I posted it in another thread - but that 3rd and 6 run for 17 yards is exactly the type of play you need a QB to be able to make in order to sustain drives and score points. And it wasn't Russell Wilson - it was Mitch Trubisky. Not known as a major runner or scrambler. But the ability to move around a bit and the pocket presence just makes such a difference.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
I posted it in another thread - but that 3rd and 6 run for 17 yards is exactly the type of play you need a QB to be able to make in order to sustain drives and score points. And it wasn't Russell Wilson - it was Mitch Trubisky. Not known as a major runner or scrambler. But the ability to move around a bit and the pocket presence just makes such a difference.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
I posted it in another thread - but that 3rd and 6 run for 17 yards is exactly the type of play you need a QB to be able to make in order to sustain drives and score points. And it wasn't Russell Wilson - it was Mitch Trubisky. Not known as a major runner or scrambler. But the ability to move around a bit and the pocket presence just makes such a difference.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
It's the little stuff like that.
Here's the video Trubisky run - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting that.
2 seconds and pressure was coming from both edges. These are the plays where Eli just falls down and takes a sack and the drive is over.
Trubisky stepped up, found a lane and turned it into a positive play.
I can't stress this enough - OL play around the league is poor. You have to be able to overcome it to a certain degree. if the only time you can execute a play is with a perfect, clean pocket and 4-5 seconds to deliver the football, you're playing very low-odds football and are going to lose a lot of games.
I posted it in another thread - but that 3rd and 6 run for 17 yards is exactly the type of play you need a QB to be able to make in order to sustain drives and score points. And it wasn't Russell Wilson - it was Mitch Trubisky. Not known as a major runner or scrambler. But the ability to move around a bit and the pocket presence just makes such a difference.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
Especially for a big guy. His 3 cone was a good CB time and you saw it in thta run with the quick moves. He can throw on the run too. Does miss some wide open throws but I think hell be pretty good and Bears make the playoffs this year.
Has a bit of a problem where he will have at least a couple plays a game where he costs himself and the offense when he tries to by himself move back and around but not up into a collapsing pocket.
His MO is to buy time and wait for defenders to lose their space and allow receivers to get open but its not all wow all the time. Hes had times where he should have run for a short gain or made an aggressive throw up into the pocket and he just habitually doesnt or doesnt feel comfortable.
Every QB including the great ones has an Achilles heel or some even have a few.
and he's missed a number of passes. I don't think he looks that good.
He's 7/9 with a TD pass and no turnovers and the Bears have more points on the board in 5 quarters of football than we do in 8.
I'm not saying Trubisky is an all-pro or an elite player - I am just pointing out the difference it makes when your QB can extend the play.
If you have a QB that is literally incapable of extending a play, you are asking your OL to not just be good, but you're basically asking them to be perfect and in the NFL these days, that's not a realistic expectation.
I posted it in another thread - but that 3rd and 6 run for 17 yards is exactly the type of play you need a QB to be able to make in order to sustain drives and score points. And it wasn't Russell Wilson - it was Mitch Trubisky. Not known as a major runner or scrambler. But the ability to move around a bit and the pocket presence just makes such a difference.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
It's the little stuff like that.
Here's the video Trubisky run - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting that.
2 seconds and pressure was coming from both edges. These are the plays where Eli just falls down and takes a sack and the drive is over.
Trubisky stepped up, found a lane and turned it into a positive play.
I can't stress this enough - OL play around the league is poor. You have to be able to overcome it to a certain degree. if the only time you can execute a play is with a perfect, clean pocket and 4-5 seconds to deliver the football, you're playing very low-odds football and are going to lose a lot of games.
Eli ran for a first down last night and sacrificed his body with a huge hit from the defender. So its not like he doesnt try when he sees the opportunity. Often times there genuinely isnt time. Accompanied with his lack of athleticism and him falling down is the result.
That being said, he definitely doesnt fit this teams mold any longer. We in fact do need a younger QB that possesses the ability to scramble more regular. Not a Lamar Jackson type, but a guy whith enough wheels to get out of there if he absolutely must after a complete break down.
We saw Geno Smith get destroyed by Khalil Mack last year against Oakland. Watching Mack's dominance today, he looks like the same player we saw last year. In perspective then, Geno's performance was very very good. Wilson got strip sacked too.
Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
What the fuck were you watching?
The amount of stupid on here in the last 24 hours is shocking. There is a large contingent of fans who think a qb should be able to avoid 2 untouched pass rushers in some sort of Houdini act..
See the green space right in front of Eli? That's where he should go when blitzed. Eli instead turns the other way directly into the arms of the blitz.
That's called running into a sack. Poor pocket presence Link - ( New Window )
I don't think anyone expects a QB to elude free rushers.
When Shane Smith completely whiffs on a blitz pickup and barely gets a finger on him, there's nothing Eli can do.
But the other extreme here are those who don't think Eli's lack of mobility has no role in the amount of plays getting wrecked and the number of sacks we're giving up.
We are basically at a point where any off-schedule play has no chance. It's a tough way to score points.
The Giants Oline cant even compete. Eli evaded Lawrence. Of course we wont see any gifs of that, but he did evade him.
Trubisky just got a lot of time that we never saw Eli get once.
Trubisky also just rolled out successfully. We all watched Eli roll out and evade defenders as well. Difference being, Trubisky does that and no one was in front of him. Nearly threw a pick. Eli does that and he has either another defender in his face or worse, one of his own linemen falling on him.
Kahlil Mack is just a fucking monster. That was a great trade for the Bears.
Eh, I think its a bit early to say its a great trade. Hes a phenomenal player and will help them, no doubt. But, they mortgaged quite a bit of their future to get him. Two years without a first round pick is a big deal.
If it gets them a Super Bowl Championship, it will definitely be worth it. They made a huge gamble that had better pay off. If it doesnt, that franchise will be in a giant hole for a while.
Kahlil Mack is just a fucking monster. That was a great trade for the Bears.
Eh, I think its a bit early to say its a great trade. Hes a phenomenal player and will help them, no doubt. But, they mortgaged quite a bit of their future to get him. Two years without a first round pick is a big deal.
If it gets them a Super Bowl Championship, it will definitely be worth it. They made a huge gamble that had better pay off. If it doesnt, that franchise will be in a giant hole for a while.
He's a HoF level talent. The odds of getting a player of his caliber with either of those picks will be very slim.
Look at the difference he's making already. He's basically beating the Seahawks by himself.
Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
What the fuck were you watching?
The amount of stupid on here in the last 24 hours is shocking. There is a large contingent of fans who think a qb should be able to avoid 2 untouched pass rushers in some sort of Houdini act..
Your hyperbole won't mask the fact that Eli is not performing when there isn't 2 untouched pass rushers, either. Last year, Eli had the 3rd worst QB rating in the NFL from a clean pocket.
He is still capable of good games as he had three outings last year earn him a PFF game grade of over 80.0, but nothing was above an 82.2. To counter those good games, he had two games under 50.0 and six under 60.0. He ranked 32nd in the league in big-time throw percentage and posted the 30th-best grade from a clean pocket one of PFFs most stable and predictive metrics on quarterbacks and passing.
I know some people don't like PFF, and they aren't flawless, but that is damning. He's just not a good player anymore. I get it, OL aren't doing their jobs well, either. But Eli is 37 years old and he's playing poorly.
Serious question for those who still refuse to acknowledge that Eli is any sort of part of the problem here...
How many more years are you willing to commit to building an OL good enough for him to win with knowing that each additional year we spend doing this, the better the OL will have to be?
We are chasing something we're never going to attain.
The points I am making aren't to prove that Trubisky is better than Eli - he's made bad throws (also hasn't even started 16 games in his career yet, but I digress...)
It's about how important it is to extend drives and be able to survive some poor OL play because you see it a lot of the best QB's in the game do it. It's necessary now.
Eli simply cannot survive it anymore. No way around it. If the pocket breaks down, the play is almost always over. He either just falls down or fails to make the first guy miss.
And again, the Seahawks get a FG before the half because Wilson turns what would have been a sack on 3rd down into a run for a first down and a positive play. That's a sack and drive ender for us
Both teams had drives that ended in points because the QB was able to make a play on 3rd down when the OL broke down.
Ours often don't end in points because we're rarely able to do the same.
RE: Theyre competing and giving up pressure like every Oline does
The Giants Oline cant even compete. Eli evaded Lawrence. Of course we wont see any gifs of that, but he did evade him.
Trubisky just got a lot of time that we never saw Eli get once.
