Cryptic Chris Canty Comment:

but he says a lot of stuff and usually it is all negative when it comes to the giants, granted lately it has been warranted..

No big contract, please.

for draft picks and cap space. LC is core, hard to get appropriate value in trade and he's the type of player we should keep (he just needs to continue watching what he says to the media).

Nice use of alliteration.

...for a second or third. He's not worth a first because he can't cover anything anywhere anytime.

Ugh was he horrendous on Sunday. I could not believe how poor he played.

In comment 14116072 M.S. said:

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...for a second or third. He's not worth a first because he can't cover anything anywhere anytime.

This seems to be a big exaggeration

I like Canty but he is such a media hound now. I get that's his gig now but he can't stand Odell, hate that the Giants passed on Darnold and that is all he talks about when in reference to NYG.

Broken record.

Is not very long but the scary part is that if you remove two to three names the rest might not get you even a conditional draft pick no idea why they are still with this team.

Snacks is safe.

.

when his teammates aren't getting it done, missing reads, etc.

since 2016....

In comment 14116075 crick n NC said:

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In comment 14116072 M.S. said: Quote: ...for a second or third. He's not worth a first because he can't cover anything anywhere anytime. This seems to be a big exaggeration

Of course. It also displays a major lack of understanding about the player type and what he's typically asked to do.

I personally wouldn't pay Collins big money - and that's coming from an Alabama fan who has always really liked Collins.

He's a very good player but he hasn't looked like the same player he was in '16. Could be injury-related, could be the guys around him.. could be a lot of things. But he was an elite safety 2 years ago. He's a good safety now.

off-loading any of those guys right now. Collins will likely walk. DG isn't going to break the bank for him.

In comment 14116077 Rjanyg said:

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I like Canty but he is such a media hound now. I get that's his gig now but he can't stand Odell, hate that the Giants passed on Darnold and that is all he talks about when in reference to NYG. Broken record.

Hmmm sounds like bbi

He had a great season in 2016 but outside of that, he's been very up and down. I'm not sure you pay a guy like that 13m per year.

that there's much to Canty's claim.

He's the type of guy you want on your team

Let him walk and who plays safety? Lil Wayne?

with him a FA at the end of the year, who's giving you a good draft pick?

At this point, we'd be lucky if he brought back a 3rd (again, not knocking LC). And we'd have to trot out a team that would be a lock for a #1 overall draft pick in 2019. You think that he looks disappointing out there with no FS next to him, wait until you see what the D would look like without him back there.

Goodson has disappointed....and not exactly needed

OV is needed on the field....same goes for Jenkins and Apple...

Ya I agree. I not only think he doesn't get traded, I think the Giants extend him...
He isnt a great safety sure, but he is very good and still better than most SSs in the game today.


Him Jenkins, apple isn't bad....expect a new FS next year.


Goodson is possible altho, I don't think he has done bad job essentially being the other ILB. He is playing for cheap too as it currently stands.

Vernon is probably the guy who gets served walking papers next year.

but I sometimes wonder how much "buy-in" there is? I don't think he's a malcontent, but something just doesn't seem right with him. I love the way he plays, though.

Jenkins and Vernon are mercenaries, but neither are going anywhere in season. I can see us moving on this offseason from both.

Collins is playing some exceptionally, extraordinarily undisciplined football this year. Sometimes it works out, but more often he's missing tackles because he isn't wrapping up, or out of position. Frustrating to see because he's not hurt (as far as we know) and when healthy in 2016 he was playing at a legitimate All-Pro caliber, week in and week out. I think the Giants will make him a good faith offer, but if he wants to be the highest-paid safety in the league, I say let him walk.

Taking those players away, along with guys like Eli and DeOssie, or Beckham, Apple etc. (young players we aren't walking away from due to contract situation), and we're left with a list of interchangeable parts-types that are generally part of the annual roster turnover all around the league. Those guys generally aren't problem children, but even if they were, it's not a noteworthy event if we get rid of them.

So, if there's any truth to Canty's statements, I don't see how he's talking about anyone other than Snacks, Jenkins, Collins, or Vernon... none of whom will be in-season cuts, but I can envision a scenario where this is their last season in Blue.

is that he ends up upping with Dallas or Washington and has a resurgence a la Malcolm Jenkins when he left Green Bay for Philly. He was decent on the Packers, but has become a stud since joining the Eagles.

I agree, could be Collins. How much cap will we need to keep him? Answer, alot. Question is, who replaces him?

Or, more likely, OV. Not a stretch to say that's he is toast after this year, unless he becomes LT for the remainder of the season (which is not likely). Question is, what if they trade him? How does that impact their cap relief (I'm not sure).

