to take my mind off my beloved Yankees - should've known they'd be getting raked over the coals here too haha. I can't imagine more than one or two clowns think deGrom is anything but a dominant pitcher - I thought at the time the Yankees could overwhelm the Mets with quantity (as opposed to Gleyber as the main piece), but it was never realistic. Fun to debate those scenarios though. Both teams are going back to the drawing board now.
to take my mind off my beloved Yankees - should've known they'd be getting raked over the coals here too haha. I can't imagine more than one or two clowns think deGrom is anything but a dominant pitcher - I thought at the time the Yankees could overwhelm the Mets with quantity (as opposed to Gleyber as the main piece), but it was never realistic. Fun to debate those scenarios though. Both teams are going back to the drawing board now.
bc - you are in friendly territory my friend. I know last night stung but it was playoff baseball and the last 2 years your team has played beyond 162.
Hopefully the Mets next GM will have authority to make decisions and maybe there is a trade to be made. Who knows. I am getting soft. As a Ranger fan I wrote a very complimentary Islander post this week too. My man arcarsenal has taught me to embrace the other side : )
Wendle= 3.7 fWAR, Smith 3.4 fWAR, Pham 2.5 fWAR (39 games), Duffy 2.4, Cron 2.1... all trades. Entire league RAVED about the Archer trade. Daniel Robertson 2.4 fWAR (trade), Adames 1.3 fwar in half a season (trade), Choi 1.0 fWAR in only 49 games.
DO it.
Fred reportedly complains about the Yankees... if you aren't going to spend like them... complain about the Rays and A's... "How do they do it?!?"
Welcome, but trust me any and allyankee bashing around here is in good fun. I dont know a single Mets fan that isnt truly, deep down inside, insanely jealous of the Yankees. Not for their past, but their future. Anytime you are feeling down on the Yankees, just glance at a Mets thread and you will instant,y feel better. Congrats on a great season
Welcome, but trust me any and allyankee bashing around here is in good fun. I dont know a single Mets fan that isnt truly, deep down inside, insanely jealous of the Yankees. Not for their past, but their future. Anytime you are feeling down on the Yankees, just glance at a Mets thread and you will instant,y feel better. Congrats on a great season
I don't hate the Yankees, not even a little (since my brother and father are diehard Yankees fans) other than when they play the Mets. Living in Boston metro the only team I legit hate other than NL East teams is the Red Sox.
However, I have never been and am not now even a little bit jealous of the Yankees.
My personal preference is to overhaul from top to bottom. The original Sandy model. You hire a veteran BASEBALL guy to rebuild the organization top to bottom. The traditional GM is probably not the best model moving forward.
if they could do some combination of analytics/baseball guy.
Name Laroque the President of Baseball Operations and name Kim Ng the GM. I would love that IMO, keep the trio of JP, Riccardi, and Omar and we have a pretty diverse brain trust.
Welcome, but trust me any and allyankee bashing around here is in good fun. I dont know a single Mets fan that isnt truly, deep down inside, insanely jealous of the Yankees. Not for their past, but their future. Anytime you are feeling down on the Yankees, just glance at a Mets thread and you will instant,y feel better. Congrats on a great season
I don't hate the Yankees, not even a little (since my brother and father are diehard Yankees fans) other than when they play the Mets. Living in Boston metro the only team I legit hate other than NL East teams is the Red Sox.
However, I have never been and am not now even a little bit jealous of the Yankees.
Fuck the Yankees and their Fans. Benedict Arc at the top of the list.
And just immediately skip his posts? Dude was always level headed but I cant help but think how 2 more years of this and another eagles Super Bowl he is going to be on an eagles board talking about how great wentz is.
We are getting someone with an Omar/Fred relationship almost 100%. I'd be truly stunned otherwise so Josh Byrnes, Gary LaRocque and Doug Melvin all are high odds guys. Byrnes and Melvin having hired Omar previously, LaRocque with a personal friendship with Fred. This is why Omar being so involved is absurd.
And turn the page. This is a crucial offseason and I want whoever it is to be prepared for it. I think whoever is hired is going to end up leaning on the fab 3 regardless. I think anybody could look at our roster and see what our obvious needs are actually but the sooner we get them in here the better.
Im going to be irate if we piss away a season that will feature a deGrom, Wheeler, Thor three headed monster.
