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Rebuilding or Win Now

Tim in JTown : 9/19/2018 8:59 pm
Looking at these first two games and the product we are fielding, it sure has the look of a rebuilding year. I understand that we have a lot of new faces and chemistry is suffering right now, and perhaps the team will begin solidifying a bit, but I am starting to question the strategy of Gettleman.

What was billed as a "win now" team based on the Barkley pick, which I loved and who seems to be doing all he can to give this team a freakin pulse, seems more like a team experiencing a throw away year in hopes of rebuilding. We need some beef, talent, and attitude on that OL. It's looking more and more likely that once again next year we will have yet another set of linemen equally struggling to find chemistry. Meanwhile, Barkley, Eli, and OBJ experience another wasted year.

Awww crap, go out there and pound Houston this week and shut me the freak up.
Tim  
joeinpa : 9/19/2018 9:03 pm : link
There is no rebuilding in the NFL, so I ve been told.

But If there were Barkley would certainly be part of that process
That rug really tied the room together  
02/03/2008 : 9/19/2018 9:07 pm : link
Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
We set ourselves back multiple years  
RUNYG : 9/19/2018 9:25 pm : link
Could have actually done a proper rebuild if the regime didnt cater to a 38 year old declining QB and pick the obvious choice (Darnold) instead of a RB.
Neither  
lax counsel : 9/19/2018 9:30 pm : link
The franchise is directionless. They arent win now and they arent in rebuild mode. The worst spot to be in the NFL.
Do you need to be told it's a rebuild? They're never going to say it.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/19/2018 9:31 pm : link
The Browns never say rebuild.


It's a damn rebuild. The team sucks and has sucked for five of the last six years clinging to a "championship window" that doesn't exist.
Every team in the NFL is win now, if they aren't coaches lose their  
SterlingArcher : 9/19/2018 9:43 pm : link
jobs. No team is going to sit around for years and say we are rebuilding, no fan would buy into that.
Here is the reality...  
sxdxca : 9/19/2018 9:56 pm : link
Now that the Giants have looked terrible so far,(this could change), Some on BBI are attempting to now spin this that Getteleman and Mara are rebuilding, and not in win now mode to make them feel better.

But here are the facts.

Getteleman went out and traded a 4th round pick for Ogletree, and took on a big contract.

Then they spent 62 million on Solder, and dished out another 95 million on Beckham.

They used the #2 pick in the draft on a generational RB, used another high 2nd rd pick on Hernandez.

Went all in on Eli Manning, passed up on Darnold who fell in there lap, and have no cap space left.

So far the whole thing has backfired on Gettleman and Mara. Make no mistake, I guarantee you Mara is freaking out right now.

He knew about Darnold, and even talked about the transition the Packers did going from Favre to Rodgers, before the draft.

If the Giants lose on Sunday, he will regret his decision, and this will go down as the biggest mistake the organization has ever made.
They peed  
TommytheElephant : 9/19/2018 10:02 pm : link
On your fucking rug
RE: Every team in the NFL is win now, if they aren't coaches lose their  
bw in dc : 9/19/2018 10:04 pm : link
In comment 14085896 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
jobs. No team is going to sit around for years and say we are rebuilding, no fan would buy into that.


The 49ers have said exactly that by giving six year contracts to Shanahan and Lynch, a coach and GM hired at the same time.
It  
AcidTest : 9/19/2018 10:04 pm : link
doesn't look like we're doing either.
RE: Neither  
Boy Cord : 9/19/2018 10:34 pm : link
In comment 14085884 lax counsel said:
Quote:
The franchise is directionless. They arent win now and they arent in rebuild mode. The worst spot to be in the NFL.


Good call.
Every article describing the current NYG position  
The_Boss : 9/19/2018 10:42 pm : link
Say this was a win now team. Many here on BBI said it was a win now team. Every move and decision this past spring by the FO screamed were in it to win now. Now that the year looks lost and the plan looks like an abject failure, the narrative cannot be it was always a rebuilding year all along.
If this team had a mobile QB, they'd be 2-0  
Fishmanjim57 : 9/19/2018 10:43 pm : link
The pocket QB that has made up all of Eli's career is useless with the make shift OL. If the QB had mobility he'd run out of trouble, rather than look like a deer in the headlights that is about to be sacked multiple times.
If they continue to have another repeat of 2017 where they win 3 games, perhaps they'll finally draft a top ranked replacement for Eli. In the meantime we are stuck watching this franchise get trapped by their own loyalty to a QB who is well past his prime years.
The way I look at it is....  
SteelGiant : 9/19/2018 11:10 pm : link
So many people here are extreme one side or the other just like America is general. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle and I am not freaking out about it.

