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Please help out a fellow NYG fan begin watching College FB

jamison884 : 9/17/2018 10:53 pm
This comment comes from another post, so full credit to jlukes and his quote below. I wanted to break this off from that thread in an effort to try and get answers to my follow-up questions about college teams and future QB prospects. I also want to know if those who follow college ball can educate me on how college QBs and offensive linemen play and then evolve during their transition to the NFL.


In comment 14080890 jlukes said:
Quote:
but I think it's time to start admitting that Eli is toast.

He will go down as one of the greatest Giants and my favorite Giant of all time - but it is time to move on.

The NFL has changed. Offensive linemen aren't coming into the NFL ready to play in NFL schemes and therefore more pressure is put on the QB to move around in the pocket, escape the pocket, and create time. Eli was never great at those things and at his older age, he has gotten worse.

The entire benching thing was botched by Reese and company laster year. Manning should have just finished that year out and then we should have started fresh this year.

The fact that we didn't take a QB early, didn't trade down to build for the future, spent big money on Solder, and other short-term moves such as those have set this franchise back 2-3 years.



I think jlukes got it right, with current and future NFL trends being impacted by college football and the subsequent overall influence the college game has over the NFL increasing versus prior years/decades.

So, before I type out my general thoughts, I have two questions I'd really appreciate help with. I've never watched college games because my alma mater is a small school (Monmouth University) with a player every once in awhile making it to the NFL (Miles Austin, Chris Hogan).


1. I've already heard the 2019 QB class is underwhelming. However, who are the top projected QB prospects for the 2019 draft (and their teams) at the moment? As a follow-up, are these guys primarily pocket QB's or do they play a lot of RPO?

2. For the 2020 and 2021 draft classes, are there any players you'd recommend tracking, or would you suggest just watching the higher ranked teams and their QB play in general? I don't know which teams run NFL-derived offensive schemes, but I do know some great NFL QBs have come from smaller programs playing in less competitive NCAA divisions and conferences.


My thoughts aren't unique or special, but this is my thought process on why I'm going to start watching college games.

Throughout the offseason I never waivered; I was sold on the concept of rebuilding around Eli for another run, either this year or next year due to the amount of holes we needed to fill and the lack of depth overall. The most glaring deficiency being our O-line of course. I wanted Barkley and I felt Eli had enough left in him to perform at a high level in today's NFL, as long as the O-line displayed some decent improvement over last year and Barkley was added to our other weapons on offense. After two games, it appears I'm very wrong and willing to admit that, but I'm going to continue to support our team.

Eli is a tremendous teammate in the locker room, a team player first and foremost, and due to his competitive and calm nature, will never quit until he's benched for the last time and/or subsequently not signed elsewhere. I believe he belongs in the HOF someday, has given us two SB championships including 2 MVP performances, has won the Walter Payton Man of the Year award, and has represented the NY Football Giants very well, providing us with an amazing era in our team history.

With that said, Eli looks lost out there. Don't get me wrong, it's not all on Eli and perhaps he's only to blame for as little as 10% of it, I'm willing to admit I don't know precisely where the blame goes and only the coaches and players would know for sure. But from what I can remember about Eli during his prime, he would throw a lot of those balls away to avoid a sack, scramble a bit more (and quicker), and step forward to avoid outside pressure and more effectively evade sacks. I also remember him getting the ball downfield more when he was under similar amounts of pressure, versus throwing it to the checkdown for what seemed like every passing play.

Anyway, beyond Eli and our specific struggles as a team, I do believe that the college game is impacting the way the NFL is played more significantly than in prior years/era's. I imagine there will be a continued and increasing decline of the traditional pocket QB. Some teams will be able to extend the effectiveness of this style due to their great O-lines already in place along with the necessary offensive weapons, but that certainly isn't the NYG (the O-line part at least).

It appears even the best O-linemen coming out of the draft are good/great run blockers, but they need time and significant coaching to develop their pass protection. Although I don't watch college games, my understanding is that most successful college QB's run a scheme taking advantage of traditional QB traits (accuracy, pocket presence, quick release, arm strength, intelligence), but then also adding in their high level of athleticism in order to add a running component to their game which isn't too far behind the effectiveness of a RB. This would be contrary to the once dominant pure pocket NFL QB who has excellent pocket awareness, but the offensive playbook simply doesn't take advantage of the QB's athleticism besides using it to avoid sacks on the occasion the pocket breaks down.

This would also explain why O-linemen drafted over recent years are better at run blocking, as that skillset is utilized on a significantly higher proportion of plays in college with a lot of RPO plays versus a pure pocket-QB based offense. I assume in most college offensive schemes, pass blocking involves more of a delay or misdirection process when in pass protection, versus maintaining a solid pocket with each blocker glued to their assigned responsibility.

Please let me know if this makes sense. I'm more interested in the college trends impacting NFL offenses at present and into the near future, rather than putting blame on Eli. We're going to need a QB within the next few years, if not sooner, and I believe it's most likely going to be a QB that is much more mobile than historical NYG QBs, with an offensive playbook that accounts for the evolution of the college game. Thanks in advance for any assistance.
I can't read all that  
allstarjim : 9/17/2018 11:49 pm : link
But in terms of guys to watch:

Will Grier with West Virginia: A touch undersized but is off to a phenomenal start this year. Athletic, is playing in a spread offense.

