"I feel like the guys up front put a scare in the quarterback, rushing him the way they rushed," #Saints cornerback Ken Crawley said. "I know there were some shots there downfield, but he didn't take them."
The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys open—nicks and plax— now he won’t make the throw period—
He also won’t take the hit to make the throw either
This is the point. We can all see the oline is inconsistent. We also see receivers open and balls sailing over their heads. It only takes a few missed plays per game to ruin it. Whether it is Deayon not able to make two tackles to end a drive, Eli missing multiple open people for big gains, oline missing a stunt or the coach mismanaging the clock. Add all those screw ups up and you lose the game.
I saw multiple plays where I could see a mobile QB get out of the pocket to make plays.
They have a play maker in Barkley and don't use him enough, same with Beckham. Did you see a screen pass to slow the rush or capitalize on it? Did you see Eli throw into the blitz to the vacated area?
The Giants are going to suck this year and maybe next. There are a lot of pieces of deadwood still on that roster. The line probably needs two more pieces and a few backups.
Be realistic. This is at least a two year rebuild, whether you like it or not. Good news is they will have another top five pick in the draft.
All the top 5 picks in the world won't do you a bit of difference if you have the wrong people making them.
With all the evidence that it was time to move on, the Giants relieved Reese and McAdoo of their duties. Good move. So what do they do next? They bring back Gettleman and hire Shurmur. And so far, neither one has done anything to inspire any sort of confidence that they know what they're doing.
Gettleman's first order of business? To declare that the scouting department doesn't need major changes, to say that Eli's not done, and to hire some FAs that so far have been utterly disappointing.
They fired Reese - but kept almost all the scouts who worked with him to make those picks, and brought back the guy who had been head of pro personnel for most of his tenure to take the GM spot. And, they state that they're grooming another guy in the org for years to take over for when he's done.
They made almost no change - and the results still suck. Color me surprised. The fact that we'll have another high draft pick next year isn't any consolation.
The Eli lynch mob needs a few weeks of Ryan Fitzpatrick to understand where the real problem lies.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
The Eli lynch mob needs a few weeks of Ryan Fitzpatrick to understand where the real problem lies.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
During this streak of not scoring 30 points. They’ve changed the Front office, Scheme, coaches, offensive line, etc.. and one constant remains. Figure it out.
Ben McAdoo tried to stand up, and give them an out to move on and they threw him out. So here we are.
During this streak of not scoring 30 points. They’ve changed the Front office, Scheme, coaches, offensive line, etc.. and one constant remains. Figure it out.
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1. Beckham and Shepard have been constants too.
2. The OL is changed doesn’t mean it’s better.
3. Your post makes zero sense.
The Eli lynch mob needs a few weeks of Ryan Fitzpatrick to understand where the real problem lies.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
Brilliant example, except Fitzpatrick managed to score more than 26 points against this same D not too long ago. And they're not exactly running the 80's Hogs out there to block for him.
During this streak of not scoring 30 points. They’ve changed the Front office, Scheme, coaches, offensive line, etc.. and one constant remains. Figure it out.
.
1. Beckham and Shepard have been constants too.
2. The OL is changed doesn’t mean it’s better.
3. Your post makes zero sense.
Makes plenty of sense. You just choose not to see it.
refs blowing calls that paid huge dividends for the other team
we r better then last year, but we still have huge holes in this team
I think there is growing room if we get some guys back and can keep people healthy but it may be too late at this point
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and shooting themselves in the foot, they are good at that. That Deayon penalty was a killer,
they would have got the ball back with 2:30 left.
Then the Kamira run, as they say, the dagger.
Why did Shurmur keep 3 timeouts in his back pocket at the end of the first half as well. They would have had close to a minute left.
is a train wreck, but Eli is also finished. I don't know how many more games people need to see to realize he is done. This team never scores 30 points and hasn't done so on any type of consistent basis for years. Eli plays scared. It's hard to blame him for playing scared the way the line has been, but he does not even attempt to throw the ball down the field at this point. He's gun shy. Mentally he has been destroyed and physically age has caught up with him.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
Mook you get it. Others can't see it.
