If last nights Bears game is any indication,

Mobility is a definite plus for a QB, but there isn't a QB alive who could have succeeded with the pressure the Giants line allowed Sunday night. Some may have handled it better than Eli did for sure, but no QB is so mobile that he can play the position with free runners coming at him consistently.

You need a monster edge rusher to be successful?

a monster edge rusher, chicago is going nowhere with their OL and Trubisky.

2nd overall pick in the draft......

I was thinking the same thing last night -- a poster wanted to trade 3 first round picks for Wilson on Monday -- Wilson din't look all that great last night with the Bears Defense swatting him all night

Feel bad Eli is taking so much heat. Anyone who understands the game knows you cannot operate when under the kind of pressure they were under.

Another mobile QB everyone is in love with looks like shit through two games too. Watson has been getting killed and Houston is 0-2. Losing to Blaine Gabbert. Wrap your heads around that. That said he will be all world this weekend against our D.

but over the last 2+ seasons he has had a line just as bad as Eli and has out performed him by a mile.. please stop using one game against an elite DL to make your judgement.. Eli looked bad against Dallas and Jags and pretty much every team we've played for a while now..

Might have the worst group of skill positions in the NFL, especially without Baldwin. Maybe some of that might contribute to Wilson's struggles.

Deleted it and will just add to this thread.

Yes, agreed. Mobility helps. We absolutely wish we had more in Eli. But, most of the sacks Eli took would have been sacks by more mobile QB's. They were blown assignments and wide open shots, by multiple players.

There is an easy fix here. Do your damn job, keep the guy in front of you off your QB. Or risk getting fired.

our old buddy Prince Amukamara had a pick 6 last night, as well! Ugh

is irrelevant when it comes to the OL. Wilson never had a great supporting cast the last few years and still performed but a lot of it was houdini magic. As he gets older, the ability to scramble, evade, duck, or whatever he does to break free wont be as common.

His OLine sucks ass and he is struggling because of it. And while the pick 6 was all on him, its not really his fault. Every QBs clock shortens when you get pummeled every single play. I feel bad for him.

is on the sidelines though?

Well, now he has 2 in the last 4 seasons....awesome!

He has Eli's Wolverine healing abilities. Other QBs would be getting crippled.

you don't need a running QB, but you need a QB with quickness, that can slide into a pocket, or buy time for receivers to get open...

If you are a statue or can't throw on the run or make quick reads of the defense, you will not do well in the new NFL....

Hart starting at RT for the Bengals is definitive proof of the poor quality of OL play throughout the league. Even accounting for that, our OL is obviously much worse than average. But OL play has been declining for years. One reason is that DL are simply quicker and stronger than they were even 10 years ago. Another is that many OL come from spread offenses where they don't have to hold their blocks very long and never learn proper technique because the ball comes out so fast. Many college OL rarely even get in a three point stance.

In comment 14082795 Mike from Ohio said:

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Mobility is a definite plus for a QB, but there isn't a QB alive who could have succeeded with the pressure the Giants line allowed Sunday night. Some may have handled it better than Eli did for sure, but no QB is so mobile that he can play the position with free runners coming at him consistently.

Excellent post Mike, which is nothing new for you

In comment 14082932 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 14082795 Mike from Ohio said: Quote: Mobility is a definite plus for a QB, but there isn't a QB alive who could have succeeded with the pressure the Giants line allowed Sunday night. Some may have handled it better than Eli did for sure, but no QB is so mobile that he can play the position with free runners coming at him consistently. Excellent post Mike, which is nothing new for you

I doubt this.. most QB would put up more than 3 meaningful points against that Dallas defense.. a few more points against the Jags defense and we have a win.. there are defintely wins being left because Eli is a statue and that would be fine if he was accurate like Brady but he isn't..

The Giants should have taken a QB with the 2nd overall pick. He would have started over Eli and would have the team at 2 and 0. He wouldn't have thrown any interceptions versus the Jaguars and he would have eluded every rush versus the cowboys. Ssshhhh......

Unlike Eli.

its Eli's fault? This is just amazing that people have watched for football and come to these conclusions.

Is it Eli's fault we cannot run, especially inside the 10?
Is it Eli's fault when we drop passes or have the ball hit our facemask?
Is it Eli's fault when blockers dont pick up simple stunts or free blitzers?

Again people, the offense stinks because the ENTIRE offsense stinks. From the HC to QB to OL. The offense has left points off the board because we arent very good and havent been for awhile.

