"I feel like the guys up front put a scare in the quarterback, rushing him the way they rushed," #Saints cornerback Ken Crawley said. "I know there were some shots there downfield, but he didn't take them."
that count. They haven't scored 30 points since 2015. The GM is 68 next year. The QB is 38 next year. Their cap is a mess with old very top heavy players. They just drafted a RB #2 who while talented has not been touched by the hand of god and certainly isn't a generational player because if he is what is 30 on the Rams or 21 on Dallas or 41 on NO or 27 on JAX or several others. The Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL with no end to that in sight.
Against Watt and co but he’s cooked this week? Sy and others have repeatedly said this Oline isn’t much better so why are some claiming that Eli is the one who is cooked? Odd logic here.
And didn’t Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
A struggling Colts offense just hung 31 on that Texans D in regulation. Eli had a good game last week, there's no denying that. But the bad games are more consistent. This was a game where the OL wasn't great, but didn't kill him and we faced a bad defense. No consistency on offense, no points. This has been going on forever and he's the QB.
Is awful. With weapons like OBJ and Barkley. I personally would know how to move the chains and put up points. You run the ball often into the mouth of the defense. And keep pounding it until barkley breaks one. Then defense has to respect it and you go up top to OBJ.
how you fixing not picking up simple stunts and OL whiffing on blitzers?
Get rid of Eli, even the Russell Wilon's of the world will struggle with that.
I’m expecting better coaching and scheming which can be limited with what you have to work with. This scouting group better start hitting on OL picks these next couple years. Solder is a temporary fit for a couple seasons. Right now there’s three starting spots up for grabs and a couple reserve spots still that need good depth.
I’m already moving to look to the future. I love this team but when I watch Eli play QB I feel like have to take a Viagra or Cialis to believe in this team or winning.
Eli doesn't have one much of the time. Watching Flacci behind his line throwing deep accurate passes is reminding me what we are missing.
Eli is not without blame but it seems as though the game plan is to protect the football first and foremost. Eli only has 1 interception this year. He is being very cautious with his passing. Again, lots of check downs, and short passes.
I am hoping Shurmur encourages Eli to take more shots downfield. Even if you don't connect in a pass you can loosen up the defense or draw a PI.
that count. They haven't scored 30 points since 2015. The GM is 68 next year. The QB is 38 next year. Their cap is a mess with old very top heavy players. They just drafted a RB #2 who while talented has not been touched by the hand of god and certainly isn't a generational player because if he is what is 30 on the Rams or 21 on Dallas or 41 on NO or 27 on JAX or several others. The Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL with no end to that in sight.
youre out of your mind if you dont think barkley is generational. he is already thru 4 games one of the most talented backs in football. his ability to maintain balance and accelerate is like no other back. if we had a decent OL, this kid would have 200 yards from scrimmage on a few occasions. barkley is probably the only reason to tune into giants games as it currently stands
We have been looking to do that for the last 7 years. Hasnt worked.
They’ve fired many of those decision makers. The NFL despite it’s not for long pun and identity, generally requires 2-3 years for regimes to really build and infuse their identity in football teams in the talent, discipline, schemes, etc.
2020 will be the make or break year for Gettleman and Shurmur.
Stop it. Clearly some believe they can go win SBs with one of these new shiny QBs playing pinball football and winning fantasy football points, until they go into their sophomore years and defenses have enough film on them and they move onto the next shiny QB.
Eli is actually throwing the ball extremely well but there are going to be ups and downs with this new team
show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
He’s making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now can’t make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
You keep concentrating on getting rid of Eli. Fine. Lets get rid of him. Draft a rookie QB and hope for the best.
Meanwhile our number 2 pick, who is a FANTASTIC player, has 44 carries for 121 yards (less than 3 YPC btw) outside two runs where he got it all by himself.
How you fixing that?
It's Eli's fault the oline can't open up a running lane.
RE: The Giants have won 4 of their last 21 games Â
that count. They haven't scored 30 points since 2015. The GM is 68 next year. The QB is 38 next year. Their cap is a mess with old very top heavy players. They just drafted a RB #2 who while talented has not been touched by the hand of god and certainly isn't a generational player because if he is what is 30 on the Rams or 21 on Dallas or 41 on NO or 27 on JAX or several others. The Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL with no end to that in sight.
