The Mets have trouble developing positional talent, unlike the Yankees of this decade.
I agree
What development are we talking about? Not since Reyes and Wright has the team made a decent core of home grown young talent. Most has been a hodgepodge of one hit wonders or one dimensional players like Murphy. And even then they got rid of him in his peak prime.
Pitching development...outside of degrom none of them have panned out as to this day in time. You can argue that maybe next year is the year but I still hold my breath to just sit and rely on a top 5 rotation. We have heard that sales pitch plenty the last 5 years
RE: RE: The primary news is the GM search, but I have bad news..
Jeff Coupon is the team's head of baseball operations and the GM search is a farce as Coupon has final say on every baseball move. So nothing will really change with a new GM or front office, as Jeff Coupon is horribly unqualified to be a baseball executive.
Also, the "hot stove" is going to probably be cold. Expect the Coupons to sign no impact free agents and instead market the health of the starting pitchers and better play in the second half as reasons to not improve the roster.
Jesus. Aren't you a joy. What the hell happened to you man?
Sorry bro but the Wilpons have beaten me to a pulp. Its tough to stay positive.
The Mets have trouble developing positional talent, unlike the Yankees of this decade.
I agree
What development are we talking about? Not since Reyes and Wright has the team made a decent core of home grown young talent. Most has been a hodgepodge of one hit wonders or one dimensional players like Murphy. And even then they got rid of him in his peak prime.
Pitching development...outside of degrom none of them have panned out as to this day in time. You can argue that maybe next year is the year but I still hold my breath to just sit and rely on a top 5 rotation. We have heard that sales pitch plenty the last 5 years
You can win in MLB with a core of Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, McNeil deGrom, Thor, Wheeler, Matz, Lugo, Gsellman,etc. duplicate the SF Giants model, they won 3 WS without a 30 HR hitter. I think their 3 WS had maybe 2 players max with over an .850 OPS.
The Mets have trouble developing positional talent, unlike the Yankees of this decade.
I agree
What development are we talking about? Not since Reyes and Wright has the team made a decent core of home grown young talent. Most has been a hodgepodge of one hit wonders or one dimensional players like Murphy. And even then they got rid of him in his peak prime.
Pitching development...outside of degrom none of them have panned out as to this day in time. You can argue that maybe next year is the year but I still hold my breath to just sit and rely on a top 5 rotation. We have heard that sales pitch plenty the last 5 years
You can win in MLB with a core of Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, McNeil deGrom, Thor, Wheeler, Matz, Lugo, Gsellman,etc. duplicate the SF Giants model, they won 3 WS without a 30 HR hitter. I think their 3 WS had maybe 2 players max with over an .850 OPS.
I like our core but it needs more. It needs more depth and needs 2-3 legitimate stars. We lose a few key players for crucial stretches every year. Nimmo and Conforto are really good young players but you gotta take the pressure off them. Cespedes was supposed to be that guy but he's finished. You cant give up and let this window pass us by because the key pieces still ARE in place. We really need to make a run at Machado and closer.
Im really hoping we wrap this GM thing quick because its going to take time to evaluate the roster, get up to speed, and come up with a gameplan. Im pretty sure the Wilpons would sign off on it if it's what the new GM wanted.
RE: RE: RE: The primary news is the GM search, but I have bad news..
Jeff Coupon is the team's head of baseball operations and the GM search is a farce as Coupon has final say on every baseball move. So nothing will really change with a new GM or front office, as Jeff Coupon is horribly unqualified to be a baseball executive.
Also, the "hot stove" is going to probably be cold. Expect the Coupons to sign no impact free agents and instead market the health of the starting pitchers and better play in the second half as reasons to not improve the roster.
Jesus. Aren't you a joy. What the hell happened to you man?
Sorry bro but the Wilpons have beaten me to a pulp. Its tough to stay positive.
Its been a tough couple of seasons but I think we ended on a pretty positive note. We have a pretty nice roster heading into 2019. Just need a couple more pieces. Hope all is good bud.
when I think about how good this team could have been without Harvey and Cespedes getting hurt and deteriorating. Can you imagine this team with a peak Harvey and Cespedes on it? For all the flack the Wilpons and Sandy are getting, this roster theoretically should have been incredible. Shit happens but I doubt too many teams lose players of that caliber (arguably best pitcher and hitter at their peaks) and just go skipping right along. And that's before we even get into the million other shit show injuries we've gone through also (2017 especially).
Oh well. Cant give up. Luckily, Sandy was pretty prudent when it came to long term deals and we are still in a position to add some pieces.
the biggest thing I hope the new GM does is change the style
Defense doesn't really slump and we are already a pitching first org, so I'd look to add some top level defenders up the middle to mix in with the already improved young guys we've called up in the last couple years. I'd personally look to emulate the Royals every day lineup from a few years ago as much as possible. Rosario can be a better version of Escobar. Mcneil as Zobrist is optimistic, but maybe. Conforto and Nimmo are kind of like our versions of Hosmer + Moustakas. Bruce + Frazier are the flawed but productive vets kind of like Gordon + Morales.
The 2 huge missing pieces are the top two way CF and top two way C. Those are the 2 needs i'd look to aggressively fill this offseason. So that's how i'd attack this roster going forward and I'd be willing to shake things up via trade if it meant getting a top CF or C. That's where someone like Buxton is intriguing, albeit risky. Or a Grandal as a FA.
And aside from the lineup they also had a lights out BP, so need to spend the $ to improve there as well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The primary news is the GM search, but I have bad news..
Jeff Coupon is the team's head of baseball operations and the GM search is a farce as Coupon has final say on every baseball move. So nothing will really change with a new GM or front office, as Jeff Coupon is horribly unqualified to be a baseball executive.
Also, the "hot stove" is going to probably be cold. Expect the Coupons to sign no impact free agents and instead market the health of the starting pitchers and better play in the second half as reasons to not improve the roster.
Jesus. Aren't you a joy. What the hell happened to you man?
Sorry bro but the Wilpons have beaten me to a pulp. Its tough to stay positive.
Its been a tough couple of seasons but I think we ended on a pretty positive note. We have a pretty nice roster heading into 2019. Just need a couple more pieces. Hope all is good bud.
Thanks! You too!
There really aren't true two way players in the game anymore though
If there are any they generally end up MVP type players in todays game. Everybody always says they want defense until a guy goes 0-for a week and then they are booing said player off the field. Lagares might be the best defensive CF in baseball but 9 out of 10 Mets fans would trade him for a bag of peanuts, injury history or not. This team cant sustain lineup slumps so my strategy would be to load the lineup up with as many quality bats as possible. Im sick of losing a couple of guys to injury then having things compound by a few slumps and suddenly 3 weeks go by and we've scored 5 runs total. It literally destroyed our 2018.
