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A: Again, I mentioned it yesterday, we took some shots and they were playing in two-shell, so the ball gets checked down. Thats one reason for it. A: Yeah, we called them. There were deep routes called that we couldnt get the ball downfield, so you check it down. Then you move on. A: You call plays to be aggressive. If theyre there, you take your shots. Thats how you dictate. And if theyre not there, you check them down, and then the backs catch the ball and run with it. Youre talking about seven-eight yard gains, which is fine, so thats how you dictate. Then you make them defend those. Thats how you dictate, and then when you choose to run the ball, you make yardage. |
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Q: If the defense is taking away those deep routes, is it worth it at all to take a shot anyway, even though the coverage isnt ideal for that? A: That usually leads to bad plays. Theres ways to get explosive plays without throwing it deep. Its not like they all have to be go-routes or post-routes. Hitting guys on the move when they do play man, in zones you can still hit plays. In breaking routes and buying time. You can still hit explosive plays when teams are trying to take away the deep shots. |
We all want Eli to succeed. But it's a crucial distinction between what we want and what is. Last night on the MNF thread I got called a whiny bitch by a couple posters unwilling to accept that the Giants are shit, and should be called out for being shit at every possible opportunity. The last 6 years with this team have been dominated by words like "if", "hope", and "maybe". "If we get the OL fixed..." "I hope X matures..." "Maybe we get lucky with injuries..."
I'm tired of hearing those words associated with the Giants. I have no time or use for faith. I want a plan. I want to see a plan for how this horseshit is going to stop. But I'm not seeing a plan. I'm seeing more "if", "hope", and "maybe".
There's a great Churchill quote, "If you're going through hell, keep going." We're in hell right now, but we aren't going anywhere.
And the broncos lost.
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In comment 14103828 Britt in VA said:
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Ahh yes, much like my deslusional fantasy last year when I said the Giants starter week one would be Eli, while the rest all insisted he had played his final down/season as a Giant.
Did you also not spend the offseason bragging about how this was going to be Eli's revenge tour? Even dep distinguishes himself by saying at least he's not at your level of "fandom" when it comes to Eli, and he's right.
I defy you to find one other poster who believes right now that Eli is going to get an EXTENSION after this season. Try and find one.
I ignored this thread not because Britt started it, but because the 300+ posts. I knew it would be a bitch fest. But I'm bored and began to read. You want one poster? Here I am. I'm probably a bit further in Eli's camp than Britt. I've mentioned a possible extension last year, over the summer, and recently just today on another thread. You can even search through the archives when I advocated that Eli should hold out 2 years ago. Gatorade Dunk and I went back and forth and I said then that it was more likely that Eli gets a new contract. Gatorade Dunk bet me at the time (no specific terms other than a simple I'm right/wrong).
Ah, the good old days! D_D, we so rarely agree but I do always respect your take. Even though you're stone cold wrong about an extension.
And I respect you. Again not to underscore the premise of this thread (or not), but I have a strong suspicion that I'm right. DG loves Eli. When we were going back and forth then, Reese was in charge and I'll admit, it didn't look like my prediction would be correct.
The problem is that Eli needs the exact same supporting cast as a rookie QB would, but costs 5x what a rookie QB would cost. A franchise QB with a franchise QB price tag needs to be able to overcome some roster weakness created by his own cap number. Eli, seemingly, no longer can do that.
Hence why 2019 the giants should have a new QB. Ive felt that for awhile now.
Since we were right Elis last year or years here will be rooted in futility. Im losing hope this FO has any clue at all now.
Hence why 2019 the giants should have a new QB. Ive felt that for awhile now.
Dep: I think DG and PS thought the Oline would be improved substantially this year, finish the job next year. The efforts they've made have not borne fruit...yet.
They drafted the best guy in the draft, grabbed Lauletta, cut Webb and are likely heavily scouting QBs now. Unless they go ga-ga for Lauletta, one will be drafted next year or obtained from the Vikings.
Then you have Barkley & good young QB prospect.
Relax. It's gunna happen.
Dammit Jim! You realize that you and some other fans have now claimed they know more about scouting QBs and team building than DG & Co?
If serious it's laughable.
Logical takes, Mr. Christian? I'm about ready to get my prescription pad and write out scripts for 1/2 the folks on this thread!
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This has been classic BBI. On this thread you have Gene and me agreeing, Gatorade and Diver agreeing, and plenty of logical takes.
Logical takes, Mr. Christian? I'm about ready to get my prescription pad and write out scripts for 1/2 the folks on this thread!
If you've been watching this offense for the past few years; yes, completely logical takes based in reality.
This offense hasn't scored 30 point in 3 years. A league that is borderline BEGGING teams to score as many points as possible. Think about that.
Some folks need to open up their eyes. It's not 2011 anymore.
I think Eli's issues are 100% Oline related. For you to be right here, either Darnold or Rosen need to become franchise type QBs. (Please don't mention Allen or I will have lost respect for you.)
Him returning here I thought theyd be mediocre, whats the point? To win 6-8 games?
Blah doesnt matter anymore, were in shits creek now.
Someone said I was logical in regards to Eli. Oh fuck yeah!!! Ive turned the corner.
But one thing I will note. I went back and forth with a few people this thread and I noticed one thing. Lot of disagreeing.... nothing that came close to crossing the line or personal. Kudos to all.
If you've been watching this offense for the past few years; yes, completely logical takes based in reality.
