Is there a scenario where Gettleman/Shurmur get fired?

In comment 14084730 AnnapolisMike said:

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even if they go 0-16 the Giants will stay the course. The Giants went thru a reasonable process to get to Shumur and DG. They will get 2-3 years to move in the right direction. The Giants are going to win some games. The defense is decent and the OL will get better over time.

I wouldn't say they went through a reasonable process to get DG. They wanted him all along.

In comment 14084819 JonC said:

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Give it a rest. Mara made a predictable hire, and I question just how hard he looked given hiring Accorsi, etc.

I think it went like this over the phone initially:
Mara: “Hello Ernie. It’s John. Hey listen we just relieved Jerry of...”
Accorsi: “Hire Dave...hire Dave!”
Mara: “you didn’t let me finish, but OK. We’ll pay you for that astute recommendation too. First we’ll line up some fake interviews so it doesn’t look like this was predetermined”
Accorsi: “Sounds good Boss. Hey, want to hear about that time I was having a catch with Bert Jones?”
Mara: “No.”

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I know this is likely a 0.001% chance, but what if this season spirals out of control?

Obviously, we'd all rather be talking more positively about the team, but I don't see what's wrong with what he's asking here.

Mrs. Mara or Mrs, Tisch and posted the pics on the internet they would be fired. Beyond that, they inherited a mess. I think ownership would give them a few seasons to clean it up.

Marc Ross - Reese right hand man

Kevin Abrams - worked under Reese

Dave Gettleman - worked under Accorsi & Reese

Louis Riddick - no NYG background

It is completely fair to be critical of the GM search.

In comment 14084885 Sean said:

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Marc Ross - Reese right hand man Kevin Abrams - worked under Reese Dave Gettleman - worked under Accorsi & Reese Louis Riddick - no NYG background It is completely fair to be critical of the GM search.

IF you were to be fair, you should also list the guys we SHOULD HAVE interviewed and why they COULD HAVE been better than DG.

Pioli is an assistant in Atl, Dorsey was on the market (and there was some rumored interest there just before Cleveland jumped on him). Wolf from GB. And there's probably a laundry list of other up and coming candidates that we wouldn't know by name but that NFL circles have their eyes on.

If we were in corporate America and ran this search, it would be obvious to anyone watching that it was just a show. Riddick was the only one we gave serious consideration to, and he had limited experience.

like a half assed move. But he's not unqualified. He did a fine job building Carolina. I think the perception of "win now" no complete overhaul is driven by Eli. As long as he's here, it seems like we are still trying to win. I don't believe any of the off season moves were anything more than trying to improve the roster. Eli's salary made it impossible to dump him this year. And there was no way he wasn't going to play after last years media horror show so we are stuck for this year. They did the best they could to overhaul the OL. We can scream and yell all we want but they tried. It hasn't gone well but it's not for lack of trying.
At this point I can't see ANY way Manning is here next year. There wil be more roster upgrade and the fact that this is really a rebuild will be more evident. I'm as pissed off as everyone else but I will looking for improvement. That's all we have.

The issue I have is DG is 67, Eli is 37, and my amateur eye looked at this roster last January and said blow it up.

The professionals saw the inverse. That bothers me, erodes my confidence to an extent in their abilities. I wonder if they truly believed they were equipped to make a run, or were they aware it was more likely a transitional season which had a potential to get ugly, ugly.

Of course, we're only two games in and I didn't expect immediate results, I expected pain and 2-3 offseasons of work ahead ... but this thing still stinks.

In comment 14084801 Britt in VA said:

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It has made a few, not saying you Sean, unhinged. It really may have pushed some here over the edge.

Nah. There were plenty of us who were iffy at best on hiring Gettleman the day it was announced.

In comment 14084921 Dave on the UWS said:

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He did a fine job building Carolina.

I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it - the team that made the Super Bowl had little to do with Dave Gettleman. Almost all of their best players were on the roster already the day he was hired: Newton, Olson, Davis, Norman, Kuechly.

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should be fired after one year unless they pull crap like Lane Kiffin in Oakland

the Mara's will handle it that way. Probably after 2019. Shurmur has at least 2019. The same people who give Gettleman credit for Carolina going to the Super Bowl think Tom Coughlin built the current Jaguar team and that Bill Parcells screwed the Giants out of Bill Belichick. None of that surprises me and none of it is true.

