| Ownership wasn't willing to concede a reboot, wasn't willing to admit that benching Eli a year ago actually was the right move (only not just one game; and one game for Geno Smith at that) and wasn't willing to fret over what that might mean in the stands and for the team's bottom line in the interim. It's awful similar to the folly of the 2017 Arizona Cardinals making another run with a cooked Carson Palmer, rather than be proactive and start the new cycle then. Better a year early, or at least on time, rather than a year late. |
Yup. I didn't mind hiring Shurmur, but the phony GM search, the obligatory "consulting" of Toupee Ernie, and the hiring of a Medicare recipient who is "Giants family" through and through was a mistake.
Didn't you say that the Jets having $90M in cap space is a good thing?
If the Giants lose again Sunday I would prefer to see the Giants look to make some trades before the deadline. I know trades can be difficult but I would look to unload Vernon, Snacks, Jenkins, and even Landon Collins. Teams would surely offer up a 1st round pick for Collins especially a team in win now mode. He is due an extension at seasons end which will be very costly for the Giants. Adding another 1st round pick would open a hole at safety but the future big cap hit of Collins while also giving the Giants more ammunition to trade up if they covet a QB.
If he's the right QB you have addressed the most important position long term. Then you can focus on addressing the rest of the roster in the draft rather than having to trade several picks to move up in the draft making it more difficult to improve the rest of the roster.
SMH. The QB could have sat for a year. The way Mahomes did last year.
If he's the right QB you have addressed the most important position long term. Then you can focus on addressing the rest of the roster in the draft rather than having to trade several picks to move up in the draft making it more difficult to improve the rest of the roster.
And, I'm sure you know this, you'd get the benefit of that first contract if said QB was the right QB.
See the LAR & Goff.
Is this at me?
Just because you draft a QB doesn't mean you're forced to start him immediately.
You're talking about bypassing the most impactful position in pro sports, and arguably the rarest, when you have the chance to get one because you have offensive line issues. Just draft him, sign one of the many veteran stopgap guys, and grow from there.
Gettleman is component, but he has mentioned the fact Eli is the reason he has 2 rings & he worked with Reese. I think it is fair to be concerned & wonder if a completely new voice with no prior NYG ties would be better.
Yes, he is arguably the most inaccurate insider in the NFL.
Quote:
have so often said is a know-nothing fool? Does he now have some kind of credibility? Just askin’
Is this at me?
I’d like it to be, but no, just a generalization. :)
Quote:
If he's the right QB you have addressed the most important position long term. Then you can focus on addressing the rest of the roster in the draft rather than having to trade several picks to move up in the draft making it more difficult to improve the rest of the roster.
And, I'm sure you know this, you'd get the benefit of that first contract if said QB was the right QB.
See the LAR & Goff.
The QB's on rookie contracts is one of the main benefits of taking a QB in the 1st round. If you hit on them you reap the rewards as evidenced by Seattle with Wilson and the Rams and Eagles with Goff on Wentz. It gives you a 4-5 year window to build up the rest of your roster while your QB is being paid well below market value. The Rams will have to release several of their big acquisitions once Goff gets his deal but they will likely be the older vets like Suh, Talib, Whitworth, Saffold, and Brockers.
Under Football Operations in the link below, only Gettleman and Koncz are names that weren't with the Giants last year. The other seven were. Moving to Pro Personnel, all have been with the Giants for at least a year (and the Director of Pro Personnel has been in his role for seven years and with the team for 17. The assistant director has been with the team for 14 years and in his current role since 2013).
I know there was some changes with the scouts, but much of the infrastructure from prior failures has remained the same.
Giants.com - ( New Window )
It sucks starting 0-2 with very little hope surrounding the team, but if a poster bothers you or you vehemently disagree with them and can’t contain yourself maybe just ignore them? I love reading debates on here and I get that sometimes they get a bit heated, but attacking people nonstop and acting like your opinions are gospel just comes across pompous and really annoying to listen to.
well said
Quote:
In comment 14085013 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
If he's the right QB you have addressed the most important position long term. Then you can focus on addressing the rest of the roster in the draft rather than having to trade several picks to move up in the draft making it more difficult to improve the rest of the roster.
And, I'm sure you know this, you'd get the benefit of that first contract if said QB was the right QB.
See the LAR & Goff.
The QB's on rookie contracts is one of the main benefits of taking a QB in the 1st round. If you hit on them you reap the rewards as evidenced by Seattle with Wilson and the Rams and Eagles with Goff on Wentz. It gives you a 4-5 year window to build up the rest of your roster while your QB is being paid well below market value. The Rams will have to release several of their big acquisitions once Goff gets his deal but they will likely be the older vets like Suh, Talib, Whitworth, Saffold, and Brockers.
Yes, exactly.
Lol and holy shitfuck...
He's going to retire with one year left on his contract?
Lol and holy shitfuck...
