"I feel like the guys up front put a scare in the quarterback, rushing him the way they rushed," #Saints cornerback Ken Crawley said. "I know there were some shots there downfield, but he didn't take them."
i agree, he needs to take shots, but you know the saints pass defense beyond 20 or so isnt good, why wasnt the gameplan by shurmur to stretch the field? Why isnt he calling plays to stretch the seam?
Hes getting hit a lot. And DL guys love playing vs Eli who is essentially a statue. He lies down sometimes when he cant step up. I think he is known as an easy mark.
Hes getting hit a lot. And DL guys love playing vs Eli who is essentially a statue. He lies down sometimes when he cant step up. I think he is known as an easy mark.
No offense, but if Eli is shook to the point we're he's not playing as good as he should be, as good as we need, he has to go.
Even dep knows and sees it but wants to keep his schtick going.
This team has issues on offense. Eli may be a functional QB but he most certainly is rapidly declining and his limitations are becoming so exacerbated that his tremendous mental acuities and intelligence cant overcome. Theres no physical dynamism in his toolkit. The deep throws are erratic even when made.
I dont know what we do the rest of the year but next offseason is huge because I think this team needs a multi year retool of which QB is just one of about five or six of glaring need and depth.
They were saying this all night in Dallas. Guys were open downfield all night. Eli looks to dump it off fast like its a hot potato once snapped. Its like he almost refuses to look for the big play. All week I felt this offense would get to/exceed 30 because the Saint D is flat out bad. Its maddening watching what is happening on that side of the ball. At what point do we finally admit Eli is equally as culpable as the OL??
RE: Eli is great, DG is a genius and Barkley is a generational talent
Hes getting hit a lot. And DL guys love playing vs Eli who is essentially a statue. He lies down sometimes when he cant step up. I think he is known as an easy mark.
No offense, but if Eli is shook to the point we're he's not playing as good as he should be, as good as we need, he has to go.
+1 ...I didn't give up on him at any time till the end of last year and now..
Play a 2 deep zone and keep everything in front of you. Game tape shows Eli isn't pushing the ball down the field.
Why?
Because we can't give him enough time.
Romo maybe a cow turd forever, but he spoke volumes tonight about our issue and he is spot on. Make the Giants have to put together 10 + play drives and drive the length of the field. To do this you have to have no penalties, no negative plays and a couple of things that just go in your favor. Very very low percentage of scoring when you have to play this way. Too much to chance of something going wrong when you don't get yardage in large chunks and the teams we play see it and are winning on those odds alone.
Everyone here feels a debt of gratitude for what Eli has done. But it s ok to understand he has been part of the problem, it doesn't make you an ingrate or disloyal.
When you continually deflect any blame from Eli, you lose credibility.
Yes he can still play, but he has not been the solution for this team for a while now. Chasing past glory is a good way to put a team in the doldrums
Eli dumps it off to stay in positive down and distance with Barkley on the team. With this line, why hold it and risk a sack fumble? Or throw it up and risk an int. This offense has almost no room for error. Why are fans killing Eli for driving the offense as methodically as possible?
And what did you see? You watch the game from an all-22 view that you saw guys wide open?
Jesus fucking Christ. This place is embarrassing after a loss.
I saw a QB play really marginal and mediocre football today. Did a poor job of running the offense. We saw Dr. Jekyll last Sunday. We got Mr. Hyde today.
You want to blame Shurmur? Go ahead. But the QB was responsible for a lot of easy reads by the defense, soft decision making, missed throws.
Its impossible to get first downs cause we dont have WRs running routes pst the marker. Thats coaching.
Dude, come on, we get it. You will never fault him for anything. Why even comment on anything here that is Eli related when everyone and their mother know exactly what your answer will be? It's never his fault, never ever ever ever ever. He's cooked dude, just watch, well don't actually you won't see anything but a halo over his head and evil souls surrounding him like his OL just opened the Ark of the Covenant and he's helpless to do anything close his eyes or risk being melted into goo.
show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
Eli dumps it off to stay in positive down and distance with Barkley on the team. With this line, why hold it and risk a sack fumble? Or throw it up and risk an int. This offense has almost no room for error. Why are fans killing Eli for driving the offense as methodically as possible?
Because we've already killed the OL and beaten the corpse into a bloody corpse. Eli isn't good for us, hasn't been for a while now. He deserves some heat.
Its impossible to get first downs cause we dont have WRs running routes pst the marker. Thats coaching.
Dude, come on, we get it. You will never fault him for anything. Why even comment on anything here that is Eli related when everyone and their mother know exactly what your answer will be? It's never his fault, never ever ever ever ever. He's cooked dude, just watch, well don't actually you won't see anything but a halo over his head and evil souls surrounding him like his OL just opened the Ark of the Covenant and he's helpless to do anything close his eyes or risk being melted into goo.
I get it too. When we lose, its all on him and we cant comment on other players on the team.
Jesus Christ. Show me one time today I said were he played even good. Just show it.
Hes getting hit a lot. And DL guys love playing vs Eli who is essentially a statue. He lies down sometimes when he cant step up. I think he is known as an easy mark.
No offense, but if Eli is shook to the point we're he's not playing as good as he should be, as good as we need, he has to go.
This very much. People questioning Shurmur not calling plays to go downfield dont know that he isnt. Eli, while maybe lacking faith in his OL, seems very quick to check out of letting the play develop downfield. Weird thing is last week he wasnt.
One thing I think Eli has been bad about is not looking to Beckham more. He used to put it up for Plax, Nicks and others even if it was a 50/50 ball in order to let those guys make a play.
If nothing else, it seems to me that Eli lacks that killer instinct he once had.
That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
no romo didnt say that. romo said the giants arent playing well on the interior to allow eli to step up. he actually said solder was a good addition, but interior has to play better, to much pressure in his face. again, i think eli isnt part of the solution as he cant escape, however, i see other QBs with all fuckin day to throw...when is the last time you aid, holy shit eli has all day to scan the field lol...i literally cannot remmeber the last time eli had enough time to take a nap, meanwhile i see it regularly with some OLs
For several years
Its called David Carr syndrome- it goes away for a game here and there-but the end result is a qb that is no longer comfortable- and is easy to scheme against
That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
And I said Eli missed a few throws about 75 times already. lol. The Always Eli is a much, much, muuch bigger crowd than the never Eli's.
Romo ripped the Giants OL and play calling all game. But that must have been your selective hearing.
show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
Hes making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now cant make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
no romo didnt say that. romo said the giants arent playing well on the interior to allow eli to step up. he actually said solder was a good addition, but interior has to play better, to much pressure in his face. again, i think eli isnt part of the solution as he cant escape, however, i see other QBs with all fuckin day to throw...when is the last time you aid, holy shit eli has all day to scan the field lol...i literally cannot remmeber the last time eli had enough time to take a nap, meanwhile i see it regularly with some OLs
The OL played well in the 1st half. They had a bad third quarter for sure. Saints went up the gut on some gap blitzing in the third.
Romo was pretty fair all game. I dont get the hate some had for him in the game thread.
Against Watt and co but hes cooked this week? Sy and others have repeatedly said this Oline isnt much better so why are some claiming that Eli is the one who is cooked? Odd logic here.
And didnt Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
no romo didnt say that. romo said the giants arent playing well on the interior to allow eli to step up. he actually said solder was a good addition, but interior has to play better, to much pressure in his face. again, i think eli isnt part of the solution as he cant escape, however, i see other QBs with all fuckin day to throw...when is the last time you aid, holy shit eli has all day to scan the field lol...i literally cannot remmeber the last time eli had enough time to take a nap, meanwhile i see it regularly with some OLs
The OL played well in the 1st half. They had a bad third quarter for sure. Saints went up the gut on some gap blitzing in the third.
Romo was pretty fair all game. I dont get the hate
some had for him in the game thread.
i love romo as a commentator. he knows the game and is pretty fair, i think he knows eli is on decline and understands he needs a pretty clean pocket and in key spots, he really doesnt get it...
show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
Hes making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now cant make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
You keep concentrating on getting rid of Eli. Fine. Lets get rid of him. Draft a rookie QB and hope for the best.
Meanwhile our number 2 pick, who is a FANTASTIC player, has 44 carries for 121 yards (less than 3 YPC btw) outside two runs where he got it all by himself.
That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
no romo didnt say that. romo said the giants arent playing well on the interior to allow eli to step up. he actually said solder was a good addition, but interior has to play better, to much pressure in his face. again, i think eli isnt part of the solution as he cant escape, however, i see other QBs with all fuckin day to throw...when is the last time you aid, holy shit eli has all day to scan the field lol...i literally cannot remmeber the last time eli had enough time to take a nap, meanwhile i see it regularly with some OLs
The OL played well in the 1st half. They had a bad third quarter for sure. Saints went up the gut on some gap blitzing in the third.
Romo was pretty fair all game. I dont get the hate some had for him in the game thread.
It was definitely the middle pressure that they got that really hurt us offensively
Against Watt and co but hes cooked this week? Sy and others have repeatedly said this Oline isnt much better so why are some claiming that Eli is the one who is cooked? Odd logic here.
And didnt Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
agreed. eli gets a ton of shit.
he isnt a part of the solution tho and the giants should move on in 19 or 20 the latest. that being said he does get ALOT of heat...we know he is slow and cant escape, so the push against our interior is killer...OL just isnt good, i mean we see it all game. even barkley gets hit in backfield often.
show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
Hes making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now cant make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
You keep concentrating on getting rid of Eli. Fine. Lets get rid of him. Draft a rookie QB and hope for the best.
