You’re concentrating on Eli. It doesn’t matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You can’t win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with who’s our next OL than who are next qb is.
The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
Who are you?
Anyway - yeah, my baseball fandom is totally relevant to this discussion. Great point.
Maybe try countering with something worthy of discussion next time?
You’re concentrating on Eli. It doesn’t matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You can’t win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with who’s our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
You’re concentrating on Eli. It doesn’t matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You can’t win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with who’s our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
RE: RE: RE: Boy Russell sucks. He can't avoid untouched blitzers and move the team Â
Wilson's weapons are blanketed and he's looking for completions. That's not the same thing as Eli misreading the field or checking down because he sees shadows. They look alike but they're not the same.
Wilson truly has nowhere to go
It’s the same.
Seattle doesn't have weapons like we do. They have a gadget receiver in Lockett and a slow big receiver in Marshall. We have the best receiver in the league, top 5 receiving tight end in the league, etc.
Seriously, which other team would want Eli? Still think the Jags Â
would rather have Eli than Bortles? Outside NY, the perception of Eli is pretty bad. Of course we NYG diehards insist Eli still has it and we are but a couple of OL’s away, but how many around the league actually share that view?
At this point, who cares what’s the bigger issue? The line sucks, Eli is a statue, erratic and not looking to make plays, and we are staring at another 4-12 season after a disastrous 3-13 year. Everything blows, season is almost over right out of the gate. What’s the point of sitting here and mocking each other when our team is a total embarrassment?
Let’s build for future. And I don’t see how an aging QB with big cap numbers and incapable of changing the outlook of the team fits into the picture.
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here he’s a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
The Eli defenders and bashers make the most noise but the truth is it can both be true that Eli can still be effective with a decent to good OL and that’s it’s time to move on. Eli isn’t what he was and the game has changed which exacerbates the problem. That problem is almost certainly OL play.
BUT it’s not 2014 or 2015 or even 2016. It sucks to move on from the guy who’s given us his all for so long which included 2 rings and dozens of heroic performances. The time to fix things has come and gone and thanks to Reese and friends we still have a horrific offensive line and a quarterback that’s 37. The start to the season is so painful because many of us convinced ourselves we could possibly make one more run that we feel we’ve been robbed of for 5+ years.
I'm wondering if part of the reason they don't want to bring in a young QB yet is they don't want to put him behind this crap fest OL. They'd rather build a line that gives him at least a chance to develop. They figure win with Eli, or don't, but while we see if we get pieces in place don't damage a young QB trying to learn by putting him out there with this OL. You might end up with a Carr in TX. I may be giving them too much credit here, but perhaps...
You’re concentrating on Eli. It doesn’t matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You can’t win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with who’s our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
The Giants are spending the fifth least of all teams in the NFL on their o-line this year.
They need to invest much more. Even next year when Solder's salary shots way up they are still in the bottom half.
You’re concentrating on Eli. It doesn’t matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You can’t win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with who’s our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
We could use the cap dollars anywhere, really.
My point is - this team is clearly not a Super Bowl contender or anything remotely close. So, why not get a jump on the next QB now?
The only way this plan made sense was if we were going to be a playoff team this year. I think we can safely put that to bed even now. The offense is still terrible and still can't score.
We're paying 22M for a QB on a team that before couldn't break 30 points... now we can't break 20!
Do we need to wait until we can't break 10 points to decide maybe it's time to move on?
I'm just not sure what the plan is long-term. Another "go for it" year next year if this doesn't work?
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasn’t given us anything.
Watching what happened on the Oline won’t make me throw Eli under the bus. Especially when he’s battling and when analysts are showing how alarmingly bad the Oline was.
RE: RE: RE: Boy Russell sucks. He can't avoid untouched blitzers and move the team Â
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here he’s a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
You said no one was saying it, when it's been on this site all day.