Offense gets you to the postseason and starting pitching brings home the ring IMO. We have the pitching. Lets get back to the postseason.
I don't think the core I mentioned above can contend with garbage, but it doesn't HAVE to be Machado and I think the Mets can still contend and I've said this before if they add:
1. 2 Legit bullpen pieces. I'm thinking Kimbrel and Familia or Miller or two like that.
2. Fix the D to the extent it can be fixed (jettison Bruce or put him on the bench and get a 1B)
3. Add a starter like Kuechel or Morton or a FA starter.
those three moves I think make the Mets a contender.
however if they do sign machado I think it will obviously be a good thing. My only point is they don't have to.
I agree they dont necessarily have to sign Machado
I also dont disagree with your plan but you can keep Kuechel or Morton for me. They are going to cost a ton and the Mets already had the best SP staff in the league last year. Its unnecessary. We have much bigger holes. Id look to still add offense either through a Realmuto trade or some other avenue.
I don't think the core I mentioned above can contend with garbage, but it doesn't HAVE to be Machado and I think the Mets can still contend and I've said this before if they add:
1. 2 Legit bullpen pieces. I'm thinking Kimbrel and Familia or Miller or two like that.
2. Fix the D to the extent it can be fixed (jettison Bruce or put him on the bench and get a 1B)
3. Add a starter like Kuechel or Morton or a FA starter.
those three moves I think make the Mets a contender.
however if they do sign machado I think it will obviously be a good thing. My only point is they don't have to.
piled up 100 wins but they are clearly a SP or two short and are completely useless in the postseason without it.
Severino and Tanaka are better than DeGrom. And Wheeler wont even crack our postseason rotation
Literally just over two months ago. Ten weeks...
LOL. Ive been thinking about that constantly but am trying not to rub it in. NO WAY YOU GET Torres for deGrom. NO WAY. SONNY GRAY is better than WHEELER!! I wouldnt want him for free!
RE: There really aren't true two way players in the game anymore though
If there are any they generally end up MVP type players in todays game. Everybody always says they want defense until a guy goes 0-for a week and then they are booing said player off the field. Lagares might be the best defensive CF in baseball but 9 out of 10 Mets fans would trade him for a bag of peanuts, injury history or not. This team cant sustain lineup slumps so my strategy would be to load the lineup up with as many quality bats as possible. Im sick of losing a couple of guys to injury then having things compound by a few slumps and suddenly 3 weeks go by and we've scored 5 runs total. It literally destroyed our 2018.
Offense gets you to the postseason and starting pitching brings home the ring IMO. We have the pitching. Lets get back to the postseason.
Met fans would trade Lagares for peanuts because the skin of the peanuts is more durable than he is. And I disagree that there aren't 2 way players out there, there are just few of them and they have a premium cost. We've chosen the discount bin of 1 dimensional players bc of the coupons and an irrational ignorance of the value of defense.
If they wanted Grandal this offseason they could get him. Or Ramos. And that's not a big expectation. Pollock wouldn't make up for choosing Bruce over Cain last year but he is the CF on the best d in baseball. On the trade market I'd imagine the Royals would be willing to listen on Perez. Maybe theres a way to pry JBJ out of fenway. Or you roll the dice on a boom or bust guy like Buxton. Options are out there if they are willing to spend.
I don't think the core I mentioned above can contend with garbage, but it doesn't HAVE to be Machado and I think the Mets can still contend and I've said this before if they add:
1. 2 Legit bullpen pieces. I'm thinking Kimbrel and Familia or Miller or two like that.
2. Fix the D to the extent it can be fixed (jettison Bruce or put him on the bench and get a 1B)
3. Add a starter like Kuechel or Morton or a FA starter.
those three moves I think make the Mets a contender.
however if they do sign machado I think it will obviously be a good thing. My only point is they don't have to.
Agree across the board. Signing one of the top D catchers would go a long way to helping D, along with a highly athletic CF to preempt the next Lagares injury. Machado would be an unbelievable luxury but not a necessity.
RE: I agree they dont necessarily have to sign Machado
I also dont disagree with your plan but you can keep Kuechel or Morton for me. They are going to cost a ton and the Mets already had the best SP staff in the league last year. Its unnecessary. We have much bigger holes. Id look to still add offense either through a Realmuto trade or some other avenue.
adding a starter protects the strength. Morton is 35? he'd get a 1 or 2 year deal for not a ton of money. Keuchel lost some bloom off his rose too, yes he'll get paid, but IMO it's worth it to the Mets.
Heck, I'd pursue Kershaw if he surprisingly opts out (unlikely).
Depending on the Wright and Cespedes dispositions and if the Mets can unload Bruce and possibly Lagares - they'd easily be able to afford my plan with little or slight increase in payroll.
If they do unload Bruce then the Mets would have literally $0 contracts after next year (besides Wright and Cespedes -and it's both of their final years - and 2020 is Bruce's final year if they can't unload him).
If Cespedes was healthy, sure. But he's not. Need a big bat. Im sick and tired of watching these pitchers battle their asses off and come away with nothing. Our second half offense was much improved with McNeil, etc and it was still a grind most nights. deGrom couldn't buy a win. Enough is enough. (speaking generally of course)
Believe it or not Vargas after his first three starts where he missed ST.. was rushed back and was literally pitching behind a net to get ready for those games pitched exactly like what we expected him to. He's not a bad 5th starter IMO. You can also pull Lugo to the rotation if the pen is addressed. Id rather save my dollars for a deGrom extension and a Wheeler mega deal next offseason than blow my wad on a Kuechel. Dunn, Kilome, etc might all be depth options by the all star break. It's just not a need IMO.
RE: RE: There really aren't true two way players in the game anymore though
If there are any they generally end up MVP type players in todays game. Everybody always says they want defense until a guy goes 0-for a week and then they are booing said player off the field. Lagares might be the best defensive CF in baseball but 9 out of 10 Mets fans would trade him for a bag of peanuts, injury history or not. This team cant sustain lineup slumps so my strategy would be to load the lineup up with as many quality bats as possible. Im sick of losing a couple of guys to injury then having things compound by a few slumps and suddenly 3 weeks go by and we've scored 5 runs total. It literally destroyed our 2018.
Offense gets you to the postseason and starting pitching brings home the ring IMO. We have the pitching. Lets get back to the postseason.
Met fans would trade Lagares for peanuts because the skin of the peanuts is more durable than he is. And I disagree that there aren't 2 way players out there, there are just few of them and they have a premium cost. We've chosen the discount bin of 1 dimensional players bc of the coupons and an irrational ignorance of the value of defense.
