He's live right now with Francesa and so many non-answers and this is very awkward, can't really transcribe right now but it's reminding me a little of McAdoo interviews last season.....not a good feeling
The great motivator is FEAR. Parcells understood this. The starting five doesn't go to work with the fear of losing their jobs right now because they know the Giants have no options to replace them. It would be different if we had a draft pick and/or a veteran OL sitting on the bench. We don't.
So the coaches tell the offensive linemen, "Do your (blanking) job or else!!"
Team management has repeatedly said this is not a rebuilding ball club.
They appear to be living in fantasy land.
Yep. That’s my biggest concern, honestly. Too soon for judgement, but big picture outlook, to my eyes, screams of miscalculation. So much focus on little shit like like Stewart signing. I don’t care about that at all. But the vision for rebuilding this team and management of major resources —that’s franchise altering shit this team could not afford to get wrong. This far, I’m not impressed.
1-- Why go after Solder if we all knew the OL is was so bad?
2-- WHy bring back Eli?
3-- If we all felt we were in rebuild why not act like like it instead fo signing some of the older players
I'm not Eric, but...
1. IMV, when they missed on Norwell, Solder was the next option option in terms of available oline skill.
2. 100% Mara's wishes.
3. A true rebuild, which I think was the better option, would have been the end of Eli. And Mara was not ready for that. So they stitched together some off-season moves in the free agency period, went against conventional wisdom and took a RB over a future QB prospect, and then backed up the Brinks Truck for OBJ. All with this hope - cross your fingers and hope to catch lightening in a bottle on more time with Eli.
1-- I know they went after Solder but the problem with the GMen wasn't just one bad OL was it? It was more than one, right? For example why not pay for Fulton (OG) and Hubbard (OT) and not pay for Solder and Omameh and Stewart?
2-- Don't agree that is was JUST Mara's wish. If a GM felt GMen weren't going to win, they'd have also drafted QB realizing long term a QB will probably be better. That's why they also took Solder. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid as much for Solder and Stewart and why you trade Ogaltree for draft picks. The GM thought this team was going to win.
3-- I agree. I agree with you they should have been in rebuild mode. They showed though-- Mara and DG that they weren't in rebuild mode, didn't they? SO if this team doesn't bounce back -- you sort of begin at some point to seriously question their competency, wouldn't you?
4-- Add that PS is supposedly a super OL coach and great tactician, yet he has to be involved somewhat in the OL but secondly he opened up his mouth that only Allen was worth taking high at QB. It's not certain but we sort of have an inkling that he was pretty stupid there, wasn't he? Not that he made the wrong move yet-- just his evaluation of Darnold was pretty bad, wasn't it?
weekly interviews are necessary. Does BB do one up in Boston? Nobody gives a damn how the HC treats/deals with the media if they're winning. The problem here is that Shurmur obviously isn't BB.
(BB started 0-4 as the Pats coach, on his way to a 5-11 inaugural season in 2000. Maybe Shurmur will follow that path. Sorry. I was out at trivia night & downed a few 'refreshments'. Let me dream.)
why some people don't want to coach in the NYC market.
If someone doesn't want to coach here because they're afraid of having a 15 min conversation with Francessa on a weekly basis, then you don't want them anywhere near your football team.
The great motivator is FEAR. Parcells understood this. The starting five doesn't go to work with the fear of losing their jobs right now because they know the Giants have no options to replace them. It would be different if we had a draft pick and/or a veteran OL sitting on the bench. We don't.
So the coaches tell the offensive linemen, "Do your (blanking) job or else!!"
What's the else?
Speaking of Parcells and fear.
I was present to hear Phil Simms keynote an event. He told a Parcells story.
The team had been playing poorly and Simms was getting sacked a lot. They had a bad week of practice and Simms was getting crushed a lot. He said Parcells just tore into the OL like he had never seen. Screaming and cursing at them.To such an extent that practice stopped and the whole team was watching.
Simms said he stood behind Bill and was just nodding along.
Then he said “and you know who I blame?” And he turned around and said ‘You, Simms”.
Parcells proceeded to rip into Simms for not ripping into the OL.
The two of them had a terrible fight.
Present day Simms then told the crowd ‘and Bill was right. It was my fault”
Simms explained that an OL needs to feel personally responsible for the well being of the QB and its the QBs duty to make them feel that way. They needed to feel like it was “their QB” and his body and safety were their responsibility. Only the QB can make them feel that way. Simms said once he started to listen to Parcells and go after his OL when they let him down, then they started protecting him better.
The great motivator is FEAR. Parcells understood this. The starting five doesn't go to work with the fear of losing their jobs right now because they know the Giants have no options to replace them. It would be different if we had a draft pick and/or a veteran OL sitting on the bench. We don't.
So the coaches tell the offensive linemen, "Do your (blanking) job or else!!"
What's the else?
Speaking of Parcells and fear.
I was present to hear Phil Simms keynote an event. He told a Parcells story.
The team had been playing poorly and Simms was getting sacked a lot. They had a bad week of practice and Simms was getting crushed a lot. He said Parcells just tore into the OL like he had never seen. Screaming and cursing at them.To such an extent that practice stopped and the whole team was watching.
Simms said he stood behind Bill and was just nodding along.
Then he said “and you know who I blame?” And he turned around and said ‘You, Simms”.
Parcells proceeded to rip into Simms for not ripping into the OL.
The two of them had a terrible fight.
Present day Simms then told the crowd ‘and Bill was right. It was my fault”
Simms explained that an OL needs to feel personally responsible for the well being of the QB and its the QBs duty to make them feel that way. They needed to feel like it was “their QB” and his body and safety were their responsibility. Only the QB can make them feel that way. Simms said once he started to listen to Parcells and go after his OL when they let him down, then they started protecting him better.
Man, I just don't see this kind of Parcells-Bellicheat-Coughlin motivational coaching in Shurmur. There's a reason Parcells has a coaching tree so big, the blue people from Avatar would worship and dance around it.
2-- Don't agree that is was JUST Mara's wish. If a GM felt GMen weren't going to win, they'd have also drafted QB realizing long term a QB will probably be better. That's why they also took Solder. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid as much for Solder and Stewart and why you trade Ogaltree for draft picks. The GM thought this team was going to win.
Well, I've been through this quite a bit, so I'll keep it short.