Trubisky also just rolled out successfully. We all watched Eli roll out and evade defenders as well. Difference being, Trubisky does that and no one was in front of him. Nearly threw a pick. Eli does that and he has either another defender in his face or worse, one of his own linemen falling on him.
Not really comparable
Trubisky and Eli are comparable passers. The difference is that Trubisky is more athletic than Eli, and can make time. Trubisky rolls out more because he's a better athlete.
The near pick came after Trubisky fended off a rusher and made a poor decision. But Eli never gets to that point because he never escapes the first defender, who drags him down before the 2nd defender finishes him.
No QB is perfect. Some QBs do things better than others.
Russell Wilson is a helluva QB, and he has looked abysmal this year because he has no OLine. His ability to extend plays is beneficial but without an average OLine its meaningless.
I could care less how elusive Trubisky is. He hasnt proven he is an NFL passer yet. He missed a shit ton of throws against GB. He has been atrocious tonight. You can be elusive all you want, if you cant throw - it dont mean shit.
I don't think there are many people who don't think Eli shares some blame.
I think a lot of the banter is because there are so many vocal about eli being shot, about being the reson the team sucks and you have a small group of posters who literally post nothing but a variation of "Eli Sucks".
Refuting that doesn't mean that Eli doesn't share in the blame - it just means there are quite a few fucking morons around here.
You cannot be serious. He did so to Demarcus Lawrence only to run into a mess in front of him. And Eli is a much better long ball passer than Trubisky. Much better.
Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
What the fuck were you watching?
Fats - where the fuck have these people come from since i've been gone? Wow.
You were solely missed. If I am gonna get ridiculed by someone for my opinion, I want it to be at least from someone who knows what the fuck he is talking about.
I'm not that concerned about Mitch Trubisky - again, it's not about him.
How many more years do you want to spend trying to put an OL good enough in front of Eli Manning? He's getting close to 40 years old now. We've gone through several different personnel combinations, coaches, players... you name it. We still suck. We still can't score. Our offense is going on year 3 of being Odell Beckham or bust.
If Eli is still good enough to win with, why have we lost 14 of the last 17 games he's started?
The OL is bad. A lot of teams are dealing with the same thing. Either you need to find ways to score and overcome it or you can hope the GM figures out a way to mix drafting the right guys with paying the right guys to build a dominant, 2008-esque OL within a tiny window of time.
Has gone on several rants saying that Geno Smith earned the ability to start and played very well against Oakland.
Even went into detail about how the turnovers weren't his fault and that only McAdoo saw the real greatness.
It has been troll central around here.
'
Just wait until you see people saying "touched by the Hand of God" derisively instead of enjoying watching Barkley. Or people who obsess over the term "win now". A long fucking offseason has morphed into a really miserable regular season.
I disagree. We have 1 maybe 2 years with Eli left. Then we replace him. If you go with a guy whos mobile with a questionable arm... it could be worse.
Everyone would love a guy who can do both but they are very few and far between. I dont want a Trubisky, Mariota, Tannehill, Taylor. Of course you can take guys like griffin, Watson, Wentz and risk injury.
Has gone on several rants saying that Geno Smith earned the ability to start and played very well against Oakland.
Even went into detail about how the turnovers weren't his fault and that only McAdoo saw the real greatness.
It has been troll central around here.
'
Just wait until you see people saying "touched by the Hand of God" derisively instead of enjoying watching Barkley. Or people who obsess over the term "win now". A long fucking offseason has morphed into a really miserable regular season.
Why mention my username like I'm wrong? You don't know what you're talking about. I stand by everything I say, and time will prove me right. We could use a mobile QB then and now.
Here's the link showing Eli running into Dallas sacks. Address it so we can prove you know nothing and you can stop misspelling my username. Link - ( New Window )
I disagree. We have 1 maybe 2 years with Eli left. Then we replace him. If you go with a guy whos mobile with a questionable arm... it could be worse.
Everyone would love a guy who can do both but they are very few and far between. I dont want a Trubisky, Mariota, Tannehill, Taylor. Of course you can take guys like griffin, Watson, Wentz and risk injury.
The Rodgers and Wilsons are anonmolies IMO.
You still think we can put an OL good enough to win a Super Bowl with in front of Eli within 2 years?
If your answer is no, we should have moved on. What are we waiting another 2 years for?
I love Eli and don't want it to come to this - but the offense has been putrid for a while now. At some point the QB needs to share some of the blame. We're running out of other things to point the finger at and he's the constant.
Nothing Trubisky could do to evade that. Athletic QB, Mobile QB, pocket passer, 9 times out of 10, the QB is getting sacked there. Eli was dealing with that all night long. Any QB behind this Oline will be in trouble.
about Geno Fucking Smith, not sacks against Dallas you fucking moron
They're all connected, you fuckin faggot. If I'm right about Dallas and you can't explain because your'e fuckin stupid, then what makes you think you can explain Geno Smith? Shut up clown
The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
I WISH we would let Eli go so he can to a better team and do what Warner did with Cardinals just to show you clowns he isnt the problem.
Warner was a couple of years younger at the time. Where is Eli going at this point? Miami or Denver? Maybe but Im skeptical... What other team doesnt have a young high pick waiting in the wings or one theyre not giving up on for Eli Manning at this point in his career? I cant think of a single one.
The thing that continues to escape detection for most...
view is still that the OL is more of a problem than Eli. As Baldinger showed, the OL frequently doesn't even know it's blocking assignments. Rushers frequently come free as a result, sometimes more than one. The pocket often collapses through the middle and around the edges at the same time. Barkley is also frequently met in the backfield by multiple defenders.
But Eli is completely immobile. A QB has to be mobile in the NFL today because DL are so much bigger and faster than even 10 years ago. My concern is that Eli has already been so badly battered that he's effectively David Carr, and can no longer produce well enough even when there is no pressure.
I don't blame Eli. He's taken a pounding. As great as his career has been, it would have been even greater if he'd just had better OL.
Wilson's weapons are blanketed and he's looking for completions. That's not the same thing as Eli misreading the field or checking down because he sees shadows. They look alike but they're not the same.
Wilson's weapons are blanketed and he's looking for completions. That's not the same thing as Eli misreading the field or checking down because he sees shadows. They look alike but they're not the same.
The Bears are going to be a top 5 defense this year with Mack there. So, as bad as Seattle's OL is and as much as we want to talk about Wilson's inability to make anything happen - the Bears defense also deserves some credit. They're not giving him anything whatsoever.
Mack is relentless and they're just blowing off the edges on nearly every pass play.
The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
Youre concentrating on Eli. It doesnt matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You cant win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with whos our next OL than who are next qb is.
The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
Who are you?
Anyway - yeah, my baseball fandom is totally relevant to this discussion. Great point.
Maybe try countering with something worthy of discussion next time?
Youre concentrating on Eli. It doesnt matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You cant win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with whos our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Youre concentrating on Eli. It doesnt matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You cant win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with whos our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
RE: RE: RE: Boy Russell sucks. He can't avoid untouched blitzers and move the team
Wilson's weapons are blanketed and he's looking for completions. That's not the same thing as Eli misreading the field or checking down because he sees shadows. They look alike but they're not the same.
Wilson truly has nowhere to go
Its the same.
Seattle doesn't have weapons like we do. They have a gadget receiver in Lockett and a slow big receiver in Marshall. We have the best receiver in the league, top 5 receiving tight end in the league, etc.
Seriously, which other team would want Eli? Still think the Jags
would rather have Eli than Bortles? Outside NY, the perception of Eli is pretty bad. Of course we NYG diehards insist Eli still has it and we are but a couple of OLs away, but how many around the league actually share that view?
At this point, who cares whats the bigger issue? The line sucks, Eli is a statue, erratic and not looking to make plays, and we are staring at another 4-12 season after a disastrous 3-13 year. Everything blows, season is almost over right out of the gate. Whats the point of sitting here and mocking each other when our team is a total embarrassment?
Lets build for future. And I dont see how an aging QB with big cap numbers and incapable of changing the outlook of the team fits into the picture.
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
The Eli defenders and bashers make the most noise but the truth is it can both be true that Eli can still be effective with a decent to good OL and thats its time to move on. Eli isnt what he was and the game has changed which exacerbates the problem. That problem is almost certainly OL play.
BUT its not 2014 or 2015 or even 2016. It sucks to move on from the guy whos given us his all for so long which included 2 rings and dozens of heroic performances. The time to fix things has come and gone and thanks to Reese and friends we still have a horrific offensive line and a quarterback thats 37. The start to the season is so painful because many of us convinced ourselves we could possibly make one more run that we feel weve been robbed of for 5+ years.
