You want in a nutshell why there's a problem with officiating in the NFL??
The last three games we've had Walt Coleman, Pete Morelli and Jerome Boger. Three guys that shouldn't have been reffing a football game in the past 5 years, let alone having all 3 of them in the league at the same time. They comprise almost 20% of the crews in the NFL.
Think about that - you have utterly clueless guys entrenched as officials. My gripe about all three is they are eerily similar. They are seasoned refs, yet seemingly lose track of rules and make poor interpretations time and again. If experience isn't helping them, then why are they working games.
Three games in a row, three conferences where we've been on the short end of the stick, and at least two of them have been incorrect (I was at the game and couldn't tell from the stands if Barkley had his facemask grasped. Sure looked like Shepard did later, but that's besides the point)
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inadvertent facemask. That’s why his head jerked to the side then back. Because the hand immediately dropped down and grasped the front of the jersey. Not much question there.
The unnecessary roughness call onCollins was other-workday. Like, on what fucking planet is that a penalty on Collins?
I didn’t see the roughing the passer call. Was it legit? My son said it was in no way a penalty.
Wynn hit Newton in the upper chest, close to (but below) the neck. And in no way was it late.
This was another wacky one because if you watch it again, and slow it down,Bolger wasn't even looking at it at the time of contact. He was looking more to his right (upfield) and turned and started reaching for the flag as a reaction to seeing Cam go down.
I can only think he called it as a late hit ( which it wasn't) because no way he saw the contact or even if Wynn might've been blocked into Cam. It was as if Bolger assumed th penalty instead of actually seeing every bit of the play. At least that's my take after watching the replay a few times on DVR.
Maybe Cam sold it and Bolger gave it to him?
Agreed, BUT, it’s come down to, if not for the Giants, I would no longer watch the NFL. This from a fanatic, who lives (lived) NFL football since he was 11
Meanwhile, when the refs make a BS call on us, the flag is never "picked up".
And how many facemasks on Sterling Shepard are they going to miss?
In the past two games, we've seen not just a random call going against us, we've seen several, critical, game-changing calls made.
When we can get call for an illegal hit while diving for and making contact with the ball first and there's no recourse to overturn that shitty call, it shouldn't be acceptable.
what the NFL isn't getting that if you continue to put out a shitty product, the fans go away. Fantasy $$ are reduced and gambling revenues are lower. And that's where they are heading now.
Meanwhile, when the refs make a BS call on us, the flag is never "picked up".
And how many facemasks on Sterling Shepard are they going to miss?
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought maybe that's why SS was losing his shit on the sidelines. He's usually much more composed but I thought maybe he just had enough of taking shit and blew a fuse.
I'm glad if he needed to go off he did it on the sidelines and not where he could get flagged or tossed for it.
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In comment 14113152 Beezer said:
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inadvertent facemask. That’s why his head jerked to the side then back. Because the hand immediately dropped down and grasped the front of the jersey. Not much question there.
The unnecessary roughness call onCollins was other-workday. Like, on what fucking planet is that a penalty on Collins?
I didn’t see the roughing the passer call. Was it legit? My son said it was in no way a penalty.
Wynn hit Newton in the upper chest, close to (but below) the neck. And in no way was it late.
This was another wacky one because if you watch it again, and slow it down,Bolger wasn't even looking at it at the time of contact. He was looking more to his right (upfield) and turned and started reaching for the flag as a reaction to seeing Cam go down.
I can only think he called it as a late hit ( which it wasn't) because no way he saw the contact or even if Wynn might've been blocked into Cam. It was as if Bolger assumed th penalty instead of actually seeing every bit of the play. At least that's my take after watching the replay a few times on DVR.
Maybe Cam sold it and Bolger gave it to him?
I thought it was a late hit at first, but the replays clearly showed he took (maybe) 1 step and I'm almost positive they called him for hitting the QB high.
There's not a good rationalization of how these three guys continue to take the field that can be made.
There's not a good rationalization of how these three guys continue to take the field that can be made.
Right there with ya man.
As frustrated as we are with the incompetence of these crews, I can't even imagine how pissed and outraged the players and coaches are. They're the ones who put in all the hard work, blood and sweat all year round for these 16 games.
IMO, it's time the league uses all the tech available to them and make everything subject to review, while also getting more offials as full time refs. If the players can workout all year round and study film so can these refs.
It boggles my mind how a multi billion dollar industry can let their product be officiated by guys who's main jobs aren't the ones they're doing on Sunday's.
I had to laugh a few years back during the officiating lock out when the media was bemoaning the replacement refs. All I remember thinking was, what have they been watching for the last several years?