If they wanted Grandal this offseason they could get him. Or Ramos. And that's not a big expectation. Pollock wouldn't make up for choosing Bruce over Cain last year but he is the CF on the best d in baseball. On the trade market I'd imagine the Royals would be willing to listen on Perez. Maybe theres a way to pry JBJ out of fenway. Or you roll the dice on a boom or bust guy like Buxton. Options are out there if they are willing to spend.
Before Lagares started with the injuries he was being viewed as a late inning replacement 4th/5th OF guy. Nobody wanted him starting. Most of the guys you mentioned aren't much better than Bruce types IMO. None are super stars or guys that can carry a team. Mostly older guys with warts you might be able to snag on a short term deal. Pollock is an injury prone deteriorating player and his D in CF is no longer good. Grandal probably offers the most in overall value but again... the bat isnt "special". You can compound that maybe with a few similar pieces and then you might have something but I honestly dont think thats a huge difference from what we did last year. We were banking on 304 players to supplement a roster but a lot was riding on Cespedes and the younger players developing.
even with all of the other injury calamities and managerial incompetence. They were 1 of only 3 teams with a negative fwar in the BP. A league average BP would have been worth almost 5 more wins on the season and given them 82 wins. And that's just league average. A top 5 pen would have meant 85 wins.
Fixing the BP with at least 2 of the top FA options and a few extra proven veterans for depth is an absolute must and that alone will put them far ahead of where they were entering last season.
Finding a "difference maker" would help to be sure but they are almost impossible to find. Machado and Harper are extremely unlikely but by all means I'm for the Wilpons writing a blank check. They passed on the chance to go after Stanton/Yelich/Cain last year. Only a handful of those guys exist and even fewer change teams. Incremental upgrades don't seem like a big deal until they pass a tipping point of being good at things vs. being bad at them (like defense, or relief pitching). Those are 2 particular areas we have been very bad at for a long time - which makes no sense given we are building around starting pitching and both hurt the results of our starts. See JDG.
pinching pennies leads to bargain shopping for flawed players. They haven't even taken a meeting with top free agent from another team in almost a decade.
RE: If they fixed the BP last year they'd have competed for wild card
even with all of the other injury calamities and managerial incompetence. They were 1 of only 3 teams with a negative fwar in the BP. A league average BP would have been worth almost 5 more wins on the season and given them 82 wins. And that's just league average. A top 5 pen would have meant 85 wins.
Fixing the BP with at least 2 of the top FA options and a few extra proven veterans for depth is an absolute must and that alone will put them far ahead of where they were entering last season.
Finding a "difference maker" would help to be sure but they are almost impossible to find. Machado and Harper are extremely unlikely but by all means I'm for the Wilpons writing a blank check. They passed on the chance to go after Stanton/Yelich/Cain last year. Only a handful of those guys exist and even fewer change teams. Incremental upgrades don't seem like a big deal until they pass a tipping point of being good at things vs. being bad at them (like defense, or relief pitching). Those are 2 particular areas we have been very bad at for a long time - which makes no sense given we are building around starting pitching and both hurt the results of our starts. See JDG.
Part of the reason our bullpen was "awful" was that Familia was out/injured during our most crucial losing streak stretch... and then traded (He ended up finishing very strong in Oakland). Our two highly paid setup options both missed almost the entire season to injury. The one ELITE setup option we had in Seth Lugo was also pulled from the pen and moved to the rotation to replace Thor at the exact same time all hell was breaking loose but a further strain on the pen. The pen clearly needs work but give me a break with last year. 4 out of our 5 backend guys weren't even on the field. Further, just about every relief pitcher people wanted (Shaw, McGee... were absolutely terrible. Even your boy Addison Reed was a disaster.
then why is Sandy paying him $9,000,000? Clearly he thought Lagares could be in the mix to start at some point.
It really is a shame we have over $20,000,000 committed to guys like Lagares and Bruce next year. We couldve used that money to get someone good.
Unforced errors. Happy well have a new GM.
It was based off his rookie year and there were many notable posters here screaming for a Lagares extension right away. It was a bad deal and Sandy basically pulled the plug on Lagares in 2015 when he acquired Cespedes. Lagares was still fairly healthy at that point. He just didn't hit enough.
RE: RE: If they fixed the BP last year they'd have competed for wild card
even with all of the other injury calamities and managerial incompetence. They were 1 of only 3 teams with a negative fwar in the BP. A league average BP would have been worth almost 5 more wins on the season and given them 82 wins. And that's just league average. A top 5 pen would have meant 85 wins.
Fixing the BP with at least 2 of the top FA options and a few extra proven veterans for depth is an absolute must and that alone will put them far ahead of where they were entering last season.
Finding a "difference maker" would help to be sure but they are almost impossible to find. Machado and Harper are extremely unlikely but by all means I'm for the Wilpons writing a blank check. They passed on the chance to go after Stanton/Yelich/Cain last year. Only a handful of those guys exist and even fewer change teams. Incremental upgrades don't seem like a big deal until they pass a tipping point of being good at things vs. being bad at them (like defense, or relief pitching). Those are 2 particular areas we have been very bad at for a long time - which makes no sense given we are building around starting pitching and both hurt the results of our starts. See JDG.
Part of the reason our bullpen was "awful" was that Familia was out/injured during our most crucial losing streak stretch... and then traded (He ended up finishing very strong in Oakland). Our two highly paid setup options both missed almost the entire season to injury. The one ELITE setup option we had in Seth Lugo was also pulled from the pen and moved to the rotation to replace Thor at the exact same time all hell was breaking loose but a further strain on the pen. The pen clearly needs work but give me a break with last year. 4 out of our 5 backend guys weren't even on the field. Further, just about every relief pitcher people wanted (Shaw, McGee... were absolutely terrible. Even your boy Addison Reed was a disaster.
Btw. I completely agree with your last paragraph. Sorry if that came off harsh.
Familia was consistently among the top 10 relievers all year
and has been for the last 5 years running. But it doesn't matter, their overall BP ranking was just as bad with him as without this year so if anything his stats skewed the Met #'s up, not down.
The reasons the Met BP was terrible this past year was not a 1 year thing. It's from multiple years of neglect and poor pickups, literally from Frank Francisco to Bastardo to Ramos and Swarzak this past year. Year after year they ignored the top of the market in FA, settled for the bargain bin or nothing at all, and then had to bargain hunt for guys like Clippard, O'Flaherty, and Salas in season. Reed/Blevins were the only moves they ever made that worked out and yes I would have still preferred they brought Reed back vs. most of the moves they made last offseason.
