Agree. They cut Shane Smith. Essentially holding weekly tryouts for kick returner. Putting Ray Ray Armstrong on the field a lot more. The talent is pretty thin, but at least they’re not afraid to make harsh decisions
My point is that they just didn’t suddenly wake up and realize that Flowers sucked.
I’m really not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that they should keep Flowers starting all season because they already knew he sucked and he started week 1?
They were always going to give him the first opportunity. Between him being a 1st round pick and not having anything remotely average to replace him with, a new staff of course is going to see if there’s some, anything, they can bring out in the guy. They obviously have their answer
Our best bet for this season is if the oline can go from awful to average and hopefully we can do that with better communication. Does this move do it? I am not sure but I think we clearly reached the the limits of flowers. maybe the light goes on for Wheeler, we will see. We just need to communicate and give a little more time for Eli at this point.
I am also hoping that Hernandez will benefit from being sandwiched between two veterans--not that Halapio wasn't doing ok. I think Greco might help Hernandez.
I like that we are at least trying something and not just hoping.
My impression of DG's style and my take on things PS has said and done.
PS said nice things about EF after Week 1. He never showed any interest in giving Wheeler first team reps.
When Francesa asked PS if he was considering personnel change, he dismissed it.
This decision was made by the same guy who insists on keeping Stewart on the roster, who PS pretty much refuses to play.
I think we learned that Shurmer is not going to call players out publicly but willing to address and make changes. He is a players coach in that regard. Do run your team through the press.
Not a surprising move. Clearly smells of a bit of panic Â
but you have to assume Shurmur/coaches plans for this year have are failing. Therefore they have to jockey around with moves to see if they can see some light can be seen at the end of the tunnel.
I am okay with the move with the sheer fact that Flowers is just simply awful and never going to get better.
Can’t believe people are arguing this move on this thread. Flowers has brought this franchise down for years. There nothing to lose here. I wouldn’t be one bit upset if we cut Flowers this morning and put someone from the practice squad on the active roster.
Lol Wheeler's first start of the season and real meaningful time next to Omameh is going up against Watt?
This is spectacularly bad. Manning is going to get obliterated. Chad Wheeler spent more time on his ass at RT than his feet in the pre-season.
I'm starting to think Shurmur and Gettleman brought Manning back because they hate him.
Haha! You’re right, how will they ever compete now that the legendary Flowers has been benched? We are in trouble now!
Benching Flowers is inevitable because he's dreadful. Replacing him with a dude who is so dreadful he couldn't take his spot in pre-season? And thrown in against one of the best pass rushers in the NFL day one? LOL.
Can’t believe people are arguing this move on this thread. Flowers has brought this franchise down for years. There nothing to lose here. I wouldn’t be one bit upset if we cut Flowers this morning and put someone from the practice squad on the active roster.
I agree. This could be an addition by subtraction result. the online is about 5 guys coming together and working as a group. Although Flowers sounded like he was working with Solder I always got the feeling like he was not really part of the online camaraderie. Our great oline of 2007 had a camaraderie on and off the field, at least it seemed that way.
Can’t believe people are arguing this move on this thread. Flowers has brought this franchise down for years. There nothing to lose here. I wouldn’t be one bit upset if we cut Flowers this morning and put someone from the practice squad on the active roster.
Finally, something cogent on this thread. I tried to be patient with Flowers, I can no longer be. The inability to ‘get it’ is confounding to this diehard
It's crazy - Flowers has not improved 1 iota since he got here. Says it all. 4 years.
The light isn't suddenly going to go on.
I keep reading Wheeler was worse. That is absolute BS. Flowers is as bad as it gets. This will be an improvement, even if it's just attitude and mental toughness. I think anyone could see Flowers lost his confidence years ago and everyone in the league knows it, and really gets after him on the field. You see people mentally breaking him.
Have to try something!!! How many years do we watch Flowers suck? JR was an awful GM and was in my opinion an arrogant manipulator of Mara. I would guess his famous head of scouting was equally bad -they sentenced us to 10 years of stepped on dog crap. You don’t use early picks on projects - like Flowers . I’m not a fan of missing a QB in first round of 2018 draft but I believe Mara overcompensated for ending Eli’s streak and the backlash. We are still 2-3 years away from potentially being a competitive playoff team. No depth at DB - OL and need a QB - let Eli retire and go to the ring of fame where he belongs. Lose today and the stadium will be empty very early this year. Shame on Mara - karma needs to follow JR
but this is now the 3rd set of coaches that keep trotting this clown out there to play. I realize they have few, if any, options at Tackle, but its been YEARS now folks and strategy for this team basically has been pinned to "hope".