I'm wondering if part of the reason they don't want to bring in a young QB yet is they don't want to put him behind this crap fest OL. They'd rather build a line that gives him at least a chance to develop. They figure win with Eli, or don't, but while we see if we get pieces in place don't damage a young QB trying to learn by putting him out there with this OL. You might end up with a Carr in TX. I may be giving them too much credit here, but perhaps...
I think poor OL play is really just a reality for most teams at this point and I think it's something a lot of young QB's are just going to have to handle to a degree.
The situation Dak Prescott waltzed into is rare and it'x hard to build that in concert with drafting a new QB and having the timing all line up right.
Even if that was the plan - it's not off to a good start. Solder and Omameh both look like poorly spent cap dollars.
We'll see what we get out of Will Hernandez.
We got rid of Jones, so now without Halapio, John Greco is our center. Either he or Brown.
We moved Ereck Flowers to the other side, put two new starters on the left side, and we still can't pick up simple stunts and twists. Not good.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Boy Russell sucks. He can't avoid untouched blitzers and move the team Â
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasn’t given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasn’t given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
We had Reese controlling the investing and it has cost us for years.
Always accurate and makes the most of every chance he gets. No one ever says Wilson "sees shadows" or has "David Carr syndrome". No missed reads, no overthrows, no running into sacks. Seattle back in the game
My solution is to move on if this season continues to go down this road. We look like a team that is going to have another top 10 pick this year. Figure out a guy we like and go get him.
We already made our bed for this year, so further Darnold/Barkley debate is irrelevant now because we can't do anything about it.
Cutting Eli frees up 17M in cap dollars next year. That's significant. We need help in other areas.
Work on that and seek his successor.
If this year really keeps going down the toilet like this, give Lauletta a real good look in the 2nd half of the year and see what he's got.
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasn’t given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
We had Reese controlling the investing and it has cost us for years.
The point is you just don't just stop because you've failed.
The Giants financially just aren't as invested in their line as most other teams.
And it would probably go a long way in not getting Manning's shit kicked in weekly if they had.
We have a chance to draft a guy who has the same style of Eli or a guy who has the same style as Mariota... who ya taking....
Well, you'd have to tell me which version of Eli it is - because I obviously want the guy who won 2 Super Bowls before I want Marcus Mariota. That's a no brainer. But in 2018, I'd probably take my chances with a healthy Mariota because a guy with legs is the only thing that has a chance behind a line like this.
I'm not hung up on the mobile QB thing as much as it probably sounds I am, though.
A pocket passer is fine - Jared Goff is doing a pretty darn good job right now and he's not taking off running constantly.
There are a lot of intangibles and other things that go into it. The school/offense he came from, etc.
I'm biased, and I don't even know if he'll come out this year - but if the Giants ever have a realistic shot at drafting Tua Tagovailoa, I hope they do. He's a lefty Russell Wilson.
My point is simple, I don’t want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, I’ll take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Wilson never rattled
elgoman : 10:44 pm : link : reply
Always accurate and makes the most of every chance he gets. No one ever says Wilson "sees shadows" or has "David Carr syndrome". No missed reads, no overthrows, no running into sacks. Seattle back in the game
My point is simple, I don’t want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, I’ll take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
My point is simple, I don’t want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, I’ll take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
Last year against the chiefs in OT. 35 yard bomb on 4th down to the 3 to roger Lewis to set up game winning FG.
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is a pretty good example of what happened once he was let go. The Rams basically nose dived for the next 15 years.
Look at this ignoramus pointing out the obvious. HOF QB retires, team declines. Stunning insight
Warner retired after the rams?
Great insight from you..
Quote:
The Giants went 3-13 last year and are now 0-2 again.
I'm just not sure how much longer some of you guys want to keep trying this with Eli. Even if it's not all his fault, you have to be realistic about the best way to fix the team and the longer we keep trying to put the right offensive line in front of him, the more difficult and more expensive it is going to get.
The Giants clearly thought they could compete this year - so far, it looks like they miscalculated pretty badly.
If this becomes another lost season, then what? Try it again next year?