Like the defense the issue is so far beyond 1 or 2 signings that could have been different. It was a complete systemic failure to build up a satisfactory unit over multiple seasons. From poor evaluation internally (Oday) and externally, to poor resource allocation, to poor development.
season wouldn't effected our bullpen ranking in 2018? Of course it would have. It would have been much better. The intention wasn't to be out of it and for us to trade him. And why the hell are we talking about Frank Fracisco? He was a placeholder during our rebuilding years ions ago to sell a few tickets. He wasn't supposed to lead us to the playoffs. lol. Some of the guys you mentioned like Salas were literally added for free.
Sorry man. Appreciate your perspective but I completely disagree. Sounds like a lot of revisionist history to me. You did want Reed last year badly but it wouldnt have worked out any differently. Might have worked out worse actually.
The stats simply tell a much different story.
The Met had the 7th best pen in 2015 and the 2nd best pen in the league in 2016. In 2017/2018 they were without their closer both times and as I mentioned most of their setup pieces as well. You cant have an effective pen without a closer.
A bullpen debate as far as 2019. Familia is gone. Ramos is gone. Blevins is likely gone. We need a closer and at least a second piece IMO. I think we are all in agreement this year.
fans came onto Met threads during the run-up to the trade deadline and told us that DeGrom wasn't that good, and that packages of middling prospects was the most that they'd give up for him. Even worse was the Wheeler discussions about how we heard he couldn't even crack the Yankees rotation and that we couldn't even get a washed prospect like Frazier for him.
Seems like they would've used a few stud arms and maybe they could've been celebrating rather than watching Boston celebrate on their field.
Oh well. I'm glad we'll have our big 3 to try and make a playoff run next year. I think Yankees are third or fourth best team in the AL and I don't see a clear path forward for them to get past BOS or HOU.
"How many teams can say they are getting a Jennry Mejia back?"
/Omar
But really, as smarter baseball minds than me have said in here, there is a clear path forward --
Fix the bullpen
Add a Bopper
Upgrade catcher (sorry, Shecky, I just don't think MVPlaw really has the talent and durability to be a 130 start guy on a good team).
Lots of good pieces in place -- the second half was really fun, actually, and as much as Callaway baffled me early at times, I really was impressed that he didn't lose this team in adversity -- it was actually a very TC-esque perfromance (2013, 2014) - calamity struck and Callaway kept the team dialed in.
Simply put, we have the best top 3 in baseball - deGrom, Thor, Wheeler -- we just need to give them better support from the offensive end and the BP,
Id actually be pretty shocked if Mejia didnt make the team. He was already reinstated and even pitched in a few minor league games this year as part of his terms. Hell 100% be invited to ST and I think he is out of options. And no that should in no way effect our offseason strategy.
season wouldn't effected our bullpen ranking in 2018? Of course it would have. It would have been much better. The intention wasn't to be out of it and for us to trade him. And why the hell are we talking about Frank Fracisco? He was a placeholder during our rebuilding years ions ago to sell a few tickets. He wasn't supposed to lead us to the playoffs. lol. Some of the guys you mentioned like Salas were literally added for free.
Sorry man. Appreciate your perspective but I completely disagree. Sounds like a lot of revisionist history to me. You did want Reed last year badly but it wouldnt have worked out any differently. Might have worked out worse actually.
The stats simply tell a much different story.
The Met had the 7th best pen in 2015 and the 2nd best pen in the league in 2016. In 2017/2018 they were without their closer both times and as I mentioned most of their setup pieces as well. You cant have an effective pen without a closer.
Revisionist history is acting like the bullpen hasn't been a weakness for the entire decade. The Mets are dead last in fwar from their bullpen 2010-2018. The Yankees are #1 btw. Btw if you change the time frame to post-rebuild 2015 - 2018 they only move up 6 spots to 7th worst BP. 2016 was an aberration.
And with Familia in the 1st half last year Mets BP was 2nd last in fwar (-1.4). Between Robles (19 ip / 5 era / 7 fip), Swarzak (26 ip / 6.1 era / 5.7 fip), Rhame (32 ip /5.8 era / 5.5 fip), Peterson (27 ip / 6.2 era / 5.8 fip), and Ramos (19 ip / 6.4 era / 5.2 fip) you had 120 innings of negative impact relievers in just the first half. That's almost 2 innings per game.
Familia has been 1 of the best closers in baseball for 5 years and they did a terrible job building up a bullpen around him. End of story. Worst BP in baseball 2010-2018 - ( New Window )
to run the Mets looks like a home run on its face. Build up a strong analytics department around him, as well as letting him bring in his own people, and it'd be hard not to be optimistic.
Thanks for the info Eric. Dead last in bullpen fWar over the Alderson era is a damning stat. He consistently failed to build a good bullpen here and his bullpen free agent signings more often than not were busts. The good news is that bullpen is maybe the "easiest" to fix (as opposed to a starting rotation or lineup), so if we can a good GM in here, we can hope to improve rapidly in that area with one big offseason.
RE: Hiring the Cardinals director of player development
to run the Mets looks like a home run on its face. Build up a strong analytics department around him, as well as letting him bring in his own people, and it'd be hard not to be optimistic.
Thanks for the info Eric. Dead last in bullpen fWar over the Alderson era is a damning stat. He consistently failed to build a good bullpen here and his bullpen free agent signings more often than not were busts. The good news is that bullpen is maybe the "easiest" to fix (as opposed to a starting rotation or lineup), so if we can a good GM in here, we can hope to improve rapidly in that area with one big offseason.
Agree on the BP improvement - for the most part BP is pretty directly correlated with $ invested. It's just highly volatile year to year outside of the top closers/setup men. Reed/Swarzak are typical examples of guys that flash for a few years when something clicks but fizzle quick vs. someone like Familia whose stuff has been top tier. Need to start competing for more guys like him, Miller, Herrera, etc again.
RE: RE: So you think having Familia on our roster all
season wouldn't effected our bullpen ranking in 2018? Of course it would have. It would have been much better. The intention wasn't to be out of it and for us to trade him. And why the hell are we talking about Frank Fracisco? He was a placeholder during our rebuilding years ions ago to sell a few tickets. He wasn't supposed to lead us to the playoffs. lol. Some of the guys you mentioned like Salas were literally added for free.
Sorry man. Appreciate your perspective but I completely disagree. Sounds like a lot of revisionist history to me. You did want Reed last year badly but it wouldnt have worked out any differently. Might have worked out worse actually.
The stats simply tell a much different story.
The Met had the 7th best pen in 2015 and the 2nd best pen in the league in 2016. In 2017/2018 they were without their closer both times and as I mentioned most of their setup pieces as well. You cant have an effective pen without a closer.