Amen, brother. The folks on this board were convinced SB was a mix of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Ladanian Tomlinson, but better.. You can't be a generational talent when there are 5 guys in the league just as good as you or better... at least five... passing on a QB was a mistake we will regret for a while.
Against Watt and co but he’s cooked this week? Sy and others have repeatedly said this Oline isn’t much better so why are some claiming that Eli is the one who is cooked? Odd logic here.
And didn’t Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
agreed. eli gets a ton of shit.
he isnt a part of the solution tho and the giants should move on in 19 or 20 the latest. that being said he does get ALOT of heat...we know he is slow and cant escape, so the push against our interior is killer...OL just isnt good, i mean we see it all game. even barkley gets hit in backfield often.
I think that's always been the plan to move on by 2020. Shore up the O-Line in a loaded O-Lineman draft next draft and grab the QB in 20
This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year... Â
1. The OL still sucks. We did not do enough this off season to fix it.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
RE: The Giants have won 4 of their last 21 games Â
that count. They haven't scored 30 points since 2015. The GM is 68 next year. The QB is 38 next year. Their cap is a mess with old very top heavy players. They just drafted a RB #2 who while talented has not been touched by the hand of god and certainly isn't a generational player because if he is what is 30 on the Rams or 21 on Dallas or 41 on NO or 27 on JAX or several others. The Giants are one of the worst teams in the NFL with no end to that in sight.
You do realize that every team except for NO was shitty for a few years which allowed them to stockpile low picks
RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year... Â
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year... Â
1. The OL still sucks. We did not do enough this off season to fix it.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is a fair summation of our offense.
RE: RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year... Â
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
exactly. there is so much that goes into QBn in todays NFL, not every QB has great escapability....the OL especially on Interior has been poor. is pretty simple, give eli time he can throw down field, pressure in elis face, check down champs
I wonder who put that thought in Crawley's ear... Â
Stop it. Clearly some believe they can go win SBs with one of these new shiny QBs playing pinball football and winning fantasy football points, until they go into their sophomore years and defenses have enough film on them and they move onto the next shiny QB.
Eli is actually throwing the ball extremely well but there are going to be ups and downs with this new team
I will agree with you 100% when it comes to certain QBs like Dak for example. However, some young QBs are simply better. The moment Mayfield came into the game last week, the Browns instantly became better than this Giants team.
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
The “GOOD” games from Eli are few and far between over the last number of years. One of those games last year insured his return this year (fluke Philly game). Until this team gets consistently good QB play, playoffs and/or Super Bowls are very unattainable. The last time we got good QB play week in and week out was 2011. That was fucking 7 years ago. Enough is enough.
OL is a bigger problem than OL. The proof is that they can't open holes for Barkley. But Eli is completely immobile.
I agree that at times it does seem like Eli is shell shocked from all the hits he's taken. But it's also true that he frequently doesn't have enough time, or is throwing against six or seven defenders.
The question is whether the OL can be fixed while Eli is still productive. My guess is no. The OL likely won't be full fixed until 2020. I don't see Eli lasting that long, especially given the beatings he's taking.
The first drive was great to see and I imagine the entire stadium was feeling pretty good. Then Gallman fumbles the ball, Eli and the defense save a TD.
Payton does that sneaky BS he loves doing with the fake punt and you start getting that Uh Oh feeling. Saints were on their heels and Brees wasn’t playing well, but the momentum was turning. Then that putrid non horse collar call happens.
Eli drives them down again but Rhett Ellison can’t hang on to that TD pass. He has to come down with that. Eli wasn’t perfect but jeez, this reactionary BS is unbelievable
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
RE: RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year... Â
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
Dep, I never said FIRST. I said MUST. Reading comprehension brother. Yes, we have set ourselves up for failure because our OL is so bad that our QB MUST be able to avoid the first pass rusher. This is not necessarily a knock on Eli. IF anything, it shows how fucked up our front office has been for years. We lets the OL get progressively worse since 2011 KNOWING that our QB has a few limitations and that having an average OL was critical to his ability to perform.
and disguising pressures while at the same time hemming OBJ in a 1/2 field bracket. In order for Beckham to get a free release off the line, dip into a spot between corners and the safety on his side, over the linebackers, Eli is toast. Plus, the offense is predicated on some TE play which this team lost from a playmaking standpoint this week and is relying on Brett Ellison and some other guy (sorry) to fill in.
Remember Eli's years with reliable TEs who could block, catch and were athletic? They were his nice warm blanket.