One would think that the irrationally confident Giants fan would have been humbled by last season's Eagles super bowl championship but I guess, just like ownership, some are just stuck in the past.
Jets have a young franchise QB, a more talented roster and tons of cap space to acquire premium players going forward. Will they fuck it up? Maybe so maybe not, but they are positioned for the future far better than the Giants at this point.
New Coaching Staff
New Offensive/Defensive Systems
And these articles are analyzing the Giants like they have done nothing to try to fix the team.
This franchise needs a win in the worst way this Sunday. Just to put a pause to this crap.
It's becoming insufferable!
If the Giants can make the OL workable...they will win some games. The defense is decent and they have weapons on offense. The mistake the Giants made was not keeping the starting OL on the field during preseason. Solder might turn out to be a bad signing...but 9 out of 10 of you would have done the same thing. And you would have drafted Hernandez as well.
+1
You know who had the most cap space in 2017?
Browns, Niners, Jaguars, Titans, Jets, Colts and Buccaneers
In 2016 it was:
Browns, Niners, Jaguars, Titans, Redskins and Panthers
In 2015, it was:
Jaguars, Titans, Browns, Raiders, Giants, Dolphins and Eagles
In 3 years, that represents 3 playoff teams.
In converse, in 3 years, the teams who used the most cap represent 10 playoff teams.
Having a lot of cap space means you didn't really use it very well.
Link - ( New Window )
We know that doesn't always work and you end up having players who don't meet their price tag.
The Giants have rarely had a lot of cap to work with, and this goes back to the early days since the cap was instituted. One time they did, In 2015, the Giants had cap space which led to their spree in 2016.
Having space provides flexibility, but the NFL cap guys are trying to stay enough under to have the ability to make moves while spending as much as they can within the contract structures.
But this much is true - having a lot of cap space is not good. It means you've underspent significantly.
Part of that is the choices they make (there have been a couple they've chosen not to meet market price).
The biggest part of cap management is having a steady plan, recognizing where the pieces are going to fit a year or two ahead, and structuring contracts accordingly. It isn't rocket science. it's accounting. I'd guess that those teams that have huge surpluses, or who fluctuate wildly, do so not because they don't know how to do accounting, but because ownership/management ride a roller coaster in spending (ie going for short term gain)/not spending (cash flow). The Giants are one of those teams who mostly opt for a long term rational plan, with occasional mortgage the future for a chance today.
There is absolutely no such goal. The singular goal is to win. And if you aren’t able to win (as in, be highly competitive), then your level of present failure may be somewhat mitigated by the amount of resources you’re able to carry into the future to help you win.
Now — if you’re consistently not spending anywhere near the cap season after season, that’s a pretty good indication that you aren’t maximizing your chances to be competitive. That doesn’t seem to be what you’re saying.
Looking at a team at a specific point in time and saying that the presence of significant cap room is patently bad is an absolutely ridiculous statement. By definition, if your level of past failure at a point in time is a given (i.e. can’t be changed), then having more cap space is superior to less.
What you say was almost certainly be true in a time where cap space didn’t carry forward. The carry-forward of cap space was a significant paradigm shift. Underratedly so, IMO.
A capologists goal is to have a perfect balance of spending vs. the contract particulars.
It is tough because they have to put contract structures in place that basically price a player out of getting to later years in his deal, even if he's a superstar. Then restructures, cuts and signing cheaper players happens.
Because of bad drafts, we needed to overspend in 2016 and to a certain extent going into this year. That's difficult for the capologist to manage and the GM has to wisely structure contracts. That's the glaring error with the Stewart contract. Too much guaranteed money.
A cap "guru" has no impact on winning or losing. He's just trying to work closely with the GM to make sure contracts are layered such so managing the cap is possible.
Quote:
He is right that the blame is on ownership, but it's for decisions that were made or not made long before last year's disaster.
The problem started in 2007 when Reese was promoted to GM. By 2012 it was obvious that changes had to be made - but they weren't. Then came the 2015 disaster when all the wrong moves (ditching TC, keeping Reese and Ross, hiring McAdoo) were made.
Last year's brain farts were nickle-dime by comparison.
Preaching to the Choir! I agree completely
+ 2.
It’s amazing that they Forced the canning Gilbride. The Fewell, then TC but never fired the guys who’s draft picks were failures year after year.
Half measures. Mara and Tisch are at the heart of the rot
Quote:
you think this is a good cap situation??
Quote:
For an example of a good cap situation look at the jets: they have a franchise qb and 90 million in cap space!
I bet you also think it is awesome to get a hefty tax return too!
If you think having $90M is being in a good cap position, you are a moron. A very, very big moron and you seemingly don't have a fucking clue on how the cap works.
$23 million in dead money this season, 6th least cap space in 2019 next season. And I'm a fucking moron who doesnt know how the cap works? LOL is right! DEAD MONEY = GREAT CAP SITUATION - ( New Window )
What about next year? Who the fuck cares about cap space in September?
