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Please don't ever argue that refs don't impact outcomes!!

FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 7:21 pm
I've never attended a game before where fans of both sides talked about the refereeing instead of the plays being made.

I'm walking out of the stadium to Panther fans actually saying we got fucked. That just doesn't happen.

Each week when officiating is discussed, people actually have the nerve to say that they don't impact the outcome of games. And let's be clear - that doesn't mean they cause a loss or a win - that they impact the outcome - today they flat-out decided the game

I felt like an idiot a couple times in the stands. Our section starting celebrating when McCaffery was stopped on 3rd down and Cam clocked the ball. We thought he screwed up because from where we were, McCaffery didn't look anywhere close to getting the first down.

I actually take more issue with that call - because there's supposedly a system in place to review bad calls, and that was missed - blatantly missed. I don't think the Panthers kick it there either because there's a 10 second runoff and 4th down with hardly anytime left.

But let's look how we got fucked:
- 4th down pass breakup called as defensive hold. It's tough to see that from the stands, but the replay at the stadium didn't show anything
- Facemask penalty picked up. Maybe it wasn't a facemask, but here's the thing. 3rd week in a row there's been a conference about a facemask or horse collar. All 3 calls have gone against us.
-Facemask penalty on Shepard not called. Very obvious. Two plays later Eli throws a pick
- Fumble recovered out of bounds. Not only did this give the Panthers a 1st down, but it was originally called a recovery by the Giants until a conference - then they ruled him out. No need to even go to replay
- Roughing the passer. This is the other time I felt like an idiot. We already had the hold in the pocket, and it looked like they called intentional grounding since it was thrown after Cam was already down, and threw his arms up towards Boger
- I can't even fathom the hit on Funchess. The ref doesn't throw the flag until Funchess is one the ground holding his head. Then we saw the replay and the Panthers fans thought the call was pass interference. You could audibly hear the stadium boo after that call. Ginat fans represented well today

- I don't know if people realize this, but they threw a flag for illegal contact with a little over 2 minutes left. And as he ran in, another ref told him to pick it up. That would've been such a horseshit call.

Boger's crew should be fired. Bottom line. They failed in all aspects of calling the game, both objectively or correctly.

And it is completely unacceptable to not review a failed 3rd down play, that was blatantly short.

We were fucked. Absolutely fucked, and I hope the team accrues as many fines as possible to highlight the shit show. Each week a team is royally fucked by the random Wheel of Incompetence
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/7/2018 7:26 pm : link
Given your posting history with respect to referees and the opponent and the outcome today, I was actually worried about your health today. Glad to see you made it.
Don't tell the tough guy  
B in ALB : 10/7/2018 7:29 pm : link
No-nonsense white knights on BBI that, FM.

It's all the player's fault. Fire Eli!
Fats  
Bill in TN : 10/7/2018 7:30 pm : link
Absolutely accurate and objective assessment of the key game issues.
If more people would post rational and fact-based opinions, this would be a much better forum for discussion.
Eric..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 7:31 pm : link
as I see games across the league, this isn't a problem specific to the Giants.

I keep hearing from more and more people that they are losing their passion for the game. It is like the league has a new rule each year that they just can't call consistently. The catch rule, the tuck rule, now this bullshit targeting rule.

When a guy goes for a ball, makes contact with the ball BEFORE the WR and is called for a personal foul - the game is fucked.

When a QB is sacked to end a game and the ref calls weight being put on the QB, they've decided that game. It isn't people making plays anymore and people are noticing more often than ever.
Eric  
gidiefor : Mod : 10/7/2018 7:32 pm : link
he won the battle of no customized jersey's today -- so he's got some satisfaction to soothe his soul -- but maybe he should try to loosen that ban and help us turn the tide -- it seems that the more he clamps down on jerseys the worse we do and the more the refs f__k the Giants
One common denominator in our losing  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/7/2018 7:32 pm : link
Eli!
FatMan in Charlotte  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/7/2018 7:35 pm : link
I hear ya... you're preaching to the choir.

I swear, if the NFL was actually TRYING to ruin themselves, they couldn't do a better job than they are now. It's like they sit around a boardroom and say, "What else can we do to turn fans off?" "I know, let's add another commerical!" "Yeah, and let's make it a PF penalty when no one actually gets hit!"