Revisionist history is acting like the bullpen hasn't been a weakness for the entire decade. The Mets are dead last in fwar from their bullpen 2010-2018. The Yankees are #1 btw. Btw if you change the time frame to post-rebuild 2015 - 2018 they only move up 6 spots to 7th worst BP. 2016 was an aberration.
And with Familia in the 1st half last year Mets BP was 2nd last in fwar (-1.4). Between Robles (19 ip / 5 era / 7 fip), Swarzak (26 ip / 6.1 era / 5.7 fip), Rhame (32 ip /5.8 era / 5.5 fip), Peterson (27 ip / 6.2 era / 5.8 fip), and Ramos (19 ip / 6.4 era / 5.2 fip) you had 120 innings of negative impact relievers in just the first half. That's almost 2 innings per game.
Familia has been 1 of the best closers in baseball for 5 years and they did a terrible job building up a bullpen around him. End of story. Worst BP in baseball 2010-2018 - ( New Window )
2010? What in the world? Lol. We arent talking about rebuilding years. We werent competing or even close to competing until 2015. Most of the samples you cite are either extremely small or skewed to make up whatever argument your trying to make. The pen was good to great in 2015/2016. Virtually the exact same pen was ravaged by injuries or key pieces were traded away when we were out of it (Reed/Familia) which obviously effected its end results.
Rookie maximums for at-bats (130), games pitched (30) or innings (50) in the major leagues"
If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 35% there will be a run-off between the top 2. If a run-off results in a tie the tiebreaker will be vote total in the previous poll, we will continue to "go back" in the polls until there is a clear leader.
*Jeff McNeil is ineligible
*Chris Flexen is ineligible
1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Jarred Kelenic (CF) Kingsport 31/36-86%
4) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
5) Justin Dunn (RHP) 10/37-27%, Run-off with Mark Vientos 17/30-57%
6) Mark Vientos (3b) 16/31-52%
7) David Peterson (LHP) 21/31- 68%
8) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
@NYPost_Mets
4m4 minutes ago
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The Mets have interviewed Chaim Bloom, the Rays senior VP of baseball operations, for their GM opening. Bloom, 35, has spent the last 14 years with the Rays.
Mike Puma @NYPost_Mets
42s
The Mets have interviewed Chaim Bloom, the Rays senior VP of baseball operations, for their GM opening. Bloom, 35, has spent the last 14 years with the Rays.
fans came onto Met threads during the run-up to the trade deadline and told us that DeGrom wasn't that good, and that packages of middling prospects was the most that they'd give up for him. Even worse was the Wheeler discussions about how we heard he couldn't even crack the Yankees rotation and that we couldn't even get a washed prospect like Frazier for him.
Seems like they would've used a few stud arms and maybe they could've been celebrating rather than watching Boston celebrate on their field.
Oh well. I'm glad we'll have our big 3 to try and make a playoff run next year. I think Yankees are third or fourth best team in the AL and I don't see a clear path forward for them to get past BOS or HOU.
These talks always cracked me up. If I was the Yankees I would have blown the Mets away with a package- Torres/ Andujar... whatever it took. Make it hard for them to say no. If I was the Mets, I still would have said no.
I agree
What development are we talking about? Not since Reyes and Wright has the team made a decent core of home grown young talent. Most has been a hodgepodge of one hit wonders or one dimensional players like Murphy. And even then they got rid of him in his peak prime.
Pitching development...outside of degrom none of them have panned out as to this day in time. You can argue that maybe next year is the year but I still hold my breath to just sit and rely on a top 5 rotation. We have heard that sales pitch plenty the last 5 years
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Jeff Coupon is the team's head of baseball operations and the GM search is a farce as Coupon has final say on every baseball move. So nothing will really change with a new GM or front office, as Jeff Coupon is horribly unqualified to be a baseball executive.
Also, the "hot stove" is going to probably be cold. Expect the Coupons to sign no impact free agents and instead market the health of the starting pitchers and better play in the second half as reasons to not improve the roster.
Jesus. Aren't you a joy. What the hell happened to you man?
Sorry bro but the Wilpons have beaten me to a pulp. Its tough to stay positive.
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The Mets have trouble developing positional talent, unlike the Yankees of this decade.
I agree
What development are we talking about? Not since Reyes and Wright has the team made a decent core of home grown young talent. Most has been a hodgepodge of one hit wonders or one dimensional players like Murphy. And even then they got rid of him in his peak prime.
Pitching development...outside of degrom none of them have panned out as to this day in time. You can argue that maybe next year is the year but I still hold my breath to just sit and rely on a top 5 rotation. We have heard that sales pitch plenty the last 5 years
You can win in MLB with a core of Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, McNeil deGrom, Thor, Wheeler, Matz, Lugo, Gsellman,etc. duplicate the SF Giants model, they won 3 WS without a 30 HR hitter. I think their 3 WS had maybe 2 players max with over an .850 OPS.
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In comment 14115810 spike said:
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The Mets have trouble developing positional talent, unlike the Yankees of this decade.
I agree
What development are we talking about? Not since Reyes and Wright has the team made a decent core of home grown young talent. Most has been a hodgepodge of one hit wonders or one dimensional players like Murphy. And even then they got rid of him in his peak prime.
Pitching development...outside of degrom none of them have panned out as to this day in time. You can argue that maybe next year is the year but I still hold my breath to just sit and rely on a top 5 rotation. We have heard that sales pitch plenty the last 5 years
You can win in MLB with a core of Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, McNeil deGrom, Thor, Wheeler, Matz, Lugo, Gsellman,etc. duplicate the SF Giants model, they won 3 WS without a 30 HR hitter. I think their 3 WS had maybe 2 players max with over an .850 OPS.
I like our core but it needs more. It needs more depth and needs 2-3 legitimate stars. We lose a few key players for crucial stretches every year. Nimmo and Conforto are really good young players but you gotta take the pressure off them. Cespedes was supposed to be that guy but he's finished. You cant give up and let this window pass us by because the key pieces still ARE in place. We really need to make a run at Machado and closer.
Im really hoping we wrap this GM thing quick because its going to take time to evaluate the roster, get up to speed, and come up with a gameplan. Im pretty sure the Wilpons would sign off on it if it's what the new GM wanted.
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In comment 14115117 NyquistX3 said:
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Jeff Coupon is the team's head of baseball operations and the GM search is a farce as Coupon has final say on every baseball move. So nothing will really change with a new GM or front office, as Jeff Coupon is horribly unqualified to be a baseball executive.
Also, the "hot stove" is going to probably be cold. Expect the Coupons to sign no impact free agents and instead market the health of the starting pitchers and better play in the second half as reasons to not improve the roster.