As a Mets fan who bailed when times were tough and came over to the winning side I dont think you are the best qualified person to be discussing when you should part ways with Eli. Hahahahahaha
Who are you?
Anyway - yeah, my baseball fandom is totally relevant to this discussion. Great point.
Maybe try countering with something worthy of discussion next time?
Trubinsky has been awful tonight.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
I am as big a fan of Eli's as anyone here and I will be forever grateful to him. He can't play forever. It's just reality.
Well, he just threw a TD pass on a nice rollout to his weak side with a defender in his face.
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You’re concentrating on Eli. It doesn’t matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You can’t win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with who’s our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
Quote:
In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here he’s a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Quote:
Wilson's weapons are blanketed and he's looking for completions. That's not the same thing as Eli misreading the field or checking down because he sees shadows. They look alike but they're not the same.
Wilson truly has nowhere to go
It’s the same.
Seattle doesn't have weapons like we do. They have a gadget receiver in Lockett and a slow big receiver in Marshall. We have the best receiver in the league, top 5 receiving tight end in the league, etc.
At this point, who cares what’s the bigger issue? The line sucks, Eli is a statue, erratic and not looking to make plays, and we are staring at another 4-12 season after a disastrous 3-13 year. Everything blows, season is almost over right out of the gate. What’s the point of sitting here and mocking each other when our team is a total embarrassment?
Let’s build for future. And I don’t see how an aging QB with big cap numbers and incapable of changing the outlook of the team fits into the picture.
See I disagree with this. I think the argument is getting a mobile QB because the OLine sucks or improving the OL.
Quote:
In comment 14082503 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here he’s a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
BUT it’s not 2014 or 2015 or even 2016. It sucks to move on from the guy who’s given us his all for so long which included 2 rings and dozens of heroic performances. The time to fix things has come and gone and thanks to Reese and friends we still have a horrific offensive line and a quarterback that’s 37. The start to the season is so painful because many of us convinced ourselves we could possibly make one more run that we feel we’ve been robbed of for 5+ years.
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In comment 14082532 dep026 said:
Quote:
You’re concentrating on Eli. It doesn’t matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You can’t win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with who’s our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
The Giants are spending the fifth least of all teams in the NFL on their o-line this year.
They need to invest much more. Even next year when Solder's salary shots way up they are still in the bottom half.
Quote:
In comment 14082532 dep026 said:
Quote:
You’re concentrating on Eli. It doesn’t matter if Eli or Wilson QBs this team. You can’t win with a shit OL. We should be more concerned with who’s our next OL than who are next qb is.
If no one can win with this OL, then why waste the cap dollars on Eli? It's a losing proposition.
Eli has a 22M cap hit this year.
Sam Darnold, for example, has a 5-6M cap hit.
That's a lot of cap dollars that could be used on... the offensive line!
Arc we have spend a ton on the offensive line. High draft picks, solder, etc. not working. More money could be more failures.
I was all about Darnold this past draft but I have zero faith in management getting the players we need to succeed. Gettleman gets an incomplete but solder is looking like a bad investment and Omahwa looks AWFUL.
We could use the cap dollars anywhere, really.
My point is - this team is clearly not a Super Bowl contender or anything remotely close. So, why not get a jump on the next QB now?
The only way this plan made sense was if we were going to be a playoff team this year. I think we can safely put that to bed even now. The offense is still terrible and still can't score.
We're paying 22M for a QB on a team that before couldn't break 30 points... now we can't break 20!
Do we need to wait until we can't break 10 points to decide maybe it's time to move on?
I'm just not sure what the plan is long-term. Another "go for it" year next year if this doesn't work?
So show me the last time it happened.
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In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here he’s a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
Wrong, It was said multiple times last night in the game thread.
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In comment 14082503 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here he’s a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Thank you
Quote:
In comment 14082509 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14082503 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here he’s a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
You should've read some threads today...
Then direct it to the people saying it in those threads. What's the point of saying it here when it's not countering anything actually being said in this discussion?
