I know that it was clear that the the RB didn't reach the yellow line (unofficial), but I haven't been able to see any good pictures or review of where the actually line of scrimmage. I watched that part of the game again and could not tell. Maybe the coaches tape will be easier to see. I was wondering if there has been any clear visuals put out showing if it really should have been 4th and 1.
Remember,those in the stands do not see the TV yellow line.
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If he did, I never saw it. In fact what I did see on tv was Fox having the graphic say 4th down and then seeing the chain crew scrambling on that sideline. It looked to me like they didn't think the 1st down was made either.
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first down?
If he did, I never saw it. In fact what I did see on tv was Fox having the graphic say 4th down and then seeing the chain crew scrambling on that sideline. It looked to me like they didn't think the 1st down was made either.
Pretty sure the Fox announcers said it was ruled a 1st almost immediately. Was surprised when the broadcast then showed 4th and 1. Doesn't explain how the play wasn't even reviewed though.
Does anyone have a video/screenshot of the 1st down play? Curious to see where that was spotted to judge how close the yellow line was to reality.
I have pics and video I took, but I dont want to go through the hassle of youtubing, then posting. It was disgusting yesterday..
Its why after 24 years I will not be renewing Sunday Ticket. I will watch my Giants game for free. The other 4-5 guys that have come to my home for nearly 30 years will be upset, but I am not paying for a product where they cost teams wins.
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In comment 14113626 ron mexico said:
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first down?
If he did, I never saw it. In fact what I did see on tv was Fox having the graphic say 4th down and then seeing the chain crew scrambling on that sideline. It looked to me like they didn't think the 1st down was made either.
Pretty sure the Fox announcers said it was ruled a 1st almost immediately. Was surprised when the broadcast then showed 4th and 1. Doesn't explain how the play wasn't even reviewed though.
Does anyone have a video/screenshot of the 1st down play? Curious to see where that was spotted to judge how close the yellow line was to reality.
I never head that and had my volume up pretty high and was locked into the game. In fact I honestly thought Cam screwed up by spiking it and we won the game. I had no idea the 1st down was awarded, especially with the graphic and seeing McCaffrey was clearly short on 3rd down.
At best he hits the 45, so where did the drive start? NFL drive chart says it started at the CAR 45, but was it just passed the 45 (as the yellow line indicates) or right on the line?
Booth review only in the final 2 minutes. We were out of TOs anyway so no matter what we couldn't challenge it.
And, FWIW, the NFL claims their NY office reviewed it and felt the call was correct...
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first down?
If he did, I never saw it. In fact what I did see on tv was Fox having the graphic say 4th down and then seeing the chain crew scrambling on that sideline. It looked to me like they didn't think the 1st down was made either.
The chain crew only moves if they are signaled by I believe the line judge. This is incredibly important as if they move early, you lose the original LOS and 1st down markers of the previous play (like for measurements, or if refs are discussing whether or not a catch was good, or penalties). There’s no way they moved without getting the signal to do so.
As for Eyesight, methinks a fan sees more with his heart than objectively.....unless someone can see where the ball was originally spotted on the previous first down, that yellow line is arbitrary....
As for Eyesight, methinks a fan sees more with his heart than objectively.....unless someone can see where the ball was originally spotted on the previous first down, that yellow line is arbitrary....
We had no TOs left. And it'd be risky to use one there even if we did since time was still on our side.
Well, if we take that to this play and it was reviewed then they should have lost 10 seconds making this FG way more difficult or not even a possibility. If there was a 10 second runoff would there be enough time to kick the FG?
Well, if we take that to this play and it was reviewed then they should have lost 10 seconds making this FG way more difficult or not even a possibility. If there was a 10 second runoff would there be enough time to kick the FG?
10 sec runoff is so the offense doesn't essentially get an extra TO as a result of the review. If you re-watch the Sheppard play, I believe they take the 10 sec penalty from when he's touched down, so applying that to the 3rd down run, IF the play had been reviewed, the Panthers likely start the 4th (or 1st) down play with closer to 15 seconds left rather than 11 secs: the 3rd down run was snapped with 30 secs to go and was at most 5-6 secs to the whistle.