Tend to agree. I still think the OL is a bigger problem, but this is a very fair assessment of Eli right now.
The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys open—nicks and plax— now he won’t make the throw period—
He also won’t take the hit to make the throw either
It's actually scary that the owner, GM, and Coach thought Eli had a lot left in the tank. They were so clearly wrong about that. Physically he has lost a lot, but he is totally shot mentally. They made a bet on Eli still being capable of being a top QB in the off-season and it's pretty damn clear they were wrong about that.
It's amazing that this team has two of the most exciting players in the league on offense and still is by far the most boring offense to watch in the entire league.
that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Eli's ability to move has always been a weakness, but at this point he can't move at all. If you had a guy like Rodgers who actually can move, the line would look a hell of a lot better.
The offensive line sucks, but at this point so does Eli. Stop with the no QB could play behind this OL. A healthy Aaron Rodgers with the weapons Eli has would still put up insane numbers behind this OL. We've seen Rodgers have a horrible offensive line before and he still was a great QB.
By other teams , they see Eli on tape it’s easy to prepare for the giants
The NFL is 3/4 perception and the perception of the giants offense is they are terrible can’t block and Eli is a statue and develop they’re game plan from there .........
that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Some eople are going to look for any reason not to criticize the QB Â
that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Pittsburgh had one of the worst offensive lines with big ben at QB for a few years. Before they drafted Pouncey and all of those guys. Green Bay has had bad offensive line play at times. Whether or not they have had an oline as bad as the Giants is up for debate, but its not up for debate that they have played seasons with bad offensive line play.
But Big Ben and Rodgers can somewhat hide bad offensive line play with their ability to move and create time with their legs. Eli doesn't do that, at all. The offensive line still wouldnt be any good but if you put a QB who can create time with his legs like Rodgers does they would look a lot better than they do right now.
Eli is a below average QB at this point. He once in a while has a good game, but most games he's at best mediocre.
Rebuild already, we can lose and spend less money and there won't be a bunch of sacred cow debate going on every week. Saquon was a good pick, but it was fucking strategy to pass up on those QBs. We fucked our future as you will soon see. Wasn't Shumer some sort of QB whisperer, maybe he should whisper in Eli's ear to fucking step it up for what he is paid.
get very defensive when you say Eli isn't any good at this point on this board.
It's puzzling to me. Saying that now takes nothing away from how great he has been, but it's not up for debate that he isn't good enough anymore. He's 37. People on this board act like he's 30 with his best years potentially ahead of him if they can improve the offensive line. He is old. It happens. Time to move on
get very defensive when you say Eli isn't any good at this point on this board.
It's puzzling to me. Saying that now takes nothing away from how great he has been, but it's not up for debate that he isn't good enough anymore. He's 37. People on this board act like he's 30 with his best years potentially ahead of him if they can improve the offensive line. He is old. It happens. Time to move on
The problem isnt getting defensive. But when you say Aaron rodgers could do better...
Well of course he would because he is much better than Eli. I dont think guys like Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Flacco, would be bringing us more wins.
Guys like Rodgers and Wilson are rare commodities. Id love to have one of those QBs be our next QB, but thats unrealistic. We see mobile QBs like Gabbert, Ponder, etc get taken high and perform miserably. We see other high picks like RGIII, Wentz, Watson, Luck, Tannehill lose huge chunks of the year due to injuries.
I dont know what the answer is, but we are a long way to finding an answer, IMO.
Without “blaming” or pointing to underlying causes —
The level of production that NYG are getting from the QB position right now is not something you can afford to pay $20M+ per year for in today’s NFL. And it especially doesn’t make sense when you look at age, surrounding level of talent, and state of the franchise.
This is my take on what the fans being grouped together as Eli detractors have been saying. Of course there’s some variation around that, and it doesn’t help the discussion when people oversimplify it into “he stinks” or “he’s toast”. Statements like that are bound to get an emotional backlash.
in 2011, maybe Eli's best season as a Giant, the offensive line was anything but good for most of the season. He played great despite poor offensive line play. At age 37, Eli is not capable of doing that anymore.