He's not willing to get murdered at this point to (1) throw a pass to a spot and (2) hang in only to get smashed into the turf. He's not indestructible. And he's not a young guy anymore. I don't really blame him at this point. But he's not moving the needle and his ability to make exceptional throws under duress is very limited at this point.
It's a terrible combination of a new coach (who inspires absolutely NO confidence), new offensive line, new offensive scheme, horrific previous seasons with the pressure to succeed immediately in NY, and excellent skill players who need the ball to make a difference but aren't positioned to be successful.
This is the perfect storm of futility.
I was at the game and could see the whole field. Â
Rebuild already, we can lose and spend less money and there won't be a bunch of sacred cow debate going on every week. Saquon was a good pick, but it was fucking strategy to pass up on those QBs. We fucked our future as you will soon see. Wasn't Shumer some sort of QB whisperer, maybe he should whisper in Eli's ear to fucking step it up for what he is paid.
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
Dep, I really do not care if he completed a load of passes within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. Yes, he needed to get the ball down field more. His weak OL has fucked with his mind and he simply cannot stand in there and wait for the longer plays to develop even when he does have the time. You are also correct in that the play calling has often not made sense either. What you and I will never know is whether the plays we think were stupid are the ones sent in from the sideline or ones that Eli checked to at the line. I suppose it was probably a combination of the two.
is a train wreck, but Eli is also finished. I don't know how many more games people need to see to realize he is done. This team never scores 30 points and hasn't done so on any type of consistent basis for years. Eli plays scared. It's hard to blame him for playing scared the way the line has been, but he does not even attempt to throw the ball down the field at this point. He's gun shy. Mentally he has been destroyed and physically age has caught up with him.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
What are you watching? 4-17 in their last 21 games that count. Haven't scored 30 points since 2015. What do you expect from Giant fans with that record?
It’s hard for me to take any QB seriously until their sophomore year. Mayfield is fun to watch and he has an entertaining swagger that fans love but defenses will figure him out. If he lasts, then I’ll throw a few flowers at his feet.
Certain match ups will give the Giants a world of trouble this season. It would be true with any of these QBs. I think fans too often need a punching bag and the only one left is Eli Manning. I don’t think fans realize how much he’s helping this team right now and that is very sad to witness.
The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys open—nicks and plax— now he won’t make the throw period—
He also won’t take the hit to make the throw either
Last week. I guess throwing his receivers open only counts with wins? When they lose he never threw them open and hadn’t for years even though he just did this game and last week
And it’s really the easiest way for me to process everything. Eli isn’t helping this offense. And that’s a cold fucking fact. Tell me I’m wrong. You can’t. Why? Because this offense still fucking blows. Eli is not helping anything. Is he the source of all that’s wrong? Absolutely not, but he isn’t helping. This offense needs help. Maybe the giants could win with Eli but it has sure as fuck has been difficult to win with him over a long stretch now. They have to upgrade the qb position. This is getting ridiculous. Guy has one good game against the Texans and then right back to shit offense. Enough already.
It’s impossible to get first downs cause we don’t have WRs running routes pst the marker. That’s coaching.
Dude, come on, we get it. You will never fault him for anything. Why even comment on anything here that is Eli related when everyone and their mother know exactly what your answer will be? It's never his fault, never ever ever ever ever. He's cooked dude, just watch, well don't actually you won't see anything but a halo over his head and evil souls surrounding him like his OL just opened the Ark of the Covenant and he's helpless to do anything close his eyes or risk being melted into goo.
I get it too. When we lose, its all on him and we cant comment on other players on the team.
Jesus Christ. Show me one time today I said were he played even good. Just show it.
OH don't play all or nothing, you defend him constantly, he's a part of the problem and is the major one and has been for years. It's a swirl of shit and he's the main one but you won't say it and you'll run to his defense.
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
Yeah he completed alot of passes all check downs underneath throws the defense just gives him.. Wake me up when he throws downfield
RE: RE: This is really simple but it also is not getting fixed this year... Â
1. The OL still sucks. We did not do enough this off season to fix it.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is a fair summation of our offense.
+2.