Jesus. Aren't you a joy. What the hell happened to you man?
Sorry bro but the Wilpons have beaten me to a pulp. Its tough to stay positive.
Its been a tough couple of seasons but I think we ended on a pretty positive note. We have a pretty nice roster heading into 2019. Just need a couple more pieces. Hope all is good bud.
Oh well. Cant give up. Luckily, Sandy was pretty prudent when it came to long term deals and we are still in a position to add some pieces.
The 2 huge missing pieces are the top two way CF and top two way C. Those are the 2 needs i'd look to aggressively fill this offseason. So that's how i'd attack this roster going forward and I'd be willing to shake things up via trade if it meant getting a top CF or C. That's where someone like Buxton is intriguing, albeit risky. Or a Grandal as a FA.
And aside from the lineup they also had a lights out BP, so need to spend the $ to improve there as well.
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In comment 14115120 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 14115117 NyquistX3 said:
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Jeff Coupon is the team's head of baseball operations and the GM search is a farce as Coupon has final say on every baseball move. So nothing will really change with a new GM or front office, as Jeff Coupon is horribly unqualified to be a baseball executive.
Also, the "hot stove" is going to probably be cold. Expect the Coupons to sign no impact free agents and instead market the health of the starting pitchers and better play in the second half as reasons to not improve the roster.
Jesus. Aren't you a joy. What the hell happened to you man?
Sorry bro but the Wilpons have beaten me to a pulp. Its tough to stay positive.
Its been a tough couple of seasons but I think we ended on a pretty positive note. We have a pretty nice roster heading into 2019. Just need a couple more pieces. Hope all is good bud.
Thanks! You too!
Offense gets you to the postseason and starting pitching brings home the ring IMO. We have the pitching. Lets get back to the postseason.
1. 2 Legit bullpen pieces. I'm thinking Kimbrel and Familia or Miller or two like that.
2. Fix the D to the extent it can be fixed (jettison Bruce or put him on the bench and get a 1B)
3. Add a starter like Kuechel or Morton or a FA starter.
those three moves I think make the Mets a contender.
however if they do sign machado I think it will obviously be a good thing. My only point is they don't have to.
1. 2 Legit bullpen pieces. I'm thinking Kimbrel and Familia or Miller or two like that.
2. Fix the D to the extent it can be fixed (jettison Bruce or put him on the bench and get a 1B)
3. Add a starter like Kuechel or Morton or a FA starter.
those three moves I think make the Mets a contender.
however if they do sign machado I think it will obviously be a good thing. My only point is they don't have to.
you know it wont happen. $$$
Severino and Tanaka are better than DeGrom. And Wheeler wont even crack our postseason rotation
Literally just over two months ago. Ten weeks...
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piled up 100 wins but they are clearly a SP or two short and are completely useless in the postseason without it.
Severino and Tanaka are better than DeGrom. And Wheeler wont even crack our postseason rotation
Literally just over two months ago. Ten weeks...
LOL. Ive been thinking about that constantly but am trying not to rub it in. NO WAY YOU GET Torres for deGrom. NO WAY. SONNY GRAY is better than WHEELER!! I wouldnt want him for free!
Offense gets you to the postseason and starting pitching brings home the ring IMO. We have the pitching. Lets get back to the postseason.
Met fans would trade Lagares for peanuts because the skin of the peanuts is more durable than he is. And I disagree that there aren't 2 way players out there, there are just few of them and they have a premium cost. We've chosen the discount bin of 1 dimensional players bc of the coupons and an irrational ignorance of the value of defense.
If they wanted Grandal this offseason they could get him. Or Ramos. And that's not a big expectation. Pollock wouldn't make up for choosing Bruce over Cain last year but he is the CF on the best d in baseball. On the trade market I'd imagine the Royals would be willing to listen on Perez. Maybe theres a way to pry JBJ out of fenway. Or you roll the dice on a boom or bust guy like Buxton. Options are out there if they are willing to spend.
1. 2 Legit bullpen pieces. I'm thinking Kimbrel and Familia or Miller or two like that.
2. Fix the D to the extent it can be fixed (jettison Bruce or put him on the bench and get a 1B)
3. Add a starter like Kuechel or Morton or a FA starter.
those three moves I think make the Mets a contender.
however if they do sign machado I think it will obviously be a good thing. My only point is they don't have to.
Agree across the board. Signing one of the top D catchers would go a long way to helping D, along with a highly athletic CF to preempt the next Lagares injury. Machado would be an unbelievable luxury but not a necessity.
adding a starter protects the strength. Morton is 35? he'd get a 1 or 2 year deal for not a ton of money. Keuchel lost some bloom off his rose too, yes he'll get paid, but IMO it's worth it to the Mets.
Heck, I'd pursue Kershaw if he surprisingly opts out (unlikely).
Depending on the Wright and Cespedes dispositions and if the Mets can unload Bruce and possibly Lagares - they'd easily be able to afford my plan with little or slight increase in payroll.
If they do unload Bruce then the Mets would have literally $0 contracts after next year (besides Wright and Cespedes -and it's both of their final years - and 2020 is Bruce's final year if they can't unload him).
Believe it or not Vargas after his first three starts where he missed ST.. was rushed back and was literally pitching behind a net to get ready for those games pitched exactly like what we expected him to. He's not a bad 5th starter IMO. You can also pull Lugo to the rotation if the pen is addressed. Id rather save my dollars for a deGrom extension and a Wheeler mega deal next offseason than blow my wad on a Kuechel. Dunn, Kilome, etc might all be depth options by the all star break. It's just not a need IMO.
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If there are any they generally end up MVP type players in todays game. Everybody always says they want defense until a guy goes 0-for a week and then they are booing said player off the field. Lagares might be the best defensive CF in baseball but 9 out of 10 Mets fans would trade him for a bag of peanuts, injury history or not. This team cant sustain lineup slumps so my strategy would be to load the lineup up with as many quality bats as possible. Im sick of losing a couple of guys to injury then having things compound by a few slumps and suddenly 3 weeks go by and we've scored 5 runs total. It literally destroyed our 2018.
Offense gets you to the postseason and starting pitching brings home the ring IMO. We have the pitching. Lets get back to the postseason.
Met fans would trade Lagares for peanuts because the skin of the peanuts is more durable than he is. And I disagree that there aren't 2 way players out there, there are just few of them and they have a premium cost. We've chosen the discount bin of 1 dimensional players bc of the coupons and an irrational ignorance of the value of defense.
