| Ownership wasn't willing to concede a reboot, wasn't willing to admit that benching Eli a year ago actually was the right move (only not just one game; and one game for Geno Smith at that) and wasn't willing to fret over what that might mean in the stands and for the team's bottom line in the interim. It's awful similar to the folly of the 2017 Arizona Cardinals making another run with a cooked Carson Palmer, rather than be proactive and start the new cycle then. Better a year early, or at least on time, rather than a year late. |
2nd highest.
I'm not as concerned with Solder. He's playing next a rookie who is trying to figure things out. He'll be adequate.
Omameh, on the other hand is the biggest bust of a pickup we have ever had, at the moment.
Was Barrett Green suddenly erased from history?
Nobody wanted anything other than optimism.
They trusted Ereck Flowers yet again.
Omameh's contract is fully guaranteed through 2019.
Stewart is $3m worth of cap room on the bench spent on a shot player with faded athletic ability, and he's a poor fit behind a bad line.
Nate Solder's a good player, not an elite one, and his pass protection suffered last year.
If the Giants can make the OL workable...they will win some games. The defense is decent and they have weapons on offense. The mistake the Giants made was not keeping the starting OL on the field during preseason. Solder might turn out to be a bad signing...but 9 out of 10 of you would have done the same thing. And you would have drafted Hernandez as well.
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Omameh, on the other hand is the biggest bust of a pickup we have ever had, at the moment.
Was Barrett Green suddenly erased from history?
Why yes, I forget he even existed. Good call Greg, but I think he actually saw some playing time in Coughlin's first season, and played ok, before becoming constantly injured.
well, LaCanfora is a hack so it's not a surprise.
It starts at the top for sure, But it’s a very nuanced problem that we’ve all seen building for years now.
This is a silly claim.
The Giants need to settle the OL. As they have proved over the years, there are not enough quality LT out there, so if you fail in drafting one, the only option left is to overpay for one. That was where the Giants found themselves. They knew they couldn't keep running Flowers out there at LT, meaning that an overpay in FA was the sole option.
Solder will be the LT for this year, next year and the year after (due to the guaranteed money)- stablizing the position for several years while they try to solve the other 4 spots.
Omameh is a stop-gap, nothing more. The Giants had no serious in-house candidates and had to sign what they could afford to.
When the season is over, Omameh will be cut. Sure, he will count for $3.1M in dead money, but they will gain $3.2M in cap space cutting him. Not a big deal.
The Giants didn't have the cap space to permanently fill the spots and didn't have the draft picks to fill 4 holes on the OL.
This off-season, the Giants could have as much as $70M in cap space when and if they cut the high cost vets (read as Eli, Vernon, Jenkins, Ogletree and Omameh). That will allow them to afford and sign better long term options at OL and other holes.
In short, criticizing the Giants for signing Solder and Omameh is silly and lacks a basic understanding of the cap situation then and going forward.
Agree that if stepping into this mess like DG did, his only options for OL was the free agent pool that was available to him at this time.
That being said, they should have plugged the left tackle hole the year before. That is on Reese and Mara. Not making excuses for DG but he could only make so many moves with the budget he had AND while knowing he also had to sign OBJ.
For now, I want to put the blame for the past two games on coaching. When Solder comes out and says they did not pickup any of their assignments on Sunday, then something is wrong with preparation or Xs and Os more than it is a personnel issue (not that personnel is also not a factor here). Solder cannot be that much worse than he played last year. So... what is different here?
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Omameh, on the other hand is the biggest bust of a pickup we have ever had, at the moment.
Was Barrett Green suddenly erased from history?
Carlos Emmons and Barrett Green
The Bust Brothers
First of all, no player deserves anything other than what his contract states... period. As a season ticket holder who pays A LOT of money, I really dont give a shit about any player's feelings. I am paying to watch a quality football team on the field. I expect management to do that regardless as to WHO on the roster it may impact. So, if we drafted Mahomes for example... then goodbye Eli. End of story.
Now regarding your two best years a fan will ever have comment. Are you about 30 yrs old? You obviously did not live through the 1986 season. That was the best year for a Giants fan. When you have decades of living in the basement and then you have a team that is so dominant and you win your first championship, then that is the pinnacle. How did that work out for Phil Simms?
Also, part of the reason they are Cap constrained is Eli - he's getting paid a ton of money - he needs to play better, regardless of the O-Line.
That is what is going to hurt us .. bad contracts BUT what really were the alternatives????
Nobody wanted anything other than optimism.
They trusted Ereck Flowers yet again.
Omameh's contract is fully guaranteed through 2019.
Stewart is $3m worth of cap room on the bench spent on a shot player with faded athletic ability, and he's a poor fit behind a bad line.
Nate Solder's a good player, not an elite one, and his pass protection suffered last year.
We have been lambasted for being concerned all the way back into the middle of last season. This has been a complete organizational failure for years. Hiring Gettleman was red meat for the fans (firing Reese) but did not change the fact that the Maras still run player personnel and that they were not changing the way that the decision making is done. An outsider with a fresh new approach who prioritizes positional value and analytics was what they needed.