I'm wondering if part of the reason they don't want to bring in a young QB yet is they don't want to put him behind this crap fest OL. They'd rather build a line that gives him at least a chance to develop. They figure win with Eli, or don't, but while we see if we get pieces in place don't damage a young QB trying to learn by putting him out there with this OL. You might end up with a Carr in TX. I may be giving them too much credit here, but perhaps...
Youre concentrating on Eli. It doesnt matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You cant win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with whos our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
The Giants are spending the fifth least of all teams in the NFL on their o-line this year.
They need to invest much more. Even next year when Solder's salary shots way up they are still in the bottom half.
Youre concentrating on Eli. It doesnt matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You cant win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with whos our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
We could use the cap dollars anywhere, really.
My point is - this team is clearly not a Super Bowl contender or anything remotely close. So, why not get a jump on the next QB now?
The only way this plan made sense was if we were going to be a playoff team this year. I think we can safely put that to bed even now. The offense is still terrible and still can't score.
We're paying 22M for a QB on a team that before couldn't break 30 points... now we can't break 20!
Do we need to wait until we can't break 10 points to decide maybe it's time to move on?
I'm just not sure what the plan is long-term. Another "go for it" year next year if this doesn't work?
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasnt given us anything.
Watching what happened on the Oline wont make me throw Eli under the bus. Especially when hes battling and when analysts are showing how alarmingly bad the Oline was.
RE: RE: RE: Boy Russell sucks. He can't avoid untouched blitzers and move the team
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
You said no one was saying it, when it's been on this site all day.
I'm wondering if part of the reason they don't want to bring in a young QB yet is they don't want to put him behind this crap fest OL. They'd rather build a line that gives him at least a chance to develop. They figure win with Eli, or don't, but while we see if we get pieces in place don't damage a young QB trying to learn by putting him out there with this OL. You might end up with a Carr in TX. I may be giving them too much credit here, but perhaps...
I think poor OL play is really just a reality for most teams at this point and I think it's something a lot of young QB's are just going to have to handle to a degree.
The situation Dak Prescott waltzed into is rare and it'x hard to build that in concert with drafting a new QB and having the timing all line up right.
Even if that was the plan - it's not off to a good start. Solder and Omameh both look like poorly spent cap dollars.
We'll see what we get out of Will Hernandez.
We got rid of Jones, so now without Halapio, John Greco is our center. Either he or Brown.
We moved Ereck Flowers to the other side, put two new starters on the left side, and we still can't pick up simple stunts and twists. Not good.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Boy Russell sucks. He can't avoid untouched blitzers and move the team
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasnt given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasnt given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
We had Reese controlling the investing and it has cost us for years.
Always accurate and makes the most of every chance he gets. No one ever says Wilson "sees shadows" or has "David Carr syndrome". No missed reads, no overthrows, no running into sacks. Seattle back in the game
My solution is to move on if this season continues to go down this road. We look like a team that is going to have another top 10 pick this year. Figure out a guy we like and go get him.
We already made our bed for this year, so further Darnold/Barkley debate is irrelevant now because we can't do anything about it.
Cutting Eli frees up 17M in cap dollars next year. That's significant. We need help in other areas.
Work on that and seek his successor.
If this year really keeps going down the toilet like this, give Lauletta a real good look in the 2nd half of the year and see what he's got.
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasnt given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
We had Reese controlling the investing and it has cost us for years.
The point is you just don't just stop because you've failed.
The Giants financially just aren't as invested in their line as most other teams.
And it would probably go a long way in not getting Manning's shit kicked in weekly if they had.
We have a chance to draft a guy who has the same style of Eli or a guy who has the same style as Mariota... who ya taking....
Well, you'd have to tell me which version of Eli it is - because I obviously want the guy who won 2 Super Bowls before I want Marcus Mariota. That's a no brainer. But in 2018, I'd probably take my chances with a healthy Mariota because a guy with legs is the only thing that has a chance behind a line like this.
I'm not hung up on the mobile QB thing as much as it probably sounds I am, though.
A pocket passer is fine - Jared Goff is doing a pretty darn good job right now and he's not taking off running constantly.
There are a lot of intangibles and other things that go into it. The school/offense he came from, etc.
I'm biased, and I don't even know if he'll come out this year - but if the Giants ever have a realistic shot at drafting Tua Tagovailoa, I hope they do. He's a lefty Russell Wilson.
My point is simple, I dont want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, Ill take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Wilson never rattled
elgoman : 10:44 pm : link : reply
Always accurate and makes the most of every chance he gets. No one ever says Wilson "sees shadows" or has "David Carr syndrome". No missed reads, no overthrows, no running into sacks. Seattle back in the game
My point is simple, I dont want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, Ill take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
My point is simple, I dont want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, Ill take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
Last year against the chiefs in OT. 35 yard bomb on 4th down to the 3 to roger Lewis to set up game winning FG.
My point is simple, I dont want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, Ill take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
Last year against the chiefs in OT. 35 yard bomb on 4th down to the 3 to roger Lewis to set up game winning FG.
when we were 2-8 and well out of the playoffs? That mattered to you?
My point is simple, I dont want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, Ill take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
Last year against the chiefs in OT. 35 yard bomb on 4th down to the 3 to roger Lewis to set up game winning FG.
God, I'm not trying to shit on Eli here, but that game was a preseason game for all intents and purposes in terms of importance to us.
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
You said no one was saying it, when it's been on this site all day.
The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
Who are you?
Anyway - yeah, my baseball fandom is totally relevant to this discussion. Great point.
Maybe try countering with something worthy of discussion next time?
Read back in the thread. Plenty of points all centered around the fact that no QB can operate without protection.
And yes your baseball fandom is revalent. You are obviously not someone who can deal with adversity and come out the other end. Just pick a winner. Maybe become a fucking Pats fan.
Seattle also had a top D until their players started dropping like flies.
Their last half of the year was ugly all around.
They had a pretty good run - the window couldn't stay open forever. They got victimized by the cap and a bunch of injuries - they had to choose to pay certain guys and let others go. It's obviously not the same team. Chancellor is gone, Sherman is gone, Bobby Wagner is banged up, Irvin is gone, Bennett is gone.
But Russell Wilson has been playing at a really high level in the face of some pretty shitty OL play. A lot of the hyperbolic, sarcastic comments taking shots at posters who think his mobility is an asset are pretty silly. He's having a bad night and his line is terrible, but their line has been bad for some time now and he's still managed to be a pretty great player.
Care to regale us about more enthralling Geno Smith tales?
The funny thing is I guarantee this jackoff troll would absolutely be all over Eli's ass if he threw a pick 6 and fumbled in exactly the same way Wilson did on back to back drives with the game in reach
The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
Who are you?
Anyway - yeah, my baseball fandom is totally relevant to this discussion. Great point.
Maybe try countering with something worthy of discussion next time?
Read back in the thread. Plenty of points all centered around the fact that no QB can operate without protection.
And yes your baseball fandom is revalent. You are obviously not someone who can deal with adversity and come out the other end. Just pick a winner. Maybe become a fucking Pats fan.
Again.. who are you? I don't remember ever discussing my baseball fandom with you once. Ever.
And you're right... I can't deal with adversity.
That's why I'm a Rangers fan who hasn't seen the Stanley Cup lifted since age 9. A Knicks fan who hasn't seen a championship.... ever.
And someone who dealt with the Mets through Generation K, the worst team money could buy, the Wainwright curveball, being at the final game of 2007 AND 2008 in person to watch them put a bow on two horrific collapses, a terrible 2009... 2010... 2011... 2012.... 2013... 2014... a world series run in 2015... a disappointing 2016, a lost 2017...
But you're right. I totally just bail at the first sign of trouble.
Maybe don't worry about who I root for and ask yourself why you care or why it bothers you. I can't even remember conversing with you about baseball on this board a single time.
Any time you feel like contributing something relevant, feel free.
Care to regale us about more enthralling Geno Smith tales?
You're clinically retarded. What part of "Wilson does everything on SEA" don't you understand? What are his circumstances? Who is on the Bears' defense?
You're the worst kind of dick rider. Make sure you kill yourself when Eli leaves NYG before the separation anxiety kills you first.
Fuckin loser feels like it's his soulbound duty to ride Eli's dick into the sunset
Let's be fair to Wilson here - his OL sucked last year too and he was an MVP candidate.
The SEA OL didn't just get bad now. It has been bad. And he was still one of the best players in the entire sport last year.
In fact, he led the league in TD passes.
My point is theres a ton of posters here who seem to think a young QB with mobility solves all this teams problems. A mobile QB is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound. It wont matter who the QB is until the OL is straightened out.