At least the game was exciting today. And the Giants did enough keystone cops stuff to not be overly sympathetic. I also am very wary of sounding like Redskins fans and blaming the refs for every loss.

But the Giants got screwed today.
the certainly do impact games......  
BillKo : 10/7/2018 7:36 pm : link
...anyone who says they don't is doing "coach speak".

Giants certainly made mistakes today, but guess what, so did the Panthers. But the refs helped compound things with some horrid decisions.

Anyone looking at this game, from a impartial standpoint, would say the Giants got the short end of the stick on officiating today.
RE: Don't tell the tough guy  
BigBlue4You09 : 10/7/2018 7:36 pm : link
In comment 14112347 B in ALB said:
Quote:
No-nonsense white knights on BBI that, FM.

It's all the player's fault. Fire Eli!


Yup GoTerps wonít have any of it!
Well  
Sy'56 : 10/7/2018 7:36 pm : link
1) The argument that refs impact wins and losses IS valid. 100%

2) Today, NYG got the short end of the stick with multiple calls

3) But I think it's pointless to discuss because it goes both ways. Every team gets lucky here and there. Every team gets unlucky here and there. However each individual fan base always thinks their team gets it worse than others. Similar to injury-talk.

4) The point remains...Rosas kick out of bounds. Missed tackles left and right. 2 bad INTs thrown by Manning. Zero pass rush by NYG. Good teams overcome bad refs, and NYG had multiple chances to do so. They failed.
Bravo FMIC  
Eman11 : 10/7/2018 7:37 pm : link
All of your points are right on except maybe the fumble touched out of bounds. The one ref there was running in from the get go saying it was touched by the Giant player while he was out of bounds.

The rest are totally spot on and all critical calls but none more so than the McCaffrey run that was short of the 1st down. I too thought the game was over when Cam spiked it thinking it was 4th down.

Here's something to piss you off even more....I know at the game you weren't privy to this but on TV Fox had him short and had a 4th and 1 graphic on the bottom of the screen. How that wasn't a booth review is beyond me, and I have no doubt if it was outside of two minutes, Shurnur would've challenged it.

I can accept losses, and be pissed about them but this one feels like it was taken from us and I'm still fuming about all the calls you mentioned but especially the non booth review.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/7/2018 7:37 pm : link
Personally, I think we're all a bit numb to this. Enough.
If it were..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 7:39 pm : link
simply a great game - I'd love it. Went to Clemson-Cuse last week and it was a great game that Cuse lost because they couldn't stop the run and Clemson made plays.

It was no fun today watching the team claw and fight, make several key stops get overturn. Come back and take the lead - only to have a questionable non-call at the end lead to the FG.

It was a close game, but I don't consider it a good game. But I'm sure the NFL does which is part of the problem.
it was poorly officiated  
UESBLUE : 10/7/2018 7:40 pm : link
both teams made big plays and they made the last one. 1-4 is all that matters...
Sy..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 7:42 pm : link
our lack of a pass rush was really evident today.

I don't know if they were spying Cam, but we weren't getting through even when we dialed up blitzes.

This was a good model to use going forward for Eli too. He had people in his face, but he had enough time to go vertical. He seemed like he was getting hit often just after releasing the ball while Cam wasn't often touched.
Just tired of losing  
Marty866b : 10/7/2018 7:42 pm : link
Enough with the excuses. IF the defense makes one play on the final possession, we win despite the refs. Bad teams find ways to lose.
RE: ...  
Eman11 : 10/7/2018 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14112363 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Personally, I think we're all a bit numb to this. Enough.


Speak for yourself Eric. I'm not numb to this at all and it doesn't sound like FMIC is either. It stings like hell and so did the non trip in the end zone last week among others.
The defense..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 7:44 pm : link
made a 3rd down stop that would've put the Panthers in a hell of a situation.

They made the play - the refs taketh away
RE: Sy..  
Sy'56 : 10/7/2018 7:44 pm : link
In comment 14112375 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
our lack of a pass rush was really evident today.

I don't know if they were spying Cam, but we weren't getting through even when we dialed up blitzes.