Intead, they hire a retread who shits on analytics and smart people with computers! It was doomed from the start. They had an opportunity to clear out bad contracts, get either a young QB or other young players/assets and do a real and necessary rebuild. Instead they chose to overpay marginal players, trade away picks (insane), draft a RB (more insane) - going all in on a 3-13 team with a diminished if not finished QB.
We are not reacting to two games. We are reacting to how bad these decisions have been. We are reacting to the lack of forward thinking and strategic planning. We are reacting to the fact that this team has not stockpiled picks. We are reacting to the fact that we have a shit cap situation. (Kevin Abrams cap guru LOL). We are reacting to the fact that best case scenario this team wins 6 games!
There is a big difference between losing with and without a purpose. Right now the Giants are old and bad, losing with no purpose and no hope for the future. That's 100% on the Maras and they deserve all the criticism and embarrassment they can get.
Sean : 9:02 am : link : reply
yield the same results.
I was told they needed to have drafted a QB.
So basically, a new GM, a new coach, a new starting OL, drafting the top rated player in the draft, bring in a few vet LB's and 33 different players in total is a "half-measure", but if we had a different QB, it wouldn't be?
Terrible, terrible logic.
It starts at the top for sure, But it’s a very nuanced problem that we’ve all seen building for years now.
Thinking like this will keep the Giants non competitive for years. Also, for those saying it’s been two weeks, it’s been years and more specifically, 3-16 since Green Bay and 35 straight games under 30 points. This isn’t just two games.
We aren't and we are in a good position going forward with contracts that can be terminated or restructured to give us flexability with the cap.
Just an FYI - you want to be up against the cap each year - you don't want to be millions below it.
Abrahms is one of the best cap guys out there and some fucking moron gives him a LOL?? Fuck me.
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to throw roses at Gettleman right away. And the people who expressed concern were screamed at for being concerned.
Nobody wanted anything other than optimism.
They trusted Ereck Flowers yet again.
Omameh's contract is fully guaranteed through 2019.
Stewart is $3m worth of cap room on the bench spent on a shot player with faded athletic ability, and he's a poor fit behind a bad line.
Nate Solder's a good player, not an elite one, and his pass protection suffered last year.
We have been lambasted for being concerned all the way back into the middle of last season. This has been a complete organizational failure for years. Hiring Gettleman was red meat for the fans (firing Reese) but did not change the fact that the Maras still run player personnel and that they were not changing the way that the decision making is done. An outsider with a fresh new approach who prioritizes positional value and analytics was what they needed.
Intead, they hire a retread who shits on analytics and smart people with computers! It was doomed from the start. They had an opportunity to clear out bad contracts, get either a young QB or other young players/assets and do a real and necessary rebuild. Instead they chose to overpay marginal players, trade away picks (insane), draft a RB (more insane) - going all in on a 3-13 team with a diminished if not finished QB.
We are not reacting to two games. We are reacting to how bad these decisions have been. We are reacting to the lack of forward thinking and strategic planning. We are reacting to the fact that this team has not stockpiled picks. We are reacting to the fact that we have a shit cap situation. (Kevin Abrams cap guru LOL). We are reacting to the fact that best case scenario this team wins 6 games!
There is a big difference between losing with and without a purpose. Right now the Giants are old and bad, losing with no purpose and no hope for the future. That's 100% on the Maras and they deserve all the criticism and embarrassment they can get.
Bingo, I wrote something similar in the Schurmur interview thread.
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We are reacting to the fact that we have a shit cap situation. (Kevin Abrams cap guru LOL)
We aren't and we are in a good position going forward with contracts that can be terminated or restructured to give us flexability with the cap.
Just an FYI - you want to be up against the cap each year - you don't want to be millions below it.
Abrahms is one of the best cap guys out there and some fucking moron gives him a LOL?? Fuck me.
You come in every thread all day long lob insults at people who disagree with you. Classic internet tough guy who brings nothing substantive to the discussion. You're just a Pollyanna for everything this franchise does despite being wrong all the time. I'd say get off your high horse but you cant fit a horse in your mom's basement.
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actual LOL here is that you think we are in a bad cap situation:
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We are reacting to the fact that we have a shit cap situation. (Kevin Abrams cap guru LOL)
We aren't and we are in a good position going forward with contracts that can be terminated or restructured to give us flexability with the cap.
Just an FYI - you want to be up against the cap each year - you don't want to be millions below it.
Abrahms is one of the best cap guys out there and some fucking moron gives him a LOL?? Fuck me.
You come in every thread all day long lob insults at people who disagree with you. Classic internet tough guy who brings nothing substantive to the discussion. You're just a Pollyanna for everything this franchise does despite being wrong all the time. I'd say get off your high horse but you cant fit a horse in your mom's basement.
I have to agree with this one, especially lately.
You've said that the cap is fucked and Abrahms isn't a cap guru - and he's damn good at managing the cap.
I come into threads and lob insults at posters who don'
t fucking know what they are talking about. Do you see me insulting JonC? Do you see me insulting people who are reasonable and not making shit up?
