I've never attended a game before where fans of both sides talked about the refereeing instead of the plays being made.
I'm walking out of the stadium to Panther fans actually saying we got fucked. That just doesn't happen.
Each week when officiating is discussed, people actually have the nerve to say that they don't impact the outcome of games. And let's be clear - that doesn't mean they cause a loss or a win - that they impact the outcome - today they flat-out decided the game
I felt like an idiot a couple times in the stands. Our section starting celebrating when McCaffery was stopped on 3rd down and Cam clocked the ball. We thought he screwed up because from where we were, McCaffery didn't look anywhere close to getting the first down.
I actually take more issue with that call - because there's supposedly a system in place to review bad calls, and that was missed - blatantly missed. I don't think the Panthers kick it there either because there's a 10 second runoff and 4th down with hardly anytime left.
But let's look how we got fucked:
- 4th down pass breakup called as defensive hold. It's tough to see that from the stands, but the replay at the stadium didn't show anything
- Facemask penalty picked up. Maybe it wasn't a facemask, but here's the thing. 3rd week in a row there's been a conference about a facemask or horse collar. All 3 calls have gone against us.
-Facemask penalty on Shepard not called. Very obvious. Two plays later Eli throws a pick
- Fumble recovered out of bounds. Not only did this give the Panthers a 1st down, but it was originally called a recovery by the Giants until a conference - then they ruled him out. No need to even go to replay
- Roughing the passer. This is the other time I felt like an idiot. We already had the hold in the pocket, and it looked like they called intentional grounding since it was thrown after Cam was already down, and threw his arms up towards Boger
- I can't even fathom the hit on Funchess. The ref doesn't throw the flag until Funchess is one the ground holding his head. Then we saw the replay and the Panthers fans thought the call was pass interference. You could audibly hear the stadium boo after that call. Ginat fans represented well today
- I don't know if people realize this, but they threw a flag for illegal contact with a little over 2 minutes left. And as he ran in, another ref told him to pick it up. That would've been such a horseshit call.
Boger's crew should be fired. Bottom line. They failed in all aspects of calling the game, both objectively or correctly.
And it is completely unacceptable to not review a failed 3rd down play, that was blatantly short.
We were fucked. Absolutely fucked, and I hope the team accrues as many fines as possible to highlight the shit show. Each week a team is royally fucked by the random Wheel of Incompetence
How did one ref not see that Collins was going for the ball and the receiver was hit by his shoulder pad? Pathetic
we can't assume he'd miss it, but for all we know Rivera might try to get the 1st down there. I don't think his preference was to try ya 63 yarder.
I doubt I’ll watch much more football this year unless the game is on nationally. I won’t even steal a feed. Why. To be watch a crappy product that’s getting worse every game ?
I blamed the Mara’s for this FMIC last week. IIRC I think you thought I was nuts. I stand by that. They are supposedly respected owners in this league. When people like the Mara’s not only never complain or stand up to bad officiating but they support these rules.
I will longer build my life around football on Sundays. They product gets worse every year. It’s aggravating. This isn’t about the Giants. Bad officiating cost all teams games and is making football unwatchable.
On the Collins penalty, the ref saw Funchess was hurt and holding his head and then decided to throw the flag AFTER seeing the reaction. Same on the roughing the passser. Boger saw Cam plead for the flag and then threw it.
On the illegal contact flag that was picked up, the ball was incomplete and almost at rest in the end zone when he flung the flag up the field.
Then there are the rules that simply can't be called consistently. What I liked the most that you said is the hope that the team and individuals get fined for their comments (and hopefully continued comments) to bring more attention to this. And, no, I won't feel any better if the league comes out and apologizes because we will still have the loss.
People need to realize that saying this doesn't mean we played a perfect game. Yes, we made mistakes and couldn't tackle for shit. But, even with all that, this team fought back and got not 1 but 2 scores inside the last 5 minutes to take the lead. They fought all game and the offense finally broke through. Then what happens? The refs make not one, but a few BS calls that afforded the Panthers the opportunity to attempt the FG. Sure, Gano still had to hit a fucking 63 yard FG, so it wasn't handed to them. But, the win was sure as shit ripped away from the Giants.
