I have to admit, I was so sickened and angered after the game that my knee-jerk reaction was to jump on the "let's bash Eli" bandwagon. After re-watching the game, I not only realized that laying blame on Eli was a lazy cop-out, but it was completely wrong. In fact, I actually came away somewhat impressed with how he continued to play/compete and run the offense, despite taking an absolute beating all night.
Here are a couple FACTUAL points that you must read/consider:
- The offensive line was absolutely GOD-AWFUL. They couldn't/didn't block ANYBODY. Whether it was opening a hole for Barkley or picking up a blitz/stunt, they were out matched and out-classed every time.
- Eli is not a mobile quarterback. In fact, he never has been, so I'm not sure how/why this has become some sort of revelation or surprise. We've all seen what a gifted passer Eli is when his line can buy him a little time to throw the ball. The only plays that Eli seemed to have any time were when Dallas rushed 4 men or less, and no receivers seemed to get open and Eli wisely had to check down to Barkely.
- Even if he were mobile or if the Giants had a mobile QB playing on Sunday night, you cannot convince me or any astute football mind that the result would have been any different (look at Russell Wilson last night). There were several plays in which Dallas defenders came in completely unblocked! The line seemed lost, clueless, and fooled by basic blitz/stunt packages all night. It was as if they had just met for the first time that afternoon.
- Eli made great decisions in terms of throwing the football. He took shots downfield (when he could) and was accurate. There was a beautiful pass down down the right sideline to Shepard where only he could catch it (which hit Shephard right in the face and fell incomplete). There aren't 5 other QBS in the NFL that could put the ball where he did.
Now, with that said, I am not absolving Eli of all criticism. He still has ball security issues, as he seems to fumble the ball almost every other he gets clobbered in the pocket. But then again, on many of those plays, the line never gave him a chance.
Eli Manning is certainly an aging QB, who is a statue in the pocket (as he always has been) but he most certainly can still be a very good quaterback playing behind a decent line. But let me be clear, and I mean CRYSTAL clear, to all of the mouth-breathers on here: there isn't another QB, living or dead, who could have had any success against the Cowboys Sunday night. You are kidding yourself if you feel otherwise.
No argument there. Nor am I suggesting that Eli is without flaws or is still an elite qb. But of all the problems/causes for concern/reasons for sunday's debacle, Eli was pretty low on the totem pole.
He checked down too early or just went to the wrong guy a handful times.
A few times there was a decent pocket and he could have bought a little time with just normal pocket mobility but didnt.
He is shellshocked as a result of the last 3-4 years of horrid O-Line play and they were bad on Sunday but Eli left yards on the field as well even when he had time.
- Eli isn't mobile
- He's blameless expect of course where you blame him on ball security issues
I particularly love the "there aren't 5 guys in the NFL can make the throw he made to Shepard" And there is no other QB "living or dead" that could have any more success against the Cowboys.
These are just classic...pin these up please up on the Forum and your mom's fridge.
Flowers had no idea who Calais Campbell was? The Giants haven't been able to block a stunt for 4 years?
Every offensive lineman in the NFL can pick up a stunt without coaching. But we can't? Why is Nate Solder, Mr. Patriot, utterly confused?
There is something horribly, horribly wrong with this organization and it goes way beyond the coaches and players. Something systemic.
As an aside - look at the gameplan against the Cowboys. DAL has a low scoring offense themselves. Why did we come out throwing so much with a bad OL and a low scoring opponent? The gameplan& playcalling looked so eerily similar to McAdoo. How is that possible?
There's really only one explanation: the Giants have a "New York Giants" way of doing things, and every coach and player forgets what they know when they get here and does things Mara's way.
He said there was no way he could blame Eli for the loss. He echoed what you wrote and that he was actually impressed by his leadership and some of his throws “in the middle of that sh!tshow” lol. He did also mention that he’s never been more concerned for Eli’s well being. He thinks this line might get him killed.
Eli is part of the problem. The OL is part of the problem. Coaching could be part of the problem. The dropped passes could be part of the problem. Facing actual players on the opposite side of the ball is part of the problem.
What the fuck are these threads proving? If you have a bad OL, the QB is going to make bad decisions. A QB will often make questionable decisions even if he has time to throw. Sometimes the decision is good and the target drops the ball. Sometimes the defender makes a play.
What's accomplished again??
Eli is part of the problem. The OL is part of the problem. Coaching could be part of the problem. The dropped passes could be part of the problem. Facing actual players on the opposite side of the ball is part of the problem.
What the fuck are these threads proving? If you have a bad OL, the QB is going to make bad decisions. A QB will often make questionable decisions even if he has time to throw. Sometimes the decision is good and the target drops the ball. Sometimes the defender makes a play.
What's accomplished again??
Meh, don't get so riled up. It's a sports forum. People deal with things differently. Maybe he just wanted to vent his thoughts. If you have an issue with threads, don't click on them.
+1
it's really simple: eli still has arm strength but has completely lost his pocket fluidity.
Offense construction: in a salary cap world, if you have a pocket fluid QB you can afford to skimp on the line and pay up high draft picks and budget for beckhams, engrams, and barkleys (e.g. Ben). if you have a statue, you must invest in the line or find later round draft gold (e.g Stafford / Goff)
Ok true. I guess you're getting soft!
Eli just has warts of his own, that are being magnified now, because of the situation.
It's a little bit of Eli and allot to do the O-line being poor.