This was a good model to use going forward for Eli too. He had people in his face, but he had enough time to go vertical. He seemed like he was getting hit often just after releasing the ball while Cam wasn't often touched.


All the talk surrounding team needs for NYG is QB/OL....I think edge rusher is just as big of a need, if not bigger.

And yes...if NYG is sitting at the top of the 2019 Draft, there are 2-3 guys that may be in consideration over a QB
RE: Just tired of losing  
BigBlue4You09 : 10/7/2018 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14112376 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Enough with the excuses. IF the defense makes one play on the final possession, we win despite the refs. Bad teams find ways to lose.


Youíre fucking joking right? You just contradicted yourself.
Fat Man  
Marty866b : 10/7/2018 7:46 pm : link
The Panthers had enough time to rush their field goal unit on the filed for a field goal the same distance as the one made if it was 4th down. Yeah, it would have been more rushed but we can't assume he would have missed it.
yes, the NFL officiating is really bad  
LG in NYC : 10/7/2018 7:47 pm : link
Does anyone actually argue it isn't?

or is it that people get tired of hearing the same BBIers focus on it every week, seemingly suggesting it is why we constantly lose.

RE: The defense..  
Eman11 : 10/7/2018 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14112378 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
made a 3rd down stop that would've put the Panthers in a hell of a situation.

They made the play - the refs taketh away
h

Two of them in fact. The one on the McCaffrey run and the bogus personal foul against the defenseless receiver on Collins/Thomas.
I wouldnít argue that  
HomerJones45 : 10/7/2018 7:52 pm : link
I would argue that continual complaining about officiating every game by 30 and 40 somethings is indicative of either mental health issues or gambling problems.

And the HC who starts griping about officiating might as well get his resume ready.

We fucked ourselves- screwed up punt returns, picks, blown assignments and lack of talent.
It s hard  
joeinpa : 10/7/2018 7:53 pm : link
To understand how they all went against the Giants. The penalty on Collins defies logic

RE: The defense..  
Rjanyg : 10/7/2018 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14112378 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
made a 3rd down stop that would've put the Panthers in a hell of a situation.

They made the play - the refs taketh away


This. Don't know how they called that a first down without measuring. Total bullshit
Thank you FMiC  
mrvax : 10/7/2018 7:55 pm : link
because if you're insane, so am I.
Hear Hear Fatman  
Matt in SGS : 10/7/2018 7:56 pm : link
The NFL is now so watered down that there isn't much difference between teams as in years past. So the officials tip the balance more than ever before. And with the speed of the game and constant screwing with the rules from League Office, refs are chucking flags all over and anything that appears to be a hard hit gets a flag.

I mentioned in the game thread that I hoped Shurmur would go almost an NBA coach style and give a Phil Jackson-esque bashing of the officials in the post game. Yes, you'll get a fine, but they need to shine a light on this shit.

I know, losers lament, blah blah blah. But the past 2 weeks have been so egregious that it needs to be put on blast. I'm not looking for any make up bullshit calls either, just call a fair fucking game and we haven't seen it.
I do not believe the penalty was on Collins  
LG in NYC : 10/7/2018 7:56 pm : link
it was on Thomas, who technically did knock heads with the receiver. I think it was a BS call but just saw another one in the Eagles/Vikes game. Defender going for the INT and inadvertently knocked heads with the receiver and they threw the flag.
RE: It s hard  
Rjanyg : 10/7/2018 7:56 pm : link
In comment 14112394 joeinpa said:
Quote:
To understand how they all went against the Giants. The penalty on Collins defies logic


How did one ref not see that Collins was going for the ball and the receiver was hit by his shoulder pad? Pathetic
Marty..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 7:58 pm : link
I don't know what the Panthers would've done. I'm not sure how much time was left, but on a replay review, there would've been a 10 second runoff and 4th down and the clock would start on the whistle.

we can't assume he'd miss it, but for all we know Rivera might try to get the 1st down there. I don't think his preference was to try ya 63 yarder.
The penalty call  
Marty866b : 10/7/2018 7:59 pm : link
Was on Thomas, not Collins. It was one of the worst calls in the history of the league. The NFL should be embarrassed when they review this play.
The real question is do we has fans stop  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/7/2018 7:59 pm : link
Watching or watch less? Billionaire owners only care about lawsuits



I doubt Iíll watch much more football this year unless the game is on nationally. I wonít even steal a feed. Why. To be watch a crappy product thatís getting worse every game ?