Can’t believe people are arguing this move on this thread. Flowers has brought this franchise down for years. There nothing to lose here. I wouldn’t be one bit upset if we cut Flowers this morning and put someone from the practice squad on the active roster.
Me either. The Giants starting RT for 2019 is either in college or playing for another team right now.
It’s gotten to the point that whatever personnel move the Giants make fans will argue against it, just because 1) the Giants have not been good and 2) any decision they make is therefore bad.
RE: Funny thing is Flowers was probably the best OL Â
Benching Flowers is inevitable because he's dreadful. Replacing him with a dude who is so dreadful he couldn't take his spot in pre-season? And thrown in against one of the best pass rushers in the NFL day one? LOL.
Not disagreeing. But this tells you a bit about where the coaching staff is with this Oline/Offense. They are now willing to almost try anything, even if it goes against everything they planned for over the past 7 months...
A unit performance like last week and in Flowers case his whole bust of a Giant career calls for action. Let's the other line man know there will be accountability too.
Hope this kid plays well.
Good move, we have to try different things because what we Â
He was an undrafted free agent last year... now he is being thrown into the fire against arguably the best defensive lineman in the league. Wheeler will be in way over his head... I will be rooting hard for him but difficult to see him being successful today.
Getting the nauseous feeling that Shurmur may be in over his head as well with this move. Offensive lines take time to gel and a panic move like this will only breed mistrust... Not sure I get the point of believing in Flowers for the last four months and suddenly realizing now that it has been a mistake. Seems like it is more of a "shame on Shurmur" than a "shame on Flowers" move... which is locker room poison.
but is there any chance that DG is negotiating a trade of Flowers? I know Flowers isn't worth anything. But another team might be inclined to take on his salary and give him a look over the remaining games. If he remains on another team's active 53, then we get cap relief. If he actually plays, then we get a 7th round. If he is signed to an extension, then we get 5th or 6th pick.
Any chance? Or should I move straight on to the glue?
He was an undrafted free agent last year... now he is being thrown into the fire against arguably the best defensive lineman in the league. Wheeler will be in way over his head... I will be rooting hard for him but difficult to see him being successful today.
Getting the nauseous feeling that Shurmur may be in over his head as well with this move. Offensive lines take time to gel and a panic move like this will only breed mistrust... Not sure I get the point of believing in Flowers for the last four months and suddenly realizing now that it has been a mistake. Seems like it is more of a "shame on Shurmur" than a "shame on Flowers" move... which is locker room poison.
Oh my God.
RE: Here is some Pie-in-the-Sky conspiracy theory, Â
but is there any chance that DG is negotiating a trade of Flowers? I know Flowers isn't worth anything. But another team might be inclined to take on his salary and give him a look over the remaining games. If he remains on another team's active 53, then we get cap relief. If he actually plays, then we get a 7th round. If he is signed to an extension, then we get 5th or 6th pick.
Any chance? Or should I move straight on to the glue?
Who is the 3rd tackle?
RE: RE: RE: Funny thing is Flowers was probably the best OL Â
I was going to mention this. Wasn’t Flowers graded best last week on the line? Regardless, I hope it works out.
I think this was according to PFF, which is kind of bull. Obviously the coaches have analyzed all the film and identified where the issues start.
Unless it was assignment based (could very be), the all 22 stuff showed Flowers at least getting a hand on his guy most of the time last week, which isn't actually something you could say about most of the rest of the line.
RE: RE: Here is some Pie-in-the-Sky conspiracy theory, Â
but is there any chance that DG is negotiating a trade of Flowers? I know Flowers isn't worth anything. But another team might be inclined to take on his salary and give him a look over the remaining games. If he remains on another team's active 53, then we get cap relief. If he actually plays, then we get a 7th round. If he is signed to an extension, then we get 5th or 6th pick.
Any chance? Or should I move straight on to the glue?
all you hear is how the giants need to bench flowers, they bench flowers and you get the same people saying the giants do not know what they are doing...
all you hear is how the giants need to bench flowers, they bench flowers and you get the same people saying the giants do not know what they are doing...
but the big issue isn't physical, its communication. My first thought on this news was that might move Flowers inside but I suppose we would hear that.
Who’s to say something didn’t happen at practice this week Â
Flowers isn’t the most mature guy. I can see him mouthing off, or more likely, not putting the work in to get better.
Correct.
The comments about the Giants just waking up and realizing Flowers sucks are hilarious. There’s a lot more to this whole thing than just what happens on Sunday’s.
RE: Who’s to say something didn’t happen at practice this week Â
Flowers isn’t the most mature guy. I can see him mouthing off, or more likely, not putting the work in to get better.
Negative. According to Rappaport, Wheeler has been practicing w the 1’s all week.