We are getting someone with an Omar/Fred relationship almost 100%. I'd be truly stunned otherwise so Josh Byrnes, Gary LaRocque and Doug Melvin all are high odds guys. Byrnes and Melvin having hired Omar previously, LaRocque with a personal friendship with Fred. This is why Omar being so involved is absurd.
We'll see Dan. I'm still optimistic. They are interviewing a bunch of really interesting and promising candidates.
It would be incredibly demoralizing to get 9 years of Alderson only to hire a retread Wilpon crony to follow him up. I think they know that and want to make a good hire here and we'll be happy with how it turns out.
RE: Really excited to simply just get a GM in place
And turn the page. This is a crucial offseason and I want whoever it is to be prepared for it. I think whoever is hired is going to end up leaning on the fab 3 regardless. I think anybody could look at our roster and see what our obvious needs are actually but the sooner we get them in here the better.
Im going to be irate if we piss away a season that will feature a deGrom, Wheeler, Thor three headed monster.
I'm not I understand where you're coming from here. Did i misread this, or are you basically saying you're going to be happy no matter who they hire, so long as they do it fast?
is people complain, but Sandy and Omar couldn't be more opposite but had practically the same result.
Both built winning teams, but failed to seal the deal and failed to sustain the success, for different reasons.
Under Omar, the Mets had their best success since the 2000 WS debacle. a flair hit away from the world series and then a couple devastating collapses.
Under Sandy, the Mets built another solid team and had the lead in the 8th inning in 4 games of the World Series, losing 3 of them. A variety of issues did in Sandy too.
But the bottom line for both is, the opposite approaches were both successful, but for "Mets reasons" neither success was sustained.
is people complain, but Sandy and Omar couldn't be more opposite but had practically the same result.
Both built winning teams, but failed to seal the deal and failed to sustain the success, for different reasons.
Under Omar, the Mets had their best success since the 2000 WS debacle. a flair hit away from the world series and then a couple devastating collapses.
Under Sandy, the Mets built another solid team and had the lead in the 8th inning in 4 games of the World Series, losing 3 of them. A variety of issues did in Sandy too.
But the bottom line for both is, the opposite approaches were both successful, but for "Mets reasons" neither success was sustained.
The common denominator for "mets'ing" is ownership. Though I'd contend Omar has enjoyed carte blanche with this ownership more than anyone else.
I don't trust the Mets at all to figure out the right way to split up responsibilities, but I wouldn't hate the idea of young new school GM and a slightly more old school president to help manage Fred. As much as I want a young GM with fresh ideas helping change the organization up and down, I think Fred/Jeff will swallow up an inexperienced executive.
is people complain, but Sandy and Omar couldn't be more opposite but had practically the same result.
Both built winning teams, but failed to seal the deal and failed to sustain the success, for different reasons.
Under Omar, the Mets had their best success since the 2000 WS debacle. a flair hit away from the world series and then a couple devastating collapses.
Under Sandy, the Mets built another solid team and had the lead in the 8th inning in 4 games of the World Series, losing 3 of them. A variety of issues did in Sandy too.
But the bottom line for both is, the opposite approaches were both successful, but for "Mets reasons" neither success was sustained.
The common denominator for "mets'ing" is ownership. Though I'd contend Omar has enjoyed carte blanche with this ownership more than anyone else.
I don't trust the Mets at all to figure out the right way to split up responsibilities, but I wouldn't hate the idea of young new school GM and a slightly more old school president to help manage Fred. As much as I want a young GM with fresh ideas helping change the organization up and down, I think Fred/Jeff will swallow up an inexperienced executive.
2 things
1) In a successful setup the president would be the one hiring this "new fresh GM" not 2 independant hires. Bringing in 2 different people is setting them up for disaster. Who says they share any of the same philosophies or that their communication style even works?
2) This "split roles" idea might "work" if you didn't have... Fred, Jeff, Ricco, Omar, Collins, Ricciardi all already here with different levels of power. Now add.. 2 more? So we will have 2 owners involved, 4 assistant GM's (all loyal to the Wilpons having been here a long, long time) and THEN a president... and then a GM?
3) What's being suggested by Heyman is pretty clearly not a president/GM situation. It's some Mets only "multi-person" GM.
and find him to be inconsistently accurate but I don't doubt that the wilpons will f this up. I think i've been the most skeptical person re: front office prospects for improving since they brought back Omar last year.