This offense hasn't scored 30 point in 3 years. A league that is borderline BEGGING teams to score as many points as possible. Think about that.
Some folks need to open up their eyes. It's not 2011 anymore.
My take is that the Oline cannot pass or run block year after year. If the Giants need big bucks to fix it, yes, cut Eli next year and do whatever it takes to buy the fix with that savings. Then get some kid QB on the cheap. We are set for skill players on offense.
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This has been classic BBI. On this thread you have Gene and me agreeing, Gatorade and Diver agreeing, and plenty of logical takes.
Someone said I was logical in regards to Eli. Oh fuck yeah!!! Ive turned the corner.
But one thing I will note. I went back and forth with a few people this thread and I noticed one thing. Lot of disagreeing.... nothing that came close to crossing the line or personal. Kudos to all.
And Dep was accused of being logical regarding Manning.
Which to be fair, you've been pretty right on the mark the last several months.
Nothing's working much right now, but I have faith that things will work out.......maybe not this year, but in the next couple years. I'm not anxious to get into a head coach a year deal. I'm solidly behind this GM/HC team.
JMHO
+1
Agree with you Jim. Happy as hell to have SB as he is the goods and a nice asset going forward. But have always intimated the real restructuring of this team will not occur until we have a new guy under center.
2017 and 2018 seasons really have served no other purpose than drafting a few chess pieces for the next stage of this franchise. Other than that, it has been a huge waste of time...
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Giants coach Pat Shurmur to the teams website: Thats a false narrative that we werent trying to throw the ball down the field. Thats a false narrative, and if for some reason, they legislate against it, we have to check the ball down, keep the chains moving.
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Shurmur on how tightly teams cover Odell Beckham: You see how one question is totally opposite from the other? Just throw it to Odell, no matter what, but then hey, by the way, they were surrounding him.
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More Shurmur via @giantseisen: Just to chuck the ball down the field with no regard for how theyre covering you at times is reckless. It has to be strategic.
But Shurmur is coaching this. The answers above can't get anymore direct than that. Case Keenum is echoing similar statements on another team, which tells you that that's what he was coached to do as well.
It's a new offense, and that's what they're preaching. Right, wrong, or indifferent.
That's the offensive philosophy.
Hopefully it will open up as we move forward.
And when in his entire career has Manning been scared of forcing a throw. Give me a break. He's changed because the way he's being coached to play has changed.
He went from high risk, high reward offense to low risk, no reward offense.
Otherwise he is lying to himself...
Otherwise he is lying to himself...
Agreed.
I put the OBJ comment out there because right/wrong/indifferent Shurmur has to keep this team together and you can see it slipping already...
link?
Link - ( New Window )
Man, you gotta take it down a notch...
What the hell difference does this week's narrative (or any other week's) matter? Its like posters are criticizing you and our family the way you respond try to fend off these comments.
Shurmur's gameplan aside, Eli isn't at all comfortable anymore when he drops back to pass, and we don't need to go into the numerous reasons why that is valid or not. He simply is not. And its not helping the offense...
I think it's what Shurmur is coaching.
I don't think Eli's afraid to take the hit. I think after being sacked so many times, and in an attempt to reduce the number of sacks and fumbles, he throws the ball when he senses the pocket is starting to collapse, often to a checkdown. That, combined with the overall scheme of working short to intermediate passes and trying to get the ball out quicker to offset the rush is resulting in a dysfunctional offense.
See, this is what is frustrating....
It's not about Eli. It's about the quarterback, okay? It's about what the quarterback is being asked to do within the system, and I've posted a ton of stuff on this very thread about that. Case Keenum was doing the same things in Minny last year, saying the same things.
This is what Shurmur is coaching.
But it just seems now its all Eli or all someone else. This is an Eli problem. Its a Shurmur problem. Its an OL problem. And some can be attest to injuries (no EE last week), no reliable deep threat outside OBJ (Russell Shepard, really?).
Our problems wont be solved by changing one player or one coach or a few OL. We need EVERYTHING to change for the better.
We also missed Engram last week, up the seam.
I think it's what Shurmur is coaching.
Yes...lets blame Shurmur.
you crack me up...
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I don't agree that he won't throw it down field because he's scared.
I think it's what Shurmur is coaching.
Yes...lets blame Shurmur.
There is a lot of blame to go around which includes the HC and QB.
We also missed Engram last week, up the seam.
Generally or specifically, the Giants suck at offense. The Oline creates many problems of course...no question. But even when things are blocked up front, Eli and our playmakers make critical mistakes too when given the opportunity. And when they don't, sometimes Shurmur is not adapting to what the defense is doing.
they stink although have 12 games to improve...
But it just seems now its all Eli or all someone else. This is an Eli problem. Its a Shurmur problem. Its an OL problem. And some can be attest to injuries (no EE last week), no reliable deep threat outside OBJ (Russell Shepard, really?).
Our problems wont be solved by changing one player or one coach or a few OL. We need EVERYTHING to change for the better.
Agreed. We have too many problems that can't be fixed. That's why most logical people were ready to rebuild this offseason as opposed to trying to patchwork the deficiancies to appease all the giants fans that cried like little babies when Eli was benched. We had a chance and we passed. Instead we chose to try and go for it with a declining 37 year old that is playing scared and can't even navigate a pocket.
BTW who is he sitting with?
Don't forget, they used the tape from last year's Philly game too...
Locked on Giants- Eli Mannings checkdowns - ( New Window )