RE: ELi was getting praised for throwing guys open Â
Last week. I guess throwing his receivers open only counts with wins? When they lose he never threw them open and hadn’t for years even though he just did this game and last week
ONE WEEK OUT OF FUCKING FOUR! You ok with 25%? He didn't throw anyone open, he's not that guy anymore, but you and dep can get in a sweat lodge and chant all you want and hope some ghosts come to his aid but he's fucking cooked. Look at his W-L record for 5 years and the talent he's had and then come back and trumpet more shit about him. I love the guy, he gutted us to two SB wins but he's shot and you and his roadies or groupies or whatever you people are, need to wake the fuck up to the reality of shitty QB play and realize he is at the pinnacle of it.
OH don't play all or nothing, you defend him constantly, he's a part of the problem and is the major one and has been for years. It's a swirl of shit and he's the main one but you won't say it and you'll run to his defense.
Yep, I wasnt here all offseason saying the Giants should draft his replacement and replace Eli when we were out of playoff contention.
For me, this is about Eli anymore. He is done probabyl after this year and I have been saying this for months. But replacing him is not guaranteeing success. In fact, it can get worse. We are among the leagues worst at 2 things. Blocking and rushing the passer. I dont give a shit who is our QB now. We have been overpaying for players for years trying to fix this mess. And in the end despite giving out huge contracts to OV, OBJ, Solder, Snacks, JJ - we still suck. And no I am not saying that they suck, cause some of they are very, very good players- but its not leading to wins.
You want to win, you have to totally gut the roster. And start over. We are using band aids to try to stop floods.
And it’s really the easiest way for me to process everything. Eli isn’t helping this offense. And that’s a cold fucking fact. Tell me I’m wrong. You can’t. Why? Because this offense still fucking blows. Eli is not helping anything. Is he the source of all that’s wrong? Absolutely not, but he isn’t helping. This offense needs help. Maybe the giants could win with Eli but it has sure as fuck has been difficult to win with him over a long stretch now. They have to upgrade the qb position. This is getting ridiculous. Guy has one good game against the Texans and then right back to shit offense. Enough already.
I was there last year but I really think it's beyond that. There's more and more evidence that he isn't seeing or pulling the trigger on plays that can be made. He's exaggerating the existing problems.
ONE WEEK OUT OF FUCKING FOUR! You ok with 25%? He didn't throw anyone open, he's not that guy anymore, but you and dep can get in a sweat lodge and chant all you want and hope some ghosts come to his aid but he's fucking cooked. Look at his W-L record for 5 years and the talent he's had and then come back and trumpet more shit about him. I love the guy, he gutted us to two SB wins but he's shot and you and his roadies or groupies or whatever you people are, need to wake the fuck up to the reality of shitty QB play and realize he is at the pinnacle of it.
Or Sy
Eli Manning: 25/29 – 297 yards – 2 TD / 0 INT. Manning finished with a 132.3 QB rating, the 9th best of his 15 year career. After 2 weeks of almost-no breathing room in the pocket, the offensive live elevated its play just enough for Manning to go through a read or two consistently. The results speak for themselves. Manning was quick to get the ball out, was on fire throughout every tier of the passing tree, and was as intense as we’ve seen him in a long time. As I’ve said since draft-time, Eli Manning is far from done and when the offensive line can play just OK, he can lead this team to wins. Plain and simple, really
Plain and simple indeed. A sweat lodge and chanting. Koombaya or someone looking at the film and not needing to be a jerk. Tough one. Btw, if he didn’t throw open receivers all day including that TD pass to bring them within one score, then check yourself into that sweat lodge and stay there
RE: RE: See? That right there is a perfect example. Â
The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys open—nicks and plax— now he won’t make the throw period—
He also won’t take the hit to make the throw either
This is the point. We can all see the oline is inconsistent. We also see receivers open and balls sailing over their heads. It only takes a few missed plays per game to ruin it. Whether it is Deayon not able to make two tackles to end a drive, Eli missing multiple open people for big gains, oline missing a stunt or the coach mismanaging the clock. Add all those screw ups up and you lose the game.
I saw multiple plays where I could see a mobile QB get out of the pocket to make plays.
They have a play maker in Barkley and don't use him enough, same with Beckham. Did you see a screen pass to slow the rush or capitalize on it? Did you see Eli throw into the blitz to the vacated area?
The Giants are going to suck this year and maybe next. There are a lot of pieces of deadwood still on that roster. The line probably needs two more pieces and a few backups.
Be realistic. This is at least a two year rebuild, whether you like it or not. Good news is they will have another top five pick in the draft.
but I think his internal clock that goes off in his head about when to get rid of the ball is all messed up from years of trauma. You can't always see the pass rush coming, and sometimes you have to estimate when it's going to get there.
