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| A: Again, I mentioned it yesterday, we took some shots and they were playing in two-shell, so the ball gets checked down. That’s one reason for it. A: Yeah, we called them. There were deep routes called that we couldn’t get the ball downfield, so you check it down. Then you move on. A: You call plays to be aggressive. If they’re there, you take your shots. That’s how you dictate. And if they’re not there, you check them down, and then the backs catch the ball and run with it. You’re talking about seven-eight yard gains, which is fine, so that’s how you dictate. Then you make them defend those. That’s how you dictate, and then when you choose to run the ball, you make yardage. |
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| Q: If the defense is taking away those deep routes, is it worth it at all to take a shot anyway, even though the coverage isn’t ideal for that? A: That usually leads to bad plays. There’s ways to get explosive plays without throwing it deep. It’s not like they all have to be go-routes or post-routes. Hitting guys on the move when they do play man, in zones you can still hit plays. In breaking routes and buying time. You can still hit explosive plays when teams are trying to take away the deep shots. |
I think we're in for another long, frustrating football season with more struggling offense and more goalpost moving to figure out new ways to claim it's not Eli's fault.. but I guess we'll see.
I think we're in for another long, frustrating football season with more struggling offense and more goalpost moving to figure out new ways to claim it's not Eli's fault.. but I guess we'll see.
See your making this ALL about Eli. And thats where I think this board needs to step back and realize we have a lot of problems. Draftign Darnold this year wasnt going to change the other narratives.
We havent had a free safety since Kenny Phillips.
We have 1 LB - again
We dont sack the QB or force turnovers.
We cant run the ball.... again.
Eli is being paid a ton of money, but so is Solder and Vernon and they havent come close to producing either.
We have one reliable corner.
Again, we arent very good for many reasons, one of them being the QB. But what are 95% of the post about it..... you guessed it.
Why can't we have similar expectations for Eli and that a veteran QB should be able to adapt quicker than say a journeyman QB (Keenum)?
Why can't we have similar expectations for Eli and that a veteran QB should be able to adapt quicker than say a journeyman QB (Keenum)?
Big Ben has been awful this year.
Attention: ELI IS NOT CAPABLE TO DO THAT. Therefore, you have to give him 4-5 seconds in the pocket to be effective. That isn’t possible.
Conclusion: either you get 2-3 stud lineman or get a more mobile qb
Big Ben has been awful this year.
Awful isn't the right word. He's had two poor games and two really good games.
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I know you like to always compare the 04 draft class. Big Ben gets a new OC, doesn't miss a stride. Whisenhunt leaves the chargers in 2013, Rivers keeps putting up numbers.
Why can't we have similar expectations for Eli and that a veteran QB should be able to adapt quicker than say a journeyman QB (Keenum)?
Big Ben has been awful this year.
Dep, awful? I know you have an agenda here, but come on.
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In comment 14103568 figgy2989 said:
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I know you like to always compare the 04 draft class. Big Ben gets a new OC, doesn't miss a stride. Whisenhunt leaves the chargers in 2013, Rivers keeps putting up numbers.
Why can't we have similar expectations for Eli and that a veteran QB should be able to adapt quicker than say a journeyman QB (Keenum)?
Big Ben has been awful this year.
Dep, awful? I know you have an agenda here, but come on.
Maybe not awful.... but he lost about 4 strides this year. He was terrible in cleveland and Sunday night. He had a good game against KC and TB - but his turnovers have been on the uptick and cost them in a lot of situations.
Mitch Trubisky, who "sucks" I was told, threw more than that in one half of football Sunday.
You guys are still over-estimating our personnel. We have no tight end at the moment, no 3rd wideout (GTFO with Latimer- he has sucked for going on 5 years now), one great wideout, a second wideout who is a possession receiver who scares no one down the field and 1 great running back.
Look at the receiving corps for the 4 teams that played Sunday night and Monday night. The wideouts go 4 deep, they have multiple backs and tight ends who can catch and they have multiple players with speed and quickness.
We are trying to run a modern NFL passing attack with two players when the successful teams have 6 or 7. Double or triple team ODB and SB and we are done- the other guys can be singled covered without risk.