This looks like DG’s clean slate for Flowers is no longer clean. They gave him a shot at RT and he’s been terrible. Looks like the Flowers era is over.
I thought immediately it may not have been an entirely football decision too, as soon as I read it. We will probably never really know unless EF airs out the decision in the media, which a i doubt will happen. Just a strange set of circumstances...but the positive maybe that Wheeler has really improved since camp and the coaches loved what they saw these past few weeks. I thought he was actually very good at LT last year in his start...
If Ommameh (sp?) continues to struggle, I wonder if Flowers would get a look at G. I vaguely remember discussion that he projected inside as well.
barring a new injury at tackle, its over for him as a NYG...
I actually think that they are going to give Flowers a chance at guard. It’s worked with other offensive lineman. The change also shows the team that no one is on scholarship anymore. The players need to play for their jobs.
RE: RE: Who’s to say something didn’t happen at practice this week Â
Flowers isn’t the most mature guy. I can see him mouthing off, or more likely, not putting the work in to get better.
Negative. According to Rappaport, Wheeler has been practicing w the 1’s all week.
This looks like DG’s clean slate for Flowers is no longer clean. They gave him a shot at RT and he’s been terrible. Looks like the Flowers era is over.
I’m sure this is true, but I find it hard to believe that none of the reporters mentioned anything about this throughout the week?
Unless you’re saying Rappaport did mention it earlier in the week. But I’m taking your post to mean he’s said it this morning
THis may not be an improvement in talent but may be in communication. Â
It’s a position he’s never played and he’s not going to start learning it mid-season. Quite frankly, I think he’s got a learning disability. He never seems to improve his technique.
An experiment at Guard would be just another desperate move Â
Imo, Flowers should stay on the bench for rest of the season barring injury.
Bad pick, bad situation that he had to play LT so quickly, bad decision to not find real competition each offseason, bad idea to keep hoping he would improve.
and he looked dreadful. 2nd teamers were routinely crossing his face and taking direct routes to the passer.
Wheeler looked much better during his rookie preseason snaps on the left side. Moreover, I recall reading a couple weeks ago a coach, I do not recall who, it might have been an anonymous quote, saying that Wheeler was much better on the left side.
I'm hopeful, but not expecting too much out of Wheeler. I'll be looking for a tight end or running back lined up on his side.
Ugh.
RE: RE: RE: Who’s to say something didn’t happen at practice this week Â
Flowers isn’t the most mature guy. I can see him mouthing off, or more likely, not putting the work in to get better.
Negative. According to Rappaport, Wheeler has been practicing w the 1’s all week.
This looks like DG’s clean slate for Flowers is no longer clean. They gave him a shot at RT and he’s been terrible. Looks like the Flowers era is over.
I’m sure this is true, but I find it hard to believe that none of the reporters mentioned anything about this throughout the week?
Unless you’re saying Rappaport did mention it earlier in the week. But I’m taking your post to mean he’s said it this morning
My understanding is that the Giants kept it a secret so Houston wouldn’t be able to prepare.
Finally, this is recognition by Shurmur that Flowers is not improving enough to continue to give him playing time, and he won’t be here next year anyway.
And flowers played better than the rest of the OL against Dallas.
So careful what you wish for here....
Yea, I don't understand why Flowers was singled-out after last week's game. Unless it's just a matter of they're not being comfortable with anyone on the roster being able to move in for Omameh. Solder has been terrible too, but with how much money they committed to him he's likely untouchable.
And flowers played better than the rest of the OL against Dallas.
So careful what you wish for here....
Yea, I don't understand why Flowers was singled-out after last week's game. Unless it's just a matter of they're not being comfortable with anyone on the roster being able to move in for Omameh. Solder has been terrible too, but with how much money they committed to him he's likely untouchable.
benching Reese's first round draft pick in favor or a UDFA signed by Reese who hadn't found a decent UDFA since Victor Cruz.
Got to be done because Flowers has run out of excuses.
Oh and please, no more snickering at the Browns. We are the Browns with a more stable qb situation and ODB. Familiar situation for Shurmer who has to be wondering why he left Minneapolis.
RE: Who’s to say something didn’t happen at practice this week Â
I doubt it. Others said Willie actually played well. Once I saw some analysis saying from PFF that the giants OLINE was about 23 -- at that point for this point in time we have to recognize the ones who analyze are clueless. Thus I can't believe Flowers was the best if any supposed "expert" claimed so.
benching Reese's first round draft pick in favor or a UDFA signed by Reese who hadn't found a decent UDFA since Victor Cruz.
Got to be done because Flowers has run out of excuses.