Changing one person is not the solution. OBJ and SB have come to play, but the efforts of the rest of their teammates have left them short.

In comment 14082985 jeff57 said:

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Unlike Eli.

So the pick 6 to end the game last night was because he has no weapons? He could have had OBJ and SB last night - it wouldnt affect it much since their OL couldnt block you or I.

In comment 14082808 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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a monster edge rusher, chicago is going nowhere with their OL and Trubisky. 2nd overall pick in the draft......

Was actually thinking that as well. He had that nice run on 3rd down but he leaves a lot to be desired as a passer. And because of that Jordan Howard isn’t going to get huge running lanes.

Not calling him a bust yet but it wouldn’t be surprising.

In comment 14082988 dep026 said:

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its Eli's fault? This is just amazing that people have watched for football and come to these conclusions. Is it Eli's fault we cannot run, especially inside the 10? Is it Eli's fault when we drop passes or have the ball hit our facemask? Is it Eli's fault when blockers dont pick up simple stunts or free blitzers? Again people, the offense stinks because the ENTIRE offsense stinks. From the HC to QB to OL. The offense has left points off the board because we arent very good and havent been for awhile. Changing one person is not the solution. OBJ and SB have come to play, but the efforts of the rest of their teammates have left them short.

I agree with you overall but just like you didn't include Eli in your last statement, i beleive the same thing.. you got people on this thread calling out Wilson who has far out performed Eli over the past 2+ season with an OL thats just as bad and no OBJ level skill weapon.. Its not all Eli's fault and there are many other to blame and some are way worse than Eli.. but Eli is also to be blamed.. he isn't blame free.. so please don't tell me after watching one game that Wilson won't be any better..

In comment 14082985 jeff57 said:

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Unlike Eli.

Jesus Christ. You people have an excuse for everything. No matter what, Eli is the QB and there is nothing you can do about it. Find something else to do other than whine on a discussion board about your resentment for Eli.

talk this morning with the Sports Junkies. He said he was angry at how bad the Giants OL played Sunday. He said he couldn't believe he was watching pro OL'men that couldn't pick up simple stunts and were allowing guys to go unblocked through the line. But he went on to say that Eli was absolutely no help to the situation and he is unequivocally done as a QB in the NFL. But he said nobody could have played behind that OL.

So basically it's a combination of both parties in his eyes.

well, and his mobility helped offset it?

Or are we only picking one side to evaluate here? That would fit the way BBI has been operating lately.

In comment 14083052 bradshaw44 said:

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talk this morning with the Sports Junkies. He said he was angry at how bad the Giants OL played Sunday. He said he couldn't believe he was watching pro OL'men that couldn't pick up simple stunts and were allowing guys to go unblocked through the line. But he went on to say that Eli was absolutely no help to the situation and he is unequivocally done as a QB in the NFL. But he said nobody could have played behind that OL. So basically it's a combination of both parties in his eyes.

And I think that's fair. I don't think anyone would argue that the state of the Giants OL means that any QB would struggle to succeed. Given Eli's particular limitations at this point, I would say that he is especially handicapped by the OL to an extent that a more athletic QB wouldn't be. I don't see why that's so hard to accept. It goes with the Russell Wilson discussion - the Seahawks' awful OL has been a major obstacle for Wilson the past couple of seasons, but he has still performed at a much higher level than Eli Manning has because he's much better equipped to deal with that particular hardship.

didn't play very well either.

The game thread discussed how both he and Wilson were under a lot of pressure and it showed. Trubisky made several poor throws under duress and while he also scrambled, overall it wasn't a good showing by him.

#2 overall pick in the draft.

In comment 14083056 jcn56 said:

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well, and his mobility helped offset it? Or are we only picking one side to evaluate here? That would fit the way BBI has been operating lately.

His mobility may be his best feature.

Never thought that highly of him, always suspicious of guys who pop up and have one big season out of nowhere in college. Saw him play a lot at UNC and never thought I was looking at an NFL star.

CPR 73.5
YDS: 200
TD: 2
INT 2
QBR 83.0

That's with an OL that did him no favors and pretty much under pressure all night.

Is there someone here that wants to convince me that we wouldn't be happy with those numbers under the circumstances, especially given the fact that they won the game?

Here's Wilson - with possibly just as shit an OL as ours, with far fewer skill position options, running for his life all night:

CPR 61.1
YDS 226
TD 2
INT 1
QBR 86.1

one thing I noticed about Trubisky is that they had two QB draws called on 3rd and long and three plays where he scrambled on 3rd down and made errant throws to open WR's.