Mara was really shaken by what happened to Eli last year. He did not want to see Eli end his career here with such turmoil.
So Mara brought in Accorsi, who drafted Eli, to consult on this big GM search. But in a matter of minutes - don't buy the press reports about days or weeks - Accorsi recommended Gettleman, who was there with Accorsi when they drafted Eli. Both men have talked glowingly about Eli and what he has done for the organization.
Shurmur is hired. The man who just made chicken salad out of that chicken sh-t QB Keenum. The perfect coach who could have the right recipe to rejuvenate Eli.
Then we hear how everyone has watched video of Eli and they all agree, coincidentally, that Eli still has all these wonderful attributes to lead this team back.
Mara loves Eli to Accorsi loves Eli to Gettleman loves Eli to Shurman can make everyone love Eli.
Pretty simple to trace all of this back to Mara's wishes...
issue is that he thinks these coaches owe him something more than the typical media guy. You can tell he just gets so offended when coaches don't say anything. He's had Eli on every week for 15 years and Eli has literally said nothing.
I actually felt a little bit bad for Shurmur in that he was clearly trying to fulfill his obligation as the interviewer but was uncomfortable.
When he made the point that basically not all of his opinions need to be shared at that time and place it made me feel better. As a fan, I certainly hope he can be a bit tougher on his players privately than what he’s willing to show on the radio.
As for the actual questions at hand, let’s face it, everyone in that building from Shurmur to Mara has to be sweating bullets about the fact that Solder, Hernandez and Omameh, specifically, have not been better than this so far. There has basically been no improvement.
Not only that, but guys like Ellison, Simonson and Smith who are around to help block, were all getting blown up, penalized or whiffing on blocks.
There might not be a whole lot you can do re: this o line, but you have to try. If I’m Shurmur, Wheeler and Pulley would both see action this week if the game starts out anything like Dallas. Flowers and Omameh can’t keep this up. You need to see if you can do better.
This is gonna be a long painful season to endure. Shurmur is trying to find a way to protect his aged QB with spare parts. Until the Giants get their hands on a mobile QB, they're finished.
Eli's pocket has a huge hole in it, and it won't be fixed soon.
Yeah NY reporters will
Les in TO : 5:28 pm : link : reply
Call him out on his evasive answers and flat out lies like his answer to the third down throws short of the sticks yesterday.
I guess you ignored his press conference yesterday. I don’t know why you have so much anger to fans who are frustrated with the state of the team
you make it sound like because you've posted the same thing over and over that it is true. But there's so much logic that it evades.
You basically have to unlearn history to believe that the Giants have mandated Eli will be the QB and that everyone has to fall in line with that thinking.
Gettleman was fired in Carolina for standing up to the owner regarding how he planned to look at options for a couple veteran players. Anyone who thinks he came to NY and was mandated to keep Eli is ignoring the history. Shurmur didn't even have ties to the team and all of a sudden he's labeled as a yes man?
Your whole premise is that Mara had egg on his face from last year and built an entire management team around keeping Eli, and have based all the decisions around that plan. It is fantastical horseshit.
None of it makes logical sense. Mara supposedly wanted Eli benched, now he mandates he starts. Gettleman gets fired for standing up to the owner but is a lackey and yes man. Shurmur is trying desperately to remove the stain of Cleveland, yet he signs up to be a puppet?
The mental gymnastics and conspiracy theories around not picking a QB are ludicrous at this point. No doubt you'll continue to post the same mythology hundreds of more times, and it will be no more closer to the truth then as it is now.
Simple and not even really worth debate. Before I get to my point, I don’t put much stock into the interview, I don’t think Schurmur was a great hire but that’s for other reasons.
For those of us who are old enough to remember, the Giants of 1985-2011 were really one of the premier and well run organizations in all of professional sports. Save for a few years (between Simms and Collins), they were regularly in contention. They had owners that’s really seems to get it and let football men run the operation. They had multiple GMs who had their flaws but could, for the most part understood team building. They also seemed to understand where the team was in terms of competitiveness.
One of the watershed moments in this franchises history was the 2004 offseason. They were sitting with a qb in his early 30s who had been above average to good for the team, and had even led them to s super bowl. However, Accorsi understood where the team was that offseason. A team with a lot of holes that wasn’t going to be fixed in one season. He also understood the opportunity in front of him to grab a potentially franchise changing qb at the top of the draft. And for those of you who remember, if the Giants couldn’t get Eli, they were taking Ben. Sure, they could have stuck with Collins and drafted Gallery or whoever fit the bill, but they were likely looking at a number of mediocre seaons in the future. However, those offsraons decisions in terms of not only qb, but also head coach completely altered the future of the Franchise.
Since 2012, I believe this team has a record of something like 33-50. That’s rock bottom in the NFL. Rather than make wholesale changes, this team continues to take the band aid approach. Culminating in last seaons offseason decisions to go all in on a team coming off a 3-13 seaons, preceded by 4 of 5 years out of the playoff. Clearly the Giants didn’t and really couldn’t remake the entire roster in one or even two years. So I ask, what was the point of going all in on a 37 year old qb and selecting a position with an average productive shelf life of 5 seaons? Now I’m not suggesting that Eli is the entire problem or that Barkley isn’t a greys talent, but how could one not reasonably understand that these two players may not even be in uniform or productive once a rebuild occurs?
If a Gm and front office didn’t truly believe this was a one year turn around, how were these decisions allowed to happen? The Giants clearly do not have a present and may have greatly jeapordized their future. So what we are left with is a directionless franchise, the worst place to be in the NFL.
I remember at the end of the 2004 team, feeling as good about a 6-10 squad that I had ever felt. Seeing Eli lead that game winning drive against the Cowboys let most of us go into the offseason with something I can’t tbjnk even the most optimistic fan has right now, hope. See, we could tolerate a 6-10 seaons because the team was building for what would eventually become a very nice run from 2005-2012. Most of us probably could have tolerated a 5-11 seaon this year if we knew there was a hot shot potential franchise qb waiting in the wings. That the Giants were truly building toward another sustained run of greatness. Now, there is no hope, no direction, and no leadership. So tell me, at this point what is the difference between the Cleveland Browns and New York Giants?