I admire the shit out of Wilson and I think he's one of the better QB's in the game.
Tonight has shown for both teams that below average OL's will result in some poor QB play. It will also end up being Chicago's achilles heel
And I'm also fucking with elogmen for being a complete moron
Nah I know - awful offensive lines are hard to overcome. "Draft a mobile QB" is simplifying it a bit too much, so that's really not what I am suggesting.
Personally, I am just getting to a point where I'm running out of other places to direct the blame. This is now the 3rd coach we've had here with a struggling offense and it just seems like no matter what weapons we add or who we sign or draft to fix the OL, the result is the same.
I think eventually it gets fair to question whether or not Eli is still worth paying what we are paying him if this is the result we're going to see.
If it's an impossible situation for any QB, just put someone cheaper back there and spend more money on the defense.
I just don't see where we're going with this. It doesn't look like the team is any better now than they were before despite all of the turnover and overhaul. Maybe it will get better - but if we aren't good enough to be in the playoff mix this year, I'm not sure what the endgame really is.
Eventually someone has to realize that the "try to build around Eli" approach simply isn't working.
Let's be fair to Wilson here - his OL sucked last year too and he was an MVP candidate.
The SEA OL didn't just get bad now. It has been bad. And he was still one of the best players in the entire sport last year.
In fact, he led the league in TD passes.
My point is theres a ton of posters here who seem to think a young QB with mobility solves all this teams problems. A mobile QB is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound. It wont matter who the QB is until the OL is straightened out.
That definitely won't solve all of the problems.
But it's fair to question whether paying Eli 22M of our cap dollars is still worth it at this point, isn't it?
The issue before was we couldn't score 30 points.
Now we're 2 games in and haven't even hit 20 despite drafting Saquon Barkley, having obj back, Sterling Shepard and Evan Engram.
The line still sucks, but Gettleman spent a lot of money on Solder and Omameh and also used a 2nd rounder to draft Will Hernandez.
Something has to give here.
whenever I watch a seattle game (didn't watch tonight)
Wilson throws a good first read and a nice deep ball, but if that isn't there holds it too long. He makes his OLine look bad at times. When he buys time scrambling and guys get open for the easy pass, he is the best in the league at creating that opportunity. He'll also launch a ball out of bounds at halftime or the end of the game down by more than 8 with no time left to protect his stats.
I don't think his line is bad; it's that the Bears DL is just very good. But SEA doesn't support Wilson like we do Eli with the best receiver in the league, top TE, top HB, top 10 LT, etc.
Let's be fair to Wilson here - his OL sucked last year too and he was an MVP candidate.
The SEA OL didn't just get bad now. It has been bad. And he was still one of the best players in the entire sport last year.
In fact, he led the league in TD passes.
My point is theres a ton of posters here who seem to think a young QB with mobility solves all this teams problems. A mobile QB is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound. It wont matter who the QB is until the OL is straightened out.
That definitely won't solve all of the problems.
But it's fair to question whether paying Eli 22M of our cap dollars is still worth it at this point, isn't it?
The issue before was we couldn't score 30 points.
Now we're 2 games in and haven't even hit 20 despite drafting Saquon Barkley, having obj back, Sterling Shepard and Evan Engram.
The line still sucks, but Gettleman spent a lot of money on Solder and Omameh and also used a 2nd rounder to draft Will Hernandez.
Something has to give here.
Eli has one year left on his deal. If he has a terrible year and the team sucks then you make a decision in the off-season. Bitching about it now accomplishes nothing because theres no one behind him to seriously challenge for the job.
Anyway, I've written the equivalent of a fucking thesis in this thread at this point - could have cleared out my work e-mails 5 times over by now. I think I've made my point - fine if people disagree.
I don't think "get a mobile QB" is the answer.
I just think people need to realize there's a middle ground and that questioning whether or not the decision to stick with Eli was the right one is fair at this point. I get it - we all love Eli. But some of you guys get so defensive at the mere suggestion that Manning is part of the problem and then it just turns into personal attacks and arguing about aspects that don't matter.
Everyone wants the same thing... for the Giants to stop being a fucking joke.
I don't think I have all of the answers. I was on board with their plan, but now that I've seen how it has started to play out, I'm certainly concerned and I think everyone should be.
Doesn't mean it can't or won't get better. I just no longer have the same faith that perhaps maybe I used to. Those 2 Super Bowl runs gave the Giants a lot of passes in my eyes. I tended to believe they knew what they were doing for a long time.
I guess I've lost a bit of that faith recently. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop rooting for the Giants - nor have I once ever suggested that I would. Just tired of watching completely non-competitive seasons. There's nothing worse as a football fan than this hopeless feeling on September 17th that you may already be sunk.
RE: whenever I watch a seattle game (didn't watch tonight)
Wilson throws a good first read and a nice deep ball, but if that isn't there holds it too long. He makes his OLine look bad at times. When he buys time scrambling and guys get open for the easy pass, he is the best in the league at creating that opportunity. He'll also launch a ball out of bounds at halftime or the end of the game down by more than 8 with no time left to protect his stats.
Let's be fair to Wilson here - his OL sucked last year too and he was an MVP candidate.
The SEA OL didn't just get bad now. It has been bad. And he was still one of the best players in the entire sport last year.
In fact, he led the league in TD passes.
My point is theres a ton of posters here who seem to think a young QB with mobility solves all this teams problems. A mobile QB is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound. It wont matter who the QB is until the OL is straightened out.
That definitely won't solve all of the problems.
But it's fair to question whether paying Eli 22M of our cap dollars is still worth it at this point, isn't it?
The issue before was we couldn't score 30 points.
Now we're 2 games in and haven't even hit 20 despite drafting Saquon Barkley, having obj back, Sterling Shepard and Evan Engram.
The line still sucks, but Gettleman spent a lot of money on Solder and Omameh and also used a 2nd rounder to draft Will Hernandez.
Something has to give here.
Eli has one year left on his deal. If he has a terrible year and the team sucks then you make a decision in the off-season. Bitching about it now accomplishes nothing because theres no one behind him to seriously challenge for the job.
If this season turns into a disaster, people have the right to complain. We've seen a lot of putrid football lately. I think we're all getting tired of it.
I don't think his line is bad; it's that the Bears DL is just very good. But SEA doesn't support Wilson like we do Eli with the best receiver in the league, top TE, top HB, top 10 LT, etc.
that Seattle oline was historically bad. And it was.
It looks they are picking up where they left off. I was floored what the didn't do in the draft. They had 9 picks and picked 1 olineman! In the 5th round!
We think Eli has it bad. Wilson really has it bad.
Kahlil Mack is just a fucking monster. That was a great trade for the Bears.
Eh, I think its a bit early to say its a great trade. Hes a phenomenal player and will help them, no doubt. But, they mortgaged quite a bit of their future to get him. Two years without a first round pick is a big deal.
If it gets them a Super Bowl Championship, it will definitely be worth it. They made a huge gamble that had better pay off. If it doesnt, that franchise will be in a giant hole for a while.
He's a HoF level talent. The odds of getting a player of his caliber with either of those picks will be very slim.
Look at the difference he's making already. He's basically beating the Seahawks by himself.
That pretty much proves my point. Mack is one player. Granted a very talented one but, still just one player. On the defensive side of the ball.
Trubiskys been nothing special and, while there are good players on that offense, theyre nothing special. Not to sound like Jim Fassel but, they pushed all of their chips to the center of the table for one very good player hoping that hes the piece that pushes them over the top.
Like I said before, if it brings them even one championship, it will have been worth it. If it doesnt, they mortgaged a hell of a lot of their future for one player. And while he has HOF talent, ask a Bears fan if theyd rather watch a player get inducted into the HOF or watch the team hoist up a 2nd Lombardi.
How people make excuses for other players in the league, yet bash the QB of their suppose favorite team whenever they get a chance. When I say that there are people here who root for Eli, I am dead serious because they would have nothing to post about.
The excuses made for Wilson last night were hysterical. The OLine has nothing to do with the pick 6 or the fumble.... but people have no problem excusing them. If that were Eli, we would have 700 threads looking to tar and feather him. And this geno Smith fan who is using words like faggot and retarded should be instantly banned as he is an obvious dupe.
Russell Wilson was an MVP candidate as recently as last year and he's much younger than Eli - I think it's fair to give him a pass a bit more often because he's proven that he deserves one.
Does anyone doubt that Wilson is a top flight QB in this league?
Who would you take over him outside of Rodgers or Brady?