Oh and please, no more snickering at the Browns. We are the Browns with a more stable qb situation and ODB. Familiar situation for Shurmer who has to be wondering why he left Minneapolis.
I say this as someone who still thinks Eli might have something left in the tank, but the Browns right now have a more stable QB situation than we do.
He was an undrafted free agent last year... now he is being thrown into the fire against arguably the best defensive lineman in the league. Wheeler will be in way over his head... I will be rooting hard for him but difficult to see him being successful today.
You feel sorry for him? He's in his second year in the NFL. He's getting a chance to start. This is part of the job - you know actually playing. No one is expecting him to shut down anybody, just do a halfway decent job and don't let his man single handedly beat us. If he can't do that then maybe he doesn't belong in the league.
Geoff Schwartz
Geoff Schwartz
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He doesn’t care.
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Jonathan Morales
@JonMorales1980
Replying to @geoffschwartz
I get that, just hate to see all that potential be a waste. You were in that locker room does the kid just not work on it, or is it just reverting to bad habit during play?
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I think Ereck Flowers cares about the game. I don’t think he cares much about getting better. I’m not knocking his work ethic. He worked hard in the weight room and at practice. But taking the time to work details and want to get better, I didn’t see it.
of announcing this before the game? It's not like an injury that they are required to disclose. Why not just run the offense out there with Wheeler at RT? Surely that would be some advantage.
Wheeler will do better then you think because JJ Watt isn't the same guy he was a few years ago. Too many injuries have taken their toll on him. He doesn't even have a sack yet. Flowers got benched for a reason. Lets see what happens.
There was a reason why he was not drafted (injuries, character).
Jackie Slater swears that this kid can be good. Yeah, USC homer-vision, definitely a possibility. But, his opinion was very strong and he could have been supportive without going all in.
The move makes sense - you get better by playing, that is, if you are going to get better. Flowers has had more than his share of opportunities to get better.
I expect the rest of the OLine to settle down.
Couple of non-expert observations about Flowers. For a guy as strong as he is - I would expect a pretty good punch. I watched a few plays in which he didn't deliver a powerful jolt. Rather. his arms seemed to slowly roll out, unfurling if you will. In addition to his lack of bend - he seemed uncoordinated, never got hands/feet thing working smoothly.
Sometimes a player's deficiencies require unorthodox compensatory adjustments. Wonder if a lot of heavy bag work might have helped him? And, along those lines adjusting the punch so it may have favored one hand or the other.
Finally, given the fact that he does not seem to move well backwards, laterally, and in reaction to others - I will always wonder if he was miscast. Could he have been any worse as a DT or 3-4 DE? Doubtful.
don't think this will work. Wheeler couldn't even beat out Flowers during training camp and the preseason, but now all of a sudden he's better after two weeks? But the Giants have to try something. Flowers is awful. Wheeler is not a RT, but at least he has better feet than Flowers.
We aren't trading Flowers, and he isn't a guard.
Reese's inability to find OL in the draft or via FA damaged Eli's career, but I'm beginning to think DG has just continued that problem by overpaying for Solder and Omameh. Maybe he should have signed Fleming or Hubbard.
that, as bad as the previous regime was, the new regime is significantly worse. Look, we all saw Monday night. The problem was not guys on the OL unable to make their blocks. It was that on most plays there was some defender no one even tried to block. That is some combination of communication problems and not getting protections called right. I.e probably a coaching problem; plus Halapio demonstrated in preseason that he didn't know how to call protections, yet we still handed him the starting job and traded Jones. This was supposedly to free up cap room, but we still have the cap room, so we apparently didn't really need it.
And we still have Kaelin Clay on the team for some reason.
The defense seem porous and the special teams aren't special. And Solder doesn't look like he is worth anything like what we're paying for him.
this is gonna be a long season this line has yet to have
enough game time reps to have any kind of continuity .
This reeks of desperation . I mean is Flowers just
shitting the bed in practice as well .
Wheeler Watt match-up talk about a 2nd baptism ..
It just shows really of JR and company's failures in the draft I mean basically none of the later round players
panned out either . While were forced to use other teams
late round picks .
Gonna have to grin and bear it and hope Eli doesn't get killed or get himself killed
That big hit he took last week was dangerous ..
There isn't enough time this year to make that transition and he's gone from the team at the end of the year no matter what. Like Richberg he's done here and no matter his potential he can't be resigned under any circumstances.
why the Giants don't try to find another option in free agency?? At this point anyone in FA would probably be an upgrade. They can also try to trade for one. It's a huge need right now..
saying that we needed to cut Flowers at half time. He is being replaced by an undrafted free agent. We will see whether the Giants have options to replace him as a starter... forget about cutting him.
Ol guys blew assignments - guys not used to working together, a stuggling OL playing a new position, a rookie, and adefense that moves a lot.