How anyone can watch the Giants every week for the last 3 seasons and not come to the conclusion that Eli is finished being a good QB is beyond me. How much longer does the offense have to be a train wreck before some of you admit that Eli is also part of the problem?
12 teams this week scored 30 or more points. The Giants haven't done that once in the last 37 games. Not one fucking time. Half of the teams that played this week scored 30 points.
Sure, the offensive line sucks. But this team has weapons. To not score 30 points even once in the last 37 games is fucking pathetic. What more do you guys need to see to realize that the problem is BOTH Eli AND the offensive line. We need a better quarterback and we need a better line. Not just a better line.
37 games is a plenty large enough sample size. This 37 game streak is historically bad. But nope, the QB isn't a problem.
Without “blaming” or pointing to underlying causes —
The level of production that NYG are getting from the QB position right now is not something you can afford to pay $20M+ per year for in today’s NFL. And it especially doesn’t make sense when you look at age, surrounding level of talent, and state of the franchise.
This is my take on what the fans being grouped together as Eli detractors have been saying. Of course there’s some variation around that, and it doesn’t help the discussion when people oversimplify it into “he stinks” or “he’s toast”. Statements like that are bound to get an emotional backlash.
And that certainly is a problem. No disagreement.
My argument is simple. It doesnt matter if Eli is good/bad anymore - the OL is going to be our downfall no matter who takes the snaps.
in 2011, maybe Eli's best season as a Giant, the offensive line was anything but good for most of the season. He played great despite poor offensive line play. At age 37, Eli is not capable of doing that anymore.
How anyone can watch the Giants every week for the last 3 seasons and not come to the conclusion that Eli is finished being a good QB is beyond me. How much longer does the offense have to be a train wreck before some of you admit that Eli is also part of the problem?
12 teams this week scored 30 or more points. The Giants haven't done that once in the last 37 games. Not one fucking time. Half of the teams that played this week scored 30 points.
Sure, the offensive line sucks. But this team has weapons. To not score 30 points even once in the last 37 games is fucking pathetic. What more do you guys need to see to realize that the problem is BOTH Eli AND the offensive line. We need a better quarterback and we need a better line. Not just a better line.
37 games is a plenty large enough sample size. This 37 game streak is historically bad. But nope, the QB isn't a problem.
Mook,
the 2011 OL was a very good pass blocking team. We dont run or pass block.
We can replace Eli for all I care. With this unit we have blocking, we are a top 10 draft picking team every year.
was a clown in many ways and a lot of people wanted to blame the struggles of the offense on him, but it wasn't on him. The offensive line play and the QB's play has been complete shit since McAdoo got the head coaching job.
The GM and Owner believed that Eli had a couple more at least solid years left in his tank.
That should scare the hell out of any Giants fan. Those 2 are the ones running this franchise right now and they clearly were wrong about Eli. He doesn't have anything left in the tank. Spare me what he did last week against the Texans. That was called a fluke.
they were average, and they couldn't run block for shit.
Eli stood on his head that year. The offensive line was gettign their asses kicked by the 49ers in the NFC title game and Eli was standing in there slinging it all over the field.
Eli Manning is a below average QB at this point in his career. And that is probably being kind. How many years worth of futility on offense will it take for people to realize it's him and the OL, not just the OL
He's not even close to that QB anymore. Watch how he handles that pass rush. It's night and day. He doesn't have that kind of game in him anymore, he's played behind a bad line too long.
Easier said than done. There aren't enough OL to go around and the unit was in such shambles last year that it required a multiple year rebuild. The organization made a massive mistake in the early part of this decade by not proactively addressing an aging unit and then doubled down on that mistake the last 5 years with shitty scouting compounded by desperation. They are not going to be a top unit this year or even next. The Eli criticisms come when people act like he can get it done behind an average to mediocre line, I don't think he can. I think he needs to be playing behind the Eagles or Chiefs line to succeed, we aren't even close to there and won't be any time soon.
1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
The time to fix the offensive line was in the offseason. Instead, management opted to spend a #2 pick on a back and pay a WR $65M guaranteed before the OL was fixed.