If they wanted Grandal this offseason they could get him. Or Ramos. And that's not a big expectation. Pollock wouldn't make up for choosing Bruce over Cain last year but he is the CF on the best d in baseball. On the trade market I'd imagine the Royals would be willing to listen on Perez. Maybe theres a way to pry JBJ out of fenway. Or you roll the dice on a boom or bust guy like Buxton. Options are out there if they are willing to spend.
Before Lagares started with the injuries he was being viewed as a late inning replacement 4th/5th OF guy. Nobody wanted him starting. Most of the guys you mentioned aren't much better than Bruce types IMO. None are super stars or guys that can carry a team. Mostly older guys with warts you might be able to snag on a short term deal. Pollock is an injury prone deteriorating player and his D in CF is no longer good. Grandal probably offers the most in overall value but again... the bat isnt "special". You can compound that maybe with a few similar pieces and then you might have something but I honestly dont think thats a huge difference from what we did last year. We were banking on 304 players to supplement a roster but a lot was riding on Cespedes and the younger players developing.
Fixing the BP with at least 2 of the top FA options and a few extra proven veterans for depth is an absolute must and that alone will put them far ahead of where they were entering last season.
Finding a "difference maker" would help to be sure but they are almost impossible to find. Machado and Harper are extremely unlikely but by all means I'm for the Wilpons writing a blank check. They passed on the chance to go after Stanton/Yelich/Cain last year. Only a handful of those guys exist and even fewer change teams. Incremental upgrades don't seem like a big deal until they pass a tipping point of being good at things vs. being bad at them (like defense, or relief pitching). Those are 2 particular areas we have been very bad at for a long time - which makes no sense given we are building around starting pitching and both hurt the results of our starts. See JDG.
It really is a shame we have over $20,000,000 committed to guys like Lagares and Bruce next year. We couldve used that money to get someone good.
Unforced errors. Happy well have a new GM.
Fixing the BP with at least 2 of the top FA options and a few extra proven veterans for depth is an absolute must and that alone will put them far ahead of where they were entering last season.
Finding a "difference maker" would help to be sure but they are almost impossible to find. Machado and Harper are extremely unlikely but by all means I'm for the Wilpons writing a blank check. They passed on the chance to go after Stanton/Yelich/Cain last year. Only a handful of those guys exist and even fewer change teams. Incremental upgrades don't seem like a big deal until they pass a tipping point of being good at things vs. being bad at them (like defense, or relief pitching). Those are 2 particular areas we have been very bad at for a long time - which makes no sense given we are building around starting pitching and both hurt the results of our starts. See JDG.
Part of the reason our bullpen was "awful" was that Familia was out/injured during our most crucial losing streak stretch... and then traded (He ended up finishing very strong in Oakland). Our two highly paid setup options both missed almost the entire season to injury. The one ELITE setup option we had in Seth Lugo was also pulled from the pen and moved to the rotation to replace Thor at the exact same time all hell was breaking loose but a further strain on the pen. The pen clearly needs work but give me a break with last year. 4 out of our 5 backend guys weren't even on the field. Further, just about every relief pitcher people wanted (Shaw, McGee... were absolutely terrible. Even your boy Addison Reed was a disaster.
It really is a shame we have over $20,000,000 committed to guys like Lagares and Bruce next year. We couldve used that money to get someone good.
Unforced errors. Happy well have a new GM.
It was based off his rookie year and there were many notable posters here screaming for a Lagares extension right away. It was a bad deal and Sandy basically pulled the plug on Lagares in 2015 when he acquired Cespedes. Lagares was still fairly healthy at that point. He just didn't hit enough.
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even with all of the other injury calamities and managerial incompetence. They were 1 of only 3 teams with a negative fwar in the BP. A league average BP would have been worth almost 5 more wins on the season and given them 82 wins. And that's just league average. A top 5 pen would have meant 85 wins.
Fixing the BP with at least 2 of the top FA options and a few extra proven veterans for depth is an absolute must and that alone will put them far ahead of where they were entering last season.
Finding a "difference maker" would help to be sure but they are almost impossible to find. Machado and Harper are extremely unlikely but by all means I'm for the Wilpons writing a blank check. They passed on the chance to go after Stanton/Yelich/Cain last year. Only a handful of those guys exist and even fewer change teams. Incremental upgrades don't seem like a big deal until they pass a tipping point of being good at things vs. being bad at them (like defense, or relief pitching). Those are 2 particular areas we have been very bad at for a long time - which makes no sense given we are building around starting pitching and both hurt the results of our starts. See JDG.
Part of the reason our bullpen was "awful" was that Familia was out/injured during our most crucial losing streak stretch... and then traded (He ended up finishing very strong in Oakland). Our two highly paid setup options both missed almost the entire season to injury. The one ELITE setup option we had in Seth Lugo was also pulled from the pen and moved to the rotation to replace Thor at the exact same time all hell was breaking loose but a further strain on the pen. The pen clearly needs work but give me a break with last year. 4 out of our 5 backend guys weren't even on the field. Further, just about every relief pitcher people wanted (Shaw, McGee... were absolutely terrible. Even your boy Addison Reed was a disaster.
Btw. I completely agree with your last paragraph. Sorry if that came off harsh.
The reasons the Met BP was terrible this past year was not a 1 year thing. It's from multiple years of neglect and poor pickups, literally from Frank Francisco to Bastardo to Ramos and Swarzak this past year. Year after year they ignored the top of the market in FA, settled for the bargain bin or nothing at all, and then had to bargain hunt for guys like Clippard, O'Flaherty, and Salas in season. Reed/Blevins were the only moves they ever made that worked out and yes I would have still preferred they brought Reed back vs. most of the moves they made last offseason.
Like the defense the issue is so far beyond 1 or 2 signings that could have been different. It was a complete systemic failure to build up a satisfactory unit over multiple seasons. From poor evaluation internally (Oday) and externally, to poor resource allocation, to poor development.
Sorry man. Appreciate your perspective but I completely disagree. Sounds like a lot of revisionist history to me. You did want Reed last year badly but it wouldnt have worked out any differently. Might have worked out worse actually.
The stats simply tell a much different story.
The Met had the 7th best pen in 2015 and the 2nd best pen in the league in 2016. In 2017/2018 they were without their closer both times and as I mentioned most of their setup pieces as well. You cant have an effective pen without a closer.
Seems like they would've used a few stud arms and maybe they could've been celebrating rather than watching Boston celebrate on their field.
Oh well. I'm glad we'll have our big 3 to try and make a playoff run next year. I think Yankees are third or fourth best team in the AL and I don't see a clear path forward for them to get past BOS or HOU.
/Omar
But really, as smarter baseball minds than me have said in here, there is a clear path forward --
Fix the bullpen
Add a Bopper
Upgrade catcher (sorry, Shecky, I just don't think MVPlaw really has the talent and durability to be a 130 start guy on a good team).