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To understand how they all went against the Giants. The penalty on Collins defies logic
How did one ref not see that Collins was going for the ball and the receiver was hit by his shoulder pad? Pathetic
What you're missing is they saw contact to his helmet by Thomas.
Problem was it was incidental as he was clearly leading with both of his hands/arms outstretched. Any helmet contact there was incidental and not what the rule is meant to guard against. In fact wording has been added to allow for incidental contact when a defender isn't leading with his helmet.
NYG certainly left plays on the field. But the game should be won or lost by players & coaches as much as possible. And any time refs force either team to have to make 1-2-3 extra plays than they should have it's not ideal even if it's reality
IMO if they really wanted to make fair calls they should make MOST calls from a TV studio. But I think most would hate this at least today
When you see video of Clay Matthews bearing his weight on the hand that he put on the turf to brace himself, it should be easy to overturn a game-deciding call. When we are called for a bullshit roughness call, replay should be able to show it was a clear mistake.
But replay isn't used to overturn refs judgement calls. Except in all the cases where it is!! The only difference is really one of semantics - you can't review penalties - except those ones you can!!
It is so convoluted
Yup.
When you see video of Clay Matthews bearing his weight on the hand that he put on the turf to brace himself, it should be easy to overturn a game-deciding call. When we are called for a bullshit roughness call, replay should be able to show it was a clear mistake.
But replay isn't used to overturn refs judgement calls. Except in all the cases where it is!! The only difference is really one of semantics - you can't review penalties - except those ones you can!!
It is so convoluted
smshmth8690 : 8:09 pm : link : reply
When NYG seemingly stopped Carolina on 3rd down, you posted that you thought Newton fucked up and clocked the ball on 4th down. I'm assuming no officials signaled first down either? This makes the call even more egregious, because as Eman11 posted, the 4th and 1 graphic was up on the screen.
As we were celebrating, the one guy said - "Shit they gave him the first" and as I looked up, the chain guys were still running to get in place.
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our lack of a pass rush was really evident today.
I don't know if they were spying Cam, but we weren't getting through even when we dialed up blitzes.
This was a good model to use going forward for Eli too. He had people in his face, but he had enough time to go vertical. He seemed like he was getting hit often just after releasing the ball while Cam wasn't often touched.
All the talk surrounding team needs for NYG is QB/OL....I think edge rusher is just as big of a need, if not bigger.
And yes...if NYG is sitting at the top of the 2019 Draft, there are 2-3 guys that may be in consideration over a QB
That’s what they are paying Vernon for. But he can’t stay on field
It didn't even look close to being a 1st down, so I don't know how it wasn't.
BUT LET'S FACE IT, THE DEFENSE HAS SCREWED THE POOCH IN THE FOURTH THIS SEASON......
It didn't even look close to being a 1st down, so I don't know how it wasn't.
I hear ya man and I just have to let it go. The more I think about it the more pissed I get and in the end it doesn't matter now. What's done is done.
I only hope the league looks at what happened so we don't have to go through that kind of thing again. Same with the non trip end zone call last week.
2) Today, NYG got the short end of the stick with multiple calls
3) But I think it's pointless to discuss because it goes both ways. Every team gets lucky here and there. Every team gets unlucky here and there. However each individual fan base always thinks their team gets it worse than others. Similar to injury-talk.
4) The point remains...Rosas kick out of bounds. Missed tackles left and right. 2 bad INTs thrown by Manning. Zero pass rush by NYG. Good teams overcome bad refs, and NYG had multiple chances to do so. They failed.
For the sake of the NFL "it happens both ways is NOT good enough."
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1) The argument that refs impact wins and losses IS valid. 100%
2) Today, NYG got the short end of the stick with multiple calls
3) But I think it's pointless to discuss because it goes both ways. Every team gets lucky here and there. Every team gets unlucky here and there. However each individual fan base always thinks their team gets it worse than others. Similar to injury-talk.
4) The point remains...Rosas kick out of bounds. Missed tackles left and right. 2 bad INTs thrown by Manning. Zero pass rush by NYG. Good teams overcome bad refs, and NYG had multiple chances to do so. They failed.