Easier said than done. There aren't enough OL to go around and the unit was in such shambles last year that it required a multiple year rebuild. The organization made a massive mistake in the early part of this decade by not proactively addressing an aging unit and then doubled down on that mistake the last 5 years with shitty scouting compounded by desperation. They are not going to be a top unit this year or even next. The Eli criticisms come when people act like he can get it done behind an average to mediocre line, I don't think he can. I think he needs to be playing behind the Eagles or Chiefs line to succeed, we aren't even close to there and won't be any time soon.
You're absolutely right. It's just a travesty that this hasn't been done for years.
I realize it won't get done this year or next (probably), but it should have been noticed for years before.
I don't think Eli needs an elite line, just a consistent line (which isn't there).
1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
I don't want a rehash of David Carr/Ryan Leaf, where the line sucks and the QB gets destroyed. We won it with Coughlin's group by fixing the line. We need to do that again. Trade down if you have to, but fix the line.
no matter which side of the fence you stand on, Eli will be 38 in a few months. I'd rather make the decision to move on a year earlier rather than later.
no matter which side of the fence you stand on, Eli will be 38 in a few months. I'd rather make the decision to move on a year earlier rather than later.
The move was darnold. And I really, really like Barkley as a player.
no matter which side of the fence you stand on, Eli will be 38 in a few months. I'd rather make the decision to move on a year earlier rather than later.
was a clown in many ways and a lot of people wanted to blame the struggles of the offense on him, but it wasn't on him. The offensive line play and the QB's play has been complete shit since McAdoo got the head coaching job.
The GM and Owner believed that Eli had a couple more at least solid years left in his tank.
That should scare the hell out of any Giants fan. Those 2 are the ones running this franchise right now and they clearly were wrong about Eli. He doesn't have anything left in the tank. Spare me what he did last week against the Texans. That was called a fluke.
Back with your usual prescription that someone needs to be fired. Let's run down the list: Fewell, Killdrive, Coughlin, McAdoo, Reese . . .? Wow, you have quite a track record. What scares me is that there are Giant fans like you with your succession of quick fixes. Had enough of your ilk back in the 60's and 70's- and we are getting much the same results now as then. So, who do you want to fire after Eli because this will be the same shitshow.
every day of the week, and it rains on Monday, on Tuesday, on Wednesday, and on Thursday, it's not "hearing footsteps" to decide Friday morning move Friday's event indoors even if it eventually clears up later in the day.
When Eli is staring down a pass rush on seemingly every drop back from all sides, he's not then hearing footsteps when he decides to get rid of the ball quickly or go to his first read on a play where the line actually maintained a pocket.
It would be foolish of Eli to have the memory of a goldfish and assume that the line is going to hold up for him to go through all his reads on any given play.
RE: RE: RE: I don't see this as rocket science.. Â
1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
I don't want a rehash of David Carr/Ryan Leaf, where the line sucks and the QB gets destroyed.
So don't play the future QB. Just like the Giants didnt play a rookie QB and wouldn't have played him at all if Kurt Warner wasnt a shell shocked zombie.
that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Pittsburgh had one of the worst offensive lines with big ben at QB for a few years. Before they drafted Pouncey and all of those guys. Green Bay has had bad offensive line play at times. Whether or not they have had an oline as bad as the Giants is up for debate, but its not up for debate that they have played seasons with bad offensive line play.
But Big Ben and Rodgers can somewhat hide bad offensive line play with their ability to move and create time with their legs. Eli doesn't do that, at all. The offensive line still wouldnt be any good but if you put a QB who can create time with his legs like Rodgers does they would look a lot better than they do right now.
Eli is a below average QB at this point. He once in a while has a good game, but most games he's at best mediocre.
I am not defending Eli but when was the last time either of these 2 QB’s won a SB. By the way Ben Rothlisberger has had a great supporting cast for the last 5 years and has has not gotten to the big game.
Quote:
In comment 14100507 B in ALB said:
Quote:
The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys open—nicks and plax— now he won’t make the throw period—
He also won’t take the hit to make the throw either
This is the point. We can all see the oline is inconsistent. We also see receivers open and balls sailing over their heads. It only takes a few missed plays per game to ruin it. Whether it is Deayon not able to make two tackles to end a drive, Eli missing multiple open people for big gains, oline missing a stunt or the coach mismanaging the clock. Add all those screw ups up and you lose the game.