I blamed the Maraís for this FMIC last week. IIRC I think you thought I was nuts. I stand by that. They are supposedly respected owners in this league. When people like the Maraís not only never complain or stand up to bad officiating but they support these rules.

I will longer build my life around football on Sundays. They product gets worse every year. Itís aggravating. This isnít about the Giants. Bad officiating cost all teams games and is making football unwatchable.

What should bother people..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 8:01 pm : link
is a lot of these flags were thrown late. Very late.

On the Collins penalty, the ref saw Funchess was hurt and holding his head and then decided to throw the flag AFTER seeing the reaction. Same on the roughing the passser. Boger saw Cam plead for the flag and then threw it.

On the illegal contact flag that was picked up, the ball was incomplete and almost at rest in the end zone when he flung the flag up the field.
FatMan - excellent post  
Matt M. : 10/7/2018 8:01 pm : link
Not just your initial post, but the follow-ups and all the posts throughout the season about this. More than ever, officials are impacting outcomes negatively. As you pointed out, every week at least one team gets absolutely hosed by a call or series of calls that costs them the game. Whether it be a bogus "laying weight on the QB" or leading with the helmet on a textbook tackle or not measuring on a 3rd and short where the RB doesn't even appear to get to the LOS, let alone gain a yard and on and on.

Then there are the rules that simply can't be called consistently. What I liked the most that you said is the hope that the team and individuals get fined for their comments (and hopefully continued comments) to bring more attention to this. And, no, I won't feel any better if the league comes out and apologizes because we will still have the loss.

People need to realize that saying this doesn't mean we played a perfect game. Yes, we made mistakes and couldn't tackle for shit. But, even with all that, this team fought back and got not 1 but 2 scores inside the last 5 minutes to take the lead. They fought all game and the offense finally broke through. Then what happens? The refs make not one, but a few BS calls that afforded the Panthers the opportunity to attempt the FG. Sure, Gano still had to hit a fucking 63 yard FG, so it wasn't handed to them. But, the win was sure as shit ripped away from the Giants.
RE: RE: It s hard  
Eman11 : 10/7/2018 8:03 pm : link
In comment 14112404 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 14112394 joeinpa said:


Quote:


To understand how they all went against the Giants. The penalty on Collins defies logic




How did one ref not see that Collins was going for the ball and the receiver was hit by his shoulder pad? Pathetic


What you're missing is they saw contact to his helmet by Thomas.

Problem was it was incidental as he was clearly leading with both of his hands/arms outstretched. Any helmet contact there was incidental and not what the rule is meant to guard against. In fact wording has been added to allow for incidental contact when a defender isn't leading with his helmet.
Said on another thread how many teams and players  
ChaChing : 10/7/2018 8:03 pm : link
feel the same way, but I think Watt has the right attitude. Apparently he had a questionable roughing call, but says he gets why the rules are there and he has to adjust more or less. The other side is Tomlin's comment of how it costs coaches & players jobs which you'd think is true

NYG certainly left plays on the field. But the game should be won or lost by players & coaches as much as possible. And any time refs force either team to have to make 1-2-3 extra plays than they should have it's not ideal even if it's reality

IMO if they really wanted to make fair calls they should make MOST calls from a TV studio. But I think most would hate this at least today
Matt...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 8:06 pm : link
I don't know the use of replay if it isn't there to correct calls that incorrectly impact the game.

When you see video of Clay Matthews bearing his weight on the hand that he put on the turf to brace himself, it should be easy to overturn a game-deciding call. When we are called for a bullshit roughness call, replay should be able to show it was a clear mistake.

But replay isn't used to overturn refs judgement calls. Except in all the cases where it is!! The only difference is really one of semantics - you can't review penalties - except those ones you can!!

It is so convoluted
RE: ...  
Go Terps : 10/7/2018 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14112363 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Personally, I think we're all a bit numb to this. Enough.


Yup.
RE: Matt...  
Matt M. : 10/7/2018 8:09 pm : link
In comment 14112424 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I don't know the use of replay if it isn't there to correct calls that incorrectly impact the game.

