I saw something Sunday that I have not seen in years. I did not see it in Philadelphia last year and I did not see it in Houston this year. The Eli Manning of old showed up on Sunday, the interceptions and the perfect passes. Since Coughlin was let go, Eli has been playing not to make mistakes. He cannot play that way and win. His SB MVPs and fabulous playoff runs were built on his ability to come up large in the most important moments.
I never criticize Eli outside of these forums. Outside these forums I am a card carrying member of the Eli Manning fan club. My argument against everyone using stats to claim Eli was lucky, mediocre or just along for the ride on a team with a great pass rush was that to win high pressure NFL games takes a certain intangible characteristic that Eli possessed in spades. You would have to watch him week in and week out to understand it.
I have been on this site claiming it was time to move on from Eli it was because I had not seen IT from him in so long I thought it was gone forever. He was able to summon it yesterday. It doesnt mean it is back for good but I have more hope for this team than I have in a long time. I even have hope for this season.
Watching Eli yesterday, it felt like he stopped listening to all the noise about completion percentage and not making turnovers and trusted his experience in winning and said to himself, If I am going out, I am going to go out my way and just sling it I know how I felt watching him and it felt like 2011 so much to me it hurt. Those drives at the end of the game, the magic was there.
I dont believe Sunday was definitive evidence that things are going to turn around or that Eli can repeat it. I FELT what I have been missing from Eli yesterday and it gives me hope. They can build on this. The NFL is about momentum. I believe deep in my heart, if they beat the Eagles on this short week, they will gain the confidence to become a team playing for something.
But he still did not have time to sit back there with no pressure like Cam did.....if he did, who knows what might happen.....
He seemed to throw the ball better in the fourth quarter....
First quarter, everything was high, and OBJ saved him a couple of times......
Two passes he wants back....that fourth down pass to OBj, he hurried the throw and led him too much, which would have been ok, but he had too much steam on it.....the other was that 3rd down pass to a wide open Ellison, in which he had a solid pocket....
And guys like Davis and R. Shepard stepped up, especially Shepard after the bad series he had early in the game...
This defense has cost Eli some fourth quarter comebacks the last few seasons.....
He needs to take those vertical shots, and he did some of that yesterday, which was great to see. We still need to draft his replacement this offseason.
Kimberly Jones posted on Twitter that according to some analytics, the pass had about a 15% chance of completion -- traveled 43 yds in the air and the receiver, OBJ, had only .6 yards of separation. It was a perfect throw, great catch. Maybe Shurmer and Shula should take a few peeks at the Gilbride playbook.
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was right on the money......
Kimberly Jones posted on Twitter that according to some analytics, the pass had about a 15% chance of completion -- traveled 43 yds in the air and the receiver, OBJ, had only .6 yards of separation. It was a perfect throw, great catch. Maybe Shurmer and Shula should take a few peeks at the Gilbride playbook.
And yet you can see these types of plays in about half the games each week on NFLN sunday night wrap up show...
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In comment 14113696 Doomster said:
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was right on the money......
Kimberly Jones posted on Twitter that according to some analytics, the pass had about a 15% chance of completion -- traveled 43 yds in the air and the receiver, OBJ, had only .6 yards of separation. It was a perfect throw, great catch. Maybe Shurmer and Shula should take a few peeks at the Gilbride playbook.
And yet you can see these types of plays in about half the games each week on NFLN sunday night wrap up show...
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In comment 14113696 Doomster said:
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was right on the money......
Kimberly Jones posted on Twitter that according to some analytics, the pass had about a 15% chance of completion -- traveled 43 yds in the air and the receiver, OBJ, had only .6 yards of separation. It was a perfect throw, great catch. Maybe Shurmer and Shula should take a few peeks at the Gilbride playbook.
And yet you can see these types of plays in about half the games each week on NFLN sunday night wrap up show...
Sure, but they don't show all the other ones that don't get completed, which are likely 4x as many
But we don't always win those games in which Eli has a pulse, and we never win games in which he doesn't, and that means we go 4-12 or 5-11 and STILL people think our 37 year old QB is not an issue. He is.