I think the bigger question is, does the extra time tempt CAR to try another play before a FG?
Well, if we take that to this play and it was reviewed then they should have lost 10 seconds making this FG way more difficult or not even a possibility. If there was a 10 second runoff would there be enough time to kick the FG?
Yes there is a 10sec runoff because the clock was running- it’s in place to simulate the time it would have taken to get back to the LOS.
I believe you are correct that had it been reviewed there would have been a 10sec runoff.
They would have had plenty of time to get the FG unit out there and only would have been kicking from a yard at most farther away.
Also, not only should there have been a measurement, the spot was wrong. On the new 1st and 10 play the ball is placed over the yellow line which had not been removed yet. The ball was marked what looks like it is half way on the 45 yard line.
Bull freakin Shit!! It takes more than 5 seconds to view all the angles !!!
Previous first down
The run.
Closeup. KEY IS BALL IS IN HIS LEFT HAND!!!!
My screenshot apparently was a fraction of a second off. That is a split second after his forward motion, you are correct.
From rewinding it multiple times, I can’t say he made it or not. My guess is he was a half a football length short. It is literally a matter of inches. I think the call could easily go either way. BUT, to say it definitively without a measurement? That’s hard to do, even with the benefits of replay.
bother to measure is Marble mouth Bogus and his craptastic crew . Well just another mind numbing loss .
We got hosed on a number of calls kept the drive alive and left enough time to kick the game winner .
Now we have to deal with Philly coming off a loss .
O-line will have there hands full for certain thank the
schedule makers for giving us Philly on a short week .
The blue is the LOS- so it would be the “front” or left edge of the blue line or even with the right side of the white line,
So the yellow line should be right on top of the white line- the first down would be the “back” or right edge of the yellow line.
he may very well have gotten the 1st down; though the entire sequence was so odd b/c it was happening so quick and the TV showed 4th down as Cam spiked the ball.
the bigger issue is whether or not the officials should have measured rather than simply let them continue? and I, too, would like to know if the officials actually signaled 1st down regardless of what the TV graphic showed.
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the yellow line is off (or the blue line in the first screenshot). First down should be just to the right of the 45, not just past it as the line shows. Based on that, I'd say that a 1st down there IS the correct call.
The blue is the LOS- so it would be the “front” or left edge of the blue line or even with the right side of the white line,
So the yellow line should be right on top of the white line- the first down would be the “back” or right edge of the yellow line.
I could be wrong, but I would think they'd use the lines consistently:
- Right edge of the blue line (when team driving right-to-left) is where the left-most tip of the ball is.
- Therefore, the right edge of the yellow line is where they need to get to for the first.
In any event, the 1st down screen shot clearly shows the yellow line is off by a few inches. Even if the 1st started at the left edge of the blue line, they still only need the tip of the ball to just reach the 45 as you say, whereas the yellow line clearly shows it needs to essentially cross the 45 yard line.
he may very well have gotten the 1st down; though the entire sequence was so odd b/c it was happening so quick and the TV showed 4th down as Cam spiked the ball.
the bigger issue is whether or not the officials should have measured rather than simply let them continue? and I, too, would like to know if the officials actually signaled 1st down regardless of what the TV graphic showed.
Can't believe I'm defending them since they were awful, but when the sticks are virtually on a major line marker like that, they almost never measure. It's pretty obvious where they need to get to and whether the spot gets them there or not.
Now, whether that spot is accurate or not is another question...
[IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/iemn28.jpg[/IMG]
First Down Marker
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/2w1z1g5.jpg[/IMG]
Farthest point the ball reaches (at least as I saw it)
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/2r5b3t1.jpg[/IMG]
He didn't go anymore forward. He went backwards after being wrapped up and actually spun backwards.
it was very close.
Probably too close to make a change with the call.
it was very close.
Probably too close to make a change with the call.
That screenshot is from the furthest point the ball reached. He was downed behind that point.
[IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/iemn28.jpg[/IMG]
First Down Marker
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/2w1z1g5.jpg[/IMG]
Farthest point the ball reaches (at least as I saw it)
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/2r5b3t1.jpg[/IMG]
Don't use capital letters:
1st down marker
The farthest point of the ball