RE: that was 3 things and I agree with all of them
and find him to be inconsistently accurate but I don't doubt that the wilpons will f this up. I think i've been the most skeptical person re: front office prospects for improving since they brought back Omar last year.
Heyman per Michael Mayer said the Mets are considering breaking up GM duties into multiple people doing different things...
also would love to know what went into rejecting Sandy wanting to bring in Cherington but being okay with Omar other than Omar being a Wilpon schill? I find it hard to believe the salary was the issue and if it was... sheesh.
if Omar can get Fred to spend, I'm fine with him in "some" role.
But it wasn't just Omar. the Mets, when Omar took over, had a top 5 payroll (Under Duquette and most of Phillips tenure they were top 5 as well).
Omar maybe nudged it up a couple years to #2, but it wasn't dramatically different).
Mets need to craft a team built for long-term success. And it's not easy, not many MLB teams experience consistent success.
Right, the spending wasn't all Omar it was in part just the Wilpons having more money pre-madoff. Omar getting Fred to spend bigger was both a blessing (Beltran, Santana) and a curse because so much dead money crippled the franchise for a few years (Castillo, Bay, Alou, Perez, K Rod, etc). My biggest knock on Omar is that he was not good at running the organization or the farm system, and despite having resources he never focused on those areas. Sandy was bad at spending the little FA money he got but I think his regime developed and drafted a lot better, so I'd hate to see regression in those areas.
also would love to know what went into rejecting Sandy wanting to bring in Cherington but being okay with Omar other than Omar being a Wilpon schill? I find it hard to believe the salary was the issue and if it was... sheesh.
I think what went into it is Fred likes Omar and wanted to bring back his buddy. Remember when Sandy blew off Omar's intro announcement? I don't think it's a big stretch to connect all the dots now that Cherington refused to even interview. Had this season not been an out and out disaster Omar would probably have been named GM already.
RE: RE: that was 3 things and I agree with all of them
until we see what happens that's all speculation and noise.
once it happens I'll criticize it, but I won't waste time criticizing Heyman rumors (even if well sourced).
That's fair like I said I find Heyman highly inconsistent, but in the spirit of "hope for the best expect the worst" I am mentally prepared for the Mets to do something bizarre here regardless of what Heyman says.
The media bashes the shit out of the Mets for this. Fred WILL listen. He wont get involved until he HAS to. Guess who has the keys and is doing donuts with daddys new lambs lol
My personal preference is to overhaul from top to bottom. The original Sandy model. You hire a veteran BASEBALL guy to rebuild the organization top to bottom. The traditional GM is probably not the best model moving forward.
The media bashes the shit out of the Mets for this. Fred WILL listen. He wont get involved until he HAS to. Guess who has the keys and is doing donuts with daddys new lambs lol
This 100%.
The media has to get on them about this. But, so do the fans! Fans have more power than ever these days with twitter. If the fans sit back and just accept the status quo, nothing changes. The fans and media putting pressure on ownership might lead to a better outcome.
They finally have good news yesterday and its immediately followed up by this nonsense today.
I am not sure everyone really appreciates how bad Omar was at being a GM. Let him do international scouting, building up the academies, but for the love of everything sacred keep him away from team decisions. I am trying to think which was the worst Omar move. Alou 2 weeks before arb deadline so we gave up a 1st was pretty bad, trading for that settle reliever without medical checks was also brutal, never going above slot in drafts and crippling farm as a result and obviously Ollie Perez. But I think my absolute least favorite move was Castillo for 4 effing years.
Dude was leaps better with drafting rounds 3-10 but outside of that he was an utter disaster compared to Sandy.
bc - you are in friendly territory my friend. I know last night stung but it was playoff baseball and the last 2 years your team has played beyond 162.
Hopefully the Mets next GM will have authority to make decisions and maybe there is a trade to be made. Who knows. I am getting soft. As a Ranger fan I wrote a very complimentary Islander post this week too. My man arcarsenal has taught me to embrace the other side : )
DO it.
Fred reportedly complains about the Yankees... if you aren't going to spend like them... complain about the Rays and A's... "How do they do it?!?"
Quote:
Kyle Barraclough traded from the Marlins to the Nats for international pool money.