Coaches take the heat for it - ask Kevin Gilbride, Tom Coughlin, and yes Ben McAdoo - but they have no choice, seeing as how there's literally never a viable option on the bench to go to (nor should there be: we don't have enough Cap Room to sign an acceptable alternative and wind up with 4th round draft picks as our backups).
Honestly, it's time to move on. This era is over.
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In comment 14113711 clatterbuck said:
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In comment 14113696 Doomster said:
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was right on the money......
Kimberly Jones posted on Twitter that according to some analytics, the pass had about a 15% chance of completion -- traveled 43 yds in the air and the receiver, OBJ, had only .6 yards of separation. It was a perfect throw, great catch. Maybe Shurmer and Shula should take a few peeks at the Gilbride playbook.
And yet you can see these types of plays in about half the games each week on NFLN sunday night wrap up show...
Yes you can. He did it this week. If the officials do not chop our legs off at the knees today is a different day and those highlights would be the lead story. One performance is NOTHING to make decisions about the future. I cannot agree more. If we see old Eli again against Philadephia AND we WIN, the discussion and narrative should take note. If we work our way to .500 I will a happy fucking fan, that is all. I care so little about being right/wrong about Eli being toast/not toast to watching meaningful football again is laughable. Moments are nice but we need to win a meaningful fucking game in our division before we pop a bottle, I GET THAT. I hope, that's it. Yesterday gave me the courage to hope.
Huh? Should take note of what exactly?
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In comment 14113711 clatterbuck said:
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In comment 14113696 Doomster said:
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was right on the money......
Kimberly Jones posted on Twitter that according to some analytics, the pass had about a 15% chance of completion -- traveled 43 yds in the air and the receiver, OBJ, had only .6 yards of separation. It was a perfect throw, great catch. Maybe Shurmer and Shula should take a few peeks at the Gilbride playbook.
And yet you can see these types of plays in about half the games each week on NFLN sunday night wrap up show...
Sure, but they don't show all the other ones that don't get completed, which are likely 4x as many
What's your point?
Please don't tell me you are suggesting that Eli's rate would be remarkedly better...
In comment 14113703 penkap75 said:
But we don't always win those games in which Eli has a pulse, and we never win games in which he doesn't, and that means we go 4-12 or 5-11 and STILL people think our 37 year old QB is not an issue. He is.
Coaches take the heat for it - ask Kevin Gilbride, Tom Coughlin, and yes Ben McAdoo - but they have no choice, seeing as how there's literally never a viable option on the bench to go to (nor should there be: we don't have enough Cap Room to sign an acceptable alternative and wind up with 4th round draft picks as our backups).
Honestly, it's time to move on. This era is over.
Exactly. Not only are we a bad team, with the 1st overall pick in the draft as it stands today, we have no future at QB sitting on the bench. I don't care how much some of you wanted to discount the 2018 QBs just so Eli could continue to start for our team. They all are improving, while we are going through a roller coaster ride of up and down performances from an established veteran who should be consistently performing at a high level week in and week out. We are not winning with him anymore. Period. This is now spanning seasons. I seriously do not understand what it will take at this point for Mara to move on..
In order to bash, you need to get your facts right.
But we don't always win those games in which Eli has a pulse, and we never win games in which he doesn't, and that means we go 4-12 or 5-11 and STILL people think our 37 year old QB is not an issue. He is.
Coaches take the heat for it - ask Kevin Gilbride, Tom Coughlin, and yes Ben McAdoo - but they have no choice, seeing as how there's literally never a viable option on the bench to go to (nor should there be: we don't have enough Cap Room to sign an acceptable alternative and wind up with 4th round draft picks as our backups).
Honestly, it's time to move on. This era is over.
and yet the last 3 seasons when asked Gilbride, coughlin have all daid he is not the problem. Reese has been relatively silent, Mcadoo has been vocal but noone really trust his evaluation. shumur and gettle said he has plenty left. you point to these people but with the exception of 1 or 2, they disagree with you.
I abide by the Bill Parcels adage: "You are what your record says you are."
1-4 in 2018 with a slew of tough games ahead of us
3-12 in 2017
11-5 in 2016
6-10 in 2015
6-10 in 2014
7-9 in 2013
Do the math.
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He looks good once every three games, thanks to a little bit of help from his teammates to cover up deficiencies (including a Red Zone Int). Everyone gets a stiffy and gurgles, "He's back and better than ever!!!"