Solder said nobody on the line picked up any blitz last week. Total breakdown by the entire line. He had no problem speaking for the rest of his line mates
Link - ( New Window )
You're kidding right?
Lol. Good one.
Quote:
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You're kidding right?
My point is that they just didn’t suddenly wake up and realize that Flowers sucked.
The gift that keeps on giving. I wanted him gone after 2013. Still can’t believe he hasn’t been hired.sarcasm off
Just think. Had he taken Gurley or Gordon, the Giants would have taken a QB or traded down in this year’s draft.
Agree. They cut Shane Smith. Essentially holding weekly tryouts for kick returner. Putting Ray Ray Armstrong on the field a lot more. The talent is pretty thin, but at least they’re not afraid to make harsh decisions
That being said worth a shot.
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In comment 14089363 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.
You're kidding right?
My point is that they just didn’t suddenly wake up and realize that Flowers sucked.
I hear what you’re saying. They’ve probably known Flowers has sucked it’s just maybe now they think Wheeler has progressed? We can only hope.
it COULD be he felt he had to help flowers to much and he was getting beat but either way he has tonplay a lot better
Quote:
In comment 14089363 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.
You're kidding right?
My point is that they just didn’t suddenly wake up and realize that Flowers sucked.
I’m really not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that they should keep Flowers starting all season because they already knew he sucked and he started week 1?
They were always going to give him the first opportunity. Between him being a 1st round pick and not having anything remotely average to replace him with, a new staff of course is going to see if there’s some, anything, they can bring out in the guy. They obviously have their answer
Because they have to do something if they have any hope of saving the season. Now is the time.
they could not release flowers so they gave him first shot...he failed.
Shurmur decided to make a change, maybe they see wheeler getting better
based on what?
First of all, who gives a shit who’s decision it is? Secondly, how the hell would you have any clue about who’s decision it is?
I swear, this place sucks.
Its Safe to say we're going to be royally fucked for quite some time .
If you don’t get it in the nfl from year 3 to year 4, you are finished in the nfl
Its Safe to say we're going to be royally fucked for quite some time .
Flowers is probably crying in his oatmeal right now.
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not Shurmur.
based on what?
My impression of DG's style and my take on things PS has said and done.
PS said nice things about EF after Week 1. He never showed any interest in giving Wheeler first team reps.
When Francesa asked PS if he was considering personnel change, he dismissed it.
This decision was made by the same guy who insists on keeping Stewart on the roster, who PS pretty much refuses to play.
I am also hoping that Hernandez will benefit from being sandwiched between two veterans--not that Halapio wasn't doing ok. I think Greco might help Hernandez.
I like that we are at least trying something and not just hoping.
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In comment 14089403 shyster said:
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not Shurmur.
based on what?
My impression of DG's style and my take on things PS has said and done.
PS said nice things about EF after Week 1. He never showed any interest in giving Wheeler first team reps.
When Francesa asked PS if he was considering personnel change, he dismissed it.
This decision was made by the same guy who insists on keeping Stewart on the roster, who PS pretty much refuses to play.
I think we learned that Shurmer is not going to call players out publicly but willing to address and make changes. He is a players coach in that regard. Do run your team through the press.
I am okay with the move with the sheer fact that Flowers is just simply awful and never going to get better.
Repeat after me...NEVER.
Wheeler may suck too but MAYBE he can get better.
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In comment 14089403 shyster said:
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not Shurmur.
based on what?
My impression of DG's style and my take on things PS has said and done.
PS said nice things about EF after Week 1. He never showed any interest in giving Wheeler first team reps.
When Francesa asked PS if he was considering personnel change, he dismissed it.
This decision was made by the same guy who insists on keeping Stewart on the roster, who PS pretty much refuses to play.
umm did you think shurmur would really come out and say hey guys i am benching flowers?
no one knew it was kept a secret..
so your definitive statement was based on nothing..
Nevertheless, I'm hoping for a good showing not just from Wheels but the entire unit. Go Big Blue!
This is spectacularly bad. Manning is going to get obliterated. Chad Wheeler spent more time on his ass at RT than his feet in the pre-season.
I'm starting to think Shurmur and Gettleman brought Manning back because they hate him.
Flowers is probably crying in his oatmeal right now.
I doubt it. He’s probably thrilled he doesn’t have to actually work for his paycheck.
Its Safe to say we're going to be royally fucked for quite some time .
cap strapped? there are ways to maneuver the cap and the best teams know how to do it..
giants have one of the best cap guys in the business
This is spectacularly bad. Manning is going to get obliterated. Chad Wheeler spent more time on his ass at RT than his feet in the pre-season.