I like the gamble for the Nats, down year and all
I wish the Mets would have made that gamble
I wish the Mets would have made that gamble
Be nice if we had a GM already...
I don't hate the Yankees, not even a little (since my brother and father are diehard Yankees fans) other than when they play the Mets. Living in Boston metro the only team I legit hate other than NL East teams is the Red Sox.
However, I have never been and am not now even a little bit jealous of the Yankees.
Quote:
I wish the Mets would have made that gamble
Be nice if we had a GM already...
Sounds like things are starting to heat up there. Anyone you're preferring at this point?
Name Laroque the President of Baseball Operations and name Kim Ng the GM. I would love that IMO, keep the trio of JP, Riccardi, and Omar and we have a pretty diverse brain trust.
Quote:
Welcome, but trust me any and allyankee bashing around here is in good fun. I dont know a single Mets fan that isnt truly, deep down inside, insanely jealous of the Yankees. Not for their past, but their future. Anytime you are feeling down on the Yankees, just glance at a Mets thread and you will instant,y feel better. Congrats on a great season
I don't hate the Yankees, not even a little (since my brother and father are diehard Yankees fans) other than when they play the Mets. Living in Boston metro the only team I legit hate other than NL East teams is the Red Sox.
However, I have never been and am not now even a little bit jealous of the Yankees.
Fuck the Yankees and their Fans. Benedict Arc at the top of the list.
Im going to be irate if we piss away a season that will feature a deGrom, Wheeler, Thor three headed monster.
We'll see Dan. I'm still optimistic. They are interviewing a bunch of really interesting and promising candidates.
It would be incredibly demoralizing to get 9 years of Alderson only to hire a retread Wilpon crony to follow him up. I think they know that and want to make a good hire here and we'll be happy with how it turns out.
Im going to be irate if we piss away a season that will feature a deGrom, Wheeler, Thor three headed monster.
I'm not I understand where you're coming from here. Did i misread this, or are you basically saying you're going to be happy no matter who they hire, so long as they do it fast?
Both built winning teams, but failed to seal the deal and failed to sustain the success, for different reasons.
Under Omar, the Mets had their best success since the 2000 WS debacle. a flair hit away from the world series and then a couple devastating collapses.
Under Sandy, the Mets built another solid team and had the lead in the 8th inning in 4 games of the World Series, losing 3 of them. A variety of issues did in Sandy too.
But the bottom line for both is, the opposite approaches were both successful, but for "Mets reasons" neither success was sustained.
I dont expect that to happen
King- Fred
Acting boss- Jeff
and THEN
Omar (long term Wilpon chrony), JP Ricciardi, Terry Collins
and THEN
the GM
It's a really awful setup
Both these guys can build winners with small payrolls and can probably do even better with the top 8-13 payroll the Mets will likely end up having.
IMO, either would be a HR hire and I'd be really excited.
Both these guys can build winners with small payrolls and can probably do even better with the top 8-13 payroll the Mets will likely end up having.
IMO, either would be a HR hire and I'd be really excited.
and yet
Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
27s28 seconds ago
More
Jon Heyman is reporting on WFAN that Mets are talking about splitting up the responsibilities of the GM.
One person's focus could solely be the 40-man roster.
Both built winning teams, but failed to seal the deal and failed to sustain the success, for different reasons.
Under Omar, the Mets had their best success since the 2000 WS debacle. a flair hit away from the world series and then a couple devastating collapses.
Under Sandy, the Mets built another solid team and had the lead in the 8th inning in 4 games of the World Series, losing 3 of them. A variety of issues did in Sandy too.
But the bottom line for both is, the opposite approaches were both successful, but for "Mets reasons" neither success was sustained.
The common denominator for "mets'ing" is ownership. Though I'd contend Omar has enjoyed carte blanche with this ownership more than anyone else.
I don't trust the Mets at all to figure out the right way to split up responsibilities, but I wouldn't hate the idea of young new school GM and a slightly more old school president to help manage Fred. As much as I want a young GM with fresh ideas helping change the organization up and down, I think Fred/Jeff will swallow up an inexperienced executive.
Quote:
is people complain, but Sandy and Omar couldn't be more opposite but had practically the same result.
Both built winning teams, but failed to seal the deal and failed to sustain the success, for different reasons.
Under Omar, the Mets had their best success since the 2000 WS debacle. a flair hit away from the world series and then a couple devastating collapses.