When you see video of Clay Matthews bearing his weight on the hand that he put on the turf to brace himself, it should be easy to overturn a game-deciding call. When we are called for a bullshit roughness call, replay should be able to show it was a clear mistake.

But replay isn't used to overturn refs judgement calls. Except in all the cases where it is!! The only difference is really one of semantics - you can't review penalties - except those ones you can!!

It is so convoluted
And then the spot of that ball can't be challenged because it was inside 2 minutes. But, why wasn't a measurement granted?
On question FMiC.  
smshmth8690 : 10/7/2018 8:09 pm : link
When NYG seemingly stopped Carolina on 3rd down, you posted that you thought Newton fucked up and clocked the ball on 4th down. I'm assuming no officials signaled first down either? This makes the call even more egregious, because as Eman11 posted, the 4th and 1 graphic was up on the screen.
Itís gotten so bad over the years  
jpetuch : 10/7/2018 8:09 pm : link
That if there is a big play or stop is made you immediately look to the graphics for the yellow flag.Got accustomed to this in the dark years with some relief during Parcells tenure. But it always comes back strong. They could actually run a Top 10 Bad Calls and Outcomes each week.
The refs..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 8:12 pm : link
signalled first down apparently - but the booth never stopped play:

Quote:
On question FMiC.
smshmth8690 : 8:09 pm : link : reply
When NYG seemingly stopped Carolina on 3rd down, you posted that you thought Newton fucked up and clocked the ball on 4th down. I'm assuming no officials signaled first down either? This makes the call even more egregious, because as Eman11 posted, the 4th and 1 graphic was up on the screen.


As we were celebrating, the one guy said - "Shit they gave him the first" and as I looked up, the chain guys were still running to get in place.
RE: RE: Sy..  
Earl the goat : 10/7/2018 8:13 pm : link
In comment 14112380 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14112375 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


our lack of a pass rush was really evident today.

I don't know if they were spying Cam, but we weren't getting through even when we dialed up blitzes.

This was a good model to use going forward for Eli too. He had people in his face, but he had enough time to go vertical. He seemed like he was getting hit often just after releasing the ball while Cam wasn't often touched.



All the talk surrounding team needs for NYG is QB/OL....I think edge rusher is just as big of a need, if not bigger.

And yes...if NYG is sitting at the top of the 2019 Draft, there are 2-3 guys that may be in consideration over a QB


Thatís what they are paying Vernon for. But he canít stay on field
Matt...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 8:14 pm : link
the spot can be challenged, but it has to be a booth review.

It didn't even look close to being a 1st down, so I don't know how it wasn't.
Don't forget the two BS penalties on Webb  
montanagiant : 10/7/2018 8:20 pm : link
For a non-existent hold and then a personal foul for no fucking reason other than arguing that he didn't do it
And in one series in the fourth,  
Doomster : 10/7/2018 8:21 pm : link
not once, but twice did the Panthers hike the ball, after the clock said 0.0, TWICE! No penalty.....

BUT LET'S FACE IT, THE DEFENSE HAS SCREWED THE POOCH IN THE FOURTH THIS SEASON......
RE: Matt...  
Eman11 : 10/7/2018 8:26 pm : link
In comment 14112442 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the spot can be challenged, but it has to be a booth review.

It didn't even look close to being a 1st down, so I don't know how it wasn't.


I hear ya man and I just have to let it go. The more I think about it the more pissed I get and in the end it doesn't matter now. What's done is done.

I only hope the league looks at what happened so we don't have to go through that kind of thing again. Same with the non trip end zone call last week.
Just watched the end of the game again  
Jim in Tampa : 10/7/2018 8:32 pm : link
On that final series McCaffrey was brought down with 24 seconds left. Even if it takes them 7 seconds to unpile everyone and call for the measurement, a 10 second runoff still gives the Panthers 6 seconds. During the measurement they would have had their kicking team on the field and ready.
The worst kind of fan is the one that thinks he's "keeping it real"  
BestFeature : 10/7/2018 8:50 pm : link
by bringing up mistakes a team made to lose and saying "don't blame the refs". These people are useful idiots for the NFL. If you're not going to hold refs accountable unless a team is perfect in a game and doesn't make a mistake (which NEVER happens) then the standards are FAR higher for a regular Joe at his/her job than an NFL official.
RE: Well  
BestFeature : 10/7/2018 8:53 pm : link
In comment 14112361 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
1) The argument that refs impact wins and losses IS valid. 100%

2) Today, NYG got the short end of the stick with multiple calls

3) But I think it's pointless to discuss because it goes both ways. Every team gets lucky here and there. Every team gets unlucky here and there. However each individual fan base always thinks their team gets it worse than others. Similar to injury-talk.