I'm starting to think Shurmur and Gettleman brought Manning back because they hate him.
Haha! You’re right, how will they ever compete now that the legendary Flowers has been benched? We are in trouble now!
it'll be like gum on your shoe...
No, this is all Mara. Possibly at the direction of Trump. This may go all the way to the top rungs of the illuminati.
Posting is much more fun when you aren't constrained by logic or reality!
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In comment 14089404 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 14089403 shyster said:
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not Shurmur.
based on what?
My impression of DG's style and my take on things PS has said and done.
PS said nice things about EF after Week 1. He never showed any interest in giving Wheeler first team reps.
When Francesa asked PS if he was considering personnel change, he dismissed it.
This decision was made by the same guy who insists on keeping Stewart on the roster, who PS pretty much refuses to play.
umm did you think shurmur would really come out and say hey guys i am benching flowers?
no one knew it was kept a secret..
so your definitive statement was based on nothing..
I think it's tedious to preface with an IMO.
The nuance of Shurmur's answer to MF was significant. "We're going with the guys we have."
DG has more ego and is more likely to react to being embarrassed. Don't see that in PS.
Also, the notion that Gettleman chooses who is starting for Shurmur is so far off base that I would call it moronic.
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Lol Wheeler's first start of the season and real meaningful time next to Omameh is going up against Watt?
This is spectacularly bad. Manning is going to get obliterated. Chad Wheeler spent more time on his ass at RT than his feet in the pre-season.
I'm starting to think Shurmur and Gettleman brought Manning back because they hate him.
Haha! You’re right, how will they ever compete now that the legendary Flowers has been benched? We are in trouble now!
Benching Flowers is inevitable because he's dreadful. Replacing him with a dude who is so dreadful he couldn't take his spot in pre-season? And thrown in against one of the best pass rushers in the NFL day one? LOL.
I agree. This could be an addition by subtraction result. the online is about 5 guys coming together and working as a group. Although Flowers sounded like he was working with Solder I always got the feeling like he was not really part of the online camaraderie. Our great oline of 2007 had a camaraderie on and off the field, at least it seemed that way.
Finally, something cogent on this thread. I tried to be patient with Flowers, I can no longer be. The inability to ‘get it’ is confounding to this diehard
The light isn't suddenly going to go on.
I keep reading Wheeler was worse. That is absolute BS. Flowers is as bad as it gets. This will be an improvement, even if it's just attitude and mental toughness. I think anyone could see Flowers lost his confidence years ago and everyone in the league knows it, and really gets after him on the field. You see people mentally breaking him.
the excuses are gone...
barring a new injury at tackle, its over for him as a NYG...
Me either. The Giants starting RT for 2019 is either in college or playing for another team right now.
It’s gotten to the point that whatever personnel move the Giants make fans will argue against it, just because 1) the Giants have not been good and 2) any decision they make is therefore bad.
I was going to mention this. Wasn’t Flowers graded best last week on the line? Regardless, I hope it works out.
Benching Flowers is inevitable because he's dreadful. Replacing him with a dude who is so dreadful he couldn't take his spot in pre-season? And thrown in against one of the best pass rushers in the NFL day one? LOL.
Not disagreeing. But this tells you a bit about where the coaching staff is with this Oline/Offense. They are now willing to almost try anything, even if it goes against everything they planned for over the past 7 months...
I get the long term vision, and I get the roster needs a near complete overhaul. I just don't want Manning to get hurt frankly.
The talent isn't there on the line, so I assume the hope was build continuity. Now 3 weeks in 2/5 of the line are new.
Chad Wheeler against JJ Watt is actually slightly more scary than versus Flowers.
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nothing to lose here. Maybe omaheh will play better without flowers
it COULD be he felt he had to help flowers to much and he was getting beat but either way he has tonplay a lot better
I think this is correct. FB, TE's, etc. After a while its not worth it because it limits what you can do offensively.
That's like pointing out the piece of shit in the toilet with the most corn in it.
Nevertheless, I'm hoping for a good showing not just from Wheels but the entire unit. Go Big Blue!
That thought crossed my mind as well! 'Ohmygod' hasn't played any better than Flowers. Should have kept Fluker for the money
Hope this kid plays well.
Chad Wheeler vs. JJ Watt....oh boy
Agreed
Imagine Flowers blocking Whitney Mercilus? No chance!
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against Dallas. lol
I was going to mention this. Wasn’t Flowers graded best last week on the line? Regardless, I hope it works out.
I think this was according to PFF, which is kind of bull. Obviously the coaches have analyzed all the film and identified where the issues start.