Under Sandy, the Mets built another solid team and had the lead in the 8th inning in 4 games of the World Series, losing 3 of them. A variety of issues did in Sandy too.
But the bottom line for both is, the opposite approaches were both successful, but for "Mets reasons" neither success was sustained.
The common denominator for "mets'ing" is ownership. Though I'd contend Omar has enjoyed carte blanche with this ownership more than anyone else.
I don't trust the Mets at all to figure out the right way to split up responsibilities, but I wouldn't hate the idea of young new school GM and a slightly more old school president to help manage Fred. As much as I want a young GM with fresh ideas helping change the organization up and down, I think Fred/Jeff will swallow up an inexperienced executive.
2 things
1) In a successful setup the president would be the one hiring this "new fresh GM" not 2 independant hires. Bringing in 2 different people is setting them up for disaster. Who says they share any of the same philosophies or that their communication style even works?
2) This "split roles" idea might "work" if you didn't have... Fred, Jeff, Ricco, Omar, Collins, Ricciardi all already here with different levels of power. Now add.. 2 more? So we will have 2 owners involved, 4 assistant GM's (all loyal to the Wilpons having been here a long, long time) and THEN a president... and then a GM?
3) What's being suggested by Heyman is pretty clearly not a president/GM situation. It's some Mets only "multi-person" GM.
But it wasn't just Omar. the Mets, when Omar took over, had a top 5 payroll (Under Duquette and most of Phillips tenure they were top 5 as well).
Omar maybe nudged it up a couple years to #2, but it wasn't dramatically different).
Mets need to craft a team built for long-term success. And it's not easy, not many MLB teams experience consistent success.
until we see what happens that's all speculation and noise.
once it happens I'll criticize it, but I won't waste time criticizing Heyman rumors (even if well sourced).
Heyman per Michael Mayer said the Mets are considering breaking up GM duties into multiple people doing different things...
And here is Dans point number three, from the other day...
But it wasn't just Omar. the Mets, when Omar took over, had a top 5 payroll (Under Duquette and most of Phillips tenure they were top 5 as well).
Omar maybe nudged it up a couple years to #2, but it wasn't dramatically different).
Mets need to craft a team built for long-term success. And it's not easy, not many MLB teams experience consistent success.
Right, the spending wasn't all Omar it was in part just the Wilpons having more money pre-madoff. Omar getting Fred to spend bigger was both a blessing (Beltran, Santana) and a curse because so much dead money crippled the franchise for a few years (Castillo, Bay, Alou, Perez, K Rod, etc). My biggest knock on Omar is that he was not good at running the organization or the farm system, and despite having resources he never focused on those areas. Sandy was bad at spending the little FA money he got but I think his regime developed and drafted a lot better, so I'd hate to see regression in those areas.
I think what went into it is Fred likes Omar and wanted to bring back his buddy. Remember when Sandy blew off Omar's intro announcement? I don't think it's a big stretch to connect all the dots now that Cherington refused to even interview. Had this season not been an out and out disaster Omar would probably have been named GM already.
Quote:
.
until we see what happens that's all speculation and noise.
once it happens I'll criticize it, but I won't waste time criticizing Heyman rumors (even if well sourced).
That's fair like I said I find Heyman highly inconsistent, but in the spirit of "hope for the best expect the worst" I am mentally prepared for the Mets to do something bizarre here regardless of what Heyman says.
This 100%.
The media has to get on them about this. But, so do the fans! Fans have more power than ever these days with twitter. If the fans sit back and just accept the status quo, nothing changes. The fans and media putting pressure on ownership might lead to a better outcome.
I am not sure everyone really appreciates how bad Omar was at being a GM. Let him do international scouting, building up the academies, but for the love of everything sacred keep him away from team decisions. I am trying to think which was the worst Omar move. Alou 2 weeks before arb deadline so we gave up a 1st was pretty bad, trading for that settle reliever without medical checks was also brutal, never going above slot in drafts and crippling farm as a result and obviously Ollie Perez. But I think my absolute least favorite move was Castillo for 4 effing years.
Dude was leaps better with drafting rounds 3-10 but outside of that he was an utter disaster compared to Sandy.
I understand the skepticism but they are certainly trying to speak with a lot of promising candidates. I'm going to be optimistic here.