And didn’t Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
A struggling Colts offense just hung 31 on that Texans D in regulation. Eli had a good game last week, there's no denying that. But the bad games are more consistent. This was a game where the OL wasn't great, but didn't kill him and we faced a bad defense. No consistency on offense, no points. This has been going on forever and he's the QB.
Get rid of Eli, even the Russell Wilon's of the world will struggle with that.
I’m expecting better coaching and scheming which can be limited with what you have to work with. This scouting group better start hitting on OL picks these next couple years. Solder is a temporary fit for a couple seasons. Right now there’s three starting spots up for grabs and a couple reserve spots still that need good depth.
I’m already moving to look to the future. I love this team but when I watch Eli play QB I feel like have to take a Viagra or Cialis to believe in this team or winning.
Eli is not without blame but it seems as though the game plan is to protect the football first and foremost. Eli only has 1 interception this year. He is being very cautious with his passing. Again, lots of check downs, and short passes.
I am hoping Shurmur encourages Eli to take more shots downfield. Even if you don't connect in a pass you can loosen up the defense or draw a PI.
Too much WCO slants and hooks BS. Where was the PA rollout that Shermer uses one game, then forgets the next?
youre out of your mind if you dont think barkley is generational. he is already thru 4 games one of the most talented backs in football. his ability to maintain balance and accelerate is like no other back. if we had a decent OL, this kid would have 200 yards from scrimmage on a few occasions. barkley is probably the only reason to tune into giants games as it currently stands
Quote:
Finding a RT, C/G types who are big but mobile.
We have been looking to do that for the last 7 years. Hasnt worked.
They’ve fired many of those decision makers. The NFL despite it’s not for long pun and identity, generally requires 2-3 years for regimes to really build and infuse their identity in football teams in the talent, discipline, schemes, etc.
2020 will be the make or break year for Gettleman and Shurmur.
Eli is actually throwing the ball extremely well but there are going to be ups and downs with this new team
Quote:
In comment 14100373 dep026 said:
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show me ONE time I said Eli played well today. Jesus Fuckign Christ.
Guess what people..... sometimes its more than him. Play calling, OL, skilled players. There are OTHER people who are part of the problem. Yet you people keep saying the same thing time after time. Bring something new the table. Jesus Christ already.
He’s making 23 million and they rebuilt the organization in deference to giving him one more run and chance. People want to blame Shurmur and his offense but what is he supposed to do with an unathletic and immobile 37-38 yr old QB who now can’t make hard deep throws and hears footsteps?
You keep concentrating on getting rid of Eli. Fine. Lets get rid of him. Draft a rookie QB and hope for the best.
Meanwhile our number 2 pick, who is a FANTASTIC player, has 44 carries for 121 yards (less than 3 YPC btw) outside two runs where he got it all by himself.
How you fixing that?
It's Eli's fault the oline can't open up a running lane.
Amen, brother. The folks on this board were convinced SB was a mix of Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Ladanian Tomlinson, but better.. You can't be a generational talent when there are 5 guys in the league just as good as you or better... at least five... passing on a QB was a mistake we will regret for a while.
Quote:
Against Watt and co but he’s cooked this week? Sy and others have repeatedly said this Oline isn’t much better so why are some claiming that Eli is the one who is cooked? Odd logic here.
And didn’t Eli keep driving the team to within one score? Did Eli being cooked cause the defense to commit that penalty? Or Gallman to fumble the ball?
agreed. eli gets a ton of shit.
he isnt a part of the solution tho and the giants should move on in 19 or 20 the latest. that being said he does get ALOT of heat...we know he is slow and cant escape, so the push against our interior is killer...OL just isnt good, i mean we see it all game. even barkley gets hit in backfield often.
I think that's always been the plan to move on by 2020. Shore up the O-Line in a loaded O-Lineman draft next draft and grab the QB in 20
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is a fair summation of our offense.
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This is the easiest offense in the league to defend. We have a good QB but this is the wrong QB for this offensive line. The QB that plays behind this line MUST be able to elude the first pass rusher with a side step or something. Eli cannot do that. This team is not winning with Eli until the OL gets fixed and plays at a level that is average or above.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
exactly. there is so much that goes into QBn in todays NFL, not every QB has great escapability....the OL especially on Interior has been poor. is pretty simple, give eli time he can throw down field, pressure in elis face, check down champs
Eli is actually throwing the ball extremely well but there are going to be ups and downs with this new team
I will agree with you 100% when it comes to certain QBs like Dak for example. However, some young QBs are simply better. The moment Mayfield came into the game last week, the Browns instantly became better than this Giants team.