The two draws failed to pick up a first down, and I can't imagine that play is better than throwing short of the sticks.

While his mobility certainly helped him on certain plays, it also was a negative on other plays, and combined with inaccuracy, helped derail drives that otherwise would be extended - some of the same things we complain about with Eli

In comment 14083076 jcn56 said:

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CPR 73.5 YDS: 200 TD: 2 INT 2 QBR 83.0 That's with an OL that did him no favors and pretty much under pressure all night. Is there someone here that wants to convince me that we wouldn't be happy with those numbers under the circumstances, especially given the fact that they won the game? Here's Wilson - with possibly just as shit an OL as ours, with far fewer skill position options, running for his life all night: CPR 61.1 YDS 226 TD 2 INT 1 QBR 86.1

Eli's stats
Completion percentage: 75%
Yards: 270
TD: 1
INTs: 0
QBrating: 100.9

So eli played awesome against Dallas then right?

Quote:

Here's Wilson - with possibly just as shit an OL as ours, with far fewer skill position options, running for his life all night: CPR 61.1 YDS 226 TD 2 INT 1 QBR 86.1

A pick 6 and a fumble on the following drive to seal the loss. Does Eli get latitude on that as having a shit OL and being under duress all game, or would it be said that he's toast and the reason for the loss.

It's gotten beyond ridiculous at this point.

In comment 14083076 jcn56 said:

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CPR 73.5 YDS: 200 TD: 2 INT 2 QBR 83.0 That's with an OL that did him no favors and pretty much under pressure all night. Is there someone here that wants to convince me that we wouldn't be happy with those numbers under the circumstances, especially given the fact that they won the game? Here's Wilson - with possibly just as shit an OL as ours, with far fewer skill position options, running for his life all night: CPR 61.1 YDS 226 TD 2 INT 1 QBR 86.1

So lets gets this straight JCN

Trubinsky throws two awful INTs, threw nothing but dump offs all night, had a 3rd INT that should have been a picked 6 dropped and led the offense to a total of 17 points - you are going to sit here and tell me that BBI would have been ecstatic about Eli doing that in a game? Come on now.... this is getting ridiculous.

By the way Wilson threw the back breaking pick 6 on an AWFUL throw down 7 and driving to tie it and then followed it up with a strip sack for holding it too long. Yeah, BBI would have loved that from Eli.

The people who bash Eli and make excuses for other QBs is comical on this board anymore.

In comment 14083072 Greg from LI said:

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Never thought that highly of him, always suspicious of guys who pop up and have one big season out of nowhere in college. Saw him play a lot at UNC and never thought I was looking at an NFL star.

Agree. Think he was way overdrafted. He's someone I would have passed over to take Barkley. But not Darnold, Rosen and Allen.

But let's not forget how this thread started, to great applause:

Quote:

it doesnt matter if you have a mobile passer or not. If you dont have an offensive line to protect, you are gonna get beat.

Trubisky didn't, and he won. And despite having Khalil Mack on his back all night and shit pretty much across the board elsewhere on O, Wilson could have pulled that one out as well.

Offensive line play in the NFL has declined, and offenses have been built to work around that.

In comment 14083103 jcn56 said:

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But let's not forget how this thread started, to great applause: Quote: it doesnt matter if you have a mobile passer or not. If you dont have an offensive line to protect, you are gonna get beat. Trubisky didn't, and he won. And despite having Khalil Mack on his back all night and shit pretty much across the board elsewhere on O, Wilson could have pulled that one out as well. Offensive line play in the NFL has declined, and offenses have been built to work around that.

So you make excuses for other QBs but not the team you root for. Great fan you are.

Oh, by the way, the reason why Seattle lost was because of Wilson's play. The two TOs had nothing to do with the OL or skilled player. Wilson made two AWFUL plays.... but I guess its ok to exonerate him.

I think Wilson may have it worse than Eli, but he's still thrown for 5 TDs this year. Wilson is outplaying Eli right now. Watching the two games (and focusing on plays from the pocket), Wilson looked to me to be keeping his eyes down the field looking to make a play as the pocket collapsed. Eli often looked like he was shifting his body to try and avoid a rush or brace for a hit while the defender was still a few yards away.

I understand and agree that this team is not going to be successful with awful OL play. I also don't think looking at Wilson gives us reason to have comfort in Eli's play (which may not have been the point of the thread).