But we don't always win those games in which Eli has a pulse, and we never win games in which he doesn't, and that means we go 4-12 or 5-11 and STILL people think our 37 year old QB is not an issue. He is.
Coaches take the heat for it - ask Kevin Gilbride, Tom Coughlin, and yes Ben McAdoo - but they have no choice, seeing as how there's literally never a viable option on the bench to go to (nor should there be: we don't have enough Cap Room to sign an acceptable alternative and wind up with 4th round draft picks as our backups).
Honestly, it's time to move on. This era is over.
and yet the last 3 seasons when asked Gilbride, coughlin have all daid he is not the problem. Reese has been relatively silent, Mcadoo has been vocal but noone really trust his evaluation. shumur and gettle said he has plenty left. you point to these people but with the exception of 1 or 2, they disagree with you.
Even if he wasn't the problem, he's also not the solution. If he was, the Giants would win a lot more. Some QBs are the solution. There are some QBs that are in the playoffs every year, no matter how the OL performs or how bad their defense is.
The issue is so much less than if Eli can be a good QB anymore. He'll be 38 before next season, and the team will likely be drafting in the top 5 again. Whether or not you believe his play necessitates a change at the position or not, he will still be 38 and under contract for only one more year, and you must, as an organization, draft the next franchise QB.
You're likely not going to extend him to play his age 39 season or beyond, and further, Eli may want to retire when his contract runs out anyway, especially if the losing continues and is likely to continue.
The time is nigh to plan for the future, and there will be some guys that have the ability to be franchise QBs in this next draft. The Giants should take the best one especially if they are picking in the top 5 again.
That throw was perfect. I'm surprised we havn't gotten a few people saying, it could have been a few centimeters further, the defender had a chance to make a play on it :)
Im one of the biggest Eli believers and it has a lot to do with what you wrote. Eli has IT and hes had IT for us fans for over a decade, through wins and losses. I cant ever abandon a player like this. Hes special. He showed again why he has some of the most loyal fans any athlete has ever been blessed with. He also has some of the most loyal coaches and team mates. The idea that he is a coach killer is complete garbage.
Odells comments could have completely derailed the season especially if our QB was thin skinned and insecure. But I watched Eli go up to Odell after his TD and give him a gentle pat on the back. After the go ahead TD, he did the same with Sterling who had a meltdown of his own. In Serbys Q&A with Will Hernandez, he was asked what it was like to protect Eli Manning and Will talked about what an honor it was to protect someone like Eli and how he knows Eli appreciates those guys. Steady as a rock and his team mates know who their Captain is.
Im rooting like hell, like you are, that they win on Thursday and go on a run. That Eli magic is still alive so fans should support it and try to enjoy as much of what remains as they can. When he leaves, he will be deeply missed.
Im rooting like hell, like you are, that they win on Thursday and go on a run. That Eli magic is still alive so fans should support it and try to enjoy as much of what remains as they can. When he leaves, he will be deeply missed.
He is already deeply missed. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand. I loved Eli in his prime. He was an outstanding, top 10 QB with an amazing ability to raise his level of play in the playoffs and win Superbowls. That player is gone. I do not buy into the argument of "if you have a franchise QB you better hold on as long as possible". He cannot get us to where we need to be any longer, and there is nothing wrong with that. His time as a consistently top QB has passed, why continue to live in the past?
We lost in a shootout Foles had 4 Td's passing .
I think that game was a good part of the reason that Eli
still had a good couple seasons in him .
Was great to see the deep ball again and even though he got fooled on one pick the other was more the defender making a great play . We really should have had a win but wasn't our day and the Refs did not help ! I think next year could very well be his last . So enjoy what this season and next bring .It would be epic to see him reel in another Lombardi with all the doubters and haters !
BBelle, now we know you are JTGiants..
Eli Manning total QBR over the years:
2008 - 6th
2009 - 7th
2010 - 13th
2011 - 10th
2012 - 9th
2013 - 27th
2014 - 14th
2015 - 16th
2016 - 27th
2017 - 22nd
2018 - 20th
You can believe all you want in a soon to be 38 year old QB. He is not getting better. The team around him will, but he will not magically turn back the clock and become a consistent top QB again, and he is eating a ton of cap space as it is. We are 1-4 coming off a 3-13 season, so no, I do not believe he can be good enough to get us to where we need to be. On top of that, he will only get worse as he continues to age, but lets just keep paying him and hope it works out. That will get us far...