Getting the nauseous feeling that Shurmur may be in over his head as well with this move. Offensive lines take time to gel and a panic move like this will only breed mistrust... Not sure I get the point of believing in Flowers for the last four months and suddenly realizing now that it has been a mistake. Seems like it is more of a "shame on Shurmur" than a "shame on Flowers" move... which is locker room poison.
MacAdoo was right about Flowers, too stiff in hips to play tackle. Wheeler is more athletic It s a move that needed to be made
Any chance? Or should I move straight on to the glue?
Getting the nauseous feeling that Shurmur may be in over his head as well with this move. Offensive lines take time to gel and a panic move like this will only breed mistrust... Not sure I get the point of believing in Flowers for the last four months and suddenly realizing now that it has been a mistake. Seems like it is more of a "shame on Shurmur" than a "shame on Flowers" move... which is locker room poison.
Oh my God.
Any chance? Or should I move straight on to the glue?
Who is the 3rd tackle?
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In comment 14089458 Rflairr said:
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against Dallas. lol
I was going to mention this. Wasn’t Flowers graded best last week on the line? Regardless, I hope it works out.
I think this was according to PFF, which is kind of bull. Obviously the coaches have analyzed all the film and identified where the issues start.
Unless it was assignment based (could very be), the all 22 stuff showed Flowers at least getting a hand on his guy most of the time last week, which isn't actually something you could say about most of the rest of the line.
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but is there any chance that DG is negotiating a trade of Flowers? I know Flowers isn't worth anything. But another team might be inclined to take on his salary and give him a look over the remaining games. If he remains on another team's active 53, then we get cap relief. If he actually plays, then we get a 7th round. If he is signed to an extension, then we get 5th or 6th pick.
Any chance? Or should I move straight on to the glue?
Who is the 3rd tackle?
It can't be any worse.
Seriously, is Watt and Clowney anything more than a name this year?
Or an OT for that matter.
And..regardless of that we don't have the types; more zone blocking.
Welcome to BBI!
Correct.
The comments about the Giants just waking up and realizing Flowers sucks are hilarious. There’s a lot more to this whole thing than just what happens on Sunday’s.
Negative. According to Rappaport, Wheeler has been practicing w the 1’s all week.
This looks like DG’s clean slate for Flowers is no longer clean. They gave him a shot at RT and he’s been terrible. Looks like the Flowers era is over.
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If Ommameh (sp?) continues to struggle, I wonder if Flowers would get a look at G. I vaguely remember discussion that he projected inside as well.
barring a new injury at tackle, its over for him as a NYG...
I actually think that they are going to give Flowers a chance at guard. It’s worked with other offensive lineman. The change also shows the team that no one is on scholarship anymore. The players need to play for their jobs.
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Flowers isn’t the most mature guy. I can see him mouthing off, or more likely, not putting the work in to get better.
Negative. According to Rappaport, Wheeler has been practicing w the 1’s all week.
This looks like DG’s clean slate for Flowers is no longer clean. They gave him a shot at RT and he’s been terrible. Looks like the Flowers era is over.
I’m sure this is true, but I find it hard to believe that none of the reporters mentioned anything about this throughout the week?
Unless you’re saying Rappaport did mention it earlier in the week. But I’m taking your post to mean he’s said it this morning
Maybe move him to RT and Greco/Pulley at RG/C.
Bad pick, bad situation that he had to play LT so quickly, bad decision to not find real competition each offseason, bad idea to keep hoping he would improve.
just kind of bad...
Wheeler looked much better during his rookie preseason snaps on the left side. Moreover, I recall reading a couple weeks ago a coach, I do not recall who, it might have been an anonymous quote, saying that Wheeler was much better on the left side.
I'm hopeful, but not expecting too much out of Wheeler. I'll be looking for a tight end or running back lined up on his side.
Ugh.
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In comment 14089521 mikeinbloomfield said:
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Flowers isn’t the most mature guy. I can see him mouthing off, or more likely, not putting the work in to get better.
Negative. According to Rappaport, Wheeler has been practicing w the 1’s all week.
This looks like DG’s clean slate for Flowers is no longer clean. They gave him a shot at RT and he’s been terrible. Looks like the Flowers era is over.
I’m sure this is true, but I find it hard to believe that none of the reporters mentioned anything about this throughout the week?
Unless you’re saying Rappaport did mention it earlier in the week. But I’m taking your post to mean he’s said it this morning
My understanding is that the Giants kept it a secret so Houston wouldn’t be able to prepare.
So careful what you wish for here....
Finally, this is recognition by Shurmur that Flowers is not improving enough to continue to give him playing time, and he won’t be here next year anyway.
Let someone else try to get Flowers to try LG.
So careful what you wish for here....