Meanwhile our number 2 pick, who is a FANTASTIC player, has 44 carries for 121 yards (less than 3 YPC btw) outside two runs where he got it all by himself.
refs blowing calls that paid huge dividends for the other team
we r better then last year, but we still have huge holes in this team
I think there is growing room if we get some guys back and can keep people healthy but it may be too late at this point
This 👆💯
Uhhh no.... not this ⬆️.
You cant expect the D to play better than it has. the offense has been dead for multiple reasons...including Eli. This is the second game that Eli has looked like check down Charlie. People who say its only the O- Line are just not watching everything. Eli is looking for safety first before all else.Defenses know it too! They wont stop pressuring him until he shows the ability or at least the effort of attempting to make them pay for it. Hes not even making the correct reads consistently.
that count. They haven't scored 30 points since 2015. The GM is 68 next year. The QB is 38 next year. Their cap is a mess with old very top heavy players. They just drafted a RB #2 who while talented has not been touched by the hand of god and certainly isn't a generational player because if he is what is 30 on the Rams or 21 on Dallas or 41 on NO or 27 on JAX or several others. The Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL with no end to that in sight.
Against Watt and co but hes cooked this week? Sy and others have repeatedly said this Oline isnt much better so why are some claiming that Eli is the one who is cooked? Odd logic here.
And didnt Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
A struggling Colts offense just hung 31 on that Texans D in regulation. Eli had a good game last week, there's no denying that. But the bad games are more consistent. This was a game where the OL wasn't great, but didn't kill him and we faced a bad defense. No consistency on offense, no points. This has been going on forever and he's the QB.
Is awful. With weapons like OBJ and Barkley. I personally would know how to move the chains and put up points. You run the ball often into the mouth of the defense. And keep pounding it until barkley breaks one. Then defense has to respect it and you go up top to OBJ.
how you fixing not picking up simple stunts and OL whiffing on blitzers?
Get rid of Eli, even the Russell Wilon's of the world will struggle with that.
Im expecting better coaching and scheming which can be limited with what you have to work with. This scouting group better start hitting on OL picks these next couple years. Solder is a temporary fit for a couple seasons. Right now theres three starting spots up for grabs and a couple reserve spots still that need good depth.
Im already moving to look to the future. I love this team but when I watch Eli play QB I feel like have to take a Viagra or Cialis to believe in this team or winning.
Eli doesn't have one much of the time. Watching Flacci behind his line throwing deep accurate passes is reminding me what we are missing.
Eli is not without blame but it seems as though the game plan is to protect the football first and foremost. Eli only has 1 interception this year. He is being very cautious with his passing. Again, lots of check downs, and short passes.
I am hoping Shurmur encourages Eli to take more shots downfield. Even if you don't connect in a pass you can loosen up the defense or draw a PI.
that count. They haven't scored 30 points since 2015. The GM is 68 next year. The QB is 38 next year. Their cap is a mess with old very top heavy players. They just drafted a RB #2 who while talented has not been touched by the hand of god and certainly isn't a generational player because if he is what is 30 on the Rams or 21 on Dallas or 41 on NO or 27 on JAX or several others. The Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL with no end to that in sight.
youre out of your mind if you dont think barkley is generational. he is already thru 4 games one of the most talented backs in football. his ability to maintain balance and accelerate is like no other back. if we had a decent OL, this kid would have 200 yards from scrimmage on a few occasions. barkley is probably the only reason to tune into giants games as it currently stands
We have been looking to do that for the last 7 years. Hasnt worked.
Theyve fired many of those decision makers. The NFL despite its not for long pun and identity, generally requires 2-3 years for regimes to really build and infuse their identity in football teams in the talent, discipline, schemes, etc.
2020 will be the make or break year for Gettleman and Shurmur.
Stop it. Clearly some believe they can go win SBs with one of these new shiny QBs playing pinball football and winning fantasy football points, until they go into their sophomore years and defenses have enough film on them and they move onto the next shiny QB.
Eli is actually throwing the ball extremely well but there are going to be ups and downs with this new team
show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
Hes making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now cant make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
You keep concentrating on getting rid of Eli. Fine. Lets get rid of him. Draft a rookie QB and hope for the best.
Meanwhile our number 2 pick, who is a FANTASTIC player, has 44 carries for 121 yards (less than 3 YPC btw) outside two runs where he got it all by himself.
How you fixing that?
It's Eli's fault the oline can't open up a running lane.
that count. They haven't scored 30 points since 2015. The GM is 68 next year. The QB is 38 next year. Their cap is a mess with old very top heavy players. They just drafted a RB #2 who while talented has not been touched by the hand of god and certainly isn't a generational player because if he is what is 30 on the Rams or 21 on Dallas or 41 on NO or 27 on JAX or several others. The Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL with no end to that in sight.
Amen, brother. The folks on this board were convinced SB was a mix of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Ladanian Tomlinson, but better.. You can't be a generational talent when there are 5 guys in the league just as good as you or better... at least five... passing on a QB was a mistake we will regret for a while.
Against Watt and co but hes cooked this week? Sy and others have repeatedly said this Oline isnt much better so why are some claiming that Eli is the one who is cooked? Odd logic here.
And didnt Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
agreed. eli gets a ton of shit.
he isnt a part of the solution tho and the giants should move on in 19 or 20 the latest. that being said he does get ALOT of heat...we know he is slow and cant escape, so the push against our interior is killer...OL just isnt good, i mean we see it all game. even barkley gets hit in backfield often.
I think that's always been the plan to move on by 2020. Shore up the O-Line in a loaded O-Lineman draft next draft and grab the QB in 20
This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year...
1. The OL still sucks. We did not do enough this off season to fix it.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
that count. They haven't scored 30 points since 2015. The GM is 68 next year. The QB is 38 next year. Their cap is a mess with old very top heavy players. They just drafted a RB #2 who while talented has not been touched by the hand of god and certainly isn't a generational player because if he is what is 30 on the Rams or 21 on Dallas or 41 on NO or 27 on JAX or several others. The Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL with no end to that in sight.
You do realize that every team except for NO was shitty for a few years which allowed them to stockpile low picks
RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year...
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year...
1. The OL still sucks. We did not do enough this off season to fix it.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is a fair summation of our offense.
RE: RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year...
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
exactly. there is so much that goes into QBn in todays NFL, not every QB has great escapability....the OL especially on Interior has been poor. is pretty simple, give eli time he can throw down field, pressure in elis face, check down champs
Stop it. Clearly some believe they can go win SBs with one of these new shiny QBs playing pinball football and winning fantasy football points, until they go into their sophomore years and defenses have enough film on them and they move onto the next shiny QB.
Eli is actually throwing the ball extremely well but there are going to be ups and downs with this new team
I will agree with you 100% when it comes to certain QBs like Dak for example. However, some young QBs are simply better. The moment Mayfield came into the game last week, the Browns instantly became better than this Giants team.
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
The GOOD games from Eli are few and far between over the last number of years. One of those games last year insured his return this year (fluke Philly game). Until this team gets consistently good QB play, playoffs and/or Super Bowls are very unattainable. The last time we got good QB play week in and week out was 2011. That was fucking 7 years ago. Enough is enough.
OL is a bigger problem than OL. The proof is that they can't open holes for Barkley. But Eli is completely immobile.
I agree that at times it does seem like Eli is shell shocked from all the hits he's taken. But it's also true that he frequently doesn't have enough time, or is throwing against six or seven defenders.
The question is whether the OL can be fixed while Eli is still productive. My guess is no. The OL likely won't be full fixed until 2020. I don't see Eli lasting that long, especially given the beatings he's taking.
The first drive was great to see and I imagine the entire stadium was feeling pretty good. Then Gallman fumbles the ball, Eli and the defense save a TD.
Payton does that sneaky BS he loves doing with the fake punt and you start getting that Uh Oh feeling. Saints were on their heels and Brees wasnt playing well, but the momentum was turning. Then that putrid non horse collar call happens.
Eli drives them down again but Rhett Ellison cant hang on to that TD pass. He has to come down with that. Eli wasnt perfect but jeez, this reactionary BS is unbelievable
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
RE: RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year...
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
Dep, I never said FIRST. I said MUST. Reading comprehension brother. Yes, we have set ourselves up for failure because our OL is so bad that our QB MUST be able to avoid the first pass rusher. This is not necessarily a knock on Eli. IF anything, it shows how fucked up our front office has been for years. We lets the OL get progressively worse since 2011 KNOWING that our QB has a few limitations and that having an average OL was critical to his ability to perform.
and disguising pressures while at the same time hemming OBJ in a 1/2 field bracket. In order for Beckham to get a free release off the line, dip into a spot between corners and the safety on his side, over the linebackers, Eli is toast. Plus, the offense is predicated on some TE play which this team lost from a playmaking standpoint this week and is relying on Brett Ellison and some other guy (sorry) to fill in.
Remember Eli's years with reliable TEs who could block, catch and were athletic? They were his nice warm blanket.
He's not willing to get murdered at this point to (1) throw a pass to a spot and (2) hang in only to get smashed into the turf. He's not indestructible. And he's not a young guy anymore. I don't really blame him at this point. But he's not moving the needle and his ability to make exceptional throws under duress is very limited at this point.
It's a terrible combination of a new coach (who inspires absolutely NO confidence), new offensive line, new offensive scheme, horrific previous seasons with the pressure to succeed immediately in NY, and excellent skill players who need the ball to make a difference but aren't positioned to be successful.
Rebuild already, we can lose and spend less money and there won't be a bunch of sacred cow debate going on every week. Saquon was a good pick, but it was fucking strategy to pass up on those QBs. We fucked our future as you will soon see. Wasn't Shumer some sort of QB whisperer, maybe he should whisper in Eli's ear to fucking step it up for what he is paid.