I saw multiple plays where I could see a mobile QB get out of the pocket to make plays.
They have a play maker in Barkley and don't use him enough, same with Beckham. Did you see a screen pass to slow the rush or capitalize on it? Did you see Eli throw into the blitz to the vacated area?
The Giants are going to suck this year and maybe next. There are a lot of pieces of deadwood still on that roster. The line probably needs two more pieces and a few backups.
Be realistic. This is at least a two year rebuild, whether you like it or not. Good news is they will have another top five pick in the draft.
All the top 5 picks in the world won't do you a bit of difference if you have the wrong people making them.
With all the evidence that it was time to move on, the Giants relieved Reese and McAdoo of their duties. Good move. So what do they do next? They bring back Gettleman and hire Shurmur. And so far, neither one has done anything to inspire any sort of confidence that they know what they're doing.
Gettleman's first order of business? To declare that the scouting department doesn't need major changes, to say that Eli's not done, and to hire some FAs that so far have been utterly disappointing.
They fired Reese - but kept almost all the scouts who worked with him to make those picks, and brought back the guy who had been head of pro personnel for most of his tenure to take the GM spot. And, they state that they're grooming another guy in the org for years to take over for when he's done.
They made almost no change - and the results still suck. Color me surprised. The fact that we'll have another high draft pick next year isn't any consolation.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
Boom! Too true.
Ben McAdoo tried to stand up, and give them an out to move on and they threw him out. So here we are.
Well at least we got SB and Hernandez. So let’s keep picking up pieces for the next restructuring. One of the years we will do it right...
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1. Beckham and Shepard have been constants too.
2. The OL is changed doesn’t mean it’s better.
3. Your post makes zero sense.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
Brilliant example, except Fitzpatrick managed to score more than 26 points against this same D not too long ago. And they're not exactly running the 80's Hogs out there to block for him.
"It can be worse" isn't a valid argument. What they're getting isn't good enough.
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During this streak of not scoring 30 points. They’ve changed the Front office, Scheme, coaches, offensive line, etc.. and one constant remains. Figure it out.
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1. Beckham and Shepard have been constants too.
2. The OL is changed doesn’t mean it’s better.
3. Your post makes zero sense.
Makes plenty of sense. You just choose not to see it.
the Oline
the Play calling
Giving up on the run game
D isn't making plays at important moments
refs blowing calls that paid huge dividends for the other team
we r better then last year, but we still have huge holes in this team
I think there is growing room if we get some guys back and can keep people healthy but it may be too late at this point
and shooting themselves in the foot, they are good at that. That Deayon penalty was a killer,
they would have got the ball back with 2:30 left.
Then the Kamira run, as they say, the dagger.
Why did Shurmur keep 3 timeouts in his back pocket at the end of the first half as well. They would have had close to a minute left.
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The Eli lynch mob needs a few weeks of Ryan Fitzpatrick to understand where the real problem lies.
"It can be worse" isn't a valid argument. What they're getting isn't good enough.
Ryan Fitzpatrick lit up this Saints 'D' for 48 points this year, just saying.
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is a train wreck, but Eli is also finished. I don't know how many more games people need to see to realize he is done. This team never scores 30 points and hasn't done so on any type of consistent basis for years. Eli plays scared. It's hard to blame him for playing scared the way the line has been, but he does not even attempt to throw the ball down the field at this point. He's gun shy. Mentally he has been destroyed and physically age has caught up with him.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
Mook you get it. Others can't see it.
Tend to agree. I still think the OL is a bigger problem, but this is a very fair assessment of Eli right now.
wtf?
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The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys open—nicks and plax— now he won’t make the throw period—
He also won’t take the hit to make the throw either
It's actually scary that the owner, GM, and Coach thought Eli had a lot left in the tank. They were so clearly wrong about that. Physically he has lost a lot, but he is totally shot mentally. They made a bet on Eli still being capable of being a top QB in the off-season and it's pretty damn clear they were wrong about that.