Jesus fucking Christ.
Maybe Cady Latimer or Evana Engrams kind of fills the role.
Why we let Black Unicorn walk for a modest contract is beyond me.
Jesus fucking Christ.
My apologies Dep...you are right...nothing matters when it comes to Eli. Not total QBR, not wins, not the fact that he has a top 3 receiver and an up and coming superstar running back on his team...only that he is under center for as long as possible.
2) Eli is done
3) we have no confident plan to replace him
4) we have a diva receiver that has no confidence in him
good luck winning
2) Eli is done
3) we have no confident plan to replace him
4) we have a diva receiver that has no confidence in him
good luck winning
forgot
5) Did dep26 give Eli his footrub on Monday
The personal attacks are just comical at this point. Most posters are one trick ponies and bring little substance on this board.
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Now we are resulting to QBR.
Jesus fucking Christ.
My apologies Dep...you are right...nothing matters when it comes to Eli. Not total QBR, not wins, not the fact that he has a top 3 receiver and an up and coming superstar running back on his team...only that he is under center for as long as possible.
Yes its only on Eli when it comes to wins and loses. Have a good day saying the same thing over and over and over again.
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In comment 14114021 dep026 said:
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Now we are resulting to QBR.
Jesus fucking Christ.
My apologies Dep...you are right...nothing matters when it comes to Eli. Not total QBR, not wins, not the fact that he has a top 3 receiver and an up and coming superstar running back on his team...only that he is under center for as long as possible.
Yes its only on Eli when it comes to wins and loses. Have a good day saying the same thing over and over and over again.
And you have a good day doing the same. "I wanted Darnold! But...(insert anything that absolves Eli of any blame)". I am not even saying he is the only thing that has resulted in all the losses. I am saying it is beyond time to move on and rebuild this team. Rebuilds do not start with 38 year old QBs.
Right...so when many of the posters on this board last year were incessantly called morons for believing this organization needed to turn the page from Eli and start over..the personal attacks were not a problem then right?
Here we are. 1-4. Awesome.
Not to blame Eli, but what the hell did you all think was going to happen this year? He is clearly not the solution with taking SB and adding Solder and Hernandez. So did you feel this was a 2-3 year plan with Eli st the helm, and that the success rate continued to increase as he got older?
For the defenders of the faith...what are we doing? I dont want criticize unduly unless I undestand what is the optimum path to take and that this is exactly what we should be doing.
Help me people...
Not to blame Eli, but what the hell did you all think was going to happen this year? He is clearly not the solution with taking SB and adding Solder and Hernandez. So did you feel this was a 2-3 year plan with Eli st the helm, and that the success rate continued to increase as he got older?
For the defenders of the faith...what are we doing? I dont want criticize unduly unless I undestand what is the optimum path to take and that this is exactly what we should be doing.
Help me people...
Isn't the answer that the team should put forth its best effort to win and stay relevant in a otherwise weak NFCE...nothing more/nothing less.
If we win...keep moving along thru the season.
If we lose...keep moving along thru the season.
Is there something else I am missing?
They are committed to him this year and next. If they want to see Lauletta, it will be in spot duty, as it should have been last year with Webb, when games are getting out of hand. They will learn from their mistakes of last year's half cocked plan and continue to start Manning, try to keep a competitive team on the field and prepare for 2019 (his final year of his contract). They have committed to that (at minimum). Additionally, if the plan is to start him again next year, then it benefits him to stay in there and continue to run the offense. This is a team that may gel and get better as the season wears on. They may not make the playoffs, but they may be playing spoiler to some potential playoff teams near the end. If that is the case, they are going to want to build off the end of 2018 in to 2019. That's how teams operate. They are not going to just throw away 2018 and 19 to plan for 20. It's just not happening.