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
Dep, I really do not care if he completed a load of passes within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. Yes, he needed to get the ball down field more. His weak OL has fucked with his mind and he simply cannot stand in there and wait for the longer plays to develop even when he does have the time. You are also correct in that the play calling has often not made sense either. What you and I will never know is whether the plays we think were stupid are the ones sent in from the sideline or ones that Eli checked to at the line. I suppose it was probably a combination of the two.
is a train wreck, but Eli is also finished. I don't know how many more games people need to see to realize he is done. This team never scores 30 points and hasn't done so on any type of consistent basis for years. Eli plays scared. It's hard to blame him for playing scared the way the line has been, but he does not even attempt to throw the ball down the field at this point. He's gun shy. Mentally he has been destroyed and physically age has caught up with him.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
What are you watching? 4-17 in their last 21 games that count. Haven't scored 30 points since 2015. What do you expect from Giant fans with that record?
Its hard for me to take any QB seriously until their sophomore year. Mayfield is fun to watch and he has an entertaining swagger that fans love but defenses will figure him out. If he lasts, then Ill throw a few flowers at his feet.
Certain match ups will give the Giants a world of trouble this season. It would be true with any of these QBs. I think fans too often need a punching bag and the only one left is Eli Manning. I dont think fans realize how much hes helping this team right now and that is very sad to witness.
Last week. I guess throwing his receivers open only counts with wins? When they lose he never threw them open and hadnt for years even though he just did this game and last week
And its really the easiest way for me to process everything. Eli isnt helping this offense. And thats a cold fucking fact. Tell me Im wrong. You cant. Why? Because this offense still fucking blows. Eli is not helping anything. Is he the source of all thats wrong? Absolutely not, but he isnt helping. This offense needs help. Maybe the giants could win with Eli but it has sure as fuck has been difficult to win with him over a long stretch now. They have to upgrade the qb position. This is getting ridiculous. Guy has one good game against the Texans and then right back to shit offense. Enough already.
Its impossible to get first downs cause we dont have WRs running routes pst the marker. Thats coaching.
Dude, come on, we get it. You will never fault him for anything. Why even comment on anything here that is Eli related when everyone and their mother know exactly what your answer will be? It's never his fault, never ever ever ever ever. He's cooked dude, just watch, well don't actually you won't see anything but a halo over his head and evil souls surrounding him like his OL just opened the Ark of the Covenant and he's helpless to do anything close his eyes or risk being melted into goo.
I get it too. When we lose, its all on him and we cant comment on other players on the team.
Jesus Christ. Show me one time today I said were he played even good. Just show it.
OH don't play all or nothing, you defend him constantly, he's a part of the problem and is the major one and has been for years. It's a swirl of shit and he's the main one but you won't say it and you'll run to his defense.
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
Yeah he completed alot of passes all check downs underneath throws the defense just gives him.. Wake me up when he throws downfield
RE: RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year...
1. The OL still sucks. We did not do enough this off season to fix it.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is a fair summation of our offense.
+2.
RE: ELi was getting praised for throwing guys open
Last week. I guess throwing his receivers open only counts with wins? When they lose he never threw them open and hadnt for years even though he just did this game and last week
ONE WEEK OUT OF FUCKING FOUR! You ok with 25%? He didn't throw anyone open, he's not that guy anymore, but you and dep can get in a sweat lodge and chant all you want and hope some ghosts come to his aid but he's fucking cooked. Look at his W-L record for 5 years and the talent he's had and then come back and trumpet more shit about him. I love the guy, he gutted us to two SB wins but he's shot and you and his roadies or groupies or whatever you people are, need to wake the fuck up to the reality of shitty QB play and realize he is at the pinnacle of it.
OH don't play all or nothing, you defend him constantly, he's a part of the problem and is the major one and has been for years. It's a swirl of shit and he's the main one but you won't say it and you'll run to his defense.
Yep, I wasnt here all offseason saying the Giants should draft his replacement and replace Eli when we were out of playoff contention.
For me, this is about Eli anymore. He is done probabyl after this year and I have been saying this for months. But replacing him is not guaranteeing success. In fact, it can get worse. We are among the leagues worst at 2 things. Blocking and rushing the passer. I dont give a shit who is our QB now. We have been overpaying for players for years trying to fix this mess. And in the end despite giving out huge contracts to OV, OBJ, Solder, Snacks, JJ - we still suck. And no I am not saying that they suck, cause some of they are very, very good players- but its not leading to wins.
You want to win, you have to totally gut the roster. And start over. We are using band aids to try to stop floods.
And its really the easiest way for me to process everything. Eli isnt helping this offense. And thats a cold fucking fact. Tell me Im wrong. You cant. Why? Because this offense still fucking blows. Eli is not helping anything. Is he the source of all thats wrong? Absolutely not, but he isnt helping. This offense needs help. Maybe the giants could win with Eli but it has sure as fuck has been difficult to win with him over a long stretch now. They have to upgrade the qb position. This is getting ridiculous. Guy has one good game against the Texans and then right back to shit offense. Enough already.
I was there last year but I really think it's beyond that. There's more and more evidence that he isn't seeing or pulling the trigger on plays that can be made. He's exaggerating the existing problems.
ONE WEEK OUT OF FUCKING FOUR! You ok with 25%? He didn't throw anyone open, he's not that guy anymore, but you and dep can get in a sweat lodge and chant all you want and hope some ghosts come to his aid but he's fucking cooked. Look at his W-L record for 5 years and the talent he's had and then come back and trumpet more shit about him. I love the guy, he gutted us to two SB wins but he's shot and you and his roadies or groupies or whatever you people are, need to wake the fuck up to the reality of shitty QB play and realize he is at the pinnacle of it.
Or Sy
Eli Manning: 25/29 297 yards 2 TD / 0 INT. Manning finished with a 132.3 QB rating, the 9th best of his 15 year career. After 2 weeks of almost-no breathing room in the pocket, the offensive live elevated its play just enough for Manning to go through a read or two consistently. The results speak for themselves. Manning was quick to get the ball out, was on fire throughout every tier of the passing tree, and was as intense as weve seen him in a long time. As Ive said since draft-time, Eli Manning is far from done and when the offensive line can play just OK, he can lead this team to wins. Plain and simple, really
Plain and simple indeed. A sweat lodge and chanting. Koombaya or someone looking at the film and not needing to be a jerk. Tough one. Btw, if he didnt throw open receivers all day including that TD pass to bring them within one score, then check yourself into that sweat lodge and stay there
RE: RE: See? That right there is a perfect example.
The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys opennicks and plax now he wont make the throw period
He also wont take the hit to make the throw either
This is the point. We can all see the oline is inconsistent. We also see receivers open and balls sailing over their heads. It only takes a few missed plays per game to ruin it. Whether it is Deayon not able to make two tackles to end a drive, Eli missing multiple open people for big gains, oline missing a stunt or the coach mismanaging the clock. Add all those screw ups up and you lose the game.
I saw multiple plays where I could see a mobile QB get out of the pocket to make plays.
They have a play maker in Barkley and don't use him enough, same with Beckham. Did you see a screen pass to slow the rush or capitalize on it? Did you see Eli throw into the blitz to the vacated area?
The Giants are going to suck this year and maybe next. There are a lot of pieces of deadwood still on that roster. The line probably needs two more pieces and a few backups.
Be realistic. This is at least a two year rebuild, whether you like it or not. Good news is they will have another top five pick in the draft.
but I think his internal clock that goes off in his head about when to get rid of the ball is all messed up from years of trauma. You can't always see the pass rush coming, and sometimes you have to estimate when it's going to get there.
is a train wreck, but Eli is also finished. I don't know how many more games people need to see to realize he is done. This team never scores 30 points and hasn't done so on any type of consistent basis for years. Eli plays scared. It's hard to blame him for playing scared the way the line has been, but he does not even attempt to throw the ball down the field at this point. He's gun shy. Mentally he has been destroyed and physically age has caught up with him.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys opennicks and plax now he wont make the throw period
He also wont take the hit to make the throw either
This is the point. We can all see the oline is inconsistent. We also see receivers open and balls sailing over their heads. It only takes a few missed plays per game to ruin it. Whether it is Deayon not able to make two tackles to end a drive, Eli missing multiple open people for big gains, oline missing a stunt or the coach mismanaging the clock. Add all those screw ups up and you lose the game.
I saw multiple plays where I could see a mobile QB get out of the pocket to make plays.
They have a play maker in Barkley and don't use him enough, same with Beckham. Did you see a screen pass to slow the rush or capitalize on it? Did you see Eli throw into the blitz to the vacated area?
The Giants are going to suck this year and maybe next. There are a lot of pieces of deadwood still on that roster. The line probably needs two more pieces and a few backups.
Be realistic. This is at least a two year rebuild, whether you like it or not. Good news is they will have another top five pick in the draft.
All the top 5 picks in the world won't do you a bit of difference if you have the wrong people making them.
With all the evidence that it was time to move on, the Giants relieved Reese and McAdoo of their duties. Good move. So what do they do next? They bring back Gettleman and hire Shurmur. And so far, neither one has done anything to inspire any sort of confidence that they know what they're doing.
Gettleman's first order of business? To declare that the scouting department doesn't need major changes, to say that Eli's not done, and to hire some FAs that so far have been utterly disappointing.
They fired Reese - but kept almost all the scouts who worked with him to make those picks, and brought back the guy who had been head of pro personnel for most of his tenure to take the GM spot. And, they state that they're grooming another guy in the org for years to take over for when he's done.
They made almost no change - and the results still suck. Color me surprised. The fact that we'll have another high draft pick next year isn't any consolation.