It's amazing that this team has two of the most exciting players in the league on offense and still is by far the most boring offense to watch in the entire league.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Eli's ability to move has always been a weakness, but at this point he can't move at all. If you had a guy like Rodgers who actually can move, the line would look a hell of a lot better.
The offensive line sucks, but at this point so does Eli. Stop with the no QB could play behind this OL. A healthy Aaron Rodgers with the weapons Eli has would still put up insane numbers behind this OL. We've seen Rodgers have a horrible offensive line before and he still was a great QB.
The NFL is 3/4 perception and the perception of the giants offense is they are terrible can’t block and Eli is a statue and develop they’re game plan from there .........
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
There's a reasonable amount of blame to assign to Eli, but any suggestion of that sets people's hair on fire.
I still think they should have taken a QB.
I was also a "draft a QB" guy, but Barkley is a special talent. We'll find a QB solution, draft some OL and pass rushers and we will improve.
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that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Pittsburgh had one of the worst offensive lines with big ben at QB for a few years. Before they drafted Pouncey and all of those guys. Green Bay has had bad offensive line play at times. Whether or not they have had an oline as bad as the Giants is up for debate, but its not up for debate that they have played seasons with bad offensive line play.
But Big Ben and Rodgers can somewhat hide bad offensive line play with their ability to move and create time with their legs. Eli doesn't do that, at all. The offensive line still wouldnt be any good but if you put a QB who can create time with his legs like Rodgers does they would look a lot better than they do right now.
Eli is a below average QB at this point. He once in a while has a good game, but most games he's at best mediocre.
+
It's puzzling to me. Saying that now takes nothing away from how great he has been, but it's not up for debate that he isn't good enough anymore. He's 37. People on this board act like he's 30 with his best years potentially ahead of him if they can improve the offensive line. He is old. It happens. Time to move on
It's puzzling to me. Saying that now takes nothing away from how great he has been, but it's not up for debate that he isn't good enough anymore. He's 37. People on this board act like he's 30 with his best years potentially ahead of him if they can improve the offensive line. He is old. It happens. Time to move on
The problem isnt getting defensive. But when you say Aaron rodgers could do better...
Well of course he would because he is much better than Eli. I dont think guys like Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Flacco, would be bringing us more wins.
Guys like Rodgers and Wilson are rare commodities. Id love to have one of those QBs be our next QB, but thats unrealistic. We see mobile QBs like Gabbert, Ponder, etc get taken high and perform miserably. We see other high picks like RGIII, Wentz, Watson, Luck, Tannehill lose huge chunks of the year due to injuries.
I dont know what the answer is, but we are a long way to finding an answer, IMO.
The level of production that NYG are getting from the QB position right now is not something you can afford to pay $20M+ per year for in today’s NFL. And it especially doesn’t make sense when you look at age, surrounding level of talent, and state of the franchise.
This is my take on what the fans being grouped together as Eli detractors have been saying. Of course there’s some variation around that, and it doesn’t help the discussion when people oversimplify it into “he stinks” or “he’s toast”. Statements like that are bound to get an emotional backlash.
How anyone can watch the Giants every week for the last 3 seasons and not come to the conclusion that Eli is finished being a good QB is beyond me. How much longer does the offense have to be a train wreck before some of you admit that Eli is also part of the problem?
12 teams this week scored 30 or more points. The Giants haven't done that once in the last 37 games. Not one fucking time. Half of the teams that played this week scored 30 points.
Sure, the offensive line sucks. But this team has weapons. To not score 30 points even once in the last 37 games is fucking pathetic. What more do you guys need to see to realize that the problem is BOTH Eli AND the offensive line. We need a better quarterback and we need a better line. Not just a better line.
37 games is a plenty large enough sample size. This 37 game streak is historically bad. But nope, the QB isn't a problem.
The level of production that NYG are getting from the QB position right now is not something you can afford to pay $20M+ per year for in today’s NFL. And it especially doesn’t make sense when you look at age, surrounding level of talent, and state of the franchise.
This is my take on what the fans being grouped together as Eli detractors have been saying. Of course there’s some variation around that, and it doesn’t help the discussion when people oversimplify it into “he stinks” or “he’s toast”. Statements like that are bound to get an emotional backlash.