You can twist my words to say that I am an Eli lover or whatever, but that is based on logic and what we know of the situation. It's not because I have unrealistic expectations of Eli starting for ten more years, or whatever other hyperbole gets thrown around here. It's just looking at the overall situation and seeing what the logical moves are based on what they've done. And I've said this before, been called an idiot or whatever, but if he keeps performing at the level he has the past couple of weeks, he may even get a one year extension to the shock and dismay of many here. A lot of you say it will never happen, but just watch. The Giants aren't thinking the same way BBI is. It's crystal clear what they are doing. And if it's not, it should be, right, wrong, or indifferent.
Isn't the answer that the team should put forth its best effort to win and stay relevant in a otherwise weak NFCE...nothing more/nothing less.
If we win...keep moving along thru the season.
If we lose...keep moving along thru the season.
Is there something else I am missing?
That's actually fairly accurate, in my opinion.
But he's in that stage where he flashes just enough, especially for his faithful, that you think he's about to re-ascend to his heyday.
Let's see 3-4 games in a row with some sustained quality before we go down this path once again.
Come the hell on.
You have to understand the poster that posted it, though... he has been critical of the guy all offseason and was right there with everybody that said Manning was done, "finito" to use Shurmur's words. Now he's starting to see a little bit of what the Giants may have been thinking and he has been swayed in his opinion a bit.
He's being piled on by the same guys he was sided with a couple months ago. If anything, it's interesting that somebody that was ardently against continuing with Manning now thinks that Manning has a little something left, something he previously did not, after watching him play.
It seems I have let go (at least I hope) of the giants being something that has an impact on my mood or am impact on enjoying football. I honestly don't have anything at stake, although happiness would be at stake, or again not being able to enjoy even when the game(s) or even season doesn't go my way.
I honestly enjoyed the game on Sunday even though the end result of a loss stung. I don't think I've become less of a fan, but perhaps I've allowed myself a different perspective.
The Giants used to be my life, a loss and I was miserable like someone who just got some awful life changing news, or when they won I was able to enjoy life. I'm making the conversion from fanatic to a supporter of a team for entertainment, and even perhaps some good life lessons about working together as a team amongst other good life lessons.
1. We are a bad team
2. Eli is near the end of his career.
3. He is still the best QB on the roster.
Instead of complaining about the same thing and the same mistakes game after game after game... how about we just enjoy the last few games he has and all the great times he gave us.
Eli is 37 and is in year 15. Things like glimmers of hope or signs aren't enough at this stage.
If he needs ideal conditions to win football games, we're spending too much money on the QB position.
It's not even his fault that we lost on Sunday. But the bottom line is we keep losing and we're a bad team still. So, if it's going to take another 2-3 years to fix this, how smart is it to keep stringing things along with Eli?
My entire argument is that there doesn't seem to be any endgame here. We're swimming against the current.
Eli is 37 and is in year 15. Things like glimmers of hope or signs aren't enough at this stage.
If he needs ideal conditions to win football games, we're spending too much money on the QB position.
It's not even his fault that we lost on Sunday. But the bottom line is we keep losing and we're a bad team still. So, if it's going to take another 2-3 years to fix this, how smart is it to keep stringing things along with Eli?
My entire argument is that there doesn't seem to be any endgame here. We're swimming against the current.
And I'm not really arguing, I'm just discussing. The tea leaves say Eli is the QB until the end of next season. Whatever happens after that, who knows. Whether we like it, whether we think it's right or wrong, whatever... That's the most likely scenario.
I do think Eli has looked good at some points. But we're hanging onto this hope that he's going to suddenly start carrying the team again or something and he's not 2011 Eli anymore.
Even when Eli played pretty well, we still lost. So, the team is obviously not well-constructed and if that's the case, we need to re-consider where we're spending our cap dollars going forward.
I don't know if that's a foregone conclusion. I think it depends how the rest of the year goes.
They can save 17M by cutting him after this year. That's a good chunk of space and if we still don't think we can compete next year, perhaps we'd be wise to re-invest those dollars into other areas of the team... like the offensive line. Or the DB depth.
They are not going to split the practice reps. They tried to do that last year and we all know how that went down.
I think the most likely scenario for people that really want a QB to replace Manning, is that the Giants like somebody enough to draft them in first two rounds this off season and groom him behind Manning next season.
I think the most likely scenario for people that really want a QB to replace Manning, is that the Giants like somebody enough to draft them in first two rounds this off season and groom him behind Manning next season.