The draft selection was a gamble either way, there was no guarantee on any player they drafter was going to turn into a stud. Either the way the line was not going to be good. I also think Barkley was the surest bet.

Yes, we could have drafted a QB but that could have turned into a disaster. Barkley is legitimate NFL running back, picking a QB would have put us in the bind of sitting the first round pick for a year or putting a rookie QB behind a terrible line. Either way you are wasting another year of OBJ but we signed to guarantee we have him after we fix our line. Maybe we should have drafted another lineman instead of Carter or Lauletta but I do not know what kind of lineman were available in those rounds.

In either situation there was a big gamble, I think the Giants took the approach to gamble that maybe they could give themselves a faster turnaround if they got some players while also gambling that if it was a disaster they will still get a QB within 2 years.

I do not think that any of the QBs were generational talents coming out like Peyton Manning. They all had quirks to their game and needed polished a little. Yes it was a promising group so I understand that some of you preferred to QB gamble but I am interested to see where we are in 2 years.

QBs drafted in top 10 in the last ten years:
Trubisky, Malhomes,Goff, Wentz,Winston,Mariota,Bortles,Luck,RG3,Tannehill,Newton,Locker,Gabbert,Bradford,Stafford,Sanchez, Ryan

QBsm drafted outside the top 10 but still in the first round:
Watson,Lynch,Manziel,Bridgewater, EJ Manuel, Weeden,Ponder, Tebow, Freeman,Flacco

Current NFL Starters outside of 1st round:
Dalton,Taylor,Prescott,Keenum,Cousins,Brady,Brees,Carr,Foles,Garoppolo,Wilson, Fitzpatrick

I don't think it impossible to find a QB that will be successful with weapons like Engram, OBJ, AND Barkley once there is a line in place. The sky is falling crowd is being a little over-reactive.

How the Browns became the Browns is they kept taking a QB to solve their problems instead of building a team first to have in front of the QB.

It is very rare to get a QB that automatically takes a crappy team and makes them a good one,it is way more likely to become successful by building the foundation and putting in a above average QB behind it.

I am ok with Eli being the stop gap QB until the then.
Im not sure the Giants have an option. Based on the 1st two games,  
Ivan15 : 9/19/2018 11:13 pm : link
They arent going to win a game unless the o-line improves dramatically. If they lose this week, they might as well rebuild.

Unless a miracle in Texas occurs, Omameh or Flowers (or both) will lose their starting jobs on Tuesday.
RE: If this team had a mobile QB, they'd be 2-0  
SteelGiant : 9/19/2018 11:15 pm : link
In comment 14085961 Fishmanjim57 said:
Quote:
The pocket QB that has made up all of Eli's career is useless with the make shift OL. If the QB had mobility he'd run out of trouble, rather than look like a deer in the headlights that is about to be sacked multiple times.


The question should be, Do you think they would win the Super Bowl that way? If there answer is no, then what is your goal?
Time to realize  
giantsFC : 9/20/2018 12:08 am : link
Maybe Eli Manning is the problem. Can not keep blaming the line. Different lineman, different lineman gurus, yet same horrible passing game.

Love Manning, but he is the one constant. 😬
_________  
I am Ninja : 9/20/2018 12:35 am : link
Whether we are trying to win now, win next year or win 3 years from now, we are in big, big trouble. This has been botched, and badly.
the Solder signing was the real tell  
bluepepper : 9/20/2018 12:58 am : link
62 million for a 30 Y/O good but not great LT. Not a rebuilding move.

We were 3-13 last year  
montanagiant : 9/20/2018 1:15 am : link
And we have 33 new players on this team.

OF COURSE, we are rebuilding
Review  
Hilary : 9/20/2018 7:21 am : link
Gettleman gets a D for free agency. The money spent on Stewart,Ogletree, Martin could have been used to re build the line and the guard he brought in from Jacksonville is a bust.