Ryan Finley of NC State: underrated right now, but is being talked about more and more as a legit first round QB prospect. I think he's going to be viewed as a polished prospect ready to play early. Not quite so sure about his athleticism but he has plenty of arm, accurate, smooth delivery, throws a catchable ball, is smart and savvy, there is so much to like in his game.

Drew Lock of Mizzou, who used to be the forgone conclusion of top QB in the class. He's off to a big start, this is a huge year for him. Like Finley, a prototype guy. I think he and Finley will be 1 and 2 in terms of the QBs in this class.

Justin Herbert of Oregon. Personally, I'm a bit of a skeptic.

Jarrett Stidham of Auburn (not a fan, seems stiff to me and makes too many mistakes).

Jake Browning of Washington...interesting guy I think can really elevate his draft stock with a strong year.

Clayton Thorson of Northwestern (not a believer, I just don't think the results are there for a top QB prospect).

I’m the same when it comes to following college  
bradshaw44 : 9/18/2018 12:19 am : link
I can never keep up with the Heisman hype and how or why one guy is better than the next. And it really drives me nuts how often Heisman candidates and winners aren’t always projected to have careers in the nfl. Boggles my mind how the hands down best collegiate player can often be flat out disregarded as an nfl prospect after winning the highest honor in the collegiate game. I should say, I understand it and the rationalization behind it, I just don’t like it really. I feel like anyone that is deemed the hands down best payer in college football at a given time should with out a doubt be projected to translate to the nfl, whether it be at their college position or another position. They should be draftable by some team.
allstarjim...  
bw in dc : 9/18/2018 1:23 am : link
Has a good list of QBs to start. I think Grier is a better version of Mayfield and will end up in the top ten.

I’ve grown into a huge Trace McSorley fan. He’s a thrill to watch. Undersized, but continuously comes up big. The type of guy who somehow could find his way onto an NFL roster.

Shea Patterson didn’t do much for me at Ole Miss. But I’m starting to see things I like at Michigan. He’s a very capable mobile QB who can make very good throws on the run. Skills that are highly sought after in today’s NFL...

And yes, this upcoming draft is loaded with OLs and DLs. Very deep there.


Please help out a fellow NYG fan begin watching College FB  
joekono : 9/18/2018 2:44 am : link
I know it's been talked about a trillion times already but 2018 had a lot of great QB prospects. The pick was Darnold (sit him a year or two) until Eli's contract runs out and draft OLs for the next two years. It's crappy thing to do to Eli but he's not going anywhere with this OL.
I remember when read option would dominate the NFL  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/18/2018 6:51 am : link
And Chip Kelly milkshakes.

There's still the dichotomy of a college FB QB starting 20 games and a $20+ million QB starting 200 games.
As the resident Clemson fan..  
KeoweeFan : 9/18/2018 8:36 am : link
I'd recommend following freshman Trevor Lawrence.
Swinney is currently using two QBs, Lawrence and Bryant.

Five star recruit (#2 in nation). 6'6, 210# with a rocket arm and very quick release. Dabo says he "never thought he'd ever again coach a player as good as Deshaun Watson, but this kid is better".
Besides, he looks like Fabio, and has Eli's "ah shucks" personality. The press will love him.

Now if Eli can hold on for 2 or 3 more years.....
RE: As the resident Clemson fan..  
markky : 9/18/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 14082807 KeoweeFan said:
Quote:
I'd recommend following freshman Trevor Lawrence.
Swinney is currently using two QBs, Lawrence and Bryant.

Five star recruit (#2 in nation). 6'6, 210# with a rocket arm and very quick release. Dabo says he "never thought he'd ever again coach a player as good as Deshaun Watson, but this kid is better".
Besides, he looks like Fabio, and has Eli's "ah shucks" personality. The press will love him.

Now if Eli can hold on for 2 or 3 more years.....


He's actually used 3 QBs in the last couple of games. And Bryant appears hurt so maybe Lawrence will get more snaps. Lawrence looked tremendous in the spring scrimmage and has looked ok so far this year. I went to the game Saturday and he looked good for a true freshman. Appears to have some wheels too.
If I had a say in the Giants' plans  
Greg from LI : 9/18/2018 9:30 am : link
I'd pass on the 2019 crop and do everything I could to get Tua Tagovailoa in 2020. He's the real deal - the closest thing you'll find to Aaron Rodgers. Elite athlete, can run, strong arm, accurate, known for a tireless work ethic. People say that none of the 2018 QBs were solid enough to put all your chips on - I disagree a bit with that assessment, but leaving that aside, Tagovailoa is that kind of QB. In only 11 games and 3 starts, he's completed 67% of his passes for 1282 yards and a 19/2 TD/INT ratio. Also has ran for 226 yards at 5.5 YPC.
Keoweefan  
gmenrule : 9/18/2018 2:34 pm : link
I watched Trevor Lawrence compete in the Elite 11 competition as a senior. I was not impressed in the least. When he played with other kids he didn't know, he badly missed them on passes, he constantly threw interceptions, and he looked lost. Now Justin Fields (UGA) the #1 QB in the nation set all kinds of records for Elite 11 and dominated. His problem is that Jake Fromm might be an even better leader - although he cannot run like Fields. Going to be interesting since they are only 1 year apart whereas Lawrence will take over soon from Bryant at Clemson.
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