That's true as long as jumping offsides doesn't result in an offensive player moving. In this case, the OT(?) flinched in response to Martin so it was the correct call.
I worked with a guy who started as a back judge for HS games when he was 30. He's 45 now and still working his way up. He's an excellent official and would make a fantastic guy at the next level, but he's not even getting to be a head ref at the SC high school level.
The way it works now, getting to be a ref before 35 years old is almost an impossibility. Hell, it is difficult to be one under 40 years old.
How can that be when evaluating the play of guys half their age or more?
It looked like the upman pointed when the Giants player moved and the ref blew the whistle and threw the flag.
I didn't see a flinch, but then again - I was in the stands.
It looked like the upman pointed when the Giants player moved and the ref blew the whistle and threw the flag.
I didn't see a flinch, but then again - I was in the stands.
Don't remember if it was a "flinch", but someone on the offense moved as a result of Martin jumping offsides. Definitely the correct call and a bonehead play by Martin.
It looked like the upman pointed when the Giants player moved and the ref blew the whistle and threw the flag.
I didn't see a flinch, but then again - I was in the stands.
I did not see a flinch. I only saw the upman pointing. Also, if he flinched I thought the call was encroachment, not offsides. The end result is the same. But the fact that it was offsides leads me to believe no one saw a flinch
Part of it is the newer 'sanitized' version of calling games is a bit absurd.
That call on Collins was a bit absurd to me,
that's part of what I mean.
It's getting to the point with QB's, just have a red flag
on each hip, grab the red flag, then he is down, LOL.
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I thought the rule was that if you jump offsides as long as you get back before the ball is snapped an no OL jumps in response, no penalty. Am I wrong?
That's true as long as jumping offsides doesn't result in an offensive player moving. In this case, the OT(?) flinched in response to Martin so it was the correct call.
I thought the O guy flinched too but my question at the time was did Martin ever actually enter the neutral zone when he jumped?
He looked to me to be lined up far enough off the line that when he did jump,he was still not in the NZ, and that's not a penalty even if it causes the O to move. It's only a penalty if he jumps into the NZ and the O reacts to it.
It was kind of hard to tell but it didn't look to me like Martin even jumped all that far. He definitely moved forward but how much is what I questioned at the time.
Overall I agree, unless we play the Packers.
And, just as bad, and just like the NBA, there’s no consistency from ref to ref or crew to crew or game to game. The NFL is becoming unwatchable.
Some things never change..............
Unfortunately while we true fans despise the current game we all still watch. AND even bigger than that all of the fantasy football fans and new found half ass fans still have the league making tons of money.
Nothing is going to change.
I think there is some truth to that. I rarely complain
about officials, yesterday was bad.
It's a game, like all games, played by human beings and officiated by human beings in real time under an increasingly complicated set of rules. Until they make robot officials, simplify the rules, have replay officials examine all 22 players on the field after every play or start throwing flags on every play just in case, this is the way it is. Fucking deal with it already. The weekly Sunday afternoon and Monday morning catharsis over officiating is over the top.
It's a game, like all games, played by human beings and officiated by human beings in real time under an increasingly complicated set of rules. Until they make robot officials, simplify the rules, have replay officials examine all 22 players on the field after every play or start throwing flags on every play just in case, this is the way it is. Fucking deal with it already. The weekly Sunday afternoon and Monday morning catharsis over officiating is over the top.
LOL. If you don't want to discuss the utter joke that is the NFL officiating than why the fuck even contribute to the thread.
I believe that's one of Tomlin's main gripes when he blasted the league yesterday on the rules and refs. Here's a guy who won big and is on the competition committee yet he still sees a problem. He mentioned players and coaches livelihoods being affected by the BS.
HomerJones45 : 10:26 am : link : reply
Most people get over this by the time they are 18.
Coming from a guy who spent years bellyaching over the Mara's and Jim Fassel, who has erected a statue of Coughlin on his mantle and who takes shots over and over again at ownership tells other people to get over anything??
LOL.
I'd say get over the fact we've been in a Super Bowl in each decade since the 70's ended when acting like ownership is completely incompetent, but what the fuck does that accomplish?
The overall problem is that refs in the NFL are comfortable calling penalties they think happened, rather than ones they saw. A guy getting hit hard must be a penalty. A guy falling awkwardly must have been horse-collared. A guy grabbing his head must have been hit helmet-to-helmet.
If the league cared about having the games called correctly they would expand review to cover 15 yard penalties that are definable...horsecollar, facemask, etc and allow teams to challenge and have NFL office review. But they don't want to embarrass their officials so they will never do that.