Yea, I don't understand why Flowers was singled-out after last week's game. Unless it's just a matter of they're not being comfortable with anyone on the roster being able to move in for Omameh. Solder has been terrible too, but with how much money they committed to him he's likely untouchable.
So careful what you wish for here....
Yea, I don't understand why Flowers was singled-out after last week's game. Unless it's just a matter of they're not being comfortable with anyone on the roster being able to move in for Omameh. Solder has been terrible too, but with how much money they committed to him he's likely untouchable.
That's a good one, we need humor with this team.
Got to be done because Flowers has run out of excuses.
Oh and please, no more snickering at the Browns. We are the Browns with a more stable qb situation and ODB. Familiar situation for Shurmer who has to be wondering why he left Minneapolis.
In the meeting room Flowers asked coach "Hows do's I block teh speed rusher JJ Wut?"
I doubt it. Others said Willie actually played well. Once I saw some analysis saying from PFF that the giants OLINE was about 23 -- at that point for this point in time we have to recognize the ones who analyze are clueless. Thus I can't believe Flowers was the best if any supposed "expert" claimed so.
Got to be done because Flowers has run out of excuses.
Oh and please, no more snickering at the Browns. We are the Browns with a more stable qb situation and ODB. Familiar situation for Shurmer who has to be wondering why he left Minneapolis.
I say this as someone who still thinks Eli might have something left in the tank, but the Browns right now have a more stable QB situation than we do.
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Flowers isn’t the most mature guy. I can see him mouthing off, or more likely, not putting the work in to get better.
In the meeting room Flowers asked coach "Hows do's I block teh speed rusher JJ Wut?"
Wow. Where did that come from?
Hopefully Wheeler outplayed Flowers during practice this week..
You feel sorry for him? He's in his second year in the NFL. He's getting a chance to start. This is part of the job - you know actually playing. No one is expecting him to shut down anybody, just do a halfway decent job and don't let his man single handedly beat us. If he can't do that then maybe he doesn't belong in the league.
Geoff Schwartz
@geoffschwartz
He doesn’t care.
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Jonathan Morales
@JonMorales1980
Replying to @geoffschwartz
I get that, just hate to see all that potential be a waste. You were in that locker room does the kid just not work on it, or is it just reverting to bad habit during play?
10:25 AM · Sep 23, 2018
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Geoff Schwartz
Geoff Schwartz
@geoffschwartz
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1h
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@geoffschwartz
I think Ereck Flowers cares about the game. I don’t think he cares much about getting better. I’m not knocking his work ethic. He worked hard in the weight room and at practice. But taking the time to work details and want to get better, I didn’t see it.
Jackie Slater swears that this kid can be good. Yeah, USC homer-vision, definitely a possibility. But, his opinion was very strong and he could have been supportive without going all in.
The move makes sense - you get better by playing, that is, if you are going to get better. Flowers has had more than his share of opportunities to get better.
I expect the rest of the OLine to settle down.
Couple of non-expert observations about Flowers. For a guy as strong as he is - I would expect a pretty good punch. I watched a few plays in which he didn't deliver a powerful jolt. Rather. his arms seemed to slowly roll out, unfurling if you will. In addition to his lack of bend - he seemed uncoordinated, never got hands/feet thing working smoothly.
Sometimes a player's deficiencies require unorthodox compensatory adjustments. Wonder if a lot of heavy bag work might have helped him? And, along those lines adjusting the punch so it may have favored one hand or the other.
Finally, given the fact that he does not seem to move well backwards, laterally, and in reaction to others - I will always wonder if he was miscast. Could he have been any worse as a DT or 3-4 DE? Doubtful.
We aren't trading Flowers, and he isn't a guard.
Reese's inability to find OL in the draft or via FA damaged Eli's career, but I'm beginning to think DG has just continued that problem by overpaying for Solder and Omameh. Maybe he should have signed Fleming or Hubbard.
And we still have Kaelin Clay on the team for some reason.
The defense seem porous and the special teams aren't special. And Solder doesn't look like he is worth anything like what we're paying for him.
enough game time reps to have any kind of continuity .
This reeks of desperation . I mean is Flowers just
shitting the bed in practice as well .
Wheeler Watt match-up talk about a 2nd baptism ..
It just shows really of JR and company's failures in the draft I mean basically none of the later round players
panned out either . While were forced to use other teams
late round picks .
Gonna have to grin and bear it and hope Eli doesn't get killed or get himself killed
That big hit he took last week was dangerous ..
Shurmur re: Flowers benching - ( New Window )
Even if Wheeler plays well, inserting him won't make any difference if we can't pick up basic stunts and blitzes.
Solder said nobody on the line picked up any blitz last week. Total breakdown by the entire line. He had no problem speaking for the rest of his line mates