IMO, is a much greater problem then Shurmur. Most of this team now is players they he brought in. He is the one with the win now mentality and did whatever he thought was necessary to do that. He overpaid with old players, sacrificed future draft picks, and decided not to start rebuilding with a quarterback. Sixty percent of the 0-line are players he selected to improve what is and has been a glaring weakness. Gettleman, Shumur, and Bettcher have all brought in players from teams that they were connected to and all have done nothing to improve the Giants.
There is ZERO chance Getts or Shurmur get fired this year enemy if they go 0-16. It was brutally hard for Mara to fire BOTH the GM and coach in season. To make MORE changes the very next year is just not in his DNA. He will give them time to right the ship - and I think it's the right move.
but he could not have been more of a disrespectful douchebag in that interview. Just another NY shit stirring beat reporter. Was it a radio interview or a fucking deposition taken by an ambulance chasing lawyer? It had to be the 3rd time this week a member of the idiot reporters club, asked questions to try and get players, and now the coach to blame someone else.
Another example is the post game interview with Saquan Barkley in front of his locker. I don't know whick jerkoff asked him the question but it was kind of like "so do you think the rest of the offense has to do better". Barkley just looked at him and said "I don't think I understand exactly what you are asking". You could tell he just wanted to tell him to fuck off. There was another similar question asked to Ogletree I believe. Just all media bullshit. I wouldn't blame Shurmer if he didn't go back on 'Your Flagship Station For NY Giants Football The Fan" bro.
Simple and not even really worth debate. Before I get to my point, I don’t put much stock into the interview, I don’t think Schurmur was a great hire but that’s for other reasons.
For those of us who are old enough to remember, the Giants of 1985-2011 were really one of the premier and well run organizations in all of professional sports. Save for a few years (between Simms and Collins), they were regularly in contention. They had owners that’s really seems to get it and let football men run the operation. They had multiple GMs who had their flaws but could, for the most part understood team building. They also seemed to understand where the team was in terms of competitiveness.
One of the watershed moments in this franchises history was the 2004 offseason. They were sitting with a qb in his early 30s who had been above average to good for the team, and had even led them to s super bowl. However, Accorsi understood where the team was that offseason. A team with a lot of holes that wasn’t going to be fixed in one season. He also understood the opportunity in front of him to grab a potentially franchise changing qb at the top of the draft. And for those of you who remember, if the Giants couldn’t get Eli, they were taking Ben. Sure, they could have stuck with Collins and drafted Gallery or whoever fit the bill, but they were likely looking at a number of mediocre seaons in the future. However, those offsraons decisions in terms of not only qb, but also head coach completely altered the future of the Franchise.
Since 2012, I believe this team has a record of something like 33-50. That’s rock bottom in the NFL. Rather than make wholesale changes, this team continues to take the band aid approach. Culminating in last seaons offseason decisions to go all in on a team coming off a 3-13 seaons, preceded by 4 of 5 years out of the playoff. Clearly the Giants didn’t and really couldn’t remake the entire roster in one or even two years. So I ask, what was the point of going all in on a 37 year old qb and selecting a position with an average productive shelf life of 5 seaons? Now I’m not suggesting that Eli is the entire problem or that Barkley isn’t a greys talent, but how could one not reasonably understand that these two players may not even be in uniform or productive once a rebuild occurs?
If a Gm and front office didn’t truly believe this was a one year turn around, how were these decisions allowed to happen? The Giants clearly do not have a present and may have greatly jeapordized their future. So what we are left with is a directionless franchise, the worst place to be in the NFL.
I remember at the end of the 2004 team, feeling as good about a 6-10 squad that I had ever felt. Seeing Eli lead that game winning drive against the Cowboys let most of us go into the offseason with something I can’t tbjnk even the most optimistic fan has right now, hope. See, we could tolerate a 6-10 seaons because the team was building for what would eventually become a very nice run from 2005-2012. Most of us probably could have tolerated a 5-11 seaon this year if we knew there was a hot shot potential franchise qb waiting in the wings. That the Giants were truly building toward another sustained run of greatness. Now, there is no hope, no direction, and no leadership. So tell me, at this point what is the difference between the Cleveland Browns and New York Giants?
The Cleveland Browns have Baker Mayfield.
Kind of off topic: Anyone hear Raanan on 98.7 today? Â
He kind of alluded to sources telling him that Mara was always going to favor the guy who thought bringing Eli back was a good idea during the GM “search”.
2-- Don't agree that is was JUST Mara's wish. If a GM felt GMen weren't going to win, they'd have also drafted QB realizing long term a QB will probably be better. That's why they also took Solder. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid as much for Solder and Stewart and why you trade Ogaltree for draft picks. The GM thought this team was going to win.
Well, I've been through this quite a bit, so I'll keep it short.
Mara was really shaken by what happened to Eli last year. He did not want to see Eli end his career here with such turmoil.
So Mara brought in Accorsi, who drafted Eli, to consult on this big GM search. But in a matter of minutes - don't buy the press reports about days or weeks - Accorsi recommended Gettleman, who was there with Accorsi when they drafted Eli. Both men have talked glowingly about Eli and what he has done for the organization.
Shurmur is hired. The man who just made chicken salad out of that chicken sh-t QB Keenum. The perfect coach who could have the right recipe to rejuvenate Eli.
Then we hear how everyone has watched video of Eli and they all agree, coincidentally, that Eli still has all these wonderful attributes to lead this team back.
Mara loves Eli to Accorsi loves Eli to Gettleman loves Eli to Shurman can make everyone love Eli.
Pretty simple to trace all of this back to Mara's wishes...
You've convinced yourself that 1 plus 2 equals 12. In fact, the way you put it-- every player ever taken they were all "yes men" to Mara. Sure in a way-- they work for him. But your way you can convince yourself anything.
For example yoru way you can say Mara wanted Solder because he wanted to protect Eli so he told DG to get him. He wanted another older player in Stewart as backup so Eli can rely on another experienced back so Mara told DG to get him.
You see how that works?
I'm sure they share a similar vision but that doesn't make them a yes man. This OLine is putrid and Mara is not telling DG who to get. And as much as you and I think we should've went into rebuild-- wouldn't you agree if you were supposedly directed by Mara to play Eli, then wouldn't it be understood that DG was to do everything possible to get ELi a good offensive line? Because even a fool would know Eli is not mobile and is old for a QB.