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
I agree that at times it does seem like Eli is shell shocked from all the hits he's taken. But it's also true that he frequently doesn't have enough time, or is throwing against six or seven defenders.
The question is whether the OL can be fixed while Eli is still productive. My guess is no. The OL likely won't be full fixed until 2020. I don't see Eli lasting that long, especially given the beatings he's taking.
Payton does that sneaky BS he loves doing with the fake punt and you start getting that Uh Oh feeling. Saints were on their heels and Brees wasn’t playing well, but the momentum was turning. Then that putrid non horse collar call happens.
Eli drives them down again but Rhett Ellison can’t hang on to that TD pass. He has to come down with that. Eli wasn’t perfect but jeez, this reactionary BS is unbelievable
On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
If the first attritubute of your QB is that he must avoid the first defensive lineman, you are setting yourself up for failure.
Dep, I never said FIRST. I said MUST. Reading comprehension brother. Yes, we have set ourselves up for failure because our OL is so bad that our QB MUST be able to avoid the first pass rusher. This is not necessarily a knock on Eli. IF anything, it shows how fucked up our front office has been for years. We lets the OL get progressively worse since 2011 KNOWING that our QB has a few limitations and that having an average OL was critical to his ability to perform.
Remember Eli's years with reliable TEs who could block, catch and were athletic? They were his nice warm blanket.
He's not willing to get murdered at this point to (1) throw a pass to a spot and (2) hang in only to get smashed into the turf. He's not indestructible. And he's not a young guy anymore. I don't really blame him at this point. But he's not moving the needle and his ability to make exceptional throws under duress is very limited at this point.
It's a terrible combination of a new coach (who inspires absolutely NO confidence), new offensive line, new offensive scheme, horrific previous seasons with the pressure to succeed immediately in NY, and excellent skill players who need the ball to make a difference but aren't positioned to be successful.
This is the perfect storm of futility.
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On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
Dep, I really do not care if he completed a load of passes within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. Yes, he needed to get the ball down field more. His weak OL has fucked with his mind and he simply cannot stand in there and wait for the longer plays to develop even when he does have the time. You are also correct in that the play calling has often not made sense either. What you and I will never know is whether the plays we think were stupid are the ones sent in from the sideline or ones that Eli checked to at the line. I suppose it was probably a combination of the two.
He has something physically left in the tank, I'm not sure how much, but mentally he is done and you add in his diminished physical skills and you have a player that is finished being a good football player.
He can once in a while have a decent game, but he's just not a good QB anymore.
Eli owes this franchise nothing. That he now isn't any good does not take anything away from how great he was for this franchise. I'll forever be grateful for Eli Manning, but it's time to move on.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
Certain match ups will give the Giants a world of trouble this season. It would be true with any of these QBs. I think fans too often need a punching bag and the only one left is Eli Manning. I don’t think fans realize how much he’s helping this team right now and that is very sad to witness.
I still think they should have taken a QB.
Remember Eli's years with reliable TEs who could block, catch and were athletic? They were his nice warm blanket.
Is Ellison a step down from that perspective to Boss/Ballard? He's not the same QB, for the some of the reasons highlighted in the rest of your post.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys open—nicks and plax— now he won’t make the throw period—
He also won’t take the hit to make the throw either
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In comment 14100328 dep026 said:
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It’s impossible to get first downs cause we don’t have WRs running routes pst the marker. That’s coaching.
Dude, come on, we get it. You will never fault him for anything. Why even comment on anything here that is Eli related when everyone and their mother know exactly what your answer will be? It's never his fault, never ever ever ever ever. He's cooked dude, just watch, well don't actually you won't see anything but a halo over his head and evil souls surrounding him like his OL just opened the Ark of the Covenant and he's helpless to do anything close his eyes or risk being melted into goo.
I get it too. When we lose, its all on him and we cant comment on other players on the team.
Jesus Christ. Show me one time today I said were he played even good. Just show it.
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On your last point, Eli has made some nice throws. He also has made a lot of bad throws too. The inconsistency is part of our problem as a team.