Before each game thus far you told us you had a feeling our offense would light it up and we'd win. Are you sure you want to be questioning other people's grip on reality?

This whole situation reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Carl Sagan: "The thing about science is it's after the way the universe really is, and not what makes us feel good. A lot of the competing doctrines are after what feels good and not what's true."

That's how I see this situation. On one hand you have faith: "It's only two games. The professionals know more than we do. Let's put our trust in them."

On the other hand you have numbers:

- 67 year old GM
- 37 year old QB with $45M cap hit over 2 years
- 21 year old QB with $30M cap hit over 4 years
- Average RB career length: 2.57 years
- Average PPG since we drafted Beckham (~$20M cap hit next 4 years): 21

The numbers tell me a story I don't like, and I'm not a man of faith.

would have been fine moving on from Eli, presumably by selecting Darnold.

DG was the "safe" choice the Giants wanted after the debacle that was last season. With the caveat that's it's just been two games, I am less convinced now of the wisdom of some of his moves, including signing Solder, Omameh, and trading for Ogletree. I wonder whether we should have signed Cameron Fleming. The irony is that his draft looks excellent. We obviously know nothing about Lauletta and McIntosh, but Barkley, Carter, and Hill were all excellent picks.

If they had not screwed up the Eli benching.

Why would DG and Shurmur be fired during this season?

They will both be back next year

I don't think Mara is a very good owner to be honest. We may very well be on the path to having an owner who fires everybody every other year. That's never been the Giant way but up until the last few years, John Mara hasn't been faced with all that many difficult decisions since taking over as owner. And he's making a lot of mistakes in the decisions he makes. There is a very real chance they start 0-7. At that point what are you supposed to say? I guess you can say give them all another year, but will things really be the drastically different in year 2?

- 21 year old QB with $30M cap hit over 4 years

In comment 14085119 Doomster said:

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- 21 year old QB with $30M cap hit over 4 years

He meant RB.

In comment 14085121 BrettNYG10 said:

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In comment 14085119 Doomster said: Quote: - 21 year old QB with $30M cap hit over 4 years He meant RB.

No I did not. That's Darnold's age and cost. Compare it to Eli's.

In comment 14085132 Go Terps said:

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In comment 14085121 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: In comment 14085119 Doomster said: Quote: - 21 year old QB with $30M cap hit over 4 years He meant RB. No I did not. That's Darnold's age and cost. Compare it to Eli's.

You're right, sorry. I misread.

Eli Manning get the shit beaten out of him every week? He's arguably the best QB in the history of this franchise, and he's sent out there every Sunday without a line to protect him and without the ability to protect himself. He's a punching bag for opposing defenses. The only intrigue in this season - and last season - is which hit will result in him being carted off the field. I have zero excitement whatsoever for Giants/Texans this Sunday at 1 p.m., and for good reason. No one's gone off the deep end, we're just rightfully fed up. Why aren't you?

There's a difference between being optimistic and being patient.

I've been accursed of not being fed up and of being optimistic here.

No, I'm just being a little more patient. And yes, I'm still optimistic. I'm willing to give it time and not tear it all down after two games.

Terps, I said Beckham would roast Ramsey in week 1. He did. I did not say we would win only that I thought we could be competitive. We were.

I was wrong about Dallas. I thought we would explode on Dallas and I was wrong.

This franchise has been playing bad football for five years. They're playing bad football now. They've destroyed the second half of Eli's career through incompetence...there's a good chance he ends up with a sub-.500 record as a starter. The memory we're going to be left with is a broken QB that couldn't take his eyes off the pass rush. That infuriates me.

When should we stop being patient? Had we brought fresh eyes in at GM then I'd be more inclined to that, but we did not. We only interviewed one guy (Riddick) with no ties to the organization. The GM threw Eli out in front of an incompetent offensive line, not only destroying Eli's but Beckham's and Barkley's chances at achieving to their full potential.

When does this bullshit stop earning our benefit of the doubt?

We’ve turned over 2/3 of the roster in one offseason with more to come.