The Eli lynch mob needs a few weeks of Ryan Fitzpatrick to understand where the real problem lies.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
The Eli lynch mob needs a few weeks of Ryan Fitzpatrick to understand where the real problem lies.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
During this streak of not scoring 30 points. Theyve changed the Front office, Scheme, coaches, offensive line, etc.. and one constant remains. Figure it out.
Ben McAdoo tried to stand up, and give them an out to move on and they threw him out. So here we are.
During this streak of not scoring 30 points. Theyve changed the Front office, Scheme, coaches, offensive line, etc.. and one constant remains. Figure it out.
.
1. Beckham and Shepard have been constants too.
2. The OL is changed doesnt mean its better.
3. Your post makes zero sense.
The Eli lynch mob needs a few weeks of Ryan Fitzpatrick to understand where the real problem lies.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
Brilliant example, except Fitzpatrick managed to score more than 26 points against this same D not too long ago. And they're not exactly running the 80's Hogs out there to block for him.
During this streak of not scoring 30 points. Theyve changed the Front office, Scheme, coaches, offensive line, etc.. and one constant remains. Figure it out.
.
1. Beckham and Shepard have been constants too.
2. The OL is changed doesnt mean its better.
3. Your post makes zero sense.
Makes plenty of sense. You just choose not to see it.
refs blowing calls that paid huge dividends for the other team
we r better then last year, but we still have huge holes in this team
I think there is growing room if we get some guys back and can keep people healthy but it may be too late at this point
.
and shooting themselves in the foot, they are good at that. That Deayon penalty was a killer,
they would have got the ball back with 2:30 left.
Then the Kamira run, as they say, the dagger.
Why did Shurmur keep 3 timeouts in his back pocket at the end of the first half as well. They would have had close to a minute left.
is a train wreck, but Eli is also finished. I don't know how many more games people need to see to realize he is done. This team never scores 30 points and hasn't done so on any type of consistent basis for years. Eli plays scared. It's hard to blame him for playing scared the way the line has been, but he does not even attempt to throw the ball down the field at this point. He's gun shy. Mentally he has been destroyed and physically age has caught up with him.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
Mook you get it. Others can't see it.
Tend to agree. I still think the OL is a bigger problem, but this is a very fair assessment of Eli right now.
The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys opennicks and plax now he wont make the throw period
He also wont take the hit to make the throw either
It's actually scary that the owner, GM, and Coach thought Eli had a lot left in the tank. They were so clearly wrong about that. Physically he has lost a lot, but he is totally shot mentally. They made a bet on Eli still being capable of being a top QB in the off-season and it's pretty damn clear they were wrong about that.
It's amazing that this team has two of the most exciting players in the league on offense and still is by far the most boring offense to watch in the entire league.
that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Eli's ability to move has always been a weakness, but at this point he can't move at all. If you had a guy like Rodgers who actually can move, the line would look a hell of a lot better.
The offensive line sucks, but at this point so does Eli. Stop with the no QB could play behind this OL. A healthy Aaron Rodgers with the weapons Eli has would still put up insane numbers behind this OL. We've seen Rodgers have a horrible offensive line before and he still was a great QB.
By other teams , they see Eli on tape its easy to prepare for the giants
The NFL is 3/4 perception and the perception of the giants offense is they are terrible cant block and Eli is a statue and develop theyre game plan from there .........
that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Some eople are going to look for any reason not to criticize the QB
that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Pittsburgh had one of the worst offensive lines with big ben at QB for a few years. Before they drafted Pouncey and all of those guys. Green Bay has had bad offensive line play at times. Whether or not they have had an oline as bad as the Giants is up for debate, but its not up for debate that they have played seasons with bad offensive line play.
But Big Ben and Rodgers can somewhat hide bad offensive line play with their ability to move and create time with their legs. Eli doesn't do that, at all. The offensive line still wouldnt be any good but if you put a QB who can create time with his legs like Rodgers does they would look a lot better than they do right now.
Eli is a below average QB at this point. He once in a while has a good game, but most games he's at best mediocre.
Rebuild already, we can lose and spend less money and there won't be a bunch of sacred cow debate going on every week. Saquon was a good pick, but it was fucking strategy to pass up on those QBs. We fucked our future as you will soon see. Wasn't Shumer some sort of QB whisperer, maybe he should whisper in Eli's ear to fucking step it up for what he is paid.
get very defensive when you say Eli isn't any good at this point on this board.
It's puzzling to me. Saying that now takes nothing away from how great he has been, but it's not up for debate that he isn't good enough anymore. He's 37. People on this board act like he's 30 with his best years potentially ahead of him if they can improve the offensive line. He is old. It happens. Time to move on
get very defensive when you say Eli isn't any good at this point on this board.
It's puzzling to me. Saying that now takes nothing away from how great he has been, but it's not up for debate that he isn't good enough anymore. He's 37. People on this board act like he's 30 with his best years potentially ahead of him if they can improve the offensive line. He is old. It happens. Time to move on
The problem isnt getting defensive. But when you say Aaron rodgers could do better...
Well of course he would because he is much better than Eli. I dont think guys like Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Flacco, would be bringing us more wins.
Guys like Rodgers and Wilson are rare commodities. Id love to have one of those QBs be our next QB, but thats unrealistic. We see mobile QBs like Gabbert, Ponder, etc get taken high and perform miserably. We see other high picks like RGIII, Wentz, Watson, Luck, Tannehill lose huge chunks of the year due to injuries.
I dont know what the answer is, but we are a long way to finding an answer, IMO.
The level of production that NYG are getting from the QB position right now is not something you can afford to pay $20M+ per year for in todays NFL. And it especially doesnt make sense when you look at age, surrounding level of talent, and state of the franchise.
This is my take on what the fans being grouped together as Eli detractors have been saying. Of course theres some variation around that, and it doesnt help the discussion when people oversimplify it into he stinks or hes toast. Statements like that are bound to get an emotional backlash.
in 2011, maybe Eli's best season as a Giant, the offensive line was anything but good for most of the season. He played great despite poor offensive line play. At age 37, Eli is not capable of doing that anymore.
How anyone can watch the Giants every week for the last 3 seasons and not come to the conclusion that Eli is finished being a good QB is beyond me. How much longer does the offense have to be a train wreck before some of you admit that Eli is also part of the problem?
12 teams this week scored 30 or more points. The Giants haven't done that once in the last 37 games. Not one fucking time. Half of the teams that played this week scored 30 points.
Sure, the offensive line sucks. But this team has weapons. To not score 30 points even once in the last 37 games is fucking pathetic. What more do you guys need to see to realize that the problem is BOTH Eli AND the offensive line. We need a better quarterback and we need a better line. Not just a better line.
37 games is a plenty large enough sample size. This 37 game streak is historically bad. But nope, the QB isn't a problem.
The level of production that NYG are getting from the QB position right now is not something you can afford to pay $20M+ per year for in todays NFL. And it especially doesnt make sense when you look at age, surrounding level of talent, and state of the franchise.
This is my take on what the fans being grouped together as Eli detractors have been saying. Of course theres some variation around that, and it doesnt help the discussion when people oversimplify it into he stinks or hes toast. Statements like that are bound to get an emotional backlash.
And that certainly is a problem. No disagreement.
My argument is simple. It doesnt matter if Eli is good/bad anymore - the OL is going to be our downfall no matter who takes the snaps.
in 2011, maybe Eli's best season as a Giant, the offensive line was anything but good for most of the season. He played great despite poor offensive line play. At age 37, Eli is not capable of doing that anymore.
How anyone can watch the Giants every week for the last 3 seasons and not come to the conclusion that Eli is finished being a good QB is beyond me. How much longer does the offense have to be a train wreck before some of you admit that Eli is also part of the problem?
12 teams this week scored 30 or more points. The Giants haven't done that once in the last 37 games. Not one fucking time. Half of the teams that played this week scored 30 points.
Sure, the offensive line sucks. But this team has weapons. To not score 30 points even once in the last 37 games is fucking pathetic. What more do you guys need to see to realize that the problem is BOTH Eli AND the offensive line. We need a better quarterback and we need a better line. Not just a better line.
37 games is a plenty large enough sample size. This 37 game streak is historically bad. But nope, the QB isn't a problem.
Mook,
the 2011 OL was a very good pass blocking team. We dont run or pass block.
We can replace Eli for all I care. With this unit we have blocking, we are a top 10 draft picking team every year.
was a clown in many ways and a lot of people wanted to blame the struggles of the offense on him, but it wasn't on him. The offensive line play and the QB's play has been complete shit since McAdoo got the head coaching job.
The GM and Owner believed that Eli had a couple more at least solid years left in his tank.
That should scare the hell out of any Giants fan. Those 2 are the ones running this franchise right now and they clearly were wrong about Eli. He doesn't have anything left in the tank. Spare me what he did last week against the Texans. That was called a fluke.
they were average, and they couldn't run block for shit.
Eli stood on his head that year. The offensive line was gettign their asses kicked by the 49ers in the NFC title game and Eli was standing in there slinging it all over the field.
Eli Manning is a below average QB at this point in his career. And that is probably being kind. How many years worth of futility on offense will it take for people to realize it's him and the OL, not just the OL
He's not even close to that QB anymore. Watch how he handles that pass rush. It's night and day. He doesn't have that kind of game in him anymore, he's played behind a bad line too long.
Easier said than done. There aren't enough OL to go around and the unit was in such shambles last year that it required a multiple year rebuild. The organization made a massive mistake in the early part of this decade by not proactively addressing an aging unit and then doubled down on that mistake the last 5 years with shitty scouting compounded by desperation. They are not going to be a top unit this year or even next. The Eli criticisms come when people act like he can get it done behind an average to mediocre line, I don't think he can. I think he needs to be playing behind the Eagles or Chiefs line to succeed, we aren't even close to there and won't be any time soon.