Our cap situation is literally last on the list of things wrong here. Matter of fact it’s one of the few things that are right with this team going forward. This year’s cap is pointless.
Eli won’t be making billions here much longer. JPP comes off next year. We’re fine.
Draft a qb or develop lauletta and go from there. Eli has 14 more games to show someone that he can make one play behind a shaky ol and then he’s outta here. Make your peace with that.
A capologists goal is to have a perfect balance of spending vs. the contract particulars.
It is tough because they have to put contract structures in place that basically price a player out of getting to later years in his deal, even if he's a superstar. Then restructures, cuts and signing cheaper players happens.
Because of bad drafts, we needed to overspend in 2016 and to a certain extent going into this year. That's difficult for the capologist to manage and the GM has to wisely structure contracts. That's the glaring error with the Stewart contract. Too much guaranteed money.
A cap "guru" has no impact on winning or losing. He's just trying to work closely with the GM to make sure contracts are layered such so managing the cap is possible.
Agree that the Stewart contract was really bad. It’s not a big/long enough to really “set a franchise back” or anything like that, but it really started off the Gettleman era on a sour note for me.
Signing a RB of Stewart’s age / injury history / declining skill set to any deal at all was something I’d have preferred to avoid, but not something I’d get in a lather about...and then I saw the numbers.
Quote:
people should stop killing each other in general around here. The Eli for and against is becoming a little to intense. One negative word about Eli and people jump down your throat, same goes the other way. The draft argument will be around for awhile. Not taking a QB was a risky move no matter your stance on Eli. That doesn’t make it the wrong move definitively, it just is a very intense debate. It also doesn’t really go hand in hand with Eli debates. People seem intent on labeling other posters this or that way too often nowadays. Especially when it comes to Eli.
It sucks starting 0-2 with very little hope surrounding the team, but if a poster bothers you or you vehemently disagree with them and can’t contain yourself maybe just ignore them? I love reading debates on here and I get that sometimes they get a bit heated, but attacking people nonstop and acting like your opinions are gospel just comes across pompous and really annoying to listen to.
well said
I wish people would get a clue about the Carolina situation.
- Gettleman was fired because he threatened to release, trade or restructure Richardson's sacred cows
- Hurney is re-hired even though he was replaced for being ineffective because Richardson could trust him to carry out his wishes
- Richardson, who had acted erratic for several years, is forced to step down and sell the team.
Richardson has not hid the fact why Gettleman was let go or why Hurney was re-hired, yet certain fans on this board think Mara has some secret plan that Gettleman is being used for - the exact situation he ended up being fired for.
If people had a clue about Carolina, they would know how ludicrous the conspiracy theories sound.
The other people that share his view? They honestly come across as some of the most idiotic posters on this board. And they probably have kept the tin foil hat industry in business.
Fucking morons.
The other people that share his view? They honestly come across as some of the most idiotic posters on this board. And they probably have kept the tin foil hat industry in business.
Fucking morons.
I love you.
That's weird.
Quote:
To Eli in this situation because Carson Palmer hasn’t won anything and doesn’t really represent any team because of his journeyman status so who is La Canfora to make that distinction, obviously Eli doesn’t want to go elsewhere he wants to finish here .....MARA AGREES AND IS WILLING TO GO WITH ELI ONE LAST YEAR SINK OR SWIM ......But he’s not saying that to the fans or the press .....after that he can retire with no controversy holding all the giants records THIS IS WHAT MARA WANTS .
He's going to retire with one year left on his contract?
He might he certainly doesn’t need the money and he’s getting the shit kicked out of him every Sunday now ..... he wouldn’t be the first to walk away from that kind of money......I’m pretty sure of one thing he does not want to go to a new locker room at his age .I believe Mara wants this transition to go smooth but so did the 49ers with Montana and others....
all that, IMO was definitely a factor in the draft choice. It may have been an insignificant factor, or it may have been a huge factor, but it was there, being added into the equation. Image counts for a lot, and Mara crumbled under the spotlight during last season's Eli shitstorm, and he doesn't want a repeat of that.
It's hard to evaluate Eli with this lousy OL play, but if they decide to replace him at the end of the year, it could go smoothly with Eli deciding to retire rather than get fired. Or he could go kicking and screaming not wanting to face up to reality.
Eli could easily decide to retire even if they want him back. If the team isn't competitive, it would take a serious love of the game to go out there for a beating.
Quote:
Two of the best years any fan will ever have should guarantee him that. What if mara also feels guilty that he went along with jerry’s Notion of building from the outside in, rather than from the trenches out for all those years. Just maybe he feels guilty that he’s wasted the back end of Eli’s career by enabling this kind of leadership.
It starts at the top for sure, But it’s a very nuanced problem that we’ve all seen building for years now.
Thinking like this will keep the Giants non competitive for years. Also, for those saying it’s been two weeks, it’s been years and more specifically, 3-16 since Green Bay and 35 straight games under 30 points. This isn’t just two games.