It's time to face the facts: the Giants are going to be big underdogs in each of their next three games. If we lose that string out, and Eli continues his poor play, are we turning to Lauletta?
I know Eli has been completing a high percentage of his passes. But he constantly checks down. We have difficulty breaking 20, forget getting to 30. Last week against Houston, we scored 20 in the first half and barely anything the rest of the game.
I know what happened last year. This is not last year. Eli's streak is over. The O-Line may still be an issue, but he has no excuses for a lack of weapons, as we have ODB and Barkley (as well as Shepard).
So, with the team out of contention entering the bye (if it goes that way), what do we do? Do we stubbornly stick with Eli, or do we use the bye week to get Lauletta prepared and see what Lauletta he can do?
I also think it could only help Lauletta. At least the team would have some idea about him. That alone has value.
I heard that too. With Shurmur, you need to read between the lines. "Coach speak."
The 2nd half of the schedule is much easier than the first half. I'm willing to hang in there until we are literally mathematically eliminated.
many of the yards are garbage time stat pads. and also a substitute for a lack of run attempts.
The team is not scoring and not moving with rhythm. He was much better in seasons 2008 with a much worse stat line as he led high scoring offenses.
But as a Giants fan it s a legitimate question, don t pay attention to those who try to minimize your point. They somehow believe that ridiculing other posts makes this a better site.
The 2nd half of the schedule is much easier than the first half. I'm willing to hang in there until we are literally mathematically eliminated.
Stats don’t tell the whole story, we’ve got to stop this.
Holy moly.
i’m not going to even blame him. this offensive design is to dink and dunk which makes the comp pct good and the qb rating decent.does not matter the offense for many reasons is a fail.
i’m not going to even blame him. this offensive design is to dink and dunk which makes the comp pct good and the qb rating decent.does not matter the offense for many reasons is a fail.
Oh I am not disagreeing with the notion. I hate using stats to judge a qbs performance. I just find it funny people are saying he is getting yards and tds in garbage time. That I definitely don’t see.
and he got them to 1 score but no played soft on his scoring drive as they knew no way nyg would actually score twice in large marches with limited time.
This team is still a mess-this roster needs major help still. i don’t think it helps to kick Eli as he’s done playing at a high level but hardly the sole reason for the losing but pointing to his stat line as some reason he’s still got a lot left is misleading as well.
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cmon. this is his best qb rating in his career and it’s not even close to his best season. You very well know that.
i’m not going to even blame him. this offensive design is to dink and dunk which makes the comp pct good and the qb rating decent.does not matter the offense for many reasons is a fail.
Oh I am not disagreeing with the notion. I hate using stats to judge a qbs performance. I just find it funny people are saying he is getting yards and tds in garbage time. That I definitely don’t see.
His TD pass to Engram in Dallas wasn’t a garbage time score? His passing yards down 26-10 late yesterday weren’t vs a prevent defense?
and he got them to 1 score but no played soft on his scoring drive as they knew no way nyg would actually score twice in large marches with limited time.
This team is still a mess-this roster needs major help still. i don’t think it helps to kick Eli as he’s done playing at a high level but hardly the sole reason for the losing but pointing to his stat line as some reason he’s still got a lot left is misleading as well.
I’ll respond to your post since it was well thought out not the eagles fans post.
Yes engrams TD was a garbage time one. But for the most part all of Eli stats that have been accumulated have been in close game situations.
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In comment 14100980 hassan said:
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cmon. this is his best qb rating in his career and it’s not even close to his best season. You very well know that.
i’m not going to even blame him. this offensive design is to dink and dunk which makes the comp pct good and the qb rating decent.does not matter the offense for many reasons is a fail.
His passing yards down 26-10 late yesterday weren’t vs a prevent defense?
We scored to make it a one possession game with 4:00 left and it wasn’t against a prevent defense either. But other than that... good work.
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In comment 14100982 dep026 said:
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In comment 14100980 hassan said:
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cmon. this is his best qb rating in his career and it’s not even close to his best season. You very well know that.
i’m not going to even blame him. this offensive design is to dink and dunk which makes the comp pct good and the qb rating decent.does not matter the offense for many reasons is a fail.
His passing yards down 26-10 late yesterday weren’t vs a prevent defense?
We scored to make it a one possession game with 4:00 left and it wasn’t against a prevent defense either. But other than that... good work.
It wasn’t against a prevent D? What game were you watching? The middle of the field was so open a high school QB could play pitch and catch.
Hmmm.... so one pass to Odell where there was a blown coverage means it was prevent. Thanks Sherlock.