4) The point remains...Rosas kick out of bounds. Missed tackles left and right. 2 bad INTs thrown by Manning. Zero pass rush by NYG. Good teams overcome bad refs, and NYG had multiple chances to do so. They failed.


For the sake of the NFL "it happens both ways is NOT good enough."
RE: RE: Well  
BestFeature : 10/7/2018 9:03 pm : link
In comment 14112568 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 14112361 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


1) The argument that refs impact wins and losses IS valid. 100%

2) Today, NYG got the short end of the stick with multiple calls

3) But I think it's pointless to discuss because it goes both ways. Every team gets lucky here and there. Every team gets unlucky here and there. However each individual fan base always thinks their team gets it worse than others. Similar to injury-talk.

4) The point remains...Rosas kick out of bounds. Missed tackles left and right. 2 bad INTs thrown by Manning. Zero pass rush by NYG. Good teams overcome bad refs, and NYG had multiple chances to do so. They failed.



For the sake of the NFL "it happens both ways is NOT good enough."


For the sake of the NFL "it happens both ways" is NOT good enough.
Its losers lament when turning to blame refs  
micky : 10/7/2018 9:04 pm : link
Sorry make the plays to not be in that situation
Thanks, FMiC  
clatterbuck : 10/7/2018 9:06 pm : link
Excellent post and follow-up analysis. I've been watching Giants and NFL football for more than 60 years. The officiating continues to deteriorate. Today was a horrendous example. Usually, there may be one or two critical calls in a game. Today there were at least five.
Don't worry  
B in ALB : 10/7/2018 9:08 pm : link
Olivier Vernon will be back by Week 13.
RE: Its losers lament when turning to blame refs  
UConn4523 : 10/7/2018 9:15 pm : link
In comment 14112595 micky said:
Quote:
Sorry make the plays to not be in that situation


So if a Giants fan bitches about Clay Mathews getting jobbed, that makes me a loser?

None of us play in these games. We can asses and critique whatever we want. Saying ďmake playsĒ doesnít make you a tough guy, doesnít impact the game, and provides nothing on threads.
RE: FatMan in Charlotte  
TyreeHelmet : 10/7/2018 9:17 pm : link
In comment 14112357 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I hear ya... you're preaching to the choir.

I swear, if the NFL was actually TRYING to ruin themselves, they couldn't do a better job than they are now. It's like they sit around a boardroom and say, "What else can we do to turn fans off?" "I know, let's add another commerical!" "Yeah, and let's make it a PF penalty when no one actually gets hit!"

At least the game was exciting today. And the Giants did enough keystone cops stuff to not be overly sympathetic. I also am very wary of sounding like Redskins fans and blaming the refs for every loss.

But the Giants got screwed today.


Very nice breakdown Fatman.

Even outside of the robbery of today, the NFL has completely ruined their games and product. There is zero flow or momentum to games anymore. Even when a big play occurs, fans, players and coaches are bracing for a flag. I canít even fathom how badly they have screwed things up.

They lost a ton of veteran refs this year which has taken a toll. But something needs to be done. Iím a die hard sports fan and love the Giants, but this has become hard to watch. They have ruined the product.
Worst game I have ever saw officiated  
The 12th Man : 10/7/2018 9:37 pm : link
This team should be 3-2. We should never have lost that game it was stolen from us the league needs to apologize and fine these refs. We have have been absolutely screwed for weeks in a row. Getting tired of this.
RE: Worst game I have ever saw officiated  
Jimmy Googs : 10/7/2018 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14112687 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
This team should be 3-2. We should never have lost that game it was stolen from us the league needs to apologize and fine these refs. We have have been absolutely screwed for weeks in a row. Getting tired of this.