His line is awful. He also had a poor game last night. it happens. Our QB has been having poor games for the majority of the last 2+ seasons.
Wilson is a much, much better QB than Eli is at this point in time. That doesn't erase anything Eli has accomplished in the past whatsoever. But not a single GM in the NFL would take Eli Manning over Russ right now and no one would even need more than a split second to think about it.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
It's the little stuff like that.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
It's the little stuff like that.
Here's the video
Trubisky run - ( New Window )
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I posted it in another thread - but that 3rd and 6 run for 17 yards is exactly the type of play you need a QB to be able to make in order to sustain drives and score points. And it wasn't Russell Wilson - it was Mitch Trubisky. Not known as a major runner or scrambler. But the ability to move around a bit and the pocket presence just makes such a difference.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
It's the little stuff like that.
Here's the video Trubisky run - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting that.
2 seconds and pressure was coming from both edges. These are the plays where Eli just falls down and takes a sack and the drive is over.
Trubisky stepped up, found a lane and turned it into a positive play.
I can't stress this enough - OL play around the league is poor. You have to be able to overcome it to a certain degree. if the only time you can execute a play is with a perfect, clean pocket and 4-5 seconds to deliver the football, you're playing very low-odds football and are going to lose a lot of games.
Me too
We're looking for an OL that doesn't exist anymore I'm afraid.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
It's the little stuff like that.
Bingo!
His MO is to buy time and wait for defenders to lose their space and allow receivers to get open but its not all wow all the time. Hes had times where he should have run for a short gain or made an aggressive throw up into the pocket and he just habitually doesnt or doesnt feel comfortable.
Every QB including the great ones has an Achilles heel or some even have a few.
He misses some easy throws. His mechanics are still too sloppy to my liking.
He's 7/9 with a TD pass and no turnovers and the Bears have more points on the board in 5 quarters of football than we do in 8.
I'm not saying Trubisky is an all-pro or an elite player - I am just pointing out the difference it makes when your QB can extend the play.
If you have a QB that is literally incapable of extending a play, you are asking your OL to not just be good, but you're basically asking them to be perfect and in the NFL these days, that's not a realistic expectation.
Mack is a beast. This Bears defense is nasty.
I dont want a qb who cant throw.
Announcers that gush over QB's running will flip that around to complain about them not staying in the pocket when they take the brutal hits.
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In comment 14082340 arcarsenal said:
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I posted it in another thread - but that 3rd and 6 run for 17 yards is exactly the type of play you need a QB to be able to make in order to sustain drives and score points. And it wasn't Russell Wilson - it was Mitch Trubisky. Not known as a major runner or scrambler. But the ability to move around a bit and the pocket presence just makes such a difference.
The pass pro totally broke down there. For the Giants, it's a guaranteed sack. For the Bears, it's a 17 yard gain and a drive that resulted in 7 points.
It's the little stuff like that.
Here's the video Trubisky run - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting that.
2 seconds and pressure was coming from both edges. These are the plays where Eli just falls down and takes a sack and the drive is over.
Trubisky stepped up, found a lane and turned it into a positive play.
I can't stress this enough - OL play around the league is poor. You have to be able to overcome it to a certain degree. if the only time you can execute a play is with a perfect, clean pocket and 4-5 seconds to deliver the football, you're playing very low-odds football and are going to lose a lot of games.
Eli ran for a first down last night and sacrificed his body with a huge hit from the defender. So its not like he doesnt try when he sees the opportunity. Often times there genuinely isnt time. Accompanied with his lack of athleticism and him falling down is the result.
That being said, he definitely doesnt fit this teams mold any longer. We in fact do need a younger QB that possesses the ability to scramble more regular. Not a Lamar Jackson type, but a guy whith enough wheels to get out of there if he absolutely must after a complete break down.
Even with a mobile QB
We might have given up 15 sacks.
Even with a mobile QB
Wilson is facing true pressure today & yet generally makes 3-4 players miss + exhausts his options before taking a sack.
Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
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seeing exactly how a shitty OL can derail a drive. Or drives.
Even with a mobile QB
Wilson is facing true pressure today & yet generally makes 3-4 players miss + exhausts his options before taking a sack.
Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
Wha?!?!
We might have given up 15 sacks.
We saw Geno Smith get destroyed by Khalil Mack last year against Oakland. Watching Mack's dominance today, he looks like the same player we saw last year. In perspective then, Geno's performance was very very good. Wilson got strip sacked too.
Exactly right.
What the fuck were you watching?
The Bears are giving up plenty of pressure. Trubisky isn't sitting back in a clean pocket with 5 seconds to throw the ball.
This is the same fuckstick who think Geno Smith played well last year.
Trolling MNF game threads now?
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seeing exactly how a shitty OL can derail a drive. Or drives.
Even with a mobile QB
Wilson is facing true pressure today & yet generally makes 3-4 players miss + exhausts his options before taking a sack.
Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
This is in the top 5 of game responses, right there with BestFeature saying Eli quit.
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Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
What the fuck were you watching?
The amount of stupid on here in the last 24 hours is shocking. There is a large contingent of fans who think a qb should be able to avoid 2 untouched pass rushers in some sort of Houdini act..
Even with a mobile QB
So far, I think that's fair to say. I do think Russell will make things happen before this game is over, however.
That's called running into a sack. Poor pocket presence
Link - ( New Window )
When Shane Smith completely whiffs on a blitz pickup and barely gets a finger on him, there's nothing Eli can do.
But the other extreme here are those who don't think Eli's lack of mobility has no role in the amount of plays getting wrecked and the number of sacks we're giving up.
We are basically at a point where any off-schedule play has no chance. It's a tough way to score points.
Trubisky just got a lot of time that we never saw Eli get once.
Trubisky also just rolled out successfully. We all watched Eli roll out and evade defenders as well. Difference being, Trubisky does that and no one was in front of him. Nearly threw a pick. Eli does that and he has either another defender in his face or worse, one of his own linemen falling on him.
Not really comparable
Even with a mobile QB
Yeah. Wilson has been sacked 5 times, only has 52 yards, and is getting shut out.
And he's one of the best moving passers in the game.
Eh, I think its a bit early to say its a great trade. Hes a phenomenal player and will help them, no doubt. But, they mortgaged quite a bit of their future to get him. Two years without a first round pick is a big deal.
If it gets them a Super Bowl Championship, it will definitely be worth it. They made a huge gamble that had better pay off. If it doesnt, that franchise will be in a giant hole for a while.
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Kahlil Mack is just a fucking monster. That was a great trade for the Bears.
Eh, I think its a bit early to say its a great trade. Hes a phenomenal player and will help them, no doubt. But, they mortgaged quite a bit of their future to get him. Two years without a first round pick is a big deal.
If it gets them a Super Bowl Championship, it will definitely be worth it. They made a huge gamble that had better pay off. If it doesnt, that franchise will be in a giant hole for a while.
He's a HoF level talent. The odds of getting a player of his caliber with either of those picks will be very slim.
Look at the difference he's making already. He's basically beating the Seahawks by himself.
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Christ
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Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
What the fuck were you watching?
The amount of stupid on here in the last 24 hours is shocking. There is a large contingent of fans who think a qb should be able to avoid 2 untouched pass rushers in some sort of Houdini act..
Your hyperbole won't mask the fact that Eli is not performing when there isn't 2 untouched pass rushers, either. Last year, Eli had the 3rd worst QB rating in the NFL from a clean pocket.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-what-to-expect-from-eli-manning-in-2018
I know some people don't like PFF, and they aren't flawless, but that is damning. He's just not a good player anymore. I get it, OL aren't doing their jobs well, either. But Eli is 37 years old and he's playing poorly.
How many more years are you willing to commit to building an OL good enough for him to win with knowing that each additional year we spend doing this, the better the OL will have to be?
We are chasing something we're never going to attain.
The points I am making aren't to prove that Trubisky is better than Eli - he's made bad throws (also hasn't even started 16 games in his career yet, but I digress...)
It's about how important it is to extend drives and be able to survive some poor OL play because you see it a lot of the best QB's in the game do it. It's necessary now.
Eli simply cannot survive it anymore. No way around it. If the pocket breaks down, the play is almost always over. He either just falls down or fails to make the first guy miss.
And again, the Seahawks get a FG before the half because Wilson turns what would have been a sack on 3rd down into a run for a first down and a positive play. That's a sack and drive ender for us
Both teams had drives that ended in points because the QB was able to make a play on 3rd down when the OL broke down.
Ours often don't end in points because we're rarely able to do the same.
Trubisky just got a lot of time that we never saw Eli get once.