SO this putrid OLine is on DG, isn't it? It doesn't make Eli better. Thus Mara who hired DG trusted DG to get a competent OLine for ELi didn't he?
Unless you think Mara wants to see ELi get destroyed (sarcasm)? You can't have it both ways here. Ask yourself is this OLine build for a guy like Eli? And who built this OLine? Was it Mara or DG (and/or PS)?
Gettleman was out of a job. He wanted back in the game. It wasn't like the Panthers had to grant permission to Mara for an interview. So whatever he was in Carolina isn't applicable. There is a youth movement underfoot in NFL front offices. Gettleman was 67 and close friend of Accorsi and a former member of Jints Central. If anybody would fall in line it's most definitely Gettleman. Remind me what other offers he had...?
Absolutely Mara had egg on his face.
True, he wanted to bench Eli, but it was a practical move because the season was sunk. However, when things went sideways with how the benching transpired, it is abundantly clear Mara was completely caught off guard. He said the resentment from fans and media was "overwhelming" and had a "profound affect" on him. And he was embarrassed.
It's Mara's team and wanted people who believed in Eli as much as he did. And that's precisely what he got - short of hiring Peyton as the OC... ;)
Well, he didn't have a play discussed with his QB to go to on Opening Day last week to start the second half and wasted what became a key timeout.
Right then, I started wondering about him. And that was before his odd decision to punt on 4th/inches near midfield in the first quarter only to go for it two drives later at his own 35.
You've convinced yourself that 1 plus 2 equals 12. In fact, the way you put it-- every player ever taken they were all "yes men" to Mara. Sure in a way-- they work for him. But your way you can convince yourself anything.
For example yoru way you can say Mara wanted Solder because he wanted to protect Eli so he told DG to get him. He wanted another older player in Stewart as backup so Eli can rely on another experienced back so Mara told DG to get him.
You see how that works?
I'm sure they share a similar vision but that doesn't make them a yes man. This OLine is putrid and Mara is not telling DG who to get. And as much as you and I think we should've went into rebuild-- wouldn't you agree if you were supposedly directed by Mara to play Eli, then wouldn't it be understood that DG was to do everything possible to get ELi a good offensive line? Because even a fool would know Eli is not mobile and is old for a QB.
SO this putrid OLine is on DG, isn't it? It doesn't make Eli better. Thus Mara who hired DG trusted DG to get a competent OLine for ELi didn't he?
Unless you think Mara wants to see ELi get destroyed (sarcasm)? You can't have it both ways here. Ask yourself is this OLine build for a guy like Eli? And who built this OLine? Was it Mara or DG (and/or PS)?
You're overthinking it. Mara got who he wanted to run the operations. Everyone shared the same goal - Eli is going to lead us.
So he trusted them to then build the parts around Eli on offense. I highly, highly doubt Mara was sorting through excel sheets of free agents and telling the team to go get X and Y.
They identified areas of need and targeted players to fill those needs. Unfortunately, it looks like they didn't get the right parts or enough parts to solve these existing problems.
why some people don't want to coach in the NYC market.
He doesn't have to do these interviews. FAN is paying him between $50 and $100K for these weekly spots as the Giants radio rights holder.
If he doesn't like the questions or doing the interviews, he can always turn the money down. But I'm sure he likes those five-figure checks deposited into his account.
Well, he didn't have a play discussed with his QB to go to on Opening Day last week to start the second half and wasted what became a key timeout.
Right then, I started wondering about him. And that was before his odd decision to punt on 4th/inches near midfield in the first quarter only to go for it two drives later at his own 35.
The receiver in the helmet didn't work so they couldn't discuss in the huddle. I'm pretty sure if they knew that was going to be the case, they would have discussed it before going onto the field, or gotten Eli another helmet.
As far as the 4th and inches flip-flop, I agree. If you're going to go in the 1st half down 10 from your own 35, you may as well go for it in the 1st drive down 7 from about midfield.
He should have never been fired by the head office. Reese should've been fired, and Mara should stop sticking his nose into the decision making. I know it's Mara's team, but he doesn't have a clue about choosing the right people to run his team.
He should have never been fired by the head office. Reese should've been fired, and Mara should stop sticking his nose into the decision making. I know it's Mara's team, but he doesn't have a clue about choosing the right people to run his team.
Just listened and the interview to me was not bad in any way. Skip to 5 minutes on the link above and you'll see Shurmur flat out say that what he says here doesn't necessarily reflect how he feels. That an on air interview isn't the spot to start talking about corrections.
I really don't understand..its like Mike expects him to admit that the entire offensive line needs wholesale change or that they suck after week 2. Okay so he says that and then what? Replace 3/5ths of your line? Let them continue to play and suck while their HC publicly rolled over them?
Mcadoo was the worst i've seen and Shurmur is not even close to that. McAdoo was itching to just say that everything was Eli's fault. Thats the vibe I always had with him. Most importantly with him, he continued to say the same shit after the Giants were like 2-10. Lets let Shurmur get there first and see if he's still doing interviews like this
You've convinced yourself that 1 plus 2 equals 12. In fact, the way you put it-- every player ever taken they were all "yes men" to Mara. Sure in a way-- they work for him. But your way you can convince yourself anything.
For example yoru way you can say Mara wanted Solder because he wanted to protect Eli so he told DG to get him. He wanted another older player in Stewart as backup so Eli can rely on another experienced back so Mara told DG to get him.
You see how that works?
I'm sure they share a similar vision but that doesn't make them a yes man. This OLine is putrid and Mara is not telling DG who to get. And as much as you and I think we should've went into rebuild-- wouldn't you agree if you were supposedly directed by Mara to play Eli, then wouldn't it be understood that DG was to do everything possible to get ELi a good offensive line? Because even a fool would know Eli is not mobile and is old for a QB.
SO this putrid OLine is on DG, isn't it? It doesn't make Eli better. Thus Mara who hired DG trusted DG to get a competent OLine for ELi didn't he?
Unless you think Mara wants to see ELi get destroyed (sarcasm)? You can't have it both ways here. Ask yourself is this OLine build for a guy like Eli? And who built this OLine? Was it Mara or DG (and/or PS)?
You're overthinking it. Mara got who he wanted to run the operations. Everyone shared the same goal - Eli is going to lead us.