Guess what, all qb's miss open guys. The issue is they will have guys get open again; we won't.
I hate watching Eli go out like this, but what can you do I just hope he can finish with a career record above five hundred.
As to why he is throwing short, it really is not rocket science. It is the same reason Barkley gets only ten rushes, they do not trust the o line to block. They can't run deep drops and they can't run the ball against a soft box. Everyone is backed up clogging all passing lanes. This has been going on for a long time now.
Also, the last coach conditioned Eli to get the ball out fast, get the ball the FUCK OUT to a receiver to mitigate the shit o line. That seems to be continuing now and that philosophy has fucked up Eli more than being hit.
You can't scheme around a league worst o line. They can't run with power and teams get consistent pressure with four. Also, the Giants have to be pacing the NFL in runs for loss. Big money man Solder whiffed and caused a tfl in this week's shit show and he is the best lineman on the team.
Eli is done here and this team sucks brutally. They do. I just hope this GM can find the next QB and bring in talent and that this coach is good. If not strap in for a decade of losing.
As to the original poster's point. It is interesting to see Keenum's comments and look for insight in this system. It changes nothing though, this team is the one every other team wants to play to get an easy W. Eli is part of it and this will be his last year in the league. Sucks, but what can you do.
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Eli has 4 TD passes in 4 games.
Mitch Trubisky, who "sucks" I was told, threw more than that in one half of football Sunday.
Tampa helped- their pass defense is non-existent. The Bears also have more weapons- they have a good TE, 4 functional receivers and two backs who can catch. Even a clown like Trubisky and be successful with that crew and a bad defense.
You guys are still over-estimating our personnel. We have no tight end at the moment, no 3rd wideout (GTFO with Latimer- he has sucked for going on 5 years now), one great wideout, a second wideout who is a possession receiver who scares no one down the field and 1 great running back.
Look at the receiving corps for the 4 teams that played Sunday night and Monday night. The wideouts go 4 deep, they have multiple backs and tight ends who can catch and they have multiple players with speed and quickness.
We are trying to run a modern NFL passing attack with two players when the successful teams have 6 or 7. Double or triple team ODB and SB and we are done- the other guys can be singled covered without risk.
Guess what, all qb's miss open guys. The issue is they will have guys get open again; we won't.
HJ45 and I have agreed about one time in the last 20 years -- this absolutely hits the nail on the head.
This offense has 2 great players, and 2-3 good-NFL caliber skill players. Behind that are a bunch of fringe players who no one would be surprised if they were out of the NFL next year.
The Giants are several players on offense from being good. That includes lineman, skill players and probably QB.
Eli is being instructed to keep this offense in neutral based on reading certain defenses that are presumably impenetrable. Including the 30th ranked pass defense of the Saints.
None of this has anything to do with Eli. The coaches think this gives the team the best chance to win, and Eli is jsut doing what he is coached to do.
As an aside, the Giants are 4-16 over their last 20 games and haven't scored 30+ points in several years.
do I have it?
Maybe (see my last paragraph). But at that point, why keep Eli around? The cap hit would have amounted to $11.5M according to OTC. You'd get money back, and could play a scrub QB (like Webb?) for a season, knowing the results would be terrible and you'd be back at the well in 2019 for a QB. What was the point of keeping Eli around and subjecting him and us to this shit? A combination of an immobile QB and a useless OL doesn't benefit anyone.
Cynically? $$$$ The fan backlash if they cut him and went with Webb/Lauletta would've been ridiculous.
If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, they were/are hoping to catch lightning in a bottle one last time.
Even the biggest Eli supporter (ok, maybe not dep/Britt), would've agreed back in March that he had 2, maybe 3, years left at a level that would put him at the bottom of the top 10 QBs (at best). So any decent GM would consider drafting his replacement, yet the Giants went with Barkley. Why?
IMO, they just didn't see a franchise QB in the Darnold/Allen/Rosen trio. We'll see if they were right, especially with Darnold playing for the Jets.
But now they suck and Eli has nobody to throw to.
Plus it's also the OL's fault.
Plus also Shurmur doesn't know what he's doing.
Plus Eli's missing only a few throws a game...I mean every QB does that, right!