That’s 4 plays... hey maybe we have a dynamic offense after all?
Why because he can’t hand it off and check it down?
The Cardinals are playing their rookie QB behind a worse oline than ours. So are the Bills.
line and skill players in 04 when he stared.
many of the yards are garbage time stat pads. and also a substitute for a lack of run attempts.
The team is not scoring and not moving with rhythm. He was much better in seasons 2008 with a much worse stat line as he led high scoring offenses.
In 2008 the Giants had a good Oline. So, what's your point?
his rating is much higher now but it’s not indicative of better qb play.
Stats can lie to this end.
It doesn't matter. What is the justification? He is being paid $23M to play. DG and Shurmur said he still has it. If they bench him, then they are trying to lose, which should get them fired.
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behind that OL makes total sense to me.
The Cardinals are playing their rookie QB behind a worse oline than ours. So are the Bills.
I don't know if their OLs are worse. Ours has to be worst in run blocking and close to it in pass blocking.
line and skill players in 04 when he stared.
I don't know about 79, but the 04 team was better than this one. Seriously.
"I was wrong about Eli. I thought we could win with him, but I was wrong. The team wasn't good enough to protect him and so we failed. So I will start Lauletta to see if he is our QB of the future."
THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
the point is rookie qbs don’t need perfection to start.
Oh no! Please let’s not try to actually throw the ball downfield. That could result in a poor record and unable to qualify for the playoffs...
there is a reason to start lauletta in a lost season as nyg has to start evaluating future at position.
the point is rookie qbs don’t need perfection to start.
Luke Petitgout
Jason Whittle
Shaun O'Hara
Chris Snee
David Diehl
That offensive line was miles ahead of this one.
Tiki Barber
Jim Finn
Amani Toomer
Ike Hilliard
Jeremy Shockey
Prime Tiki and rookie Barkley are washes at best. Sure, there's no Beckham there, but these guys aren't chopped liver.
No, the 2004 offense was without a doubt better than this one.
The telling part in that quote, for me, is that it gives insight as to how much input Chris Mara has. We've bandied about whether he's a token nepotism job, a guy with some input, or a guy up to his elbows.
Personally, I think the Maras are a big part of the problem, and they're not going away, so the outlook of the team, for a long time, is not giving me a warm fuzzy feeling. egads, we could be like Dallas: our heyday behind us and the best we can hope for is being also-rans.
That was the point. many fine qbs had to start in less than ideal conditions to begin careers - if Giants wait for a perfect storm to trot out next qb it will be a long time.
"I was wrong about Eli. I thought we could win with him, but I was wrong. The team wasn't good enough to protect him and so we failed. So I will start Lauletta to see if he is our QB of the future."
.
Damn, that sounds refreshing...
It matters not at all.
On the field or on the bench, the Giants we would like to see is in the future with several unknown players still in college.
Yes, folks, the road back to success is long and winding.
I walked it from 1964 - 1981.
That was the point. many fine qbs had to start in less than ideal conditions to begin careers - if Giants wait for a perfect storm to trot out next qb it will be a long time.
It wasn't good, but if you traded this OL for that one we'd be 3-1. And I'm slowly but surely on the "Eli is at the end of the road" train, but facts are that 04 team was better.
The telling part in that quote, for me, is that it gives insight as to how much input Chris Mara has. We've bandied about whether he's a token nepotism job, a guy with some input, or a guy up to his elbows.
Personally, I think the Maras are a big part of the problem, and they're not going away, so the outlook of the team, for a long time, is not giving me a warm fuzzy feeling. egads, we could be like Dallas: our heyday behind us and the best we can hope for is being also-rans.
Where is that quote from?
Also, that's almost the smoking gun that Reese or Gettleman, the true GM of this team is Chris Mara.
irrespective of how much the offensive woes are on eli this team has to evaluate lauletta if the team is eliminated.
Jim is correct that would require admitting their strategy was wrong on some level to believe and sell the notion Eli should have one last hurrah. he is also correct that admitting they were wrong may not be the way this group conducts business.
But i’m only commenting on what i believe they should do which is to give him a look and evaluate him.
I believe Lauletta will get snaps at the end of the year. Will he start? I am not sure. However, again - big picture. Lauletta starts next year or we draft a QB, we still have this problem.
No RT
C who is 33 years old.
RG who has been miserable this year.
I expect hernandez to get better. But even Solder will be another year older. Making huge dollars. Thats why I am not huge on drafting a QB early.
But if Eli is benched again, he's done with the Giants after this season. The first benching can be attributed to the prior coaching staff, but another means the Giants are moving on at QB right now.