I'm starting to think you are right. They would have to make the call in March as to not pay the roster bonus and that means doing so without knowing who his successor is.
Only way I could see it happening is is we end up with the #1 pick and we like one of the prospects or he gets hurt and KL shows he can play at this level.
Both scenarios are very unlikely.
You have to understand the poster that posted it, though... he has been critical of the guy all offseason and was right there with everybody that said Manning was done, "finito" to use Shurmur's words. Now he's starting to see a little bit of what the Giants may have been thinking and he has been swayed in his opinion a bit.
He's being piled on by the same guys he was sided with a couple months ago. If anything, it's interesting that somebody that was ardently against continuing with Manning now thinks that Manning has a little something left, something he previously did not, after watching him play.
If we lose Thursday, this season is done. It's already on life support.
If we lose Thursday, this season is done. It's already on life support.
For this season, probably... But if the team gels and rips off 5 or 6 in a row to end the season, maybe playing spoiler against some competitive teams along the way, that's something to build on for next season.
These guys need to learn to play together as a team. There are 33 new players this year out of 53, and more to come. Cohesion and repetition are important to build a team.
This is a brand new lockerroom from what we've had (I imagine the lockerroom culture the past couple of years was bad).
The majority of the 2019 Giants team is already on the roster so I'm hoping they show continued improvement through out the season.
I mean I hope they beat the eagles and go on a run but if they don't I'm still going to route for them to play better and start winning games.
And like I said, if they can get hot together for a stretch to end the season on a positive note, that can be a positive even if we end up 7-9.
This team needs positives.
I think the most likely scenario for people that really want a QB to replace Manning, is that the Giants like somebody enough to draft them in first two rounds this off season and groom him behind Manning next season.
I would clearly challenge this thinking. I would hope the threshold to cutting him isn't just a meltdown. Don't let one 30+ point game get extrapolated very far please as I can drum up a hundred data points that would mitigate that pretty easily.
I would hope the team utilizes its games in 2019 (and 2018 when they become no longer relevant) to get better at every position for the future inclusive of QB. And that may mean a change to a more mobile guy to see what that looks like, or what we can do with cap savings in 2019 by shedding Eli, or both.
In my opinion, this potential theme to keep Eli another year and groom a guy behind him in 2019 who could take over the job in 2020 is tiresome. I know we have games to play in 2018 but that formula isn't working and we are wasting seasons...how long do you want to continue this madness without doing a full-on restructuring which means the guy under center needs to be different. It also doesn't do justice to the guy being groomed b/c until he is the lead and everybody knows he is the lead, he is basically a clipboard holder.
imo...
Does the OL continue to improve? There has been significant progression from this group in my opinion. They are learning to trust one another. The progression has had a positive impact on the passing game. Run blocking should improve with more games.
If the OL continues to improve, but the qb feels pressure that is not there? That would tell us a lot about the status of Manning mentally. I have very little doubt he feels pressure that isn't there from years of hits etc, but it's possible that can be reversed. That is the information I'm waiting on.
You're mocking me because I choose to show patience for a team with all new coaches, new schemes, and a ton of new players.
Is that so far out of bounds to require mocking?
You're mocking me because I choose to show patience for a team with all new coaches, new schemes, and a ton of new players.
Is that so far out of bounds to require mocking?
Sorry, dude. This team has been to the postseason once in the last how many seasons now? And it was a one and done with a coach they have since canned. You'll have to forgive me and others if we're not in the "lets just see how all of this plays out for a few more years" camp when we've been saying that for now going on season 7 of this shit. 1-4 now, as well. And by the time they *might* have this thing fixed (which who knows how long that will take; we are currently on season 7 of trying to fix this thing), who knows how old Eli will be? Who knows how old even guys like Beckham will be since a WR's prime is shorter than a QB's. Same for a RB. I mean, like I said, we are in season 7 of trying to fix this thing. It could be another 2-3 years, it could be another 7 for all we know.
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Think about this for at least one second.
You're mocking me because I choose to show patience for a team with all new coaches, new schemes, and a ton of new players.
Is that so far out of bounds to require mocking?