Yes he won:

Quote:

Trubisky didn't, and he won

In a matchup featuring two poor OL's somebody has to win.

Wilson lost the game - by a TD, after he threw a pick six. They didn't get completely blown out in a non-competitve effort was the point.

But in addition to Wilson's absolutely shit OL - he's got nothing else around him there either.

You want to bet that Wilson would be a much better player if he had OBJ out there?

In comment 14083120 jcn56 said:

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Wilson lost the game - by a TD, after he threw a pick six. They didn't get completely blown out in a non-competitve effort was the point. But in addition to Wilson's absolutely shit OL - he's got nothing else around him there either. You want to bet that Wilson would be a much better player if he had OBJ out there?

We will never know. Wilson sucked balls last night. Despite the OL and his skilled receivers.

Who is the better QB right now, Wilson or Manning? If you could pick one to be your starter, who would you pick? Who gives you a better chance to win?

In comment 14083115 BrettNYG10 said:

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I think Wilson may have it worse than Eli, but he's still thrown for 5 TDs this year. Wilson is outplaying Eli right now. Watching the two games (and focusing on plays from the pocket), Wilson looked to me to be keeping his eyes down the field looking to make a play as the pocket collapsed. Eli often looked like he was shifting his body to try and avoid a rush or brace for a hit while the defender was still a few yards away. I understand and agree that this team is not going to be successful with awful OL play. I also don't think looking at Wilson gives us reason to have comfort in Eli's play (which may not have been the point of the thread).

Wilson is also on pace for 40 turnovers too.

And again, we have to separate the narrative. Russell Wilson is not at fault for his teams shittiness. We are just proving that you can have a great athletic QB who has been great in the league and put a shitty OL around him, and he is just going to get it done.

This has nothing to with Eli but more the OL.

In comment 14083121 dep026 said:

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We will never know. Wilson sucked balls last night. Despite the OL and his skilled receivers.

You know that Eli's had quite a few games like that, right? Even when he had a perfectly functional OL?

If you're going to claim double standards, I'm not sure this is the avenue you want to pursue.

In comment 14083119 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Yes he won: Quote: Trubisky didn't, and he won In a matchup featuring two poor OL's somebody has to win.

Let's do it again for the reading impaired. The main point of this thread, starting with the OP:

Quote:

it doesnt matter if you have a mobile passer or not. If you dont have an offensive line to protect, you are gonna get beat.

It was wrong. And despite two shit OLs, the two QBs in this one put up decent numbers. Numbers that quite frankly we'd kill for based on what our team has been putting up lately.

In comment 14083124 Greg from LI said:

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Who is the better QB right now, Wilson or Manning? If you could pick one to be your starter, who would you pick? Who gives you a better chance to win?

Ill take Wilson. But I am not taking either's OL because neither is going to succeed with any of them. Thats the whole point. People want this to be Eli vs. every other QB. Its not. Its about having an OL being able to pick up a simple stunt or block free blitzers or hell - just stay in front of their guy for more than a second.

In comment 14083127 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 14083121 dep026 said: Quote: We will never know. Wilson sucked balls last night. Despite the OL and his skilled receivers. You know that Eli's had quite a few games like that, right? Even when he had a perfectly functional OL? If you're going to claim double standards, I'm not sure this is the avenue you want to pursue.

You keep bringing it back to Eli and thats fine given my past. All I have focused this year is a shit OL. And how no matter who is QBing, they are set up for failure.

you are really bragging about how well the QBs played last night? Just goes to show people dont watch games and still form opinions by looking at numbers.

Your bragging that Wilson lost by a score yet failing to realize they scored a TD with 4 seconds left. Does Eli get credit for losing by a score to Dallas as well? Jesus Christ.

neitehr stat line is good. FFS, Eli's stat line against Dallas was better than both - so that holds absolutely no water.

based on just the numbers, Eli looked really good!

I'd actually ask if you watched the game or are just going by the numbers?

Quote:

Who the hell made any excuses for them? jcn56 : 10:27 am : link : reply Wilson lost the game - by a TD, after he threw a pick six. They didn't get completely blown out in a non-competitve effort was the point.

The giants lost the Dallas game by a TD. And the Seahawks weren't much more competitive. They got a late TD, just like the Giants and tried an onside kick at the end with 10 seconds left.

same margin of defeat. Same look of not being in the game.

It is like you didn't watch it and are trying to tell us Wilson and Trubisky looked good. And you posted stats that frankly don't look better than Eli's did.