For the sake of the NFL "it happens both ways is NOT good enough."
For the sake of the NFL "it happens both ways" is NOT good enough.
So if a Giants fan bitches about Clay Mathews getting jobbed, that makes me a loser?
None of us play in these games. We can asses and critique whatever we want. Saying “make plays” doesn’t make you a tough guy, doesn’t impact the game, and provides nothing on threads.
I swear, if the NFL was actually TRYING to ruin themselves, they couldn't do a better job than they are now. It's like they sit around a boardroom and say, "What else can we do to turn fans off?" "I know, let's add another commerical!" "Yeah, and let's make it a PF penalty when no one actually gets hit!"
At least the game was exciting today. And the Giants did enough keystone cops stuff to not be overly sympathetic. I also am very wary of sounding like Redskins fans and blaming the refs for every loss.
But the Giants got screwed today.
Very nice breakdown Fatman.
Even outside of the robbery of today, the NFL has completely ruined their games and product. There is zero flow or momentum to games anymore. Even when a big play occurs, fans, players and coaches are bracing for a flag. I can’t even fathom how badly they have screwed things up.
They lost a ton of veteran refs this year which has taken a toll. But something needs to be done. I’m a die hard sports fan and love the Giants, but this has become hard to watch. They have ruined the product.
We screwed today and it was worth 2 games??
But based on what we saw on TV, it would have been awfully difficult to overturn that call. The ball was pretty much touching the yellow first down line on the screen.
In comment 14112605 B in ALB said:
Olivier Vernon will be back by Week 13.
VinegarPeppers said:
And on IR by game 14.
Nice, I can't wait! So we're sure to lead the league in QB pressures Week 13.
On the illegal contact flag that was picked up, the ball was incomplete and almost at rest in the end zone when he flung the flag up the field.
This was the one at the end when the flag was thrown 5 seconds after the ball had already bounced in the end zone? I was incredulous.
As the ref ran in, another one stepped up and made an incomplete sign and they picked up the flag for no illegal contact.
Seemed almost like the one guy was saying "That's too blatant to make up!!" :)
So many on this board talking about “blow up the team and start from scratch” tonight, and while that’s already ridiculous to say when we’re only 5 games into a completely new regime, i’d also say that if just a couple of those awful calls last week and this week had actually been gotten right the Giants would be 3-2 right now. Fans tend to focus on the negative plays by players when their team loses and the positive plays when they win, but the reality is that every team has good and bad plays every game and the outcome often comes down to just 2-3 plays going a particular way. It sucks when those 2-3 plays have nothing to do with the teams performance and everything to do with the officials. All I know is despite imperfect play this team HAS played well enough to win the last 2 weeks and would have won if the officiating was even close to being even. It’s not just 1-2 bad calls/no-calls, it’s been more like at least 5 or 6 in both games with every single bad call going in favor of the opposing team, and the calls have come at pivotal points in the game when it is too late for the team to overcome the shitty officiating.
Couldn't really think of any others.
It didn't even look close to being a 1st down, so I don't know how it wasn't.
“We need better referees.”
I don’t know how these guys don’t lose their mind in the best of battle and knock one of these shit heads out. I’m sorry. Today it would have been justified.
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the spot can be challenged, but it has to be a booth review.
It didn't even look close to being a 1st down, so I don't know how it wasn't.
IT can't be challenged inside 2 minutes, so as you point out, it has to come from the booth. How did they not review it?!
If the Giants just had a couple fewer self-inflicted stupid they would've won the game anyway.
That doesn't take into account other bad calls on drives that we held them.
I'll wonder too, if Shepard gets a facemask call, the giants have a 1st and 10 from the 35 yard line, and perhaps they aren't calling the same play that Eli threw the INT on. Bad calls even impact the flow and playcalling.
That doesn't take into account other bad calls on drives that we held them.
I'll wonder too, if Shepard gets a facemask call, the giants have a 1st and 10 from the 35 yard line, and perhaps they aren't calling the same play that Eli threw the INT on. Bad calls even impact the flow and playcalling.
Yup..this