Plus I heard the new equipment guy ordered the wrong size uniform for Eli this year and it's a size too small and it's really affecting Eli's ability to threw the deep out.
Maybe (see my last paragraph). But at that point, why keep Eli around? The cap hit would have amounted to $11.5M according to OTC. You'd get money back, and could play a scrub QB (like Webb?) for a season, knowing the results would be terrible and you'd be back at the well in 2019 for a QB. What was the point of keeping Eli around and subjecting him and us to this shit? A combination of an immobile QB and a useless OL doesn't benefit anyone. "
Just to clarify - Eli would have the same cap hit on or off the roster for this year. And thats before the $5mm roster bonus. Come draft day (to be precise the 3rd day of the league year) it would cost the Giants $5mm more to cut him than to keep him on.
Since there would be no financial benefit from parting ways, might as well trot hi out there and hope for the best.
I almost
But now they suck and Eli has nobody to throw to.
Plus it's also the OL's fault.
Plus also Shurmur doesn't know what he's doing.
Plus Eli's missing only a few throws a game...I mean every QB does that, right!
Plus I heard the new equipment guy ordered the wrong size uniform for Eli this year and it's a size too small and it's really affecting Eli's ability to threw the deep out.
At this point, the Giants could go 0-16 next season and Eli could throw 50 picks, and there'd still be at least two people here claiming it isn't Eli's fault and to give him a couple more years, he'll eventually get it!
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when all offseason we were raving about all the offensive weapons we have? ESPN ranked our offensive skill players 2nd in the league before the season started.
But now they suck and Eli has nobody to throw to.
Plus it's also the OL's fault.
Plus also Shurmur doesn't know what he's doing.
Plus Eli's missing only a few throws a game...I mean every QB does that, right!
Plus I heard the new equipment guy ordered the wrong size uniform for Eli this year and it's a size too small and it's really affecting Eli's ability to threw the deep out.
At this point, the Giants could go 0-16 next season and Eli could throw 50 picks, and there'd still be at least two people here claiming it isn't Eli's fault and to give him a couple more years, he'll eventually get it!
Lol. Your Ivy League degree isn’t helping you when reading my post. I have said a billion times this should be Eli’s last year. But keep it up.
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In comment 14103687 Tesla said:
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when all offseason we were raving about all the offensive weapons we have? ESPN ranked our offensive skill players 2nd in the league before the season started.
But now they suck and Eli has nobody to throw to.
Plus it's also the OL's fault.
Plus also Shurmur doesn't know what he's doing.
Plus Eli's missing only a few throws a game...I mean every QB does that, right!
Plus I heard the new equipment guy ordered the wrong size uniform for Eli this year and it's a size too small and it's really affecting Eli's ability to threw the deep out.
At this point, the Giants could go 0-16 next season and Eli could throw 50 picks, and there'd still be at least two people here claiming it isn't Eli's fault and to give him a couple more years, he'll eventually get it!
Lol. Your Ivy League degree isn’t helping you when reading my post. I have said a billion times this should be Eli’s last year. But keep it up.
Did I say you?
Maybe you should keep up.
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In comment 14103705 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 14103687 Tesla said:
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when all offseason we were raving about all the offensive weapons we have? ESPN ranked our offensive skill players 2nd in the league before the season started.
But now they suck and Eli has nobody to throw to.
Plus it's also the OL's fault.
Plus also Shurmur doesn't know what he's doing.
Plus Eli's missing only a few throws a game...I mean every QB does that, right!
Plus I heard the new equipment guy ordered the wrong size uniform for Eli this year and it's a size too small and it's really affecting Eli's ability to threw the deep out.
At this point, the Giants could go 0-16 next season and Eli could throw 50 picks, and there'd still be at least two people here claiming it isn't Eli's fault and to give him a couple more years, he'll eventually get it!
Lol. Your Ivy League degree isn’t helping you when reading my post. I have said a billion times this should be Eli’s last year. But keep it up.
Did I say you?
Maybe you should keep up.
In all sincerity, if you didn’t mean me I owe you an apology. I usually get lumped with Britt for being his biggest defender. While I still defend him, I try to be much more rational in discussions. And when people say I never blame him, I just get frustrated.