If I'm refuting a point, even a shitty one - I'll say why that point is wrong, but I guess that isn't "substance" because it is preceded with calling you a fucking moron?
The substance here is that we aren't in a terrible cap situation, especially going forward and Abrahms is good at his job.
And yes - you are a fucking moron.
To me, I get why they signed Solder, OV, etc. Open market contracts when you're desperate are tough pills to swallow. Part of me would rather tear it all down and get started on the future, rather than prop up around Eli now.
That's really the crux of the whole thing, did you want to blow it up last Winter or give it a college try around Eli.
There weren't a lot of moves that could be made without having a lot of dead money.
It sucks starting 0-2 with very little hope surrounding the team, but if a poster bothers you or you vehemently disagree with them and can’t contain yourself maybe just ignore them? I love reading debates on here and I get that sometimes they get a bit heated, but attacking people nonstop and acting like your opinions are gospel just comes across pompous and really annoying to listen to.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the notion that all the offensive line needs is to work together more. However, a lot of people do and it sounds like the coaches do also. If that's the case that they need to work together then why just play them one period in preseason? Play them 3 quarters in every game, even the last one. Wouldn't that make sense?
There weren't a lot of moves that could be made without having a lot of dead money.
Agree, but I also do suspect some of this will include DG, in time. Shurmur ... didn't love the choice either but he's working with a small shopping basket right now.
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You come in every thread all day long lob insults at people who disagree with you. Classic internet tough guy who brings nothing substantive to the discussion. You're just a Pollyanna for everything this franchise does despite being wrong all the time.
You've said that the cap is fucked and Abrahms isn't a cap guru - and he's damn good at managing the cap.
I come into threads and lob insults at posters who don'
t fucking know what they are talking about. Do you see me insulting JonC? Do you see me insulting people who are reasonable and not making shit up?
If I'm refuting a point, even a shitty one - I'll say why that point is wrong, but I guess that isn't "substance" because it is preceded with calling you a fucking moron?
The substance here is that we aren't in a terrible cap situation, especially going forward and Abrahms is good at his job.
And yes - you are a fucking moron.
You refuted nothing fat man in mom’s basement. For an example of a good cap situation look at the jets: they have a franchise qb and 90 million in cap space! The giants have to restructure/cut and no matter what they do they cannot get to that much cap space. Also, cutting players results in DEAD MONEY. How is that a “good” position? We are a terrible football team and bottom 10 cap position! That’s not how good organizations are run. On the bright side, hopefully mom is making stove top for you tonight.
Nobody wanted anything other than optimism.
They trusted Ereck Flowers yet again.
Omameh's contract is fully guaranteed through 2019.
Stewart is $3m worth of cap room on the bench spent on a shot player with faded athletic ability, and he's a poor fit behind a bad line.
Nate Solder's a good player, not an elite one, and his pass protection suffered last year.
Yes esp by a certain "fat" person
There weren't a lot of moves that could be made without having a lot of dead money.
Hi, i just responded to your post calling me a moron for saying we were in a shitty cap situation. Thanks for proving my point. Apologies about the stove top.
The Cards allowed the Chiefs and Texans to trade ahead of them and them draft Mahomes and Watson. In retrospect, maybe they should have made that move instead.
However, as push came to shove the Cardinals got lucky anyway and were in position to draft Rosen as he fell for attitude/injury concerns. They also got lucky that 49ers filled their QB needs another way and didnt need to move on a QB in the Draft or they may not have been in position to draft Rosen.
Unfortunately, the Giants do not have a QB rich Draft class to count on this point as the Cards did. Now maybe the Giants get lucky and the wisdom is wrong on the Draft a year out.
I think it’s hard to tell with Gettleman. I didn’t really like the way he was hired. It didn’t seem like they really made a true search and everyone assumed he would get the job. However, who knows what they told him they wanted to do. If Mara insisted against a full “blow it up” scenario then what could Gettleman have really done? It just seemed to me that the thought process that we could truly compete for a title this year was insane. Last years team was awful.
The problem started in 2007 when Reese was promoted to GM. By 2012 it was obvious that changes had to be made - but they weren't. Then came the 2015 disaster when all the wrong moves (ditching TC, keeping Reese and Ross, hiring McAdoo) were made.
Last year's brain farts were nickle-dime by comparison.
The problem started in 2007 when Reese was promoted to GM. By 2012 it was obvious that changes had to be made - but they weren't. Then came the 2015 disaster when all the wrong moves (ditching TC, keeping Reese and Ross, hiring McAdoo) were made.
Last year's brain farts were nickle-dime by comparison.
Agreed 1000%...
I bet you also think it is awesome to get a hefty tax return too!
If you think having $90M is being in a good cap position, you are a moron. A very, very big moron and you seemingly don't have a fucking clue on how the cap works.
I think if you made a list of those blaming Eli (or mostly blaming him) and compared it to the list of those angry we didn't draft a QB, from back in April - you would see almost all the same people. People see what they want to see.