1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
The time to fix the offensive line was in the offseason. Instead, management opted to spend a #2 pick on a back and pay a WR $65M guaranteed before the OL was fixed.
Easier said than done. There aren't enough OL to go around and the unit was in such shambles last year that it required a multiple year rebuild. The organization made a massive mistake in the early part of this decade by not proactively addressing an aging unit and then doubled down on that mistake the last 5 years with shitty scouting compounded by desperation. They are not going to be a top unit this year or even next. The Eli criticisms come when people act like he can get it done behind an average to mediocre line, I don't think he can. I think he needs to be playing behind the Eagles or Chiefs line to succeed, we aren't even close to there and won't be any time soon.
You're absolutely right. It's just a travesty that this hasn't been done for years.
I realize it won't get done this year or next (probably), but it should have been noticed for years before.
I don't think Eli needs an elite line, just a consistent line (which isn't there).
1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
I don't want a rehash of David Carr/Ryan Leaf, where the line sucks and the QB gets destroyed. We won it with Coughlin's group by fixing the line. We need to do that again. Trade down if you have to, but fix the line.
no matter which side of the fence you stand on, Eli will be 38 in a few months. I'd rather make the decision to move on a year earlier rather than later.
no matter which side of the fence you stand on, Eli will be 38 in a few months. I'd rather make the decision to move on a year earlier rather than later.
The move was darnold. And I really, really like Barkley as a player.
no matter which side of the fence you stand on, Eli will be 38 in a few months. I'd rather make the decision to move on a year earlier rather than later.
was a clown in many ways and a lot of people wanted to blame the struggles of the offense on him, but it wasn't on him. The offensive line play and the QB's play has been complete shit since McAdoo got the head coaching job.
The GM and Owner believed that Eli had a couple more at least solid years left in his tank.
That should scare the hell out of any Giants fan. Those 2 are the ones running this franchise right now and they clearly were wrong about Eli. He doesn't have anything left in the tank. Spare me what he did last week against the Texans. That was called a fluke.
Back with your usual prescription that someone needs to be fired. Let's run down the list: Fewell, Killdrive, Coughlin, McAdoo, Reese . . .? Wow, you have quite a track record. What scares me is that there are Giant fans like you with your succession of quick fixes. Had enough of your ilk back in the 60's and 70's- and we are getting much the same results now as then. So, who do you want to fire after Eli because this will be the same shitshow.
every day of the week, and it rains on Monday, on Tuesday, on Wednesday, and on Thursday, it's not "hearing footsteps" to decide Friday morning move Friday's event indoors even if it eventually clears up later in the day.
When Eli is staring down a pass rush on seemingly every drop back from all sides, he's not then hearing footsteps when he decides to get rid of the ball quickly or go to his first read on a play where the line actually maintained a pocket.
It would be foolish of Eli to have the memory of a goldfish and assume that the line is going to hold up for him to go through all his reads on any given play.
1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
I don't want a rehash of David Carr/Ryan Leaf, where the line sucks and the QB gets destroyed.
So don't play the future QB. Just like the Giants didnt play a rookie QB and wouldn't have played him at all if Kurt Warner wasnt a shell shocked zombie.
that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Pittsburgh had one of the worst offensive lines with big ben at QB for a few years. Before they drafted Pouncey and all of those guys. Green Bay has had bad offensive line play at times. Whether or not they have had an oline as bad as the Giants is up for debate, but its not up for debate that they have played seasons with bad offensive line play.
But Big Ben and Rodgers can somewhat hide bad offensive line play with their ability to move and create time with their legs. Eli doesn't do that, at all. The offensive line still wouldnt be any good but if you put a QB who can create time with his legs like Rodgers does they would look a lot better than they do right now.
Eli is a below average QB at this point. He once in a while has a good game, but most games he's at best mediocre.
I am not defending Eli but when was the last time either of these 2 QBs won a SB. By the way Ben Rothlisberger has had a great supporting cast for the last 5 years and has has not gotten to the big game.
10-26
the Oline
the Play calling
Giving up on the run game
D isn't making plays at important moments
refs blowing calls that paid huge dividends for the other team
we r better then last year, but we still have huge holes in this team
I think there is growing room if we get some guys back and can keep people healthy but it may be too late at this point
the Oline
the Play calling
Giving up on the run game
D isn't making plays at important moments
refs blowing calls that paid huge dividends for the other team
we r better then last year, but we still have huge holes in this team
I think there is growing room if we get some guys back and can keep people healthy but it may be too late at this point
This 👆💯
No offense, but if Eli is shook to the point we're he's not playing as good as he should be, as good as we need, he has to go.
This team has issues on offense. Eli may be a functional QB but he most certainly is rapidly declining and his limitations are becoming so exacerbated that his tremendous mental acuities and intelligence cant overcome. Theres no physical dynamism in his toolkit. The deep throws are erratic even when made.
I dont know what we do the rest of the year but next offseason is huge because I think this team needs a multi year retool of which QB is just one of about five or six of glaring need and depth.
Jesus fucking Christ. This place is embarrassing after a loss.
Well only 1 of those is accurate so...
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Hes getting hit a lot. And DL guys love playing vs Eli who is essentially a statue. He lies down sometimes when he cant step up. I think he is known as an easy mark.
No offense, but if Eli is shook to the point we're he's not playing as good as he should be, as good as we need, he has to go.
+1 ...I didn't give up on him at any time till the end of last year and now..
Jesus fucking Christ. This place is embarrassing after a loss.
A Saints player said it, so don't blame us. Unless Eli banged his girl, I see no reason for him to make that up.
Why?
Because we can't give him enough time.
Romo maybe a cow turd forever, but he spoke volumes tonight about our issue and he is spot on. Make the Giants have to put together 10 + play drives and drive the length of the field. To do this you have to have no penalties, no negative plays and a couple of things that just go in your favor. Very very low percentage of scoring when you have to play this way. Too much to chance of something going wrong when you don't get yardage in large chunks and the teams we play see it and are winning on those odds alone.
Our opponents chirped us about McAdoo back in 2016, it proved right. He's not saying shit after a win just to say it.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
When you continually deflect any blame from Eli, you lose credibility.
Yes he can still play, but he has not been the solution for this team for a while now. Chasing past glory is a good way to put a team in the doldrums
Jesus fucking Christ. This place is embarrassing after a loss.
I saw a QB play really marginal and mediocre football today. Did a poor job of running the offense. We saw Dr. Jekyll last Sunday. We got Mr. Hyde today.
You want to blame Shurmur? Go ahead. But the QB was responsible for a lot of easy reads by the defense, soft decision making, missed throws.
????
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
Because we've already killed the OL and beaten the corpse into a bloody corpse. Eli isn't good for us, hasn't been for a while now. He deserves some heat.
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Its impossible to get first downs cause we dont have WRs running routes pst the marker. Thats coaching.
Dude, come on, we get it. You will never fault him for anything. Why even comment on anything here that is Eli related when everyone and their mother know exactly what your answer will be? It's never his fault, never ever ever ever ever. He's cooked dude, just watch, well don't actually you won't see anything but a halo over his head and evil souls surrounding him like his OL just opened the Ark of the Covenant and he's helpless to do anything close his eyes or risk being melted into goo.
I get it too. When we lose, its all on him and we cant comment on other players on the team.
Jesus Christ. Show me one time today I said were he played even good. Just show it.
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Hes getting hit a lot. And DL guys love playing vs Eli who is essentially a statue. He lies down sometimes when he cant step up. I think he is known as an easy mark.
No offense, but if Eli is shook to the point we're he's not playing as good as he should be, as good as we need, he has to go.
This very much. People questioning Shurmur not calling plays to go downfield dont know that he isnt. Eli, while maybe lacking faith in his OL, seems very quick to check out of letting the play develop downfield. Weird thing is last week he wasnt.
One thing I think Eli has been bad about is not looking to Beckham more. He used to put it up for Plax, Nicks and others even if it was a 50/50 ball in order to let those guys make a play.
If nothing else, it seems to me that Eli lacks that killer instinct he once had.
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That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
no romo didnt say that. romo said the giants arent playing well on the interior to allow eli to step up. he actually said solder was a good addition, but interior has to play better, to much pressure in his face. again, i think eli isnt part of the solution as he cant escape, however, i see other QBs with all fuckin day to throw...when is the last time you aid, holy shit eli has all day to scan the field lol...i literally cannot remmeber the last time eli had enough time to take a nap, meanwhile i see it regularly with some OLs
Its called David Carr syndrome- it goes away for a game here and there-but the end result is a qb that is no longer comfortable- and is easy to scheme against
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That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
And I said Eli missed a few throws about 75 times already. lol. The Always Eli is a much, much, muuch bigger crowd than the never Eli's.
Romo ripped the Giants OL and play calling all game. But that must have been your selective hearing.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
Hes making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now cant make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
the Oline
the Play calling
Giving up on the run game
D isn't making plays at important moments
refs blowing calls that paid huge dividends for the other team
we r better then last year, but we still have huge holes in this team
I think there is growing room if we get some guys back and can keep people healthy but it may be too late at this point
***And another year ELi gets older. His arm isn't going to get stronger next year. ANother year we won't be able to maximze OBJ and SB.
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In comment 14100356 dep026 said:
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That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
no romo didnt say that. romo said the giants arent playing well on the interior to allow eli to step up. he actually said solder was a good addition, but interior has to play better, to much pressure in his face. again, i think eli isnt part of the solution as he cant escape, however, i see other QBs with all fuckin day to throw...when is the last time you aid, holy shit eli has all day to scan the field lol...i literally cannot remmeber the last time eli had enough time to take a nap, meanwhile i see it regularly with some OLs
The OL played well in the 1st half. They had a bad third quarter for sure. Saints went up the gut on some gap blitzing in the third.