Sorry, dude. This team has been to the postseason once in the last how many seasons now? And it was a one and done with a coach they have since canned. You'll have to forgive me and others if we're not in the "lets just see how all of this plays out for a few more years" camp when we've been saying that for now going on season 7 of this shit. 1-4 now, as well. And by the time they *might* have this thing fixed (which who knows how long that will take; we are currently on season 7 of trying to fix this thing), who knows how old Eli will be? Who knows how old even guys like Beckham will be since a WR's prime is shorter than a QB's. Same for a RB. I mean, like I said, we are in season 7 of trying to fix this thing. It could be another 2-3 years, it could be another 7 for all we know.
I don't think I have mentioned being patient a few more years. To me, this season requires patience, the McAdoo fiasco set this team back. We see what happens to teams in this league who switch coaches every few years. Now that's not to say a team should hold on to a bad coach just for the sake of patience, I'd say the Giants should have been more patient in their coaching decisions the last couple of times (firing tc only to replace with McAdoo). Hopefully Shurmur is a hit or we are just spinning our wheels.
The last several years (not counting 16) have been very frustrating for fans, which I get. However I don't think that means to lose sight of the current situation, which is this - this is almost a whole new team, and that in itself requires patience in my opinion.
No need to apologize, but thanks.
Good improvement?? Sorry, but I am missing the point. You are looking for our 38 year old QB to show good improvement in the role he has had for us since 2004?
To cut to the chase, his going to remain very shaky in certain games, and others he will be the same old Eli showing some nice throws and some head-scratchers.
Improve requires some changing of his spots at this point which isn't coming...
I'm not even talking about this team going to the SB. How about just looking consistently competent? Can we get there first? It's been awhile since we've been there, nevermind a SB.
I am angry over the same things you are. It seems very likely DG got his job because he still believed in Eli. He said what the owners wanted to hear. He told the owners their beloved 2 time SB winning MVP could be successful again. Can you blame them for believing that, IF DG was right that would have been a beautiful thing, to see the Giants with Manning at the helm make one more run.
While I am not surprised they believed him I am disappointed they were not more skeptical of someone telling them exactly what they wanted to hear. It immediately raises the hair on my arm, but I am always on the alert for a con.
The overwhelming amount of hard data suggested Eli was on the decline. There was reasonable subjective analysis to explain it away. I always leave open the possibility of being wrong, It allows me to still be able to learn as an older man. I saw something Sunday that might suggest the subjective reasoning could be correct. If it completely reverts back to the mean on Thursday it will identify Sunday as an outlier. Root for Eli like hell on Thursday, we could all use a victory over those fuckers and their smug fans. If we do that we are in play in the NFC east, if you don't want that go be a Jets fan.
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Manning to me has shown good improvement on focusing on where to go with the ball vs the rush, even with somewhat shaky pass pro at times.
Good improvement?? Sorry, but I am missing the point. You are looking for our 38 year old QB to show good improvement in the role he has had for us since 2004?
To cut to the chase, his going to remain very shaky in certain games, and others he will be the same old Eli showing some nice throws and some head-scratchers.
Improve requires some changing of his spots at this point which isn't coming...
Perhaps I didn't explain it well.
Manning has always had a talent to feel the rush while maintaining his focus down the field. I believe that ability lost some of its polish from continued hits, sacks, and pressure. Now I'm not talking normal defensive pressure, I'm talking about excessive pressure.
This affects a qb mentally by speeding up his clock to rush throws or rush through progressions and of course the big no no, dropping your head to see the rush instead of keeping your eyes downfield.
I think Manning has shown improvement in this area. I think he can get back to trusting the OL, which will enable him to keep his eyes downfield while not rushing through progressions or rushing throws.
My stance has been and still is until i see differently is that manning while being a part of the problem would cease being a part of the problem if the OL could provide enough protection for the qb to do his job.
The question is whether the lack of protection has scared the 'it' factor out of him permanently. If he can get that back, he can be a viable QB for this year, potentially next.
Many people have been complaining that we should have drafted a QB at 2, and are pointing to the play of Eli as evidence. That's a faulty selling point. A young QB thrown behind this line could get the 'it' factor scared out of him permanently and be ruined.
Any chance of this team being a contender rests upon building a strong OL. sans that, it doesn't matter who the QB is.
It certainly wasnt there vs Dallas or New Orleans as examples.