For me personally, the choice is either try to be optimistic and patient, or stop watching because I don’t want to be miserable. I’m not there yet. Maybe I will be, but not yet.

If they get caught on video with a bunch of nazis and clickers marching with tiki torches chanting 'the jews will not replace us'

short of that they are not getting fired.

In comment 14084775 Britt in VA said:

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last year. And you think they're going to turn around and fire the next one 2 games into his first season? Basically meaning the Giants would have 4 different head coaches in under 12 months? Get a hold of yourselves.

Eddie DeBartolo had five coaches in three years.

Monte Clark 1976
Ken Meyer 1977
Pete McCully 1978 (fired after 1-8 start)
Fred O-Conner 1978 (fired at end of season after going 1-6)
Bill Walsh 1979 (considered GOAT by many)


So, changing coaches constantly is generally not a good idea. But sometimes it is a matter of finding a great coach rather than sticking with a mediocre one for the sake of continuity.

I expect(ed) to win this year, based on the following reasons:

-Sticking with Eli
-Drafting Barkley
-Signing Solder
-Trading future assets for Ogletree
-Spending next years 3rd round pick on Beal
-Signing Beckham

In my opinion, you can’t make those moves and then say “it’s a rebuilding year”....pressure is on to win.

In comment 14085376 Sean said:

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I expect(ed) to win this year, based on the following reasons: -Sticking with Eli -Drafting Barkley -Signing Solder -Trading future assets for Ogletree -Spending next years 3rd round pick on Beal -Signing Beckham In my opinion, you can’t make those moves and then say “it’s a rebuilding year”....pressure is on to win.

That is a completely fair expectation to have had based on the actions taken this offseason. To see them as fundamentally dysfunctional on the OL as they've been is offensive.

32 years and it has never been this bad.

In comment 14084885 Sean said:

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Marc Ross - Reese right hand man Kevin Abrams - worked under Reese Dave Gettleman - worked under Accorsi & Reese Louis Riddick - no NYG background It is completely fair to be critical of the GM search.

Just to tidy up your comments for accuracy...the fake GM search.

You have to include the key piece where Mara co-conspired with his trusted wizard Accorsi to hire pro-Eli, anti-Analytics, AARP eligible Gettleman...

The only thing missing from that pile of shit was calling Mara "Jints Central".

there is NFW John gets rid of Gettleman. I mean NFW.

That hire may be as good as a US Supreme Court seat. Until Gettleman dies or leaves on his own terms...

In comment 14085441 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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The only thing missing from that pile of shit was calling Mara "Jints Central".

See the Young Andrew Belichick thread!

by the way, this exact thing was said about Reese:

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That hire may be as good as a US Supreme Court seat. Until Gettleman dies or leaves on his own terms..

arniefez, micky and Doomster touted that line over and over again, with references not to the Supreme Court, but to the Pope.

When you look around and see that as the company espousing your views, you may want to run and hide.

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In comment 14085447 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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by the way, this exact thing was said about Reese: Quote: That hire may be as good as a US Supreme Court seat. Until Gettleman dies or leaves on his own terms.. arniefez, micky and Doomster touted that line over and over again, with references not to the Supreme Court, but to the Pope. When you look around and see that as the company espousing your views, you may want to run and hide.

Those mother f-ckers. Mark and I used that back in the '80s when the search was on for Young's replacement.

To be fair, I don't really know those guys. I have seen arniefez and I must say, without knowing his history, I do like some of his views...

I'm sort of partial to the posters who constantly taunt and berate me... ;)

...

In comment 14085447 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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by the way, this exact thing was said about Reese: Quote: That hire may be as good as a US Supreme Court seat. Until Gettleman dies or leaves on his own terms.. arniefez, micky and Doomster touted that line over and over again, with references not to the Supreme Court, but to the Pope. When you look around and see that as the company espousing your views, you may want to run and hide.

I'm glad I suckered you into that..it worked!!

I never said anything about Gettleman being a lifetime appointment. What i did say is he won't be fired. He'll retire.

If the Giants go 0-16 I'm reasonably sure they get fired. Not under any other scenario.