Trubisky also just rolled out successfully. We all watched Eli roll out and evade defenders as well. Difference being, Trubisky does that and no one was in front of him. Nearly threw a pick. Eli does that and he has either another defender in his face or worse, one of his own linemen falling on him.
Not really comparable
Trubisky and Eli are comparable passers. The difference is that Trubisky is more athletic than Eli, and can make time. Trubisky rolls out more because he's a better athlete.
The near pick came after Trubisky fended off a rusher and made a poor decision. But Eli never gets to that point because he never escapes the first defender, who drags him down before the 2nd defender finishes him.
They were indeed. That call was a travesty and "robbed" is the correct word to describe that.
One of his starting WR's is a guy who wasn't even good enough to play for US.
Doug Baldwin is his best WR and he's not out there. Jimmy Graham is gone (GB)
Paul Richardson is gone. (WSH)
So, there's that too. You think Eli has it bad? Russell Wilson has it worse.
No QB is perfect. Some QBs do things better than others.
Russell Wilson is a helluva QB, and he has looked abysmal this year because he has no OLine. His ability to extend plays is beneficial but without an average OLine its meaningless.
I could care less how elusive Trubisky is. He hasnt proven he is an NFL passer yet. He missed a shit ton of throws against GB. He has been atrocious tonight. You can be elusive all you want, if you cant throw - it dont mean shit.
I think a lot of the banter is because there are so many vocal about eli being shot, about being the reson the team sucks and you have a small group of posters who literally post nothing but a variation of "Eli Sucks".
Refuting that doesn't mean that Eli doesn't share in the blame - it just means there are quite a few fucking morons around here.
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Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
What the fuck were you watching?
Fats - where the fuck have these people come from since i've been gone? Wow.
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Christ
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Eli didn't face actual pressure yesterday when he ran into sacks and had 3-4 seconds in the pocket.
What the fuck were you watching?
Fats - where the fuck have these people come from since i've been gone? Wow.
You were solely missed. If I am gonna get ridiculed by someone for my opinion, I want it to be at least from someone who knows what the fuck he is talking about.
How many more years do you want to spend trying to put an OL good enough in front of Eli Manning? He's getting close to 40 years old now. We've gone through several different personnel combinations, coaches, players... you name it. We still suck. We still can't score. Our offense is going on year 3 of being Odell Beckham or bust.
If Eli is still good enough to win with, why have we lost 14 of the last 17 games he's started?
The OL is bad. A lot of teams are dealing with the same thing. Either you need to find ways to score and overcome it or you can hope the GM figures out a way to mix drafting the right guys with paying the right guys to build a dominant, 2008-esque OL within a tiny window of time.
Has gone on several rants saying that Geno Smith earned the ability to start and played very well against Oakland.
Even went into detail about how the turnovers weren't his fault and that only McAdoo saw the real greatness.
It has been troll central around here.
'
Just wait until you see people saying "touched by the Hand of God" derisively instead of enjoying watching Barkley. Or people who obsess over the term "win now". A long fucking offseason has morphed into a really miserable regular season.
Everyone would love a guy who can do both but they are very few and far between. I dont want a Trubisky, Mariota, Tannehill, Taylor. Of course you can take guys like griffin, Watson, Wentz and risk injury.
The Rodgers and Wilsons are anonmolies IMO.
Has gone on several rants saying that Geno Smith earned the ability to start and played very well against Oakland.
Even went into detail about how the turnovers weren't his fault and that only McAdoo saw the real greatness.
It has been troll central around here.
'
Just wait until you see people saying "touched by the Hand of God" derisively instead of enjoying watching Barkley. Or people who obsess over the term "win now". A long fucking offseason has morphed into a really miserable regular season.
Why mention my username like I'm wrong? You don't know what you're talking about. I stand by everything I say, and time will prove me right. We could use a mobile QB then and now.
Here's the link showing Eli running into Dallas sacks. Address it so we can prove you know nothing and you can stop misspelling my username.
Link - ( New Window )
Everyone would love a guy who can do both but they are very few and far between. I dont want a Trubisky, Mariota, Tannehill, Taylor. Of course you can take guys like griffin, Watson, Wentz and risk injury.
The Rodgers and Wilsons are anonmolies IMO.
You still think we can put an OL good enough to win a Super Bowl with in front of Eli within 2 years?
If your answer is no, we should have moved on. What are we waiting another 2 years for?
I love Eli and don't want it to come to this - but the offense has been putrid for a while now. At some point the QB needs to share some of the blame. We're running out of other things to point the finger at and he's the constant.
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seeing exactly how a shitty OL can derail a drive. Or drives.
Even with a mobile QB
Yeah. Wilson has been sacked 5 times, only has 52 yards, and is getting shut out.
And he's one of the best moving passers in the game.
His best weapon is Brandon Marshall and we didnt even want him back because he couldnt get any separation.
I WISH we would let Eli go so he can to a better team and do what Warner did with Cardinals just to show you clowns he isnt the problem.
They're all connected, you fuckin faggot. If I'm right about Dallas and you can't explain because your'e fuckin stupid, then what makes you think you can explain Geno Smith? Shut up clown
Like 6 minute abs man!
B - see the fucking brain surgeons we've got?
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
Look at this ignoramus pointing out the obvious. HOF QB retires, team declines. Stunning insight
There's a lot of things a poor OL forces teams to do.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
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As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
I WISH we would let Eli go so he can to a better team and do what Warner did with Cardinals just to show you clowns he isnt the problem.
Warner was a couple of years younger at the time. Where is Eli going at this point? Miami or Denver? Maybe but Im skeptical... What other team doesnt have a young high pick waiting in the wings or one theyre not giving up on for Eli Manning at this point in his career? I cant think of a single one.
Not, they're not great. They suck. Save for a handful, there just isn't enough solid OL talent out there to build a strong OL.
But Eli is completely immobile. A QB has to be mobile in the NFL today because DL are so much bigger and faster than even 10 years ago. My concern is that Eli has already been so badly battered that he's effectively David Carr, and can no longer produce well enough even when there is no pressure.
I don't blame Eli. He's taken a pounding. As great as his career has been, it would have been even greater if he'd just had better OL.
Wilson truly has nowhere to go
Wilson truly has nowhere to go
Its the same.
Mack is relentless and they're just blowing off the edges on nearly every pass play.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
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is a pretty good example of what happened once he was let go. The Rams basically nose dived for the next 15 years.
Look at this ignoramus pointing out the obvious. HOF QB retires, team declines. Stunning insight
Warner retired after the rams?
Great insight from you..
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The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
Who are you?
Anyway - yeah, my baseball fandom is totally relevant to this discussion. Great point.
Maybe try countering with something worthy of discussion next time?
Trubinsky has been awful tonight.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
I am as big a fan of Eli's as anyone here and I will be forever grateful to him. He can't play forever. It's just reality.
Well, he just threw a TD pass on a nice rollout to his weak side with a defender in his face.
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Youre concentrating on Eli. It doesnt matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You cant win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with whos our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
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In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
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As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
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Wilson's weapons are blanketed and he's looking for completions. That's not the same thing as Eli misreading the field or checking down because he sees shadows. They look alike but they're not the same.
Wilson truly has nowhere to go
Its the same.
Seattle doesn't have weapons like we do. They have a gadget receiver in Lockett and a slow big receiver in Marshall. We have the best receiver in the league, top 5 receiving tight end in the league, etc.
At this point, who cares whats the bigger issue? The line sucks, Eli is a statue, erratic and not looking to make plays, and we are staring at another 4-12 season after a disastrous 3-13 year. Everything blows, season is almost over right out of the gate. Whats the point of sitting here and mocking each other when our team is a total embarrassment?
Lets build for future. And I dont see how an aging QB with big cap numbers and incapable of changing the outlook of the team fits into the picture.
See I disagree with this. I think the argument is getting a mobile QB because the OLine sucks or improving the OL.
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In comment 14082503 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
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As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
BUT its not 2014 or 2015 or even 2016. It sucks to move on from the guy whos given us his all for so long which included 2 rings and dozens of heroic performances. The time to fix things has come and gone and thanks to Reese and friends we still have a horrific offensive line and a quarterback thats 37. The start to the season is so painful because many of us convinced ourselves we could possibly make one more run that we feel weve been robbed of for 5+ years.
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In comment 14082532 dep026 said:
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Youre concentrating on Eli. It doesnt matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You cant win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with whos our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
The Giants are spending the fifth least of all teams in the NFL on their o-line this year.
They need to invest much more. Even next year when Solder's salary shots way up they are still in the bottom half.