The draft was not a disaster.The four players we have seen are good. Giants,unfortunately, will be in a position to draft a QB this year. They will likely have a top 5 pick.
A 3-13 team last year  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/20/2018 7:30 am : link
talking about "win now" like we're going to the SB or something
Both.  
Britt in VA : 9/20/2018 7:31 am : link
.
RE: Both.  
Sean : 9/20/2018 7:49 am : link
In comment 14086091 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


I think it is hard for people because the last time we bottomed out in 2004, QB was drafted to pair up with the new coach. 2004 & 2005 both sides of the line were also built up to have a very productive run of football from 2005-2012. It feels different now.
Jesus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/20/2018 8:07 am : link
I think certain things are basically universally accepted. I guess I'm wrong:

Quote:
If this team had a mobile QB, they'd be 2-0
Fishmanjim57 : 9/19/2018 10:43 pm : link : reply
The pocket QB that has made up all of Eli's career is useless with the make shift OL. If the QB had mobility he'd run out of trouble, rather than look like a deer in the headlights that is about to be sacked multiple times.
If they continue to have another repeat of 2017 where they win 3 games, perhaps they'll finally draft a top ranked replacement for Eli. In the meantime we are stuck watching this franchise get trapped by their own loyalty to a QB who is well past his prime years.


We'd be 2-0 with a mobile QB?? Sell a fucking bridge to Russell Wilson if you think that.
No the one constant is  
Doomster : 9/20/2018 8:08 am : link
Time to realize
giantsFC : 12:08 am : link : reply
Maybe Eli Manning is the problem. Can not keep blaming the line. Different lineman, different lineman gurus, yet same horrible passing game.
Love Manning, but he is the one constant. 😬


the NY Football Giants have not put an OL in front of Eli for 7 seasons.........

After winning the SB in 2011, they know they need to fix the OL....so what do they do? Why they draft a RB.....

The next 3 years they use high picks on the OL, all failures....

In '16 & '17, they ignore the OL again....

Not one free agent OLman signed in those years has solved anything...

So what do we do? We draft a RB and put him behind a shit OL, and HOPE, HOPE that they can fix in two years what they couldn't do in 7.....yes, there is new leadership making the decisions and we have no idea if we are going in the right direction or have gone from the frying pan into the fire...

Gettleman did not pass on one QB, he passed on 5....by the time we get an OL, Barkley could be destroyed like Hampton was...



Hampton..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/20/2018 8:10 am : link
was destroyed by a poor OL?

What the fuck is going on around here?
There is nothing physically wrong with Eli.  
Big Blue '56 : 9/20/2018 8:18 am : link
He will continue to dump off if our OL never reaches an average level. Every QB in the league would do the same or scramble out of there with similar protection., imo..Were not absolving Eli completely and we NEVER have, but please stop with that narrative already
Fatman,  
Doomster : 9/20/2018 8:39 am : link
what I was trying to say was, Hampton was overused and abused....

Barkley, by virtue of no OL, is going to be getting more hits on a constant basis...by the time we get an OL in front of him, he could have a lot of mileage on him in a very short time...

What do your eyes tell you  
JonC : 9/20/2018 10:08 am : link
Looks like a rebuilding team, no matter the moves or intent was last offseason. The OL needs talent, the DL needs talent, and the secondary will need talent if they decide to move on from Apple, Collins, etc.

If the answer is "rebuilding",  
Go Terps : 9/20/2018 11:19 am : link
then it's going to be pretty aggravating when the finally rebuilt team is hamstrung by the search for a new QB, GM, and possibly head coach.

Instead of the two options provided in the OP, I'll go with "lost".
Did anyone here believe we would go from a 3 win team to a contender ?  
plato : 9/20/2018 10:19 pm : link
No but the expectation were too high throughout camp and preseason. Offenses take some time, for lines and skill players to meld. Our line remains a problem with injury a senseless trade of a center and poor trades for a guard.

So the question is where we will be in 3 years not this year. We need to win more games each year, perhaps 5-6 this year and bring along our rookie QB so that in year 3 or 4 we may have a contender and hope Barkley is able to continue to year 5-6.

Its the only thing that makes sense given our O line situation. We may have to sit Eli with dignity somewhere along the way, sooner rather than later.

What scares me is this reliving of the past horror years of 60-70s looking for quick for quick fix. Wellington never found it and we were in team hell forever until we got a GM forced on us by league.
Thought there was no such thing as rebuilding?  
micky : 9/20/2018 10:34 pm : link
.
There..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/20/2018 10:36 pm : link
really isn't.

But I'm sure you're unconvinced. Doesn't surprise me in the least.
When did rebuilding...  
bw in dc : 9/20/2018 10:48 pm : link
become so taboo? Is there now a euphemism I don't know about?