Bad officiating is just a baked-in part of the NFL. It won't change because the NFL doesn't want it to change.
The overall problem is that refs in the NFL are comfortable calling penalties they think happened, rather than ones they saw. A guy getting hit hard must be a penalty. A guy falling awkwardly must have been horse-collared. A guy grabbing his head must have been hit helmet-to-helmet.
If the league cared about having the games called correctly they would expand review to cover 15 yard penalties that are definable...horsecollar, facemask, etc and allow teams to challenge and have NFL office review. But they don't want to embarrass their officials so they will never do that.
Bad officiating is just a baked-in part of the NFL. It won't change because the NFL doesn't want it to change.
I agree with everything you've said here.
I've been griping for a while now about calls made by refs they don't actually see but as you said just assume are penalties based on what they think happened. Yet they still miss obvious trips when it's there in plain sight like last week.
It's incredibly frustrating and must be even worse for players and coaches.
have too . But the moment of one of the very first calls I hear the name and see his face alarm bells go off yes its the mouth full of marbles Jerome Boger (Face Palm ) its like a rerun of a bad movie .
The face mask should have been enforced on the Barkley play
the defenders hand slid down and the finger latched on to the facemask enough so Barkley head was pulled down and he could proceed upfield it continued to slide down where he
got inside the pads then Barkley was able to try and pull away but then he got hold of his jersey It was clearly enough to impede his progress normally any inadvertent hold on the face mask is called and never over turned
It wasn't the 15 yard variety but it should at the very least the 5 yard call . The call on Collins was a complete joke I didn't see the roughing the passer one well enough to comment .
Walt Coleman seems like he has been around since the foundation of the camping gear does he have a lifetime appointment ok so he is only 66 .
There were several muggings of our D-line I don't remember
getting a single call on that either
have too . But the moment of one of the very first calls I hear the name and see his face alarm bells go off yes its the mouth full of marbles Jerome Boger (Face Palm ) its like a rerun of a bad movie .
The face mask should have been enforced on the Barkley play
the defenders hand slid down and the finger latched on to the facemask enough so Barkley head was pulled down and he could proceed upfield it continued to slide down where he
got inside the pads then Barkley was able to try and pull away but then he got hold of his jersey It was clearly enough to impede his progress normally any inadvertent hold on the face mask is called and never over turned
It wasn't the 15 yard variety but it should at the very least the 5 yard call . The call on Collins was a complete joke I didn't see the roughing the passer one well enough to comment .
Walt Coleman seems like he has been around since the foundation of the camping gear does he have a lifetime appointment ok so he is only 66 .
There were several muggings of our D-line I don't remember
getting a single call on that either
Blues, there is no 5-yd face mask penalty anymore. It's either a 15yd one or nothing and this one clearly should've been enforced because there was a grab of the face mask by Pepper's finger. Enough so as you pointed out, it turned his head and impeded his run.
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In comment 14113152 Beezer said:
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inadvertent facemask. That’s why his head jerked to the side then back. Because the hand immediately dropped down and grasped the front of the jersey. Not much question there.
The unnecessary roughness call onCollins was other-workday. Like, on what fucking planet is that a penalty on Collins?
I didn’t see the roughing the passer call. Was it legit? My son said it was in no way a penalty.
Wynn hit Newton in the upper chest, close to (but below) the neck. And in no way was it late.
This was another wacky one because if you watch it again, and slow it down,Bolger wasn't even looking at it at the time of contact. He was looking more to his right (upfield) and turned and started reaching for the flag as a reaction to seeing Cam go down.
I can only think he called it as a late hit ( which it wasn't) because no way he saw the contact or even if Wynn might've been blocked into Cam. It was as if Bolger assumed th penalty instead of actually seeing every bit of the play. At least that's my take after watching the replay a few times on DVR.
Maybe Cam sold it and Bolger gave it to him?
The call on Collins was similar. There was no flag until the receiver looked hurt. BULLSHIT!
Don't quite remember the down and distance but it would have helped pretty pissed they picked it up making a judgment instead of enforcing the rule is BS
I meant in the title i was unaware of the rule change .
Hochuli turns 68 this Christmas. His son Shawn is one of the new R's this year
To me, Giants may have won 2 more if the officiating was good.
Let’s be honest here - what goes around comes around. We’ve won two SBs these last ten years. Victories that were both unexpected and inexplicable. Seasons of Serendipity. Now we’ve gone the most opposite direction where nothing seems to go right.
The football gods have very interesting senses of humor.