So he trusted them to then build the parts around Eli on offense. I highly, highly doubt Mara was sorting through excel sheets of free agents and telling the team to go get X and Y.
They identified areas of need and targeted players to fill those needs. Unfortunately, it looks like they didn't get the right parts or enough parts to solve these existing problems.
No as I said you are making up 1 plus 2 equals 12. Yes ofc -- but what owner DOESN"T DO THIS if he cares about his team? He's going to slect a GM that shares his way of doing things. You cal that a "yes man" but it's not in this case.
Or the FAN moves on from him. Mike seemed to be baiting him the entire interview and Shurmur stuck to his guns. He's not there to throw guys under the bus or say anything of substance, he's like that in every interview. Schurmur might be the most boring interview I have ever heard but just because we got our ass kicked is he supposed to start acting emotional in the media?
"losing their jobs" is what it used to be. Unless cut they still get paid. BTW is Clay still on the team? Cutting him right after the game may have set a needed example.
RE: Kind of off topic: Anyone hear Raanan on 98.7 today? Â
He kind of alluded to sources telling him that Mara was always going to favor the guy who thought bringing Eli back was a good idea during the GM “search”.
But the Giants didnt conduct a GM search. They only interviewed an internal candidate whom they subsequently fired and a TV analyst with no experience. Neither of whom fit the criteria that John Mara stated he was looking for a new GM.
Among the other key names for GM openings this year are Nick Caserio (Patriots), Joey Clinkscales (Raiders), Eric DeCosta (Ravens), Don Gregory (Panthers), Brian Gutekunst (Packers), Trey Brown (Eagles), Will McClay (Cowboys), George Paton (Vikings), Jimmy Raye III (Texans), Eliot Wolf (Packers), Doug Williams (Redskins), Scott Pioli (Falcons) and Martin Mayhew (49ers).
None of these guys were ever interviewed.
It was a sham from the beginning. They knew they were hiring Gettleman.
So the coaches tell the offensive linemen, "Do your (blanking) job or else!!"
What's the else?
Reality smacked them in the face.
Woah. That was a fucking disaster.
They appear to be living in fantasy land.
Money. The NFL is entertainment, it generates a ton of revenues, most of it comes from advertising on TV and radio shows just like that one.
Does he have to say anything meaningful? No - but he should do a better job than he did with this one, even if it's all just BS spin.
Parcells and Coughlin were masters at because they both knew how to make the reporters fear them.
So Shurmur making the press ‘fear him’ would make everything ok?
Jesus. You’re so fucking obtuse on so many subjects, it’s fucking amazing.
Quote:
1-- Why go after Solder if we all knew the OL is was so bad?
2-- WHy bring back Eli?
3-- If we all felt we were in rebuild why not act like like it instead fo signing some of the older players
I'm not Eric, but...
1. IMV, when they missed on Norwell, Solder was the next option option in terms of available oline skill.
2. 100% Mara's wishes.
3. A true rebuild, which I think was the better option, would have been the end of Eli. And Mara was not ready for that. So they stitched together some off-season moves in the free agency period, went against conventional wisdom and took a RB over a future QB prospect, and then backed up the Brinks Truck for OBJ. All with this hope - cross your fingers and hope to catch lightening in a bottle on more time with Eli.
1-- I know they went after Solder but the problem with the GMen wasn't just one bad OL was it? It was more than one, right? For example why not pay for Fulton (OG) and Hubbard (OT) and not pay for Solder and Omameh and Stewart?
2-- Don't agree that is was JUST Mara's wish. If a GM felt GMen weren't going to win, they'd have also drafted QB realizing long term a QB will probably be better. That's why they also took Solder. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid as much for Solder and Stewart and why you trade Ogaltree for draft picks. The GM thought this team was going to win.
3-- I agree. I agree with you they should have been in rebuild mode. They showed though-- Mara and DG that they weren't in rebuild mode, didn't they? SO if this team doesn't bounce back -- you sort of begin at some point to seriously question their competency, wouldn't you?
4-- Add that PS is supposedly a super OL coach and great tactician, yet he has to be involved somewhat in the OL but secondly he opened up his mouth that only Allen was worth taking high at QB. It's not certain but we sort of have an inkling that he was pretty stupid there, wasn't he? Not that he made the wrong move yet-- just his evaluation of Darnold was pretty bad, wasn't it?
Link - ( New Window )
(BB started 0-4 as the Pats coach, on his way to a 5-11 inaugural season in 2000. Maybe Shurmur will follow that path. Sorry. I was out at trivia night & downed a few 'refreshments'. Let me dream.)
If someone doesn't want to coach here because they're afraid of having a 15 min conversation with Francessa on a weekly basis, then you don't want them anywhere near your football team.
So the coaches tell the offensive linemen, "Do your (blanking) job or else!!"
What's the else?
Speaking of Parcells and fear.
I was present to hear Phil Simms keynote an event. He told a Parcells story.
The team had been playing poorly and Simms was getting sacked a lot. They had a bad week of practice and Simms was getting crushed a lot. He said Parcells just tore into the OL like he had never seen. Screaming and cursing at them.To such an extent that practice stopped and the whole team was watching.
Simms said he stood behind Bill and was just nodding along.
Then he said “and you know who I blame?” And he turned around and said ‘You, Simms”.
Parcells proceeded to rip into Simms for not ripping into the OL.
The two of them had a terrible fight.
Present day Simms then told the crowd ‘and Bill was right. It was my fault”
Simms explained that an OL needs to feel personally responsible for the well being of the QB and its the QBs duty to make them feel that way. They needed to feel like it was “their QB” and his body and safety were their responsibility. Only the QB can make them feel that way. Simms said once he started to listen to Parcells and go after his OL when they let him down, then they started protecting him better.
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The great motivator is FEAR. Parcells understood this. The starting five doesn't go to work with the fear of losing their jobs right now because they know the Giants have no options to replace them. It would be different if we had a draft pick and/or a veteran OL sitting on the bench. We don't.
So the coaches tell the offensive linemen, "Do your (blanking) job or else!!"
What's the else?
Speaking of Parcells and fear.
I was present to hear Phil Simms keynote an event. He told a Parcells story.
The team had been playing poorly and Simms was getting sacked a lot. They had a bad week of practice and Simms was getting crushed a lot. He said Parcells just tore into the OL like he had never seen. Screaming and cursing at them.To such an extent that practice stopped and the whole team was watching.