We screwed today and it was worth 2 games??
Can't the Giants request a measure  
Knineteen : 10/7/2018 9:39 pm : link
when first down plays are close? Giants should have requested that on the 3rd down play. That would have at least given time for the booth to review.

But based on what we saw on TV, it would have been awfully difficult to overturn that call. The ball was pretty much touching the yellow first down line on the screen.
RE: Don't worry  
VinegarPeppers : 10/7/2018 9:47 pm : link
And on IR by game 14.


In comment 14112605 B in ALB said:
Quote:
Olivier Vernon will be back by Week 13.
RE: RE: Don't worry  
ChaChing : 10/7/2018 9:55 pm : link
In comment 14112719
Quote:
B in ALB said:
Olivier Vernon will be back by Week 13.

VinegarPeppers said:
And on IR by game 14.

Nice, I can't wait! So we're sure to lead the league in QB pressures Week 13.
RE: What should bother people..  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/7/2018 10:00 pm : link
In comment 14112415 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is a lot of these flags were thrown late. Very late.

On the illegal contact flag that was picked up, the ball was incomplete and almost at rest in the end zone when he flung the flag up the field.


This was the one at the end when the flag was thrown 5 seconds after the ball had already bounced in the end zone? I was incredulous.
That was the one..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 10:06 pm : link
I turned to my son and said the game's over if they call another BS penalty. And it would've at that point. Would've been 1st down with 2:20 left.

As the ref ran in, another one stepped up and made an incomplete sign and they picked up the flag for no illegal contact.

Seemed almost like the one guy was saying "That's too blatant to make up!!" :)
Fat Man,  
Leg of Theismann : 10/7/2018 10:23 pm : link
I remember last week we had to argue with a couple of our fellow fans on this board about why the refs also directly impacted the loss last week too. Iím not even usually the type to complain about officiating as I believe fans can be biased and every team gets hurt by bad calls, but last week was the first time I was literally depressed about how much the refs impacted the game, particularly on missing the holding/tripping of Tomlinson when the Saints were backed up on the goal line. Itís amazing to think this game was somehow even worse than last week.

So many on this board talking about ďblow up the team and start from scratchĒ tonight, and while thatís already ridiculous to say when weíre only 5 games into a completely new regime, iíd also say that if just a couple of those awful calls last week and this week had actually been gotten right the Giants would be 3-2 right now. Fans tend to focus on the negative plays by players when their team loses and the positive plays when they win, but the reality is that every team has good and bad plays every game and the outcome often comes down to just 2-3 plays going a particular way. It sucks when those 2-3 plays have nothing to do with the teams performance and everything to do with the officials. All I know is despite imperfect play this team HAS played well enough to win the last 2 weeks and would have won if the officiating was even close to being even. Itís not just 1-2 bad calls/no-calls, itís been more like at least 5 or 6 in both games with every single bad call going in favor of the opposing team, and the calls have come at pivotal points in the game when it is too late for the team to overcome the shitty officiating.
I tried to..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2018 10:30 pm : link
think of calls that might've been perceived as BS by the Panthers fans and I came up with the replay of a catch that was ruled incomplete, but looked like the guy had it.

Couldn't really think of any others.
RE: Matt...  
Matt M. : 10/7/2018 10:35 pm : link
In comment 14112442 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the spot can be challenged, but it has to be a booth review.

It didn't even look close to being a 1st down, so I don't know how it wasn't.
IT can't be challenged inside 2 minutes, so as you point out, it has to come from the booth. How did they not review it?!
Jackrabbit at his locker after the game.  
BlueHurricane : 10/7/2018 11:10 pm : link
Answer to every question

ďWe need better referees.Ē

I donít know how these guys donít lose their mind in the best of battle and knock one of these shit heads out. Iím sorry. Today it would have been justified.
*heat of battle  
BlueHurricane : 10/7/2018 11:11 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Matt...  
Matt M. : 10/8/2018 7:54 am : link
In comment 14112836 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 14112442 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


the spot can be challenged, but it has to be a booth review.
It didn't even look close to being a 1st down, so I don't know how it wasn't.