I know this should be eli’s Last year. But when I read some of the stuff from posters, it’s like they legitimately enjoy when he plays poorly.
Many of the posts you couch as wanting him to fail are guys baiting the defenders of the faith and you all can’t not take the bait.
Grab a parachute before they are gone...
But now they suck and Eli has nobody to throw to.
Plus it's also the OL's fault.
Plus also Shurmur doesn't know what he's doing.
Plus Eli's missing only a few throws a game...I mean every QB does that, right!
Plus I heard the new equipment guy ordered the wrong size uniform for Eli this year and it's a size too small and it's really affecting Eli's ability to threw the deep out.
It's a mardi gras after we lose, and a ghost town after we win.
It's been going on 7 seasons of excuses. I'm sure one of these years the decisions this organization makes and gets supported by a few on here will actually pay off and get them in going in the right direction again.
Any year now..
Oh, wait. Already did all of that.
What else can we change? Maybe it's the water in Metlife that the players drink. Maybe we can change the water supplier. Yeah, that's the ticket!
Even more entertaining if he's restructured and that restructure results in a one year extension, and the massive temper tantrum that will ensue.
That will bother a lot of you guys a lot more than him getting cut, traded, or extended will bother me.
However, to claim that the offense is checking down this often, against some low caliber defenses by design is like I said in my first post in the thread, reading into comments something you thought to be true and are twisting words to make it be true.
Shurmur simply said they have called deep pass plays, but they "haven't been there" or "we couldn't get the ball downfield". Ask Beckham privately and what do you think he tells you?
I'm not putting it all on Eli, but to say this is by design vs Eli not contributing to this situation is silly.
The people making excuses for Eli are just as irrational as those making it all about Eli.
I read someone on here claim that the Bears skill players were better than the Giants and that's why Trubisky threw 6 TD's on Sunday.
Allen Robinson
Taylor Gabriel
Anthony Miller
Jordan Howard
Tarik Cohen
Trey Burton
are why Mitch Trubisky threw all over the field Sunday and Eli with:
Odell Beckham
Sterling Shepard
Saquon Barkley
Evan Engram (until Sunday)
Wayne Gallman
don't have enough skill to help Eli.
holy shit.
Crazy concept, we know.
However, to claim that the offense is checking down this often, against some low caliber defenses by design is like I said in my first post in the thread, reading into comments something you thought to be true and are twisting words to make it be true.
Shurmur simply said they have called deep pass plays, but they "haven't been there" or "we couldn't get the ball downfield". Ask Beckham privately and what do you think he tells you?
I'm not putting it all on Eli, but to say this is by design vs Eli not contributing to this situation is silly.
The people making excuses for Eli are just as irrational as those making it all about Eli.
I read someone on here claim that the Bears skill players were better than the Giants and that's why Trubisky threw 6 TD's on Sunday.
Allen Robinson
Taylor Gabriel
Anthony Miller
Jordan Howard
Tarik Cohen
Trey Burton
are why Mitch Trubisky threw all over the field Sunday and Eli with:
Odell Beckham
Sterling Shepard
Saquon Barkley
Evan Engram (until Sunday)
Wayne Gallman
don't have enough skill to help Eli.
holy shit.
ha! - that one caught my eye as well. I had to look up who this world beater the bears have at TE, was it some rookie stud I never heard of? Nope, a guy in his 4th year with 8-- career receiving yards.
It didn't have to become this. I'll let people re-read the thread to see what steered it in that direction.
Even more entertaining if he's restructured and that restructure results in a one year extension, and the massive temper tantrum that will ensue.
That will bother a lot of you guys a lot more than him getting cut, traded, or extended will bother me.
Dude, you need to take a break and step away from the computer. Your actually expressing your delusional fantasies about the Giants extending Eli after this season....its time to take a little break.
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but it's going to be entertaining yet again this offseason when Eli is not cut, or traded.
Even more entertaining if he's restructured and that restructure results in a one year extension, and the massive temper tantrum that will ensue.
That will bother a lot of you guys a lot more than him getting cut, traded, or extended will bother me.