Simms said he stood behind Bill and was just nodding along.
Then he said “and you know who I blame?” And he turned around and said ‘You, Simms”.
Parcells proceeded to rip into Simms for not ripping into the OL.
The two of them had a terrible fight.
Present day Simms then told the crowd ‘and Bill was right. It was my fault”
Simms explained that an OL needs to feel personally responsible for the well being of the QB and its the QBs duty to make them feel that way. They needed to feel like it was “their QB” and his body and safety were their responsibility. Only the QB can make them feel that way. Simms said once he started to listen to Parcells and go after his OL when they let him down, then they started protecting him better.
Man, I just don't see this kind of Parcells-Bellicheat-Coughlin motivational coaching in Shurmur. There's a reason Parcells has a coaching tree so big, the blue people from Avatar would worship and dance around it.
You are literally obsessed with Darnold much more than anyone on here is...and probably even more than Jets fans are, as well.
Very, very creepy.
2-- Don't agree that is was JUST Mara's wish. If a GM felt GMen weren't going to win, they'd have also drafted QB realizing long term a QB will probably be better. That's why they also took Solder. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid as much for Solder and Stewart and why you trade Ogaltree for draft picks. The GM thought this team was going to win.
Well, I've been through this quite a bit, so I'll keep it short.
Mara was really shaken by what happened to Eli last year. He did not want to see Eli end his career here with such turmoil.
So Mara brought in Accorsi, who drafted Eli, to consult on this big GM search. But in a matter of minutes - don't buy the press reports about days or weeks - Accorsi recommended Gettleman, who was there with Accorsi when they drafted Eli. Both men have talked glowingly about Eli and what he has done for the organization.
Shurmur is hired. The man who just made chicken salad out of that chicken sh-t QB Keenum. The perfect coach who could have the right recipe to rejuvenate Eli.
Then we hear how everyone has watched video of Eli and they all agree, coincidentally, that Eli still has all these wonderful attributes to lead this team back.
Mara loves Eli to Accorsi loves Eli to Gettleman loves Eli to Shurman can make everyone love Eli.
Pretty simple to trace all of this back to Mara's wishes...
When he made the point that basically not all of his opinions need to be shared at that time and place it made me feel better. As a fan, I certainly hope he can be a bit tougher on his players privately than what he’s willing to show on the radio.
As for the actual questions at hand, let’s face it, everyone in that building from Shurmur to Mara has to be sweating bullets about the fact that Solder, Hernandez and Omameh, specifically, have not been better than this so far. There has basically been no improvement.
Not only that, but guys like Ellison, Simonson and Smith who are around to help block, were all getting blown up, penalized or whiffing on blocks.
There might not be a whole lot you can do re: this o line, but you have to try. If I’m Shurmur, Wheeler and Pulley would both see action this week if the game starts out anything like Dallas. Flowers and Omameh can’t keep this up. You need to see if you can do better.
Eli's pocket has a huge hole in it, and it won't be fixed soon.
The Shurmur version was pretty funny at times,as opposed to Ben and Jerry Unplugged and Unconscious.
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and I guess one fuckstick isn't wasting any time:
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Yeah NY reporters will
Les in TO : 5:28 pm : link : reply
Call him out on his evasive answers and flat out lies like his answer to the third down throws short of the sticks yesterday.
I guess you ignored his press conference yesterday. I don’t know why you have so much anger to fans who are frustrated with the state of the team
He must be very pleasant in real life too js
You basically have to unlearn history to believe that the Giants have mandated Eli will be the QB and that everyone has to fall in line with that thinking.
Gettleman was fired in Carolina for standing up to the owner regarding how he planned to look at options for a couple veteran players. Anyone who thinks he came to NY and was mandated to keep Eli is ignoring the history. Shurmur didn't even have ties to the team and all of a sudden he's labeled as a yes man?
Your whole premise is that Mara had egg on his face from last year and built an entire management team around keeping Eli, and have based all the decisions around that plan. It is fantastical horseshit.
None of it makes logical sense. Mara supposedly wanted Eli benched, now he mandates he starts. Gettleman gets fired for standing up to the owner but is a lackey and yes man. Shurmur is trying desperately to remove the stain of Cleveland, yet he signs up to be a puppet?
The mental gymnastics and conspiracy theories around not picking a QB are ludicrous at this point. No doubt you'll continue to post the same mythology hundreds of more times, and it will be no more closer to the truth then as it is now.
For those of us who are old enough to remember, the Giants of 1985-2011 were really one of the premier and well run organizations in all of professional sports. Save for a few years (between Simms and Collins), they were regularly in contention. They had owners that’s really seems to get it and let football men run the operation. They had multiple GMs who had their flaws but could, for the most part understood team building. They also seemed to understand where the team was in terms of competitiveness.
One of the watershed moments in this franchises history was the 2004 offseason. They were sitting with a qb in his early 30s who had been above average to good for the team, and had even led them to s super bowl. However, Accorsi understood where the team was that offseason. A team with a lot of holes that wasn’t going to be fixed in one season. He also understood the opportunity in front of him to grab a potentially franchise changing qb at the top of the draft. And for those of you who remember, if the Giants couldn’t get Eli, they were taking Ben. Sure, they could have stuck with Collins and drafted Gallery or whoever fit the bill, but they were likely looking at a number of mediocre seaons in the future. However, those offsraons decisions in terms of not only qb, but also head coach completely altered the future of the Franchise.
Since 2012, I believe this team has a record of something like 33-50. That’s rock bottom in the NFL. Rather than make wholesale changes, this team continues to take the band aid approach. Culminating in last seaons offseason decisions to go all in on a team coming off a 3-13 seaons, preceded by 4 of 5 years out of the playoff. Clearly the Giants didn’t and really couldn’t remake the entire roster in one or even two years. So I ask, what was the point of going all in on a 37 year old qb and selecting a position with an average productive shelf life of 5 seaons? Now I’m not suggesting that Eli is the entire problem or that Barkley isn’t a greys talent, but how could one not reasonably understand that these two players may not even be in uniform or productive once a rebuild occurs?
If a Gm and front office didn’t truly believe this was a one year turn around, how were these decisions allowed to happen? The Giants clearly do not have a present and may have greatly jeapordized their future. So what we are left with is a directionless franchise, the worst place to be in the NFL.