Romo was pretty fair all game. I dont get the hate some had for him in the game thread.
And didnt Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
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In comment 14100374 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 14100356 dep026 said:
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That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
no romo didnt say that. romo said the giants arent playing well on the interior to allow eli to step up. he actually said solder was a good addition, but interior has to play better, to much pressure in his face. again, i think eli isnt part of the solution as he cant escape, however, i see other QBs with all fuckin day to throw...when is the last time you aid, holy shit eli has all day to scan the field lol...i literally cannot remmeber the last time eli had enough time to take a nap, meanwhile i see it regularly with some OLs
The OL played well in the 1st half. They had a bad third quarter for sure. Saints went up the gut on some gap blitzing in the third.
Romo was pretty fair all game. I dont get the hate
some had for him in the game thread.
i love romo as a commentator. he knows the game and is pretty fair, i think he knows eli is on decline and understands he needs a pretty clean pocket and in key spots, he really doesnt get it...
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show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
Hes making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now cant make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
You keep concentrating on getting rid of Eli. Fine. Lets get rid of him. Draft a rookie QB and hope for the best.
Meanwhile our number 2 pick, who is a FANTASTIC player, has 44 carries for 121 yards (less than 3 YPC btw) outside two runs where he got it all by himself.
How you fixing that?
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In comment 14100374 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 14100356 dep026 said:
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That its impossible to look downfield when your getting hit as quickly as Eli was.
So was he wrong too. If you want to throw routes downfield. You gotta block for him to throw it.
Romo himself said Eli had ample time today with the exception of the third quarter drives and the OL was playing well the 1st half when Eli made some really bad throws and Giants sputtered after the 1st Drive.
Stop being so selective to reinforce your never Eli narrative.
no romo didnt say that. romo said the giants arent playing well on the interior to allow eli to step up. he actually said solder was a good addition, but interior has to play better, to much pressure in his face. again, i think eli isnt part of the solution as he cant escape, however, i see other QBs with all fuckin day to throw...when is the last time you aid, holy shit eli has all day to scan the field lol...i literally cannot remmeber the last time eli had enough time to take a nap, meanwhile i see it regularly with some OLs
The OL played well in the 1st half. They had a bad third quarter for sure. Saints went up the gut on some gap blitzing in the third.
Romo was pretty fair all game. I dont get the hate some had for him in the game thread.
It was definitely the middle pressure that they got that really hurt us offensively
And didnt Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
agreed. eli gets a ton of shit.
he isnt a part of the solution tho and the giants should move on in 19 or 20 the latest. that being said he does get ALOT of heat...we know he is slow and cant escape, so the push against our interior is killer...OL just isnt good, i mean we see it all game. even barkley gets hit in backfield often.
Get rid of Eli, even the Russell Wilon's of the world will struggle with that.
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In comment 14100373 dep026 said:
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show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
Hes making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now cant make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
You keep concentrating on getting rid of Eli. Fine. Lets get rid of him. Draft a rookie QB and hope for the best.
Meanwhile our number 2 pick, who is a FANTASTIC player, has 44 carries for 121 yards (less than 3 YPC btw) outside two runs where he got it all by himself.
How you fixing that?
Finding a RT, C/G types who are big but mobile.
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its Eli
the Oline
the Play calling
Giving up on the run game
D isn't making plays at important moments
refs blowing calls that paid huge dividends for the other team
we r better then last year, but we still have huge holes in this team
I think there is growing room if we get some guys back and can keep people healthy but it may be too late at this point
This 👆💯
Uhhh no.... not this ⬆️.
You cant expect the D to play better than it has. the offense has been dead for multiple reasons...including Eli. This is the second game that Eli has looked like check down Charlie. People who say its only the O- Line are just not watching everything. Eli is looking for safety first before all else.Defenses know it too! They wont stop pressuring him until he shows the ability or at least the effort of attempting to make them pay for it. Hes not even making the correct reads consistently.
Finding a RT, C/G types who are big but mobile.
We have been looking to do that for the last 7 years. Hasnt worked.
And didnt Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
A struggling Colts offense just hung 31 on that Texans D in regulation. Eli had a good game last week, there's no denying that. But the bad games are more consistent. This was a game where the OL wasn't great, but didn't kill him and we faced a bad defense. No consistency on offense, no points. This has been going on forever and he's the QB.
Get rid of Eli, even the Russell Wilon's of the world will struggle with that.
Im expecting better coaching and scheming which can be limited with what you have to work with. This scouting group better start hitting on OL picks these next couple years. Solder is a temporary fit for a couple seasons. Right now theres three starting spots up for grabs and a couple reserve spots still that need good depth.
Im already moving to look to the future. I love this team but when I watch Eli play QB I feel like have to take a Viagra or Cialis to believe in this team or winning.
Eli is not without blame but it seems as though the game plan is to protect the football first and foremost. Eli only has 1 interception this year. He is being very cautious with his passing. Again, lots of check downs, and short passes.
I am hoping Shurmur encourages Eli to take more shots downfield. Even if you don't connect in a pass you can loosen up the defense or draw a PI.
Too much WCO slants and hooks BS. Where was the PA rollout that Shermer uses one game, then forgets the next?
youre out of your mind if you dont think barkley is generational. he is already thru 4 games one of the most talented backs in football. his ability to maintain balance and accelerate is like no other back. if we had a decent OL, this kid would have 200 yards from scrimmage on a few occasions. barkley is probably the only reason to tune into giants games as it currently stands
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Finding a RT, C/G types who are big but mobile.
We have been looking to do that for the last 7 years. Hasnt worked.
Theyve fired many of those decision makers. The NFL despite its not for long pun and identity, generally requires 2-3 years for regimes to really build and infuse their identity in football teams in the talent, discipline, schemes, etc.
2020 will be the make or break year for Gettleman and Shurmur.
Eli is actually throwing the ball extremely well but there are going to be ups and downs with this new team
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In comment 14100373 dep026 said:
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show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
Hes making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now cant make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
You keep concentrating on getting rid of Eli. Fine. Lets get rid of him. Draft a rookie QB and hope for the best.
Meanwhile our number 2 pick, who is a FANTASTIC player, has 44 carries for 121 yards (less than 3 YPC btw) outside two runs where he got it all by himself.
How you fixing that?
It's Eli's fault the oline can't open up a running lane.
Amen, brother. The folks on this board were convinced SB was a mix of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Ladanian Tomlinson, but better.. You can't be a generational talent when there are 5 guys in the league just as good as you or better... at least five... passing on a QB was a mistake we will regret for a while.
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Against Watt and co but hes cooked this week? Sy and others have repeatedly said this Oline isnt much better so why are some claiming that Eli is the one who is cooked? Odd logic here.
And didnt Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
agreed. eli gets a ton of shit.
he isnt a part of the solution tho and the giants should move on in 19 or 20 the latest. that being said he does get ALOT of heat...we know he is slow and cant escape, so the push against our interior is killer...OL just isnt good, i mean we see it all game. even barkley gets hit in backfield often.
I think that's always been the plan to move on by 2020. Shore up the O-Line in a loaded O-Lineman draft next draft and grab the QB in 20
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is a fair summation of our offense.
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This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
exactly. there is so much that goes into QBn in todays NFL, not every QB has great escapability....the OL especially on Interior has been poor. is pretty simple, give eli time he can throw down field, pressure in elis face, check down champs
Eli is actually throwing the ball extremely well but there are going to be ups and downs with this new team
I will agree with you 100% when it comes to certain QBs like Dak for example. However, some young QBs are simply better. The moment Mayfield came into the game last week, the Browns instantly became better than this Giants team.
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
I agree that at times it does seem like Eli is shell shocked from all the hits he's taken. But it's also true that he frequently doesn't have enough time, or is throwing against six or seven defenders.
The question is whether the OL can be fixed while Eli is still productive. My guess is no. The OL likely won't be full fixed until 2020. I don't see Eli lasting that long, especially given the beatings he's taking.
Payton does that sneaky BS he loves doing with the fake punt and you start getting that Uh Oh feeling. Saints were on their heels and Brees wasnt playing well, but the momentum was turning. Then that putrid non horse collar call happens.
Eli drives them down again but Rhett Ellison cant hang on to that TD pass. He has to come down with that. Eli wasnt perfect but jeez, this reactionary BS is unbelievable
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
Dep, I never said FIRST. I said MUST. Reading comprehension brother. Yes, we have set ourselves up for failure because our OL is so bad that our QB MUST be able to avoid the first pass rusher. This is not necessarily a knock on Eli. IF anything, it shows how fucked up our front office has been for years. We lets the OL get progressively worse since 2011 KNOWING that our QB has a few limitations and that having an average OL was critical to his ability to perform.
Remember Eli's years with reliable TEs who could block, catch and were athletic? They were his nice warm blanket.
He's not willing to get murdered at this point to (1) throw a pass to a spot and (2) hang in only to get smashed into the turf. He's not indestructible. And he's not a young guy anymore. I don't really blame him at this point. But he's not moving the needle and his ability to make exceptional throws under duress is very limited at this point.
It's a terrible combination of a new coach (who inspires absolutely NO confidence), new offensive line, new offensive scheme, horrific previous seasons with the pressure to succeed immediately in NY, and excellent skill players who need the ball to make a difference but aren't positioned to be successful.
This is the perfect storm of futility.