And that certainly is a problem. No disagreement.
My argument is simple. It doesnt matter if Eli is good/bad anymore - the OL is going to be our downfall no matter who takes the snaps.
How anyone can watch the Giants every week for the last 3 seasons and not come to the conclusion that Eli is finished being a good QB is beyond me. How much longer does the offense have to be a train wreck before some of you admit that Eli is also part of the problem?
12 teams this week scored 30 or more points. The Giants haven't done that once in the last 37 games. Not one fucking time. Half of the teams that played this week scored 30 points.
Sure, the offensive line sucks. But this team has weapons. To not score 30 points even once in the last 37 games is fucking pathetic. What more do you guys need to see to realize that the problem is BOTH Eli AND the offensive line. We need a better quarterback and we need a better line. Not just a better line.
37 games is a plenty large enough sample size. This 37 game streak is historically bad. But nope, the QB isn't a problem.
Mook,
the 2011 OL was a very good pass blocking team. We dont run or pass block.
We can replace Eli for all I care. With this unit we have blocking, we are a top 10 draft picking team every year.
The GM and Owner believed that Eli had a couple more at least solid years left in his tank.
That should scare the hell out of any Giants fan. Those 2 are the ones running this franchise right now and they clearly were wrong about Eli. He doesn't have anything left in the tank. Spare me what he did last week against the Texans. That was called a fluke.
Eli stood on his head that year. The offensive line was gettign their asses kicked by the 49ers in the NFC title game and Eli was standing in there slinging it all over the field.
Eli Manning is a below average QB at this point in his career. And that is probably being kind. How many years worth of futility on offense will it take for people to realize it's him and the OL, not just the OL
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
The time to fix the offensive line was in the offseason. Instead, management opted to spend a #2 pick on a back and pay a WR $65M guaranteed before the OL was fixed.
You're absolutely right. It's just a travesty that this hasn't been done for years.
I realize it won't get done this year or next (probably), but it should have been noticed for years before.
I don't think Eli needs an elite line, just a consistent line (which isn't there).
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
Never said it was an easy thing to do. But its a lot more difficult to do when your basically only buy a lottery ticket to find one.
It isn't. It's really hard. That's why punting away the opportunity they just had to get one was such an enormous error.
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1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
I don't want a rehash of David Carr/Ryan Leaf, where the line sucks and the QB gets destroyed. We won it with Coughlin's group by fixing the line. We need to do that again. Trade down if you have to, but fix the line.
The move was darnold. And I really, really like Barkley as a player.
Mara is too tied to Eli
2016 is over...
The GM and Owner believed that Eli had a couple more at least solid years left in his tank.
That should scare the hell out of any Giants fan. Those 2 are the ones running this franchise right now and they clearly were wrong about Eli. He doesn't have anything left in the tank. Spare me what he did last week against the Texans. That was called a fluke.
When Eli is staring down a pass rush on seemingly every drop back from all sides, he's not then hearing footsteps when he decides to get rid of the ball quickly or go to his first read on a play where the line actually maintained a pocket.
It would be foolish of Eli to have the memory of a goldfish and assume that the line is going to hold up for him to go through all his reads on any given play.
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In comment 14101702 TheEvilLurker said:
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1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
I don't want a rehash of David Carr/Ryan Leaf, where the line sucks and the QB gets destroyed.
So don't play the future QB. Just like the Giants didnt play a rookie QB and wouldn't have played him at all if Kurt Warner wasnt a shell shocked zombie.
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In comment 14101323 MookGiants said:
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that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Pittsburgh had one of the worst offensive lines with big ben at QB for a few years. Before they drafted Pouncey and all of those guys. Green Bay has had bad offensive line play at times. Whether or not they have had an oline as bad as the Giants is up for debate, but its not up for debate that they have played seasons with bad offensive line play.
But Big Ben and Rodgers can somewhat hide bad offensive line play with their ability to move and create time with their legs. Eli doesn't do that, at all. The offensive line still wouldnt be any good but if you put a QB who can create time with his legs like Rodgers does they would look a lot better than they do right now.
Eli is a below average QB at this point. He once in a while has a good game, but most games he's at best mediocre.