It isn't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/20/2018 10:53 pm : link
taboo. It just really doesn't happen in the manner most people look at it as.

It is a build on the fly approach.

People can't even decide on what means a rebuild anyway

Look at it this way, the Giants could've done everything the same as they did, but draft a QB instead of Barkley. And people would say that is a rebuild. Not picking a QB means they are in "win now" mode.

And you literally have several posters who think this win now vs. rebuilding is a critical discussion point.
RE: There..  
micky : 9/20/2018 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14087374 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
really isn't.

But I'm sure you're unconvinced. Doesn't surprise me in the least.


👍👍
Give me some rope here...  
bw in dc : 9/20/2018 11:04 pm : link
but I think rebuilding is like Justice Potter Stewart described porn - "...I know it when I see it."

To me, the 49ers are rebuilding. They have acknowledged that they have a long term plan and are going to be patient. That's why they gave Lynch and Shanahan 6 year, overlapping contracts. They see there program as something that is going to grow incrementally as they get healthier with cap space, have more FA options, and draft more talent.
And in..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/20/2018 11:20 pm : link
a supposed rebuild, the Niners paid quite a bit for a RB (who is now injured) and one of their top WR's is Pierre Garcon.

And I'm pretty sure if we did such "half-measures", it would be said we were wasting a portion of Jimmy G's prime.

If they were rebuilding, why are they shelling out top $$ for McKinnon?
RE: And in..  
bw in dc : 9/20/2018 11:29 pm : link
In comment 14087480 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a supposed rebuild, the Niners paid quite a bit for a RB (who is now injured) and one of their top WR's is Pierre Garcon.

And I'm pretty sure if we did such "half-measures", it would be said we were wasting a portion of Jimmy G's prime.

If they were rebuilding, why are they shelling out top $$ for McKinnon?


Well, you are required to spend a minimum amount of cap dollars every year. And they have so many holes that you really can only add in FA what the market supplies.

Can't hold McKinnon's injury against him; and he was a good, versatile player in Minnesota. I see nothing wrong with adding that type of player...

I think the JimG invest was wise, too Has shown flashes of success and has all the modern game attributes you want in a QB - good arm, mobile, and can improvise.

Now the 9ers just need to keeping adding more parts. Again, it's an incremental approach.
See that goes down as an INT  
dep026 : 9/20/2018 11:34 pm : link
But what a pathetic effort by Anderson
RE: Review  
BigBlueGuy : 9/20/2018 11:57 pm : link
In comment 14086085 Hilary said:
Quote:
Gettleman gets a D for free agency. The money spent on Stewart,Ogletree, Martin could have been used to re build the line and the guard he brought in from Jacksonville is a bust.

The draft was not a disaster.The four players we have seen are good. Giants,unfortunately, will be in a position to draft a QB this year. They will likely have a top 5 pick.
I wanted the Giants to draft a QB too bad that Old man Gettleman still thinks Eli is a good QB. He drafted Lauletta and GMs dont want to ever admit they were wrong. He will stubbornly stick to this failed plan. I really wanted 2 new tackles the money wasted on Stewart and Omameh hurt us. Hopefully we can sign Ali Marpet as a G/C and sign JuJuan James to play RT.
RE: If this team had a mobile QB, they'd be 2-0  
giantstock : 9/21/2018 4:32 am : link
In comment 14085961 Fishmanjim57 said:
Quote:
The pocket QB that has made up all of Eli's career is useless with the make shift OL. If the QB had mobility he'd run out of trouble, rather than look like a deer in the headlights that is about to be sacked multiple times.
If they continue to have another repeat of 2017 where they win 3 games, perhaps they'll finally draft a top ranked replacement for Eli. In the meantime we are stuck watching this franchise get trapped by their own loyalty to a QB who is well past his prime years.


What a load of crap you just posted. Mannning is part of the problem but laughabale with the Oline and no pass rush you think 2-0. Beyond ridiculous.
Is there even a need to rebuild in NFL  
giantsFC : 9/23/2018 9:12 am : link
You get 7 draft picks a year (ok 4 w Dave Gettleman)
Rosters are completely different by year-end anyway w injuries

The only position that really can classify a rebuild is QB as they rarely get hurt, rarely get replaced in a game, and often tske a year to RT up to NFL speed.

Giants havent hit the rebuild a QB button yet. They are just doing the norm and trying to compete
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