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On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
Dep, I really do not care if he completed a load of passes within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. Yes, he needed to get the ball down field more. His weak OL has fucked with his mind and he simply cannot stand in there and wait for the longer plays to develop even when he does have the time. You are also correct in that the play calling has often not made sense either. What you and I will never know is whether the plays we think were stupid are the ones sent in from the sideline or ones that Eli checked to at the line. I suppose it was probably a combination of the two.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
Certain match ups will give the Giants a world of trouble this season. It would be true with any of these QBs. I think fans too often need a punching bag and the only one left is Eli Manning. I dont think fans realize how much hes helping this team right now and that is very sad to witness.
I still think they should have taken a QB.
Remember Eli's years with reliable TEs who could block, catch and were athletic? They were his nice warm blanket.
Is Ellison a step down from that perspective to Boss/Ballard? He's not the same QB, for the some of the reasons highlighted in the rest of your post.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys opennicks and plax now he wont make the throw period
He also wont take the hit to make the throw either
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In comment 14100328 dep026 said:
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Its impossible to get first downs cause we dont have WRs running routes pst the marker. Thats coaching.
Dude, come on, we get it. You will never fault him for anything. Why even comment on anything here that is Eli related when everyone and their mother know exactly what your answer will be? It's never his fault, never ever ever ever ever. He's cooked dude, just watch, well don't actually you won't see anything but a halo over his head and evil souls surrounding him like his OL just opened the Ark of the Covenant and he's helpless to do anything close his eyes or risk being melted into goo.
I get it too. When we lose, its all on him and we cant comment on other players on the team.
Jesus Christ. Show me one time today I said were he played even good. Just show it.
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On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
Yeah he completed alot of passes all check downs underneath throws the defense just gives him.. Wake me up when he throws downfield
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1. The OL still sucks. We did not do enough this off season to fix it.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is a fair summation of our offense.
+2.
OH don't play all or nothing, you defend him constantly, he's a part of the problem and is the major one and has been for years. It's a swirl of shit and he's the main one but you won't say it and you'll run to his defense.
Yep, I wasnt here all offseason saying the Giants should draft his replacement and replace Eli when we were out of playoff contention.
For me, this is about Eli anymore. He is done probabyl after this year and I have been saying this for months. But replacing him is not guaranteeing success. In fact, it can get worse. We are among the leagues worst at 2 things. Blocking and rushing the passer. I dont give a shit who is our QB now. We have been overpaying for players for years trying to fix this mess. And in the end despite giving out huge contracts to OV, OBJ, Solder, Snacks, JJ - we still suck. And no I am not saying that they suck, cause some of they are very, very good players- but its not leading to wins.
You want to win, you have to totally gut the roster. And start over. We are using band aids to try to stop floods.
I was there last year but I really think it's beyond that. There's more and more evidence that he isn't seeing or pulling the trigger on plays that can be made. He's exaggerating the existing problems.
ONE WEEK OUT OF FUCKING FOUR! You ok with 25%? He didn't throw anyone open, he's not that guy anymore, but you and dep can get in a sweat lodge and chant all you want and hope some ghosts come to his aid but he's fucking cooked. Look at his W-L record for 5 years and the talent he's had and then come back and trumpet more shit about him. I love the guy, he gutted us to two SB wins but he's shot and you and his roadies or groupies or whatever you people are, need to wake the fuck up to the reality of shitty QB play and realize he is at the pinnacle of it.
Or Sy
Eli Manning: 25/29 297 yards 2 TD / 0 INT. Manning finished with a 132.3 QB rating, the 9th best of his 15 year career. After 2 weeks of almost-no breathing room in the pocket, the offensive live elevated its play just enough for Manning to go through a read or two consistently. The results speak for themselves. Manning was quick to get the ball out, was on fire throughout every tier of the passing tree, and was as intense as weve seen him in a long time. As Ive said since draft-time, Eli Manning is far from done and when the offensive line can play just OK, he can lead this team to wins. Plain and simple, really
Plain and simple indeed. A sweat lodge and chanting. Koombaya or someone looking at the film and not needing to be a jerk. Tough one. Btw, if he didnt throw open receivers all day including that TD pass to bring them within one score, then check yourself into that sweat lodge and stay there
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The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys opennicks and plax now he wont make the throw period
He also wont take the hit to make the throw either
This is the point. We can all see the oline is inconsistent. We also see receivers open and balls sailing over their heads. It only takes a few missed plays per game to ruin it. Whether it is Deayon not able to make two tackles to end a drive, Eli missing multiple open people for big gains, oline missing a stunt or the coach mismanaging the clock. Add all those screw ups up and you lose the game.
I saw multiple plays where I could see a mobile QB get out of the pocket to make plays.
They have a play maker in Barkley and don't use him enough, same with Beckham. Did you see a screen pass to slow the rush or capitalize on it? Did you see Eli throw into the blitz to the vacated area?
The Giants are going to suck this year and maybe next. There are a lot of pieces of deadwood still on that roster. The line probably needs two more pieces and a few backups.
Be realistic. This is at least a two year rebuild, whether you like it or not. Good news is they will have another top five pick in the draft.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
Mook you get it. Others can't see it.
Dupe troll says what?
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In comment 14100507 B in ALB said:
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The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys opennicks and plax now he wont make the throw period
He also wont take the hit to make the throw either
This is the point. We can all see the oline is inconsistent. We also see receivers open and balls sailing over their heads. It only takes a few missed plays per game to ruin it. Whether it is Deayon not able to make two tackles to end a drive, Eli missing multiple open people for big gains, oline missing a stunt or the coach mismanaging the clock. Add all those screw ups up and you lose the game.
I saw multiple plays where I could see a mobile QB get out of the pocket to make plays.
They have a play maker in Barkley and don't use him enough, same with Beckham. Did you see a screen pass to slow the rush or capitalize on it? Did you see Eli throw into the blitz to the vacated area?
The Giants are going to suck this year and maybe next. There are a lot of pieces of deadwood still on that roster. The line probably needs two more pieces and a few backups.
Be realistic. This is at least a two year rebuild, whether you like it or not. Good news is they will have another top five pick in the draft.
All the top 5 picks in the world won't do you a bit of difference if you have the wrong people making them.
With all the evidence that it was time to move on, the Giants relieved Reese and McAdoo of their duties. Good move. So what do they do next? They bring back Gettleman and hire Shurmur. And so far, neither one has done anything to inspire any sort of confidence that they know what they're doing.
Gettleman's first order of business? To declare that the scouting department doesn't need major changes, to say that Eli's not done, and to hire some FAs that so far have been utterly disappointing.
They fired Reese - but kept almost all the scouts who worked with him to make those picks, and brought back the guy who had been head of pro personnel for most of his tenure to take the GM spot. And, they state that they're grooming another guy in the org for years to take over for when he's done.
They made almost no change - and the results still suck. Color me surprised. The fact that we'll have another high draft pick next year isn't any consolation.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
Boom! Too true.
Ben McAdoo tried to stand up, and give them an out to move on and they threw him out. So here we are.
Well at least we got SB and Hernandez. So lets keep picking up pieces for the next restructuring. One of the years we will do it right...
.
1. Beckham and Shepard have been constants too.
2. The OL is changed doesnt mean its better.
3. Your post makes zero sense.
You guys say QB is the problem and that anyone who argues otherwise is wearing blue-colored glasses.
Take Eli out. Start Lauletta. Start Vick in his prime. Start fucking Rodgers for all I care. No QB is getting it done behind that line. No RB, not even one touched by the hand of god is getting it done behind that line. They are shit. They have been shit for years. And they will remain shit for the foreseeable future.
And as long as that line is shit this team will be shit. Sorry. End of story. The Eli done argument is completely moot. Switch QBs all you want but you're clinging to straws. Gimme five men who can block. The real problem is we have maybe, MAYBE!!!!, two.
Brilliant example, except Fitzpatrick managed to score more than 26 points against this same D not too long ago. And they're not exactly running the 80's Hogs out there to block for him.
"It can be worse" isn't a valid argument. What they're getting isn't good enough.
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During this streak of not scoring 30 points. Theyve changed the Front office, Scheme, coaches, offensive line, etc.. and one constant remains. Figure it out.
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1. Beckham and Shepard have been constants too.
2. The OL is changed doesnt mean its better.
3. Your post makes zero sense.
Makes plenty of sense. You just choose not to see it.
the Oline
the Play calling
Giving up on the run game
D isn't making plays at important moments
refs blowing calls that paid huge dividends for the other team
we r better then last year, but we still have huge holes in this team
I think there is growing room if we get some guys back and can keep people healthy but it may be too late at this point
and shooting themselves in the foot, they are good at that. That Deayon penalty was a killer,
they would have got the ball back with 2:30 left.
Then the Kamira run, as they say, the dagger.
Why did Shurmur keep 3 timeouts in his back pocket at the end of the first half as well. They would have had close to a minute left.
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The Eli lynch mob needs a few weeks of Ryan Fitzpatrick to understand where the real problem lies.
"It can be worse" isn't a valid argument. What they're getting isn't good enough.
Ryan Fitzpatrick lit up this Saints 'D' for 48 points this year, just saying.
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is a train wreck, but Eli is also finished. I don't know how many more games people need to see to realize he is done. This team never scores 30 points and hasn't done so on any type of consistent basis for years. Eli plays scared. It's hard to blame him for playing scared the way the line has been, but he does not even attempt to throw the ball down the field at this point. He's gun shy. Mentally he has been destroyed and physically age has caught up with him.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
Mook you get it. Others can't see it.
Tend to agree. I still think the OL is a bigger problem, but this is a very fair assessment of Eli right now.
wtf?
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The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys opennicks and plax now he wont make the throw period
He also wont take the hit to make the throw either
It's actually scary that the owner, GM, and Coach thought Eli had a lot left in the tank. They were so clearly wrong about that. Physically he has lost a lot, but he is totally shot mentally. They made a bet on Eli still being capable of being a top QB in the off-season and it's pretty damn clear they were wrong about that.