I remember at the end of the 2004 team, feeling as good about a 6-10 squad that I had ever felt. Seeing Eli lead that game winning drive against the Cowboys let most of us go into the offseason with something I can’t tbjnk even the most optimistic fan has right now, hope. See, we could tolerate a 6-10 seaons because the team was building for what would eventually become a very nice run from 2005-2012. Most of us probably could have tolerated a 5-11 seaon this year if we knew there was a hot shot potential franchise qb waiting in the wings. That the Giants were truly building toward another sustained run of greatness. Now, there is no hope, no direction, and no leadership. So tell me, at this point what is the difference between the Cleveland Browns and New York Giants?
Another example is the post game interview with Saquan Barkley in front of his locker. I don't know whick jerkoff asked him the question but it was kind of like "so do you think the rest of the offense has to do better". Barkley just looked at him and said "I don't think I understand exactly what you are asking". You could tell he just wanted to tell him to fuck off. There was another similar question asked to Ogletree I believe. Just all media bullshit. I wouldn't blame Shurmer if he didn't go back on 'Your Flagship Station For NY Giants Football The Fan" bro.
For those of us who are old enough to remember, the Giants of 1985-2011 were really one of the premier and well run organizations in all of professional sports. Save for a few years (between Simms and Collins), they were regularly in contention. They had owners that’s really seems to get it and let football men run the operation. They had multiple GMs who had their flaws but could, for the most part understood team building. They also seemed to understand where the team was in terms of competitiveness.
One of the watershed moments in this franchises history was the 2004 offseason. They were sitting with a qb in his early 30s who had been above average to good for the team, and had even led them to s super bowl. However, Accorsi understood where the team was that offseason. A team with a lot of holes that wasn’t going to be fixed in one season. He also understood the opportunity in front of him to grab a potentially franchise changing qb at the top of the draft. And for those of you who remember, if the Giants couldn’t get Eli, they were taking Ben. Sure, they could have stuck with Collins and drafted Gallery or whoever fit the bill, but they were likely looking at a number of mediocre seaons in the future. However, those offsraons decisions in terms of not only qb, but also head coach completely altered the future of the Franchise.
Since 2012, I believe this team has a record of something like 33-50. That’s rock bottom in the NFL. Rather than make wholesale changes, this team continues to take the band aid approach. Culminating in last seaons offseason decisions to go all in on a team coming off a 3-13 seaons, preceded by 4 of 5 years out of the playoff. Clearly the Giants didn’t and really couldn’t remake the entire roster in one or even two years. So I ask, what was the point of going all in on a 37 year old qb and selecting a position with an average productive shelf life of 5 seaons? Now I’m not suggesting that Eli is the entire problem or that Barkley isn’t a greys talent, but how could one not reasonably understand that these two players may not even be in uniform or productive once a rebuild occurs?
If a Gm and front office didn’t truly believe this was a one year turn around, how were these decisions allowed to happen? The Giants clearly do not have a present and may have greatly jeapordized their future. So what we are left with is a directionless franchise, the worst place to be in the NFL.
I remember at the end of the 2004 team, feeling as good about a 6-10 squad that I had ever felt. Seeing Eli lead that game winning drive against the Cowboys let most of us go into the offseason with something I can’t tbjnk even the most optimistic fan has right now, hope. See, we could tolerate a 6-10 seaons because the team was building for what would eventually become a very nice run from 2005-2012. Most of us probably could have tolerated a 5-11 seaon this year if we knew there was a hot shot potential franchise qb waiting in the wings. That the Giants were truly building toward another sustained run of greatness. Now, there is no hope, no direction, and no leadership. So tell me, at this point what is the difference between the Cleveland Browns and New York Giants?
The Cleveland Browns have Baker Mayfield.
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2-- Don't agree that is was JUST Mara's wish. If a GM felt GMen weren't going to win, they'd have also drafted QB realizing long term a QB will probably be better. That's why they also took Solder. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid as much for Solder and Stewart and why you trade Ogaltree for draft picks. The GM thought this team was going to win.
Well, I've been through this quite a bit, so I'll keep it short.
Mara was really shaken by what happened to Eli last year. He did not want to see Eli end his career here with such turmoil.
So Mara brought in Accorsi, who drafted Eli, to consult on this big GM search. But in a matter of minutes - don't buy the press reports about days or weeks - Accorsi recommended Gettleman, who was there with Accorsi when they drafted Eli. Both men have talked glowingly about Eli and what he has done for the organization.
Shurmur is hired. The man who just made chicken salad out of that chicken sh-t QB Keenum. The perfect coach who could have the right recipe to rejuvenate Eli.
Then we hear how everyone has watched video of Eli and they all agree, coincidentally, that Eli still has all these wonderful attributes to lead this team back.
Mara loves Eli to Accorsi loves Eli to Gettleman loves Eli to Shurman can make everyone love Eli.
Pretty simple to trace all of this back to Mara's wishes...
You've convinced yourself that 1 plus 2 equals 12. In fact, the way you put it-- every player ever taken they were all "yes men" to Mara. Sure in a way-- they work for him. But your way you can convince yourself anything.
For example yoru way you can say Mara wanted Solder because he wanted to protect Eli so he told DG to get him. He wanted another older player in Stewart as backup so Eli can rely on another experienced back so Mara told DG to get him.
You see how that works?
I'm sure they share a similar vision but that doesn't make them a yes man. This OLine is putrid and Mara is not telling DG who to get. And as much as you and I think we should've went into rebuild-- wouldn't you agree if you were supposedly directed by Mara to play Eli, then wouldn't it be understood that DG was to do everything possible to get ELi a good offensive line? Because even a fool would know Eli is not mobile and is old for a QB.
SO this putrid OLine is on DG, isn't it? It doesn't make Eli better. Thus Mara who hired DG trusted DG to get a competent OLine for ELi didn't he?
Unless you think Mara wants to see ELi get destroyed (sarcasm)? You can't have it both ways here. Ask yourself is this OLine build for a guy like Eli? And who built this OLine? Was it Mara or DG (and/or PS)?
Absolutely Mara had egg on his face.