Now, if the Giants finish miserably this year (as I suspect) and follow up with another miserable year next year, then I think the duo won't make it to 2020.

said you did:

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FMIC arniefez : 5:38 pm : link : reply I never said anything about Gettleman being a lifetime appointment. What i did say is he won't be fired. He'll retire.

You said Reese had a lifetime appointment. And guess what? He ain't dead.

Just get used to the idea that this whole season is one long training camp.

And this post.

It is good to see bw posting again after he took the lengthy sabbatical when we actually won superbowls. Wasn’t so much fun trolling the board then…

Here’s my take on some of these burning issues…and they do need separating out.

1. Gettleman. To my mind he’s a pretty perfect hire. He did well in Carolina, a roster is not just a few star players and he did a solid job building a consistently strong team. He was an excellent pro personnel director for us. The anti-analytics stuff is so overdone and people just sound stupid repeating it. The Giants use analytics extensively at all levels of the organization. It is reasonable to second guess the appointment vs Riddick but personally the latter has a lot to prove. I don’t think it is reasonable to suggest that ownership are scared to look beyond the org. Whichever way you cut it Gettleman is a hugely respected figure and a sensible hire.

2. Shurmur…Less of a clear opinion. He needs to prove himself and that starts now…honeymoon is def over.

3. Should we have rebuilt and should we have taken Darnold? I think the answer to both is no. You can rebuild on the fly in the NFL and I dispute that you want to put a young QB behind this OL. You’ll just end up with David Carr. Barkley is a huge talent, he will make any QB better immediately. He will make any franchise better. Based on what we’ve seen so far hall of fame looks a realistic possibility and he’s a leader. He’s a Marshall Faulk who will make a Kurt Warner look great. I totally understand the pro-QB argument and it will be tough if Darnold has a 15 year career but the only score that matters is superbowls and I do think Barkley will help us get one.

4. Are we trying to win now? Yes of course the team is. I think it is absolutely clear that the Giants thought they could win by putting together an average OL and a ton of weapons with Eli good enough to play 2 or 3 more years. Personally I was quite in favour of this. I think our D is decent and the weapons are almost unique. If Eli has time I see no issues with his arm and decision-making. The concerns are A) he’s shot from seasons of hits but I feel this underrates his toughness massively and B) the game is just very tough on a pocket passer these days. There’s something to that last one but Ryan, Brady and co are still very successful with the right surrounding talent. The issue of course is the OL needs to get to average to make this all work and they’re not. They’re terrible.

5. Is there any cause for optimism? Of course. The OL only needs to get to average and this team will start scoring. It is too good not to. Its all an OL story. I suspect they won’t be good enough to win with in 2018 and the front office miscalculated but you never know. Was it a gamble worth taking? I kinda think it was. If the OL can come together I think Eli can kill it with these skill players. It seems unlikely but taking one last shot whilst you have a QB who can get it done on the big stage is never a bad gamble.

6. I think re-signing Beckham was a no-brainer. Terps would literally come in 0-16 and $50m under the cap each year in his grand vision.

They are 2 games into their first Giants season, give it time. Remember they took over a 3-13 team. They likely have 3 years to turn it around, which is fair.

He inherited a mess that will not be fixed in one offseason. Anyone wishing for Gettleman to be fired needs to realize that ownership will likely just hand the job over to Abrams when Gettleman retires.

In comment 14086184 English Alaister said:

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6. I think re-signing Beckham was a no-brainer. Terps would literally come in 0-16 and $50m under the cap each year in his grand vision.

How does it make sense to pay Beckham when we can't even get him the ball? Beckham is by miles the most talented offensive player I've ever seen on the Giants, and the truth is the Giants have completely wasted him from day one and will continue to waste him this year. And they're already doing the same thing with Barkley.

You know what our record is since we drafted Beckham? 26-40. You know how many points we've scored per game since we drafted him? You want to know our PPG since we drafted him? 20.96.

The Giants have been severely misconstructed for years, and it continued this offseason. Anyone that feels good about where this team has been and currently is is living in a fucking fantasy world.

In comment 14086203 PatersonPlank said:

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They are 2 games into their first Giants season, give it time. Remember they took over a 3-13 team. They likely have 3 years to turn it around, which is fair.

3 years? Is that a joke?