer from rookie-itis from time to time. I actually feel better about the OLine after watching this - problems are fixable.
You're dumbfounded that people are piling on coaching staff for players missing assignments?
Whose job is it to make sure players understand their assignments? That's what the coaches are here for.
If the players can't pick up simple stunts, that's a serious coaching issue. What are they teaching them?
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There is absolutely nothing any QB could do in situations like that.
These OL players are very poorly prepared to play and I’m not sure who to blame for that but its not the QB.
I can only think of one QB, Russell Wilson. But even he got sacked 6 times and lost last week.
And he played a similar game last night except he had an Int on a horrible pass.
It's the O-Line in both examples
Here's my reaction, though - does an NFL lineman really need intensive coaching just to recognize a stunt? Hell, other than Hernandez and Flowers, the other four guys who played Sunday night came from other pro teams. Have they never seen a stunt before?? I can't wrap my head around veteran OL looking that confused and helpless. Boggles the mind.
They were unclear of their responsibilities, either that or they didn't have confidence that their teammate would do the right thing. Four new players working together: Solder, Stewart, Smith, and Omameh screwed up. There were assignment/decision errors. Most likely, this line will get better over time but it needs an infusion of talent as well.
One remedy: run the ball more while the pass blocking schemes get straightened out.
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If the players can't pick up simple stunts, that's a serious coaching issue. What are they teaching them?
Here's my reaction, though - does an NFL lineman really need intensive coaching just to recognize a stunt? Hell, other than Hernandez and Flowers, the other four guys who played Sunday night came from other pro teams. Have they never seen a stunt before?? I can't wrap my head around veteran OL looking that confused and helpless. Boggles the mind.
They really shouldn't need extensive coaching on the basics, but at the same time, it's the coaches job to get these guys on the same page and in sync. There's a lot of miscommunication. Defenders are going unblocked because our guys can't figure out who is supposed to pick up who.
Some of the ways free rushers are getting into the backfield are really startling. We spent a lot of money on Solder/Omameh and a 2nd rounder is significant draft capital. Yet, the line looks just as bad as last year.
Really, really troubling.
I won't use the word "best", because none of them were actually good, but I think Flowers might have been the least bad of the linemen on Sunday. Omameh was absolutely brutal. How many times did he just shuffle around blocking nothing but air? He looked utterly baffled.
How about some of these playmakers make a play versus dropping passes. How about the veteran QB hit on some big play down the field or show better touch in a screen pass to slow down the rush.
God forbid we take advantage of a weakness somewhere in the defense and score some points before halftime..
Secondly, the second you feel your interior or exterior lineman on your hip... blocking the same person... your instinct should be to look to see if someone on the other hip is shooting the gap and then adjust.
Hernandez looks lost. How can you have your head down in the NFL pre-snap.
Secondly, the second you feel your interior or exterior lineman on your hip... blocking the same person... your instinct should be to look to see if someone on the other hip is shooting the gap and then adjust.
Hernandez looks lost. How can you have your head down in the NFL pre-snap.
That’s coaching.