You said no one was saying it, when it's been on this site all day.
I think poor OL play is really just a reality for most teams at this point and I think it's something a lot of young QB's are just going to have to handle to a degree.
The situation Dak Prescott waltzed into is rare and it'x hard to build that in concert with drafting a new QB and having the timing all line up right.
Even if that was the plan - it's not off to a good start. Solder and Omameh both look like poorly spent cap dollars.
We'll see what we get out of Will Hernandez.
We got rid of Jones, so now without Halapio, John Greco is our center. Either he or Brown.
We moved Ereck Flowers to the other side, put two new starters on the left side, and we still can't pick up simple stunts and twists. Not good.
Quote:
In comment 14082503 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
In comment 14082494 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
As we know a QB should be able to complete passes even with no pass blocking.
But wait, I heard here he’s a mobile QB that would be fine with a bad line like ours!
No one is saying any of this stuff. Hyperbole is a shitty way to argue
Wrong, It was said multiple times last night in the game thread.
This isn't the game thread. It serves no purpose here.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
Quote:
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasn’t given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
We had Reese controlling the investing and it has cost us for years.
My solution is to move on if this season continues to go down this road. We look like a team that is going to have another top 10 pick this year. Figure out a guy we like and go get him.
We already made our bed for this year, so further Darnold/Barkley debate is irrelevant now because we can't do anything about it.
Cutting Eli frees up 17M in cap dollars next year. That's significant. We need help in other areas.
Work on that and seek his successor.
If this year really keeps going down the toilet like this, give Lauletta a real good look in the 2nd half of the year and see what he's got.
Quote:
In comment 14082563 dep026 said:
Quote:
But they drafted Pugh and flowers in the first round. Richburg and Hernandez in the 2nd. Overpaid for Jerry and Schwartz. They have invested a lot in the OL and it hasn’t given us anything.
The Giants once had a generation of WRs that was capped by Chris Calloway, and a few years later started a run with arguably the best combined WRs in the NFL over the last decade plus.
If it's important you have to invest in it.
We had Reese controlling the investing and it has cost us for years.
The point is you just don't just stop because you've failed.
The Giants financially just aren't as invested in their line as most other teams.
And it would probably go a long way in not getting Manning's shit kicked in weekly if they had.
We have a chance to draft a guy who has the same style of Eli or a guy who has the same style as Mariota... who ya taking....
We have a chance to draft a guy who has the same style of Eli or a guy who has the same style as Mariota... who ya taking....
Well, you'd have to tell me which version of Eli it is - because I obviously want the guy who won 2 Super Bowls before I want Marcus Mariota. That's a no brainer. But in 2018, I'd probably take my chances with a healthy Mariota because a guy with legs is the only thing that has a chance behind a line like this.
I'm not hung up on the mobile QB thing as much as it probably sounds I am, though.
A pocket passer is fine - Jared Goff is doing a pretty darn good job right now and he's not taking off running constantly.
There are a lot of intangibles and other things that go into it. The school/offense he came from, etc.
I'm biased, and I don't even know if he'll come out this year - but if the Giants ever have a realistic shot at drafting Tua Tagovailoa, I hope they do. He's a lefty Russell Wilson.
It's like elogman can't even troll well!
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
Did Russell Wilson just quit on the Seahawks?
elgoman : 10:44 pm : link : reply
Always accurate and makes the most of every chance he gets. No one ever says Wilson "sees shadows" or has "David Carr syndrome". No missed reads, no overthrows, no running into sacks. Seattle back in the game
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
It's like elogman can't even troll well!
Hey he stopped watching football once Warner retired from the rams.
Quote:
My point is simple, I don’t want a qb who is mobile who is inconsistent throwing the ball. At the end of the day, I’ll take the guy who can make the big throws when it matters.
Killer pick 6 by Wilson.
when was the last time Eli made a big throw when it mattered?
Last year against the chiefs in OT. 35 yard bomb on 4th down to the 3 to roger Lewis to set up game winning FG.