The irony is that the decision whether to bench Eli may be moot. He could easily end up on IR or at least miss a few games because of all the beatings he's taken, some of which are admittedly attributable to his complete immobility.
maybe we'll see Lauletta start the last week of the season, after a carefully curated press release with input from Mara, Tisch, Hanlon, DG, Shurmur, external public relations firms etc that stresses this is not a benching per se, but an opportunity to give Lauletta some playing time to evaluate him.
I just want to remind everybody that the grass isn't greener.
The mob on this board has gotten what they wanted every step of the way, and look how it's all turned out:
Fired Gilbride
Fired Flaherty
Fired Coughlin
Let Jerry Reese hire his own coach and drop 200 million in Free Agency
Changed to a WC style offense
Now it's time to run Manning out of town.
Let's go ahead and get that last bit over with and watch everybody run around like a chicken with it's head cut off with nobody left to blame.
This is what I am afraid of.... haha
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i would suggest the season is lost before we see lauletta. maybe 3-9 vs 1-6
It doesn't matter. What is the justification? He is being paid $23M to play. DG and Shurmur said he still has it. If they bench him, then they are trying to lose, which should get them fired.
When? In 2015, he broke the $20M in cash earnings barrier. He hasn't earned more than $18M since. I know math is hard for some so I'll help you out.
Eli Manning's Contract. - ( New Window )
the line will have to improve. at least gettleman seems to have nailed his first four picks.
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In comment 14101064 hassan said:
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i would suggest the season is lost before we see lauletta. maybe 3-9 vs 1-6
It doesn't matter. What is the justification? He is being paid $23M to play. DG and Shurmur said he still has it. If they bench him, then they are trying to lose, which should get them fired.
When? In 2015, he broke the $20M in cash earnings barrier. He hasn't earned more than $18M since. I know math is hard for some so I'll help you out. Eli Manning's Contract. - ( New Window )
he is obviously talking about his cap hit
I just want to remind everybody that the grass isn't greener.
The mob on this board has gotten what they wanted every step of the way, and look how it's all turned out:
Fired Gilbride
Fired Flaherty
Fired Coughlin
Let Jerry Reese hire his own coach and drop 200 million in Free Agency
Changed to a WC style offense
Now it's time to run Manning out of town.
Let's go ahead and get that last bit over with and watch everybody run around like a chicken with it's head cut off with nobody left to blame.
As a card carrying member of the mob -- our take was more:
- Replace Gilbride's offense with a more WCO offense that led to a statistical renaissance for Manning, but no impact on the W column
- Replace Coughlin, with a younger, fresher coach which did in fact nearly double the win column
- Let Reese spend ~110M on bolstering the defense which netted 2 premiere players and one bad investment in retrospect because of injury, and catapulted the defense from terrible to very good
- Gasp at how quickly the progress at QB, coaching, defense and the like absolutely explode like nothing we've ever seen before last year
- Recognized the Super Bowl era was over, the team needed deep cleansing at GM, coach, and players and that the team was not close enough to contention to expect a 37-year-old QB at the tail end of his career to succeed with the pieces in place
I just want to remind everybody that the grass isn't greener.
The mob on this board has gotten what they wanted every step of the way, and look how it's all turned out:
Fired Gilbride
Fired Flaherty
Fired Coughlin
Let Jerry Reese hire his own coach and drop 200 million in Free Agency
Changed to a WC style offense
Now it's time to run Manning out of town.
Let's go ahead and get that last bit over with and watch everybody run around like a chicken with it's head cut off with nobody left to blame.
I just want to remind everybody that the grass isn't greener.
The mob on this board has gotten what they wanted every step of the way, and look how it's all turned out:
Fired Gilbride
Fired Flaherty
Fired Coughlin
Let Jerry Reese hire his own coach and drop 200 million in Free Agency
Changed to a WC style offense
Now it's time to run Manning out of town.
Let's go ahead and get that last bit over with and watch everybody run around like a chicken with it's head cut off with nobody left to blame.
“The grass isn’t always greener”
Eli is 37. The grass is brown right now. What’s your suggestion?
“The grass isn’t always greener”
Eli is 37. The grass is brown right now. What’s your suggestion?
Britt and I are Eli's biggest supporters. Both of us wanted Darnold. It didnt happen. We need to move on. We both understand Eli is nearly done and we really dont have a backup plan. People will want to reach for a QB this draft, but that doesnt exactly solve anything either.
The O-line.
Fix the line, fix the team.
should the Giants not look at Lauletta, a totally fair and reasonable take, once post season is not possible?