It certainly wasnt there vs Dallas or New Orleans as examples.
Manning when given protection is starting to produce positive results. I think before or even a short time ago, maybe the protection was there, but maybe the throw was rushed or he seemed hurried through his progressions. I think he's trusting his OL more which allow for the deeper routes to come open. This is a process, sometimes you go forward a step then back a step. I think perhaps some think that even when a battered qb gets protection he is supposed to instantly snap out of the state of mind that has been produced over time.
If you are wanting specifics, as in specific situations I don't have any for you.
Once Eli is gone... you wont be missed and neither will your trolling ways.
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With Eli at the helm is if the defense is able to reincarnate the play of the post season runs in 2007 and 2011 or what the broncos had in Peytons last season. Otherwise this team isnt getting over 500
Once Eli is gone... you wont be missed and neither will your trolling ways.
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In comment 14116543 Les in TO said:
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With Eli at the helm is if the defense is able to reincarnate the play of the post season runs in 2007 and 2011 or what the broncos had in Peytons last season. Otherwise this team isnt getting over 500
Once Eli is gone... you wont be missed and neither will your trolling ways.
Ive been here since 1995 when this was BBHP and Petes Corner. I survived and endured through the Dave Brown era and I will be here after Eli is gone. You on the other hand will likely not only be absent from here (assuming you arent banned again first) but your life will probably be without any purpose or meaning.
Ill be here sweetie when Eli is gone wondering why your posting has decreased dramatically.
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improvement that you speak of. In the second half of the 4qtr vs Carolina?
It certainly wasnt there vs Dallas or New Orleans as examples.
Manning when given protection is starting to produce positive results. I think before or even a short time ago, maybe the protection was there, but maybe the throw was rushed or he seemed hurried through his progressions. I think he's trusting his OL more which allow for the deeper routes to come open. This is a process, sometimes you go forward a step then back a step. I think perhaps some think that even when a battered qb gets protection he is supposed to instantly snap out of the state of mind that has been produced over time.
If you are wanting specifics, as in specific situations I don't have any for you.
Ok, but your comments above really just reek of a fan's undying faith in a something/somebody that no longer exists.
While you may be a really good loyal fan, you also post based on some emotional hope that time/circumstances from the past should be able to be reincarnated in the future given enough chances.
And in the end, you are most likely just going to wind up being a really good loyal disappointed fan...
Ill be here sweetie when Eli is gone wondering why your posting has decreased dramatically.
both of you are embarrassing...
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Ive been here since 1995 when this was BBHP and Petes Corner. I survived and endured through the Dave Brown era and I will be here after Eli is gone. You on the other hand will likely not only be absent from here (assuming you arent banned again first) but your life will probably be without any purpose or meaning.
Ill be here sweetie when Eli is gone wondering why your posting has decreased dramatically.
both of you are embarrassing...
We follow your lead....
Right...
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In comment 14116209 Jimmy Googs said:
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improvement that you speak of. In the second half of the 4qtr vs Carolina?
It certainly wasnt there vs Dallas or New Orleans as examples.
Manning when given protection is starting to produce positive results. I think before or even a short time ago, maybe the protection was there, but maybe the throw was rushed or he seemed hurried through his progressions. I think he's trusting his OL more which allow for the deeper routes to come open. This is a process, sometimes you go forward a step then back a step. I think perhaps some think that even when a battered qb gets protection he is supposed to instantly snap out of the state of mind that has been produced over time.
If you are wanting specifics, as in specific situations I don't have any for you.
Ok, but your comments above really just reek of a fan's undying faith in a something/somebody that no longer exists.
While you may be a really good loyal fan, you also post based on some emotional hope that time/circumstances from the past should be able to be reincarnated in the future given enough chances.
And in the end, you are most likely just going to wind up being a really good loyal disappointed fan...
First off Jimmy, I appreciate the honest reply. Second, my disappointment is only tied to my expectations. I have faced the possibility that Manning won't get back mentally to where he was and I'm fine with that. So even if I am seeing things that aren't there I still keep in mind that I certainly can be wrong which helps mitigate any disappointment.
I understand the possibility that I still don't know shit about the game, while also knowing I'm attempting to learn when given the opportunity, pending I don't let my own personal pride blind me.
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