Lots of good pieces in place -- the second half was really fun, actually, and as much as Callaway baffled me early at times, I really was impressed that he didn't lose this team in adversity -- it was actually a very TC-esque perfromance (2013, 2014) - calamity struck and Callaway kept the team dialed in.
Simply put, we have the best top 3 in baseball - deGrom, Thor, Wheeler -- we just need to give them better support from the offensive end and the BP,
Team is very close tho, in my opinion.
Link - ( New Window )
Sorry man. Appreciate your perspective but I completely disagree. Sounds like a lot of revisionist history to me. You did want Reed last year badly but it wouldnt have worked out any differently. Might have worked out worse actually.
The stats simply tell a much different story.
The Met had the 7th best pen in 2015 and the 2nd best pen in the league in 2016. In 2017/2018 they were without their closer both times and as I mentioned most of their setup pieces as well. You cant have an effective pen without a closer.
Revisionist history is acting like the bullpen hasn't been a weakness for the entire decade. The Mets are dead last in fwar from their bullpen 2010-2018. The Yankees are #1 btw. Btw if you change the time frame to post-rebuild 2015 - 2018 they only move up 6 spots to 7th worst BP. 2016 was an aberration.
And with Familia in the 1st half last year Mets BP was 2nd last in fwar (-1.4). Between Robles (19 ip / 5 era / 7 fip), Swarzak (26 ip / 6.1 era / 5.7 fip), Rhame (32 ip /5.8 era / 5.5 fip), Peterson (27 ip / 6.2 era / 5.8 fip), and Ramos (19 ip / 6.4 era / 5.2 fip) you had 120 innings of negative impact relievers in just the first half. That's almost 2 innings per game.
Familia has been 1 of the best closers in baseball for 5 years and they did a terrible job building up a bullpen around him. End of story.
Worst BP in baseball 2010-2018 - ( New Window )
he certainly tested out that theory when he passed over larocque to hire dave stewart (who bombed) in AZ.
Thanks for the info Eric. Dead last in bullpen fWar over the Alderson era is a damning stat. He consistently failed to build a good bullpen here and his bullpen free agent signings more often than not were busts. The good news is that bullpen is maybe the "easiest" to fix (as opposed to a starting rotation or lineup), so if we can a good GM in here, we can hope to improve rapidly in that area with one big offseason.
Thanks for the info Eric. Dead last in bullpen fWar over the Alderson era is a damning stat. He consistently failed to build a good bullpen here and his bullpen free agent signings more often than not were busts. The good news is that bullpen is maybe the "easiest" to fix (as opposed to a starting rotation or lineup), so if we can a good GM in here, we can hope to improve rapidly in that area with one big offseason.
Agree on the BP improvement - for the most part BP is pretty directly correlated with $ invested. It's just highly volatile year to year outside of the top closers/setup men. Reed/Swarzak are typical examples of guys that flash for a few years when something clicks but fizzle quick vs. someone like Familia whose stuff has been top tier. Need to start competing for more guys like him, Miller, Herrera, etc again.
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season wouldn't effected our bullpen ranking in 2018? Of course it would have. It would have been much better. The intention wasn't to be out of it and for us to trade him. And why the hell are we talking about Frank Fracisco? He was a placeholder during our rebuilding years ions ago to sell a few tickets. He wasn't supposed to lead us to the playoffs. lol. Some of the guys you mentioned like Salas were literally added for free.
Sorry man. Appreciate your perspective but I completely disagree. Sounds like a lot of revisionist history to me. You did want Reed last year badly but it wouldnt have worked out any differently. Might have worked out worse actually.
The stats simply tell a much different story.
The Met had the 7th best pen in 2015 and the 2nd best pen in the league in 2016. In 2017/2018 they were without their closer both times and as I mentioned most of their setup pieces as well. You cant have an effective pen without a closer.
Revisionist history is acting like the bullpen hasn't been a weakness for the entire decade. The Mets are dead last in fwar from their bullpen 2010-2018. The Yankees are #1 btw. Btw if you change the time frame to post-rebuild 2015 - 2018 they only move up 6 spots to 7th worst BP. 2016 was an aberration.
And with Familia in the 1st half last year Mets BP was 2nd last in fwar (-1.4). Between Robles (19 ip / 5 era / 7 fip), Swarzak (26 ip / 6.1 era / 5.7 fip), Rhame (32 ip /5.8 era / 5.5 fip), Peterson (27 ip / 6.2 era / 5.8 fip), and Ramos (19 ip / 6.4 era / 5.2 fip) you had 120 innings of negative impact relievers in just the first half. That's almost 2 innings per game.
Familia has been 1 of the best closers in baseball for 5 years and they did a terrible job building up a bullpen around him. End of story. Worst BP in baseball 2010-2018 - ( New Window )
2010? What in the world? Lol. We arent talking about rebuilding years. We werent competing or even close to competing until 2015. Most of the samples you cite are either extremely small or skewed to make up whatever argument your trying to make. The pen was good to great in 2015/2016. Virtually the exact same pen was ravaged by injuries or key pieces were traded away when we were out of it (Reed/Familia) which obviously effected its end results.
If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 35% there will be a run-off between the top 2. If a run-off results in a tie the tiebreaker will be vote total in the previous poll, we will continue to "go back" in the polls until there is a clear leader.
*Jeff McNeil is ineligible
*Chris Flexen is ineligible
1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Jarred Kelenic (CF) Kingsport 31/36-86%
4) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
5) Justin Dunn (RHP) 10/37-27%, Run-off with Mark Vientos 17/30-57%
6) Mark Vientos (3b) 16/31-52%
7) David Peterson (LHP) 21/31- 68%
8) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
I like the gamble for the Nats, down year and all
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@NYPost_Mets
4m4 minutes ago
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The Mets have interviewed Chaim Bloom, the Rays senior VP of baseball operations, for their GM opening. Bloom, 35, has spent the last 14 years with the Rays.
Mike Puma @NYPost_Mets
42s
The Mets have interviewed Chaim Bloom, the Rays senior VP of baseball operations, for their GM opening. Bloom, 35, has spent the last 14 years with the Rays.
Seems like they would've used a few stud arms and maybe they could've been celebrating rather than watching Boston celebrate on their field.
Oh well. I'm glad we'll have our big 3 to try and make a playoff run next year. I think Yankees are third or fourth best team in the AL and I don't see a clear path forward for them to get past BOS or HOU.
These talks always cracked me up. If I was the Yankees I would have blown the Mets away with a package- Torres/ Andujar... whatever it took. Make it hard for them to say no. If I was the Mets, I still would have said no.