What would the right moves be? when do the Giants play another qb or draft one?
what do they do to help Manning out next year? what extension would be reasonable for him?
For as much love as the DL gets, they have been underwhelming so far as well.
29th in rushing yards allowed
26th in rushing yards
5 sacks in 4 games.
This is suppose to be the strength of our team.
I think we'd all agree going back to 2016 ownership needed to operate with more conviction.
If they felt the Reese, Manning, Macadoo, Spags group was a winner -- they should have kept Coughlin and invested in the defense.
If they felt it was a loser, they should have cleaned house and given the Manning era one final shot with a clean slate.
The last 3 years have been an exercise in legacies and non-hurt feelings for this team.
The QB is the MAIN problem with this team. He makes it impossible for any O line to operate.
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The team has far more wrong with it than just the OL, including the QB position.
The QB is the MAIN problem with this team. He makes it impossible for any O line to operate.
lol. Love these posts.
But who knows with Mara. He created this drama and this current state of ineptitude; and he’s going to have to be the one who eventually reconciles that his boy Eli is due at the QB glue factory.
Based on how the team looks right now, I dare someone to look at the remaining schedule and find 2 or 3 wins, tops, btw.
I wouldn't be surprised if R. Shepard, Latimer, Simonson, Penny, Davis and Cooley are not on an NFL roster next year.
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In comment 14101478 JonC said:
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The team has far more wrong with it than just the OL, including the QB position.
The QB is the MAIN problem with this team. He makes it impossible for any O line to operate.
lol. Love these posts.
You must love the truth then.
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In comment 14101502 family progtitioner said:
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In comment 14101478 JonC said:
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The team has far more wrong with it than just the OL, including the QB position.
The QB is the MAIN problem with this team. He makes it impossible for any O line to operate.
lol. Love these posts.
You must love the truth then.
So its Eli's fault we cant run the ball either?
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The team has far more wrong with it than just the OL, including the QB position.
For as much love as the DL gets, they have been underwhelming so far as well.
29th in rushing yards allowed
26th in rushing yards
5 sacks in 4 games.
This is suppose to be the strength of our team.
Doesn’t JPP have four sacks himself for Tampa?
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In comment 14101505 dep026 said:
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In comment 14101502 family progtitioner said:
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In comment 14101478 JonC said:
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The team has far more wrong with it than just the OL, including the QB position.
The QB is the MAIN problem with this team. He makes it impossible for any O line to operate.
lol. Love these posts.
You must love the truth then.
So its Eli's fault we cant run the ball either?
No. This coach dosen't even really try, though.
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In comment 14101505 dep026 said:
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In comment 14101502 family progtitioner said:
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In comment 14101478 JonC said:
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The team has far more wrong with it than just the OL, including the QB position.
The QB is the MAIN problem with this team. He makes it impossible for any O line to operate.
lol. Love these posts.
You must love the truth then.
So its Eli's fault we cant run the ball either?
If they don't fear the passing game, it can make it harder to run the ball
If they don't fear the passing game, it can make it harder to run the ball
Cant you say if teams dont fear the run game, it makes the passing game harder?
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If they don't fear the passing game, it can make it harder to run the ball
Cant you say if teams dont fear the run game, it makes the passing game harder?
You can say that as well. But SB is making things happening. Eli is not.
I think its clear that teams do not have to game plan for Eli other than taking advantage of his weaknesses.
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“The grass isn’t always greener”
Eli is 37. The grass is brown right now. What’s your suggestion?
Britt and I are Eli's biggest supporters. Both of us wanted Darnold. It didnt happen. We need to move on. We both understand Eli is nearly done and we really dont have a backup plan. People will want to reach for a QB this draft, but that doesnt exactly solve anything either.
I mean it could solve the problem. A lot of people said we reached and overpaid for Eli and that worked out.
Nothing is guaranteed to succeed or fail
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In comment 14101505 dep026 said:
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In comment 14101502 family progtitioner said:
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In comment 14101478 JonC said:
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The team has far more wrong with it than just the OL, including the QB position.
The QB is the MAIN problem with this team. He makes it impossible for any O line to operate.
lol. Love these posts.
You must love the truth then.
So its Eli's fault we cant run the ball either?
People just can't stop living in the past. Why does everything have to be perfect for this guy? Thank you for the 2 Super bowls Eli (because clearly the defense had nothing to do with them), it's time to move forward.
People just can't stop living in the past. Why does everything have to be perfect for this guy? Thank you for the 2 Super bowls Eli (because clearly the defense had nothing to do with them), it's time to move forward.