Dude, you need to take a break and step away from the computer. Your actually expressing your delusional fantasies about the Giants extending Eli after this season....its time to take a little break.
Ahh yes, much like my deslusional fantasy last year when I said the Giants starter week one would be Eli, while the rest all insisted he had played his final down/season as a Giant.
It didn't have to become this. I'll let people re-read the thread to see what steered it in that direction.
Interesting. Just a week ago you started a thread celebrating a win over the Texans baiting everyone on the board who shares a different opinion than yourself; proclaiming that Eli/the offense are back and this and that.
Fast forward just one week later; and we need a new theory on why our offense couldn't beat the worst pass defense in the league, at home in perfect weather.
I guess alot can change in a week.
here are the facts
the offense sucks
the scheming sucks
the line sucks
and the quarterback sucks
there... can we move on to new topics now-- tx
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to show a correlation between the offensive philosophy in Minnesota, and the offensive philosophy here.
It didn't have to become this. I'll let people re-read the thread to see what steered it in that direction.
Interesting. Just a week ago you started a thread celebrating a win over the Texans baiting everyone on the board who shares a different opinion than yourself; proclaiming that Eli/the offense are back and this and that.
Fast forward just one week later; and we need a new theory on why our offense couldn't beat the worst pass defense in the league, at home in perfect weather.
I guess alot can change in a week.
I read the comments from the QB and the coach. Then compared them to the comments from the last QB in the system.
I know, much more irrational approach.
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In comment 14103810 Britt in VA said:
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but it's going to be entertaining yet again this offseason when Eli is not cut, or traded.
Even more entertaining if he's restructured and that restructure results in a one year extension, and the massive temper tantrum that will ensue.
That will bother a lot of you guys a lot more than him getting cut, traded, or extended will bother me.
Dude, you need to take a break and step away from the computer. Your actually expressing your delusional fantasies about the Giants extending Eli after this season....its time to take a little break.
Ahh yes, much like my deslusional fantasy last year when I said the Giants starter week one would be Eli, while the rest all insisted he had played his final down/season as a Giant.
that was not exactly going out on a limb. All you had to do was look at his contract and dead cap figure.
I don't remember a ton of people saying Eli played his last game outside of the week between when he was benched and Mac got fired.
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In comment 14103810 Britt in VA said:
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Ahh yes, much like my deslusional fantasy last year when I said the Giants starter week one would be Eli, while the rest all insisted he had played his final down/season as a Giant.
Did you also not spend the offseason bragging about how this was going to be Eli's revenge tour? Even dep distinguishes himself by saying at least he's not at your level of "fandom" when it comes to Eli, and he's right.
I defy you to find one other poster who believes right now that Eli is going to get an EXTENSION after this season. Try and find one.
Like everyone else on this thread has said. It's just more excuses. I'm sure there will be more next season as well when we're working on 8 seasons of losing and failure.
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In comment 14103826 Tesla said:
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In comment 14103810 Britt in VA said:
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Ahh yes, much like my deslusional fantasy last year when I said the Giants starter week one would be Eli, while the rest all insisted he had played his final down/season as a Giant.
Did you also not spend the offseason bragging about how this was going to be Eli's revenge tour? Even dep distinguishes himself by saying at least he's not at your level of "fandom" when it comes to Eli, and he's right.
I defy you to find one other poster who believes right now that Eli is going to get an EXTENSION after this season. Try and find one.
Sounds like a challenge... I could, but I don't want to entertain you.
Britt, I can appreciate your love for Eli. I too am a huge fan, but you are letting that fandom blind you from reality. Great QB's dont lose as much as he has in recent years. Great QB's don't fail to score 30 pts for 3 seasons. Great QB's don't continue to make poor decisions and poor throws againts poor defenses.
The defense of Eli is getting crazy now. Multiple coordinators, multiple coaches, now multiple GM's, a slew of WR's/TE's/RB's and OL have all been to blame and yet here Eli is blameless to some. Its hard to fathom. Kinda shocking. I'm about as big of a fan as anyone else(outside BRitt and dep) and I can see it. He is never going to win on the Giants. I said it last year and I'll keep saying it. It's over.