He had 10 incompletions which included 4-5 throw aways. He mde two horrific throws to OBJ in the first half. Throwing wise - he was fine. Now if you wanna say he should have thrown down the field more, thats a different argument.
Yeah he completed alot of passes all check downs underneath throws the defense just gives him.. Wake me up when he throws downfield
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1. The OL still sucks. We did not do enough this off season to fix it.
2. Eli does not have the ability to see anything other than the rush coming at him. He then does not look for anything other than the check down. Reverse camera angles show that others may be open but Eli is not going to stand in there the extra half second to find the guy.
3. Defenses know Eli is going to bail. All they need to do is man up on the WRs and Barkley, then bring everyone else. He will either check down or get into the fetal position.
This is a fair summation of our offense.
+2.
OH don't play all or nothing, you defend him constantly, he's a part of the problem and is the major one and has been for years. It's a swirl of shit and he's the main one but you won't say it and you'll run to his defense.
Yep, I wasnt here all offseason saying the Giants should draft his replacement and replace Eli when we were out of playoff contention.
For me, this is about Eli anymore. He is done probabyl after this year and I have been saying this for months. But replacing him is not guaranteeing success. In fact, it can get worse. We are among the leagues worst at 2 things. Blocking and rushing the passer. I dont give a shit who is our QB now. We have been overpaying for players for years trying to fix this mess. And in the end despite giving out huge contracts to OV, OBJ, Solder, Snacks, JJ - we still suck. And no I am not saying that they suck, cause some of they are very, very good players- but its not leading to wins.
You want to win, you have to totally gut the roster. And start over. We are using band aids to try to stop floods.
I was there last year but I really think it's beyond that. There's more and more evidence that he isn't seeing or pulling the trigger on plays that can be made. He's exaggerating the existing problems.
ONE WEEK OUT OF FUCKING FOUR! You ok with 25%? He didn't throw anyone open, he's not that guy anymore, but you and dep can get in a sweat lodge and chant all you want and hope some ghosts come to his aid but he's fucking cooked. Look at his W-L record for 5 years and the talent he's had and then come back and trumpet more shit about him. I love the guy, he gutted us to two SB wins but he's shot and you and his roadies or groupies or whatever you people are, need to wake the fuck up to the reality of shitty QB play and realize he is at the pinnacle of it.
Or Sy
Eli Manning: 25/29 – 297 yards – 2 TD / 0 INT. Manning finished with a 132.3 QB rating, the 9th best of his 15 year career. After 2 weeks of almost-no breathing room in the pocket, the offensive live elevated its play just enough for Manning to go through a read or two consistently. The results speak for themselves. Manning was quick to get the ball out, was on fire throughout every tier of the passing tree, and was as intense as we’ve seen him in a long time. As I’ve said since draft-time, Eli Manning is far from done and when the offensive line can play just OK, he can lead this team to wins. Plain and simple, really
Plain and simple indeed. A sweat lodge and chanting. Koombaya or someone looking at the film and not needing to be a jerk. Tough one. Btw, if he didn’t throw open receivers all day including that TD pass to bring them within one score, then check yourself into that sweat lodge and stay there
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The Rapist throws a ball to a spot - not a player - and lets his superstar WR make the play.
This team isn't good enough to be "fine" or "perfect" - let your players make plays.
Eli used to be great at that. Now, he's oddly tentative and nervous. You're still going to get hit, right?
He used to be one of the best at throwing guys open—nicks and plax— now he won’t make the throw period—
He also won’t take the hit to make the throw either
This is the point. We can all see the oline is inconsistent. We also see receivers open and balls sailing over their heads. It only takes a few missed plays per game to ruin it. Whether it is Deayon not able to make two tackles to end a drive, Eli missing multiple open people for big gains, oline missing a stunt or the coach mismanaging the clock. Add all those screw ups up and you lose the game.
I saw multiple plays where I could see a mobile QB get out of the pocket to make plays.
They have a play maker in Barkley and don't use him enough, same with Beckham. Did you see a screen pass to slow the rush or capitalize on it? Did you see Eli throw into the blitz to the vacated area?
The Giants are going to suck this year and maybe next. There are a lot of pieces of deadwood still on that roster. The line probably needs two more pieces and a few backups.
Be realistic. This is at least a two year rebuild, whether you like it or not. Good news is they will have another top five pick in the draft.