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In comment 14082532 dep026 said:
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Youre concentrating on Eli. It doesnt matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You cant win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with whos our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
We could use the cap dollars anywhere, really.
My point is - this team is clearly not a Super Bowl contender or anything remotely close. So, why not get a jump on the next QB now?
The only way this plan made sense was if we were going to be a playoff team this year. I think we can safely put that to bed even now. The offense is still terrible and still can't score.
We're paying 22M for a QB on a team that before couldn't break 30 points... now we can't break 20!
Do we need to wait until we can't break 10 points to decide maybe it's time to move on?
I'm just not sure what the plan is long-term. Another "go for it" year next year if this doesn't work?
So show me the last time it happened.
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In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
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As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
Wrong, It was said multiple times last night in the game thread.
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In comment 14082503 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
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As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Thank you
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In comment 14082509 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 14082503 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
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As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
You said no one was saying it, when it's been on this site all day.
I think poor OL play is really just a reality for most teams at this point and I think it's something a lot of young QB's are just going to have to handle to a degree.
The situation Dak Prescott waltzed into is rare and it'x hard to build that in concert with drafting a new QB and having the timing all line up right.
Even if that was the plan - it's not off to a good start. Solder and Omameh both look like poorly spent cap dollars.
We'll see what we get out of Will Hernandez.
We got rid of Jones, so now without Halapio, John Greco is our center. Either he or Brown.
We moved Ereck Flowers to the other side, put two new starters on the left side, and we still can't pick up simple stunts and twists. Not good.
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In comment 14082503 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
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As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
Wrong, It was said multiple times last night in the game thread.
This isn't the game thread. It serves no purpose here.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
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But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasnt given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
We had Reese controlling the investing and it has cost us for years.
My solution is to move on if this season continues to go down this road. We look like a team that is going to have another top 10 pick this year. Figure out a guy we like and go get him.
We already made our bed for this year, so further Darnold/Barkley debate is irrelevant now because we can't do anything about it.
Cutting Eli frees up 17M in cap dollars next year. That's significant. We need help in other areas.
Work on that and seek his successor.
If this year really keeps going down the toilet like this, give Lauletta a real good look in the 2nd half of the year and see what he's got.
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In comment 14082563 dep026 said:
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But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasnt given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
We had Reese controlling the investing and it has cost us for years.
The point is you just don't just stop because you've failed.
The Giants financially just aren't as invested in their line as most other teams.
And it would probably go a long way in not getting Manning's shit kicked in weekly if they had.
We have a chance to draft a guy who has the same style of Eli or a guy who has the same style as Mariota... who ya taking....
We have a chance to draft a guy who has the same style of Eli or a guy who has the same style as Mariota... who ya taking....
Well, you'd have to tell me which version of Eli it is - because I obviously want the guy who won 2 Super Bowls before I want Marcus Mariota. That's a no brainer. But in 2018, I'd probably take my chances with a healthy Mariota because a guy with legs is the only thing that has a chance behind a line like this.
I'm not hung up on the mobile QB thing as much as it probably sounds I am, though.
A pocket passer is fine - Jared Goff is doing a pretty darn good job right now and he's not taking off running constantly.
There are a lot of intangibles and other things that go into it. The school/offense he came from, etc.
I'm biased, and I don't even know if he'll come out this year - but if the Giants ever have a realistic shot at drafting Tua Tagovailoa, I hope they do. He's a lefty Russell Wilson.
It's like elogman can't even troll well!
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
Did Russell Wilson just quit on the Seahawks?
elgoman : 10:44 pm : link : reply
Always accurate and makes the most of every chance he gets. No one ever says Wilson "sees shadows" or has "David Carr syndrome". No missed reads, no overthrows, no running into sacks. Seattle back in the game
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
It's like elogman can't even troll well!
Hey he stopped watching football once Warner retired from the rams.
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My point is simple, I dont want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, Ill take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
Last year against the chiefs in OT. 35 yard bomb on 4th down to the 3 to roger Lewis to set up game winning FG.
It's like elogman can't even troll well!
You ran away when I asked you explain why Eli runs into sacks, bitch boy. Wilson carries that SEA team with no weapons; OBJ carries ours with no QB
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.
Did Russell Wilson just quit on the Seahawks?
Yeah, making a mistake is quitting...
Doesnt matter who you are. A shitty OLine will kill all great QBs.
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In comment 14082593 dep026 said:
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My point is simple, I dont want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, Ill take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
Last year against the chiefs in OT. 35 yard bomb on 4th down to the 3 to roger Lewis to set up game winning FG.
Carrying them right to 0-2 just like the Giants
If they can keep this group together, that defense is going to take them deep into the playoffs.
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In comment 14082593 dep026 said:
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My point is simple, I dont want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, Ill take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
Last year against the chiefs in OT. 35 yard bomb on 4th down to the 3 to roger Lewis to set up game winning FG.
God, I'm not trying to shit on Eli here, but that game was a preseason game for all intents and purposes in terms of importance to us.
The SEA OL didn't just get bad now. It has been bad. And he was still one of the best players in the entire sport last year.
In fact, he led the league in TD passes.
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In comment 14082550 schabadoo said:
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In comment 14082509 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 14082503 BigBlue4You09 said:
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In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
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As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here hes a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
You said no one was saying it, when it's been on this site all day.
Exactly!!
Their last half of the year was ugly all around.
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Wilson carries that SEA team with no weapons;
Carrying them right to 0-2 just like the Giants
That's not Wilson's fault but keep laughing from your trailer park. Why does Eli run into sacks, Fatass from Charlotte?
Care to regale us about more enthralling Geno Smith tales?
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In comment 14082507 arcarsenal said:
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The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
Who are you?
Anyway - yeah, my baseball fandom is totally relevant to this discussion. Great point.
Maybe try countering with something worthy of discussion next time?
Read back in the thread. Plenty of points all centered around the fact that no QB can operate without protection.
And yes your baseball fandom is revalent. You are obviously not someone who can deal with adversity and come out the other end. Just pick a winner. Maybe become a fucking Pats fan.
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Yep. More heavy lifting by Wilson!
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Wilson carries that SEA team with no weapons;
Carrying them right to 0-2 just like the Giants
That's not Wilson's fault but keep laughing from your trailer park. Why does Eli run into sacks, Fatass from Charlotte?
How is Wilson not at fault? He literally just threw a pick 6 down 7 and fumbled in consecutive possessions.
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Yep. More heavy lifting by Wilson!
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Wilson carries that SEA team with no weapons;
Carrying them right to 0-2 just like the Giants
That's not Wilson's fault but keep laughing from your trailer park. Why does Eli run into sacks, Fatass from Charlotte?
Youre embarrassing yourself left and right. Just stop, Wilson was worse than Eli tonight
Their last half of the year was ugly all around.
They had a pretty good run - the window couldn't stay open forever. They got victimized by the cap and a bunch of injuries - they had to choose to pay certain guys and let others go. It's obviously not the same team. Chancellor is gone, Sherman is gone, Bobby Wagner is banged up, Irvin is gone, Bennett is gone.
But Russell Wilson has been playing at a really high level in the face of some pretty shitty OL play. A lot of the hyperbolic, sarcastic comments taking shots at posters who think his mobility is an asset are pretty silly. He's having a bad night and his line is terrible, but their line has been bad for some time now and he's still managed to be a pretty great player.
Care to regale us about more enthralling Geno Smith tales?
The funny thing is I guarantee this jackoff troll would absolutely be all over Eli's ass if he threw a pick 6 and fumbled in exactly the same way Wilson did on back to back drives with the game in reach
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In comment 14082523 BlueHurricane said:
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In comment 14082507 arcarsenal said:
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The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
Who are you?
Anyway - yeah, my baseball fandom is totally relevant to this discussion. Great point.
Maybe try countering with something worthy of discussion next time?
Read back in the thread. Plenty of points all centered around the fact that no QB can operate without protection.
And yes your baseball fandom is revalent. You are obviously not someone who can deal with adversity and come out the other end. Just pick a winner. Maybe become a fucking Pats fan.
Again.. who are you? I don't remember ever discussing my baseball fandom with you once. Ever.
And you're right... I can't deal with adversity.
That's why I'm a Rangers fan who hasn't seen the Stanley Cup lifted since age 9. A Knicks fan who hasn't seen a championship.... ever.
And someone who dealt with the Mets through Generation K, the worst team money could buy, the Wainwright curveball, being at the final game of 2007 AND 2008 in person to watch them put a bow on two horrific collapses, a terrible 2009... 2010... 2011... 2012.... 2013... 2014... a world series run in 2015... a disappointing 2016, a lost 2017...