It's amazing that this team has two of the most exciting players in the league on offense and still is by far the most boring offense to watch in the entire league.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Eli's ability to move has always been a weakness, but at this point he can't move at all. If you had a guy like Rodgers who actually can move, the line would look a hell of a lot better.
The offensive line sucks, but at this point so does Eli. Stop with the no QB could play behind this OL. A healthy Aaron Rodgers with the weapons Eli has would still put up insane numbers behind this OL. We've seen Rodgers have a horrible offensive line before and he still was a great QB.
The NFL is 3/4 perception and the perception of the giants offense is they are terrible cant block and Eli is a statue and develop theyre game plan from there .........
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
There's a reasonable amount of blame to assign to Eli, but any suggestion of that sets people's hair on fire.
I still think they should have taken a QB.
I was also a "draft a QB" guy, but Barkley is a special talent. We'll find a QB solution, draft some OL and pass rushers and we will improve.
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that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Pittsburgh had one of the worst offensive lines with big ben at QB for a few years. Before they drafted Pouncey and all of those guys. Green Bay has had bad offensive line play at times. Whether or not they have had an oline as bad as the Giants is up for debate, but its not up for debate that they have played seasons with bad offensive line play.
But Big Ben and Rodgers can somewhat hide bad offensive line play with their ability to move and create time with their legs. Eli doesn't do that, at all. The offensive line still wouldnt be any good but if you put a QB who can create time with his legs like Rodgers does they would look a lot better than they do right now.
Eli is a below average QB at this point. He once in a while has a good game, but most games he's at best mediocre.
+
It's puzzling to me. Saying that now takes nothing away from how great he has been, but it's not up for debate that he isn't good enough anymore. He's 37. People on this board act like he's 30 with his best years potentially ahead of him if they can improve the offensive line. He is old. It happens. Time to move on
It's puzzling to me. Saying that now takes nothing away from how great he has been, but it's not up for debate that he isn't good enough anymore. He's 37. People on this board act like he's 30 with his best years potentially ahead of him if they can improve the offensive line. He is old. It happens. Time to move on
The problem isnt getting defensive. But when you say Aaron rodgers could do better...
Well of course he would because he is much better than Eli. I dont think guys like Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Flacco, would be bringing us more wins.
Guys like Rodgers and Wilson are rare commodities. Id love to have one of those QBs be our next QB, but thats unrealistic. We see mobile QBs like Gabbert, Ponder, etc get taken high and perform miserably. We see other high picks like RGIII, Wentz, Watson, Luck, Tannehill lose huge chunks of the year due to injuries.
I dont know what the answer is, but we are a long way to finding an answer, IMO.
The level of production that NYG are getting from the QB position right now is not something you can afford to pay $20M+ per year for in todays NFL. And it especially doesnt make sense when you look at age, surrounding level of talent, and state of the franchise.
This is my take on what the fans being grouped together as Eli detractors have been saying. Of course theres some variation around that, and it doesnt help the discussion when people oversimplify it into he stinks or hes toast. Statements like that are bound to get an emotional backlash.
How anyone can watch the Giants every week for the last 3 seasons and not come to the conclusion that Eli is finished being a good QB is beyond me. How much longer does the offense have to be a train wreck before some of you admit that Eli is also part of the problem?
12 teams this week scored 30 or more points. The Giants haven't done that once in the last 37 games. Not one fucking time. Half of the teams that played this week scored 30 points.
Sure, the offensive line sucks. But this team has weapons. To not score 30 points even once in the last 37 games is fucking pathetic. What more do you guys need to see to realize that the problem is BOTH Eli AND the offensive line. We need a better quarterback and we need a better line. Not just a better line.
37 games is a plenty large enough sample size. This 37 game streak is historically bad. But nope, the QB isn't a problem.
The level of production that NYG are getting from the QB position right now is not something you can afford to pay $20M+ per year for in todays NFL. And it especially doesnt make sense when you look at age, surrounding level of talent, and state of the franchise.
This is my take on what the fans being grouped together as Eli detractors have been saying. Of course theres some variation around that, and it doesnt help the discussion when people oversimplify it into he stinks or hes toast. Statements like that are bound to get an emotional backlash.
And that certainly is a problem. No disagreement.
My argument is simple. It doesnt matter if Eli is good/bad anymore - the OL is going to be our downfall no matter who takes the snaps.
How anyone can watch the Giants every week for the last 3 seasons and not come to the conclusion that Eli is finished being a good QB is beyond me. How much longer does the offense have to be a train wreck before some of you admit that Eli is also part of the problem?
12 teams this week scored 30 or more points. The Giants haven't done that once in the last 37 games. Not one fucking time. Half of the teams that played this week scored 30 points.
Sure, the offensive line sucks. But this team has weapons. To not score 30 points even once in the last 37 games is fucking pathetic. What more do you guys need to see to realize that the problem is BOTH Eli AND the offensive line. We need a better quarterback and we need a better line. Not just a better line.
37 games is a plenty large enough sample size. This 37 game streak is historically bad. But nope, the QB isn't a problem.
Mook,
the 2011 OL was a very good pass blocking team. We dont run or pass block.
We can replace Eli for all I care. With this unit we have blocking, we are a top 10 draft picking team every year.
The GM and Owner believed that Eli had a couple more at least solid years left in his tank.
That should scare the hell out of any Giants fan. Those 2 are the ones running this franchise right now and they clearly were wrong about Eli. He doesn't have anything left in the tank. Spare me what he did last week against the Texans. That was called a fluke.
Eli stood on his head that year. The offensive line was gettign their asses kicked by the 49ers in the NFC title game and Eli was standing in there slinging it all over the field.
Eli Manning is a below average QB at this point in his career. And that is probably being kind. How many years worth of futility on offense will it take for people to realize it's him and the OL, not just the OL
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
The time to fix the offensive line was in the offseason. Instead, management opted to spend a #2 pick on a back and pay a WR $65M guaranteed before the OL was fixed.
You're absolutely right. It's just a travesty that this hasn't been done for years.
I realize it won't get done this year or next (probably), but it should have been noticed for years before.
I don't think Eli needs an elite line, just a consistent line (which isn't there).
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
Never said it was an easy thing to do. But its a lot more difficult to do when your basically only buy a lottery ticket to find one.
It isn't. It's really hard. That's why punting away the opportunity they just had to get one was such an enormous error.
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1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
I don't want a rehash of David Carr/Ryan Leaf, where the line sucks and the QB gets destroyed. We won it with Coughlin's group by fixing the line. We need to do that again. Trade down if you have to, but fix the line.
The move was darnold. And I really, really like Barkley as a player.
Mara is too tied to Eli
2016 is over...
The GM and Owner believed that Eli had a couple more at least solid years left in his tank.
That should scare the hell out of any Giants fan. Those 2 are the ones running this franchise right now and they clearly were wrong about Eli. He doesn't have anything left in the tank. Spare me what he did last week against the Texans. That was called a fluke.
When Eli is staring down a pass rush on seemingly every drop back from all sides, he's not then hearing footsteps when he decides to get rid of the ball quickly or go to his first read on a play where the line actually maintained a pocket.
It would be foolish of Eli to have the memory of a goldfish and assume that the line is going to hold up for him to go through all his reads on any given play.
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In comment 14101702 TheEvilLurker said:
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1) Fix the freaking line! If your running back can't even get close to 3 yds a carry, you have not fixed 1.
2) If after 1 is done and cannot increase yds per play, then change the QB. Eli may be the problem, but not the biggest problem.
In essence...Fix the freaking line!
Ok, so fix the line in the next couple seasons, then see if Eli is good enough, and then change the QB.
So we'll wait until he's 2 years older, at the age of 39, and expect him to turn the clock back then.
It's time to move on from Eli NOW. Not after they fix the line to see if he's capable again. Now.
The first thing thast needs to be done is to find a quarterback for the future. Then fix the line. If they have shit play at QB, even if they have a fixed line they are not competing for titles.
Get a Quarterback to lead this franchise for the next decade. They can't wait any longer. Eli is done. There's a large enough sample size to realize that, and age absolutely is a factor. He's not getting any younger and he is no longer good enough to lead this franchise to contending for titles
I don't want a rehash of David Carr/Ryan Leaf, where the line sucks and the QB gets destroyed.
So don't play the future QB. Just like the Giants didnt play a rookie QB and wouldn't have played him at all if Kurt Warner wasnt a shell shocked zombie.
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In comment 14101323 MookGiants said:
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that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't get it done with this OL is fucking laughable. Rodgers has played behind shit lines before and still been a terrific player.
Ben Roethlisberger has played behind shit offensive lines and played well. Aaron Rodgers has. Many great QB's have. They don't suddenly suck when their line sucks.
Mook, I would strongly argue that rodgers nor Ben ever played with these bad of OLs. In fact, GB and Pitt always have had some of the best OLs in the league.
And Pitts OL hasnt been as good this year, but neither has Ben. He really, really struggled last night.
Pittsburgh had one of the worst offensive lines with big ben at QB for a few years. Before they drafted Pouncey and all of those guys. Green Bay has had bad offensive line play at times. Whether or not they have had an oline as bad as the Giants is up for debate, but its not up for debate that they have played seasons with bad offensive line play.
But Big Ben and Rodgers can somewhat hide bad offensive line play with their ability to move and create time with their legs. Eli doesn't do that, at all. The offensive line still wouldnt be any good but if you put a QB who can create time with his legs like Rodgers does they would look a lot better than they do right now.
Eli is a below average QB at this point. He once in a while has a good game, but most games he's at best mediocre.