True, he wanted to bench Eli, but it was a practical move because the season was sunk. However, when things went sideways with how the benching transpired, it is abundantly clear Mara was completely caught off guard. He said the resentment from fans and media was "overwhelming" and had a "profound affect" on him. And he was embarrassed.
It's Mara's team and wanted people who believed in Eli as much as he did. And that's precisely what he got - short of hiring Peyton as the OC... ;)
Well, he didn't have a play discussed with his QB to go to on Opening Day last week to start the second half and wasted what became a key timeout.
Right then, I started wondering about him. And that was before his odd decision to punt on 4th/inches near midfield in the first quarter only to go for it two drives later at his own 35.
You've convinced yourself that 1 plus 2 equals 12. In fact, the way you put it-- every player ever taken they were all "yes men" to Mara. Sure in a way-- they work for him. But your way you can convince yourself anything.
For example yoru way you can say Mara wanted Solder because he wanted to protect Eli so he told DG to get him. He wanted another older player in Stewart as backup so Eli can rely on another experienced back so Mara told DG to get him.
You see how that works?
I'm sure they share a similar vision but that doesn't make them a yes man. This OLine is putrid and Mara is not telling DG who to get. And as much as you and I think we should've went into rebuild-- wouldn't you agree if you were supposedly directed by Mara to play Eli, then wouldn't it be understood that DG was to do everything possible to get ELi a good offensive line? Because even a fool would know Eli is not mobile and is old for a QB.
SO this putrid OLine is on DG, isn't it? It doesn't make Eli better. Thus Mara who hired DG trusted DG to get a competent OLine for ELi didn't he?
Unless you think Mara wants to see ELi get destroyed (sarcasm)? You can't have it both ways here. Ask yourself is this OLine build for a guy like Eli? And who built this OLine? Was it Mara or DG (and/or PS)?
You're overthinking it. Mara got who he wanted to run the operations. Everyone shared the same goal - Eli is going to lead us.
So he trusted them to then build the parts around Eli on offense. I highly, highly doubt Mara was sorting through excel sheets of free agents and telling the team to go get X and Y.
They identified areas of need and targeted players to fill those needs. Unfortunately, it looks like they didn't get the right parts or enough parts to solve these existing problems.
He doesn't have to do these interviews. FAN is paying him between $50 and $100K for these weekly spots as the Giants radio rights holder.
If he doesn't like the questions or doing the interviews, he can always turn the money down. But I'm sure he likes those five-figure checks deposited into his account.
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Well, he didn't have a play discussed with his QB to go to on Opening Day last week to start the second half and wasted what became a key timeout.
Right then, I started wondering about him. And that was before his odd decision to punt on 4th/inches near midfield in the first quarter only to go for it two drives later at his own 35.
The receiver in the helmet didn't work so they couldn't discuss in the huddle. I'm pretty sure if they knew that was going to be the case, they would have discussed it before going onto the field, or gotten Eli another helmet.
As far as the 4th and inches flip-flop, I agree. If you're going to go in the 1st half down 10 from your own 35, you may as well go for it in the 1st drive down 7 from about midfield.
I really don't understand..its like Mike expects him to admit that the entire offensive line needs wholesale change or that they suck after week 2. Okay so he says that and then what? Replace 3/5ths of your line? Let them continue to play and suck while their HC publicly rolled over them?
Mcadoo was the worst i've seen and Shurmur is not even close to that. McAdoo was itching to just say that everything was Eli's fault. Thats the vibe I always had with him. Most importantly with him, he continued to say the same shit after the Giants were like 2-10. Lets let Shurmur get there first and see if he's still doing interviews like this
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You've convinced yourself that 1 plus 2 equals 12. In fact, the way you put it-- every player ever taken they were all "yes men" to Mara. Sure in a way-- they work for him. But your way you can convince yourself anything.
For example yoru way you can say Mara wanted Solder because he wanted to protect Eli so he told DG to get him. He wanted another older player in Stewart as backup so Eli can rely on another experienced back so Mara told DG to get him.
You see how that works?
I'm sure they share a similar vision but that doesn't make them a yes man. This OLine is putrid and Mara is not telling DG who to get. And as much as you and I think we should've went into rebuild-- wouldn't you agree if you were supposedly directed by Mara to play Eli, then wouldn't it be understood that DG was to do everything possible to get ELi a good offensive line? Because even a fool would know Eli is not mobile and is old for a QB.
SO this putrid OLine is on DG, isn't it? It doesn't make Eli better. Thus Mara who hired DG trusted DG to get a competent OLine for ELi didn't he?
Unless you think Mara wants to see ELi get destroyed (sarcasm)? You can't have it both ways here. Ask yourself is this OLine build for a guy like Eli? And who built this OLine? Was it Mara or DG (and/or PS)?
You're overthinking it. Mara got who he wanted to run the operations. Everyone shared the same goal - Eli is going to lead us.
So he trusted them to then build the parts around Eli on offense. I highly, highly doubt Mara was sorting through excel sheets of free agents and telling the team to go get X and Y.
They identified areas of need and targeted players to fill those needs. Unfortunately, it looks like they didn't get the right parts or enough parts to solve these existing problems.
No as I said you are making up 1 plus 2 equals 12. Yes ofc -- but what owner DOESN"T DO THIS if he cares about his team? He's going to slect a GM that shares his way of doing things. You cal that a "yes man" but it's not in this case.
Or the FAN moves on from him. Mike seemed to be baiting him the entire interview and Shurmur stuck to his guns. He's not there to throw guys under the bus or say anything of substance, he's like that in every interview. Schurmur might be the most boring interview I have ever heard but just because we got our ass kicked is he supposed to start acting emotional in the media?
But the Giants didnt conduct a GM search. They only interviewed an internal candidate whom they subsequently fired and a TV analyst with no experience. Neither of whom fit the criteria that John Mara stated he was looking for a new GM.
Among the other key names for GM openings this year are Nick Caserio (Patriots), Joey Clinkscales (Raiders), Eric DeCosta (Ravens), Don Gregory (Panthers), Brian Gutekunst (Packers), Trey Brown (Eagles), Will McClay (Cowboys), George Paton (Vikings), Jimmy Raye III (Texans), Eliot Wolf (Packers), Doug Williams (Redskins), Scott Pioli (Falcons) and Martin Mayhew (49ers).
None of these guys were ever interviewed.
It was a sham from the beginning. They knew they were hiring Gettleman.