IT can't be challenged inside 2 minutes, so as you point out, it has to come from the booth. How did they not review it?!
Better yet, even without a review, how was there not even a measurement? Even with the friendly spot, it wasn't clearly a first down, so how was there no measurement regardless of a review?
Boger and his crew never fail  
JonC : 10/8/2018 7:59 am : link
to be absolutely clueless.

If the Giants just had a couple fewer self-inflicted stupid they would've won the game anyway.
All that said, would it have made much of a difference?  
Matt M. : 10/8/2018 8:47 am : link
If they measured, the Panthers would already have their FG unit on the field. There would be a running clock to deal with and a rushed snap. But, they still would have had a decent shot.
Canít play sloppy ball  
Dave in PA : 10/8/2018 8:51 am : link
The refs are going to blow multiple calls per game, each game, every year. This is a certainty. The Giants have to put themselves in a better position to not be losing because of these calls. That might be a tall order, but itís reality. Tighten up some of these mental mistakes are this can be a winning football team.
Matt..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/8/2018 8:52 am : link
I half believe that the Panthers might even run a play to get the first down there. I think the last thing Rivera was planning to do was to try a 63 yard FG.
RE: Matt..  
Matt M. : 10/8/2018 8:54 am : link
In comment 14113153 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I half believe that the Panthers might even run a play to get the first down there. I think the last thing Rivera was planning to do was to try a 63 yard FG.
That I don't know. I was surprised myself they went for the 63 yarder. I would have thought with the first, they try one quick out right at the sidelines first. But, they went for the kick and nailed it.
And while the final...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/8/2018 9:01 am : link
spit in the face was the McCaffery spot, the refs bailed out the Panthers on a 4th down stop and two 3rd down stops on drives that led to 17 Panther points.

That doesn't take into account other bad calls on drives that we held them.

I'll wonder too, if Shepard gets a facemask call, the giants have a 1st and 10 from the 35 yard line, and perhaps they aren't calling the same play that Eli threw the INT on. Bad calls even impact the flow and playcalling.
RE: And while the final...  
Matt M. : 10/8/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 14113169 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
spit in the face was the McCaffery spot, the refs bailed out the Panthers on a 4th down stop and two 3rd down stops on drives that led to 17 Panther points.

That doesn't take into account other bad calls on drives that we held them.

I'll wonder too, if Shepard gets a facemask call, the giants have a 1st and 10 from the 35 yard line, and perhaps they aren't calling the same play that Eli threw the INT on. Bad calls even impact the flow and playcalling.
Absolutely agree. The game didn't boil down to that one bad spot. It was just the one at the very end that directly led to them being able to attempt the kick. But, there were a number of bad calls/missed calls/flags picked up that were so egregious and negatively impacted the game. That is just unacceptable. How is it 3 or 4 times already this season a flag was thrown that would have benefited the Giants in a crucial spot only to have it picked up after a conference? How does an official right near the play throw a flag for a facemask only to have an official from across the field come in and convince him to pick it up? This has happened multiple times already.
RE: Canít play sloppy ball  
micky : 10/8/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 14113151 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
The refs are going to blow multiple calls per game, each game, every year. This is a certainty. The Giants have to put themselves in a better position to not be losing because of these calls. That might be a tall order, but itís reality. Tighten up some of these mental mistakes are this can be a winning football team.


Yup..this
Fate Is The Hunter  
DeepBlueJint : 10/9/2018 7:12 am : link
The Giants are 1-4.That is what they are. All this talk about refereeing, etc. is pointless. Thanks to Mara, Tisch and Reese the Giants are pathetic. Everyone wants to point out the refereeing but lets be clear about one thing. The Giants lost this game on the field early and often. Why isn't everyone complaining about Beckham's botched punt coverage and Carolina's touchdown in the end zone? Manning's bad interception late in the third quarter? What about the terrible tackling by the Giants' defense that led to Carolina's first touchdown when Curtis Samuel bounced off at least three would-be attempts on a 25-yard scoring strike from Cam Newton. And of course, we get more of Beckham's big mouth during the week. God, I wish we would have traded him for a #1. The Giants are 1-4 because they play 1-4. Relying on the referees is testing fate. In this pathetic NFL, that is like drawing to an inside straight. I can only look forward to the off season with Gettlemen getting rid of the overpaid, underplay veterans, which may include Manning, and getting another good draft including probably a top 3 pick.
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