What does running the ball have todo with the past?
lol
Except for the fact that both the GM and head coach vouched for Eli. Both experts said he's fine. For them to backtrack on that would mean they were completely wrong and that they have quit the season. They won't do either of those things.
What did you people expect? Reese left the cupboard almost bare. Romo was right- the middle of the line consists of a rookie, a bum and a guy who was allowed to leave because he wasn't very good. The right tackle is a turnstyle. We have no functional 3rd wideout (Latimer blows) and one functional tight end who is hurt (Ellison sucks and the 3rd te is a nobody). Shepard is a good possession guy who does not stretch the field. That's it; that's what we have.
Did any of you see Pitt and Baltimore last night? Baltimore has 3 very good wideouts and two tight ends that can catch and run along with two backs who can catch. Pitt has one great wideout and two other very good wideouts and two tight ends that can run and catch and a back who can catch.
You all were so dazzled by ODB and Sequan that you overlooked all of the other deficiencies. Take another look; there are quite a few of them.
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People just can't stop living in the past. Why does everything have to be perfect for this guy? Thank you for the 2 Super bowls Eli (because clearly the defense had nothing to do with them), it's time to move forward.
What does running the ball have todo with the past?
lol
It doesn't, but this idea that Eli is still ELITE (or ever was) and the only issue/problem with this team is the O-Line is comical.
It doesn't, but this idea that Eli is still ELITE (or ever was) and the only issue/problem with this team is the O-Line is comical.
Show one post where ANY poster said Eli was ELITE.
Just one.
Britt and I are Eli's biggest supporters. Both of us wanted Darnold. It didnt happen. We need to move on. We both understand Eli is nearly done and we really dont have a backup plan.
You both understand Eli is nearly done?? Define "nearly" as I am interested...
The O-line.
Fix the line, fix the team.
But come draft time..it goes "but but need bpa..not need!"
Hence draft wr, cb, de likes
They won't bench him until it's beyond a doubt he's done.
Yup. It made sense for both parties after last season. After the Redskins game last year you got the sense Eli felt it was over as well as the fans. Would have been a nice ending to an otherwise shit season.
Eli deserves better than how this will unfold. Because you are right, who are Eli’s friends in this team? These guys were in grade school when Eli was hoisting up Lombardi’s.
So, the mob mentality influences Eli again? This is exactly how franchises get stuck.
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You can be sure if something happens, Snee, O'Hara, and Diehl are going to make public issue of it and put their two cents in on how he's being mistreated. And I understand their point of view. But it makes it hard for Mara to make a decision he doesn't want to make in the first place.
So, the mob mentality influences Eli again? This is exactly how franchises get stuck.
People forget how weird and loud the outcry was when he got benched.
And Eli's display of tears didn't help matters.
- Option A: Outright bench Manning in his last season as a Giant
- Option B: Align on pulling Manning at a set time in a game and let the rookie get some burn (the fans and Manning already cried about this)
- Option C: Scheme up an even more ridiculous plot where Manning only gets pulled if the game is out-of-hand (like you can control this or something)
- Option D: Manning gets his teeth kicked-in because the line is dreadful, there is no depth at the skill positions, and Manning is old and slow, and gets hurt
You are completely right sadly.
Option E: Do this again next year and be totally surprised with nearly identical results
Coughlin had to go; he was the problem
Reese had to go; he was the problem
Eli now has to go because now he's the problem.
Once Eli is gone. whose going to be the next problem when this team is still a shit show.
Coughlin had to go; he was the problem
Reese had to go; he was the problem
Eli now has to go because now he's the problem.
Once Eli is gone. whose going to be the next problem when this team is still a shit show.
What the hell are you talking about?
Coughlin had to go; he was the problem
Reese had to go; he was the problem
Eli now has to go because now he's the problem.
Once Eli is gone. whose going to be the next problem when this team is still a shit show.
Probably can just stick with Eli for a bit until someone else blame-worthy comes around.
second choice is Coach Quinn...
1) Eli will be our starting QB this year and most likely next season as well
2) The Giants will take a QB in the first rd either in 2019 or 2020.
3) The Giants will also make the O-Line a priority in both of those drafts
4) They didn't like any of the QB's this year outside of probably Mayfield thus why none were chosen. Deal with it!
5) Eli is not why we are losing so spare everyone the mental gymnastics being done to blame him for every fucking loss. This was a 3 win team last year that has been massively overhauled. It's going to take some time for it all to jell.
Re the 300 yard games, QBs are throwing it 50-60 times per game, sometimes more. So throwing for 300 yards no longer comes close to what it meant when QBs were throwing it in the 30s.
So, Eli has had as good a year as many, if not most, imo