But you're right. I totally just bail at the first sign of trouble.
Maybe don't worry about who I root for and ask yourself why you care or why it bothers you. I can't even remember conversing with you about baseball on this board a single time.
Any time you feel like contributing something relevant, feel free.
Tonight has shown for both teams that below average OL's will result in some poor QB play. It will also end up being Chicago's achilles heel
And I'm also fucking with elogmen for being a complete moron
Care to regale us about more enthralling Geno Smith tales?
You're clinically retarded. What part of "Wilson does everything on SEA" don't you understand? What are his circumstances? Who is on the Bears' defense?
You're the worst kind of dick rider. Make sure you kill yourself when Eli leaves NYG before the separation anxiety kills you first.
Fuckin loser feels like it's his soulbound duty to ride Eli's dick into the sunset
The SEA OL didn't just get bad now. It has been bad. And he was still one of the best players in the entire sport last year.
In fact, he led the league in TD passes.
My point is theres a ton of posters here who seem to think a young QB with mobility solves all this teams problems. A mobile QB is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound. It wont matter who the QB is until the OL is straightened out.
Tonight has shown for both teams that below average OL's will result in some poor QB play. It will also end up being Chicago's achilles heel
And I'm also fucking with elogmen for being a complete moron
Nah I know - awful offensive lines are hard to overcome. "Draft a mobile QB" is simplifying it a bit too much, so that's really not what I am suggesting.
Personally, I am just getting to a point where I'm running out of other places to direct the blame. This is now the 3rd coach we've had here with a struggling offense and it just seems like no matter what weapons we add or who we sign or draft to fix the OL, the result is the same.
I think eventually it gets fair to question whether or not Eli is still worth paying what we are paying him if this is the result we're going to see.
If it's an impossible situation for any QB, just put someone cheaper back there and spend more money on the defense.
I just don't see where we're going with this. It doesn't look like the team is any better now than they were before despite all of the turnover and overhaul. Maybe it will get better - but if we aren't good enough to be in the playoff mix this year, I'm not sure what the endgame really is.
Eventually someone has to realize that the "try to build around Eli" approach simply isn't working.
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Let's be fair to Wilson here - his OL sucked last year too and he was an MVP candidate.
The SEA OL didn't just get bad now. It has been bad. And he was still one of the best players in the entire sport last year.
In fact, he led the league in TD passes.
My point is theres a ton of posters here who seem to think a young QB with mobility solves all this teams problems. A mobile QB is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound. It wont matter who the QB is until the OL is straightened out.
That definitely won't solve all of the problems.
But it's fair to question whether paying Eli 22M of our cap dollars is still worth it at this point, isn't it?
The issue before was we couldn't score 30 points.
Now we're 2 games in and haven't even hit 20 despite drafting Saquon Barkley, having obj back, Sterling Shepard and Evan Engram.
The line still sucks, but Gettleman spent a lot of money on Solder and Omameh and also used a 2nd rounder to draft Will Hernandez.
Something has to give here.
elgoman : 11:30 pm : link : reply
I don't think his line is bad;
I did a spit take on that pile of manure.
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In comment 14082617 arcarsenal said:
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Let's be fair to Wilson here - his OL sucked last year too and he was an MVP candidate.
The SEA OL didn't just get bad now. It has been bad. And he was still one of the best players in the entire sport last year.
In fact, he led the league in TD passes.
My point is theres a ton of posters here who seem to think a young QB with mobility solves all this teams problems. A mobile QB is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound. It wont matter who the QB is until the OL is straightened out.
That definitely won't solve all of the problems.
But it's fair to question whether paying Eli 22M of our cap dollars is still worth it at this point, isn't it?
The issue before was we couldn't score 30 points.
Now we're 2 games in and haven't even hit 20 despite drafting Saquon Barkley, having obj back, Sterling Shepard and Evan Engram.
The line still sucks, but Gettleman spent a lot of money on Solder and Omameh and also used a 2nd rounder to draft Will Hernandez.
Something has to give here.
Eli has one year left on his deal. If he has a terrible year and the team sucks then you make a decision in the off-season. Bitching about it now accomplishes nothing because theres no one behind him to seriously challenge for the job.
I don't think "get a mobile QB" is the answer.
I just think people need to realize there's a middle ground and that questioning whether or not the decision to stick with Eli was the right one is fair at this point. I get it - we all love Eli. But some of you guys get so defensive at the mere suggestion that Manning is part of the problem and then it just turns into personal attacks and arguing about aspects that don't matter.
Everyone wants the same thing... for the Giants to stop being a fucking joke.
I don't think I have all of the answers. I was on board with their plan, but now that I've seen how it has started to play out, I'm certainly concerned and I think everyone should be.
Doesn't mean it can't or won't get better. I just no longer have the same faith that perhaps maybe I used to. Those 2 Super Bowl runs gave the Giants a lot of passes in my eyes. I tended to believe they knew what they were doing for a long time.
I guess I've lost a bit of that faith recently. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop rooting for the Giants - nor have I once ever suggested that I would. Just tired of watching completely non-competitive seasons. There's nothing worse as a football fan than this hopeless feeling on September 17th that you may already be sunk.
I agree with all this.
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In comment 14082637 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14082617 arcarsenal said:
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Let's be fair to Wilson here - his OL sucked last year too and he was an MVP candidate.
The SEA OL didn't just get bad now. It has been bad. And he was still one of the best players in the entire sport last year.
In fact, he led the league in TD passes.
My point is theres a ton of posters here who seem to think a young QB with mobility solves all this teams problems. A mobile QB is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound. It wont matter who the QB is until the OL is straightened out.
That definitely won't solve all of the problems.
But it's fair to question whether paying Eli 22M of our cap dollars is still worth it at this point, isn't it?
The issue before was we couldn't score 30 points.
Now we're 2 games in and haven't even hit 20 despite drafting Saquon Barkley, having obj back, Sterling Shepard and Evan Engram.
The line still sucks, but Gettleman spent a lot of money on Solder and Omameh and also used a 2nd rounder to draft Will Hernandez.
Something has to give here.
Eli has one year left on his deal. If he has a terrible year and the team sucks then you make a decision in the off-season. Bitching about it now accomplishes nothing because theres no one behind him to seriously challenge for the job.
If this season turns into a disaster, people have the right to complain. We've seen a lot of putrid football lately. I think we're all getting tired of it.
Bwahahahahahaahahahahahahah, stop I cant 😂😂😂😂😍
It looks they are picking up where they left off. I was floored what the didn't do in the draft. They had 9 picks and picked 1 olineman! In the 5th round!
We think Eli has it bad. Wilson really has it bad.
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In comment 14082385 arcarsenal said:
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Kahlil Mack is just a fucking monster. That was a great trade for the Bears.
Eh, I think its a bit early to say its a great trade. Hes a phenomenal player and will help them, no doubt. But, they mortgaged quite a bit of their future to get him. Two years without a first round pick is a big deal.
If it gets them a Super Bowl Championship, it will definitely be worth it. They made a huge gamble that had better pay off. If it doesnt, that franchise will be in a giant hole for a while.
He's a HoF level talent. The odds of getting a player of his caliber with either of those picks will be very slim.
Look at the difference he's making already. He's basically beating the Seahawks by himself.
That pretty much proves my point. Mack is one player. Granted a very talented one but, still just one player. On the defensive side of the ball.
Trubiskys been nothing special and, while there are good players on that offense, theyre nothing special. Not to sound like Jim Fassel but, they pushed all of their chips to the center of the table for one very good player hoping that hes the piece that pushes them over the top.
Like I said before, if it brings them even one championship, it will have been worth it. If it doesnt, they mortgaged a hell of a lot of their future for one player. And while he has HOF talent, ask a Bears fan if theyd rather watch a player get inducted into the HOF or watch the team hoist up a 2nd Lombardi.
The excuses made for Wilson last night were hysterical. The OLine has nothing to do with the pick 6 or the fumble.... but people have no problem excusing them. If that were Eli, we would have 700 threads looking to tar and feather him. And this geno Smith fan who is using words like faggot and retarded should be instantly banned as he is an obvious dupe.
Does anyone doubt that Wilson is a top flight QB in this league?
Who would you take over him outside of Rodgers or Brady?
His line is awful. He also had a poor game last night. it happens. Our QB has been having poor games for the majority of the last 2+ seasons.
Wilson is a much, much better QB than Eli is at this point in time. That doesn't erase anything Eli has accomplished in the past whatsoever. But not a single GM in the NFL would take Eli Manning over Russ right now and no one would even need more than a split second to think about it.