There was a sack in the 1st half where he felt immediate blind-side pressure and spun out of the pocket towards the sideline. That reverse spin to elude an edge rusher has been a staple for him and I can't ever remember him not finishing that move.
This time, he spun out but it wasn't quite athletic enough and he got tripped up for the sack. Those are the little things I notice Eli slowing down. Instead of spinning out and making a throw it's a 13 yard loss. Drive over. Game changing plays.
The OL is unexplainably bad but Eli is not the same athlete anymore either, and he couldn't afford to lose a step.
Eli can still play. But not behind this shit show of an O-line.
Eli is part of the problem. The OL is part of the problem. Coaching could be part of the problem. The dropped passes could be part of the problem. Facing actual players on the opposite side of the ball is part of the problem.
What the fuck are these threads proving? If you have a bad OL, the QB is going to make bad decisions. A QB will often make questionable decisions even if he has time to throw. Sometimes the decision is good and the target drops the ball. Sometimes the defender makes a play.
What's accomplished again??
Not sure if call him part of the problem but don’t think he no longer is part of the solution
Seems like everything now a days. You either agree with me completely or you don't and you're wrong and you're an idiot and I hate you and you should die.
the hyperbole is just ridiculous and nauseating.
As in.. he shares NO part of the blame here?
I find that hard to believe.
I also don't believe it is ALL his fault. But that's an entirely different train of thought.
You lost it with that line.
The offense has been dreadful for more than two full seasons now. During that time, they've changed coaches twice, used first round picks on a tight end and a running back, and reconstructed the offensive line. The only common denominator throughout this period is Eli, who also happens to play the most important position in the offense. Doesn't that say something?
The O-Line is a disgrace and has been for some time. I do commend Gettleman for recognizing this and trying to fix it. But so far his decisions on how to fix it have not paid off.
Eli finally makes a really good throw down field, and our WR literally kept his eye on the ball all the way through.
He checked down too early or just went to the wrong guy a handful times.
A few times there was a decent pocket and he could have bought a little time with just normal pocket mobility but didnt.
He is shellshocked as a result of the last 3-4 years of horrid O-Line play and they were bad on Sunday but Eli left yards on the field as well even when he had time.
lol quarterbacks - the very best ones of all-time - miss wide-open guys sometimes.
Man, have we tighten the ratchets around Eli's balls.
ah - the old fuck once defense
Quote:
He missed some guys running open several times when he had a good pocket.
He checked down too early or just went to the wrong guy a handful times.
A few times there was a decent pocket and he could have bought a little time with just normal pocket mobility but didnt.
He is shellshocked as a result of the last 3-4 years of horrid O-Line play and they were bad on Sunday but Eli left yards on the field as well even when he had time.
lol quarterbacks - the very best ones of all-time - miss wide-open guys sometimes.
Man, have we tighten the ratchets around Eli's balls.
Meanwhile Eli had a Chad Pennington-esque 75% completion XD
The only game I remember an OL being this overmatched was when Aikmen was sacked by the Eagles 11 times in a game as a rookie. This was about that same as that game.
Eli is part of the problem. The OL is part of the problem. Coaching could be part of the problem. The dropped passes could be part of the problem. Facing actual players on the opposite side of the ball is part of the problem.
What the fuck are these threads proving? If you have a bad OL, the QB is going to make bad decisions. A QB will often make questionable decisions even if he has time to throw. Sometimes the decision is good and the target drops the ball. Sometimes the defender makes a play.
What's accomplished again??
As humans we tend to look at things in that black/white approach. We want answers and in this case, the Giants mob of fans who are tired of mediocrity want someone or a group to blame. It makes problems seem more solvable. When your offense looks like ours did Sunday night, everyone takes some blame. The game of football is so unique in that 11 men are on the field, and one guy making the slightest fuck up can wreak havoc. The Giants had a handful of players make a lot of mistakes, some on the same play. Everyone needs to get better...including our skill guys. Enough of the dropsies.
On the high majority of passing plays, the line gets demolished and defense either get free runs at Eli, or the pocket collapses immediately from multiple places leaving Eli with no options.
Occasionally the pocket holds for a beat but these occasions are the exceptions.
So I don't understand how Eli is supposed to operate under the assumption that the line is actually going to hold the pocket on any given play. It is far more likely that he is going to have no time to throw and thus tries to get rid earlier rather than later.
As a result, he will often go to a read who might be open for four yards, than waiting a bit longer to see if something 15 yards opens up because the likelihood is that he will get sacked waiting for the play to develop.
No different from any other part of life, I guess.
Losing sucks, but these games are just so damn boring. The dink and dunk shit on offense for the last few years is like watching paint dry.
Schemes . All take time .
Look back suburban-ites . It took a few years and drafts
to compile a good O-line
We missed on Flowers Richberg but I think Pugh was a decent pick but even that year there were better players but we picked late that season .
When we had the Line with Kmac one of the best ever Free agents he was a key signing . So one more draft and likely another FA signing then maybe the O-line will be better
from a talent standpoint and can jell a bit quicker all
bets are off for now unless Flowers Flowers Omameh and
Hernandez get comfortable together . Its gonna be a long season again 4-5 wins .
Worst case scenario happened Sunday when the Oline was having missed assignments early. This resulted in Eli getting hit and being gun shy the rest of the game. When they gave him time he didn't trust it and just forced the check down instead of pushing the ball where it was open. Run the ball early and settle the offense and he will be better