I don't see Jenkins or Apple going anywhere...neither is Eli.

And Canty would know how exactly?
Please.

In comment 14116087 arcarsenal said:

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In comment 14116075 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 14116072 M.S. said: Quote: ...for a second or third. He's not worth a first because he can't cover anything anywhere anytime. This seems to be a big exaggeration Of course. It also displays a major lack of understanding about the player type and what he's typically asked to do. I personally wouldn't pay Collins big money - and that's coming from an Alabama fan who has always really liked Collins. He's a very good player but he hasn't looked like the same player he was in '16. Could be injury-related, could be the guys around him.. could be a lot of things. But he was an elite safety 2 years ago. He's a good safety now.

A good safety still getting settled in a new defense?

In comment 14116072 M.S. said:

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...for a second or third. He's not worth a first because he can't cover anything anywhere anytime.

I�m sure teams will be lining up to trade for the guy you described.

In comment 14116196 crick n NC said:

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A good safety still getting settled in a new defense?

Who can't perform the basic fundamentals of tackling? He can't even deliver the big hits anymore. Didn't he get run over by a small receiver?

In comment 14116196 crick n NC said:

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In comment 14116087 arcarsenal said: Quote: In comment 14116075 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 14116072 M.S. said: Quote: ...for a second or third. He's not worth a first because he can't cover anything anywhere anytime. This seems to be a big exaggeration Of course. It also displays a major lack of understanding about the player type and what he's typically asked to do. I personally wouldn't pay Collins big money - and that's coming from an Alabama fan who has always really liked Collins. He's a very good player but he hasn't looked like the same player he was in '16. Could be injury-related, could be the guys around him.. could be a lot of things. But he was an elite safety 2 years ago. He's a good safety now. A good safety still getting settled in a new defense?

Eh, I don't buy that there's this major amount of time needed for "settling" into a new system. That's what camp and preseason are for. It's October 9th now. He should know the defense by now, and Bettcher's system has nothing to do with some of those horrendous tackling attempts we saw from him on Sunday.

Collins was an all-pro level player in 2016. He wasn't last year and he isn't now. Again, I realize he was hurt last year... I realize it's a new defense this year. But I think the transition excuse is past being a viable one now that we're more than 1/4 of the way through.

Collins Gives then an extra year under Bettcher to see if he warrants big money

What would be the cost of releasing OV?

In comment 14116206 arcarsenal said:

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In comment 14116196 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 14116087 arcarsenal said: Quote: In comment 14116075 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 14116072 M.S. said: Quote: ...for a second or third. He's not worth a first because he can't cover anything anywhere anytime. This seems to be a big exaggeration Of course. It also displays a major lack of understanding about the player type and what he's typically asked to do. I personally wouldn't pay Collins big money - and that's coming from an Alabama fan who has always really liked Collins. He's a very good player but he hasn't looked like the same player he was in '16. Could be injury-related, could be the guys around him.. could be a lot of things. But he was an elite safety 2 years ago. He's a good safety now. A good safety still getting settled in a new defense? Eh, I don't buy that there's this major amount of time needed for "settling" into a new system. That's what camp and preseason are for. It's October 9th now. He should know the defense by now, and Bettcher's system has nothing to do with some of those horrendous tackling attempts we saw from him on Sunday. Collins was an all-pro level player in 2016. He wasn't last year and he isn't now. Again, I realize he was hurt last year... I realize it's a new defense this year. But I think the transition excuse is past being a viable one now that we're more than 1/4 of the way through.

I've never coached so I certainly don't know the details of installing new systems, I also don't know what Collins has on his plate, perhaps he's think too much which I think can lead to physical mistakes not just mental.

I don't think it's ridiculous

I don't think learning a new defense is an excuse for a player to not execute basic, fundamental tackling technique or to get trucked by a smaller player.

Positioning and coverage stuff I can at least maybe buy - but learning a new system should never excuse a player for not even doing the basics correctly.

He was really bad on Sunday. New system or not. Just lazy football and not what you want to see from players on a team that is about one more loss away from being done for the year.

In comment 14116225 arcarsenal said:

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I don't think learning a new defense is an excuse for a player to not execute basic, fundamental tackling technique or to get trucked by a smaller player. Positioning and coverage stuff I can at least maybe buy - but learning a new system should never excuse a player for not even doing the basics correctly. He was really bad on Sunday. New system or not. Just lazy football and not what you want to see from players on a team that is about one more loss away from being done for the year.

👍

Typically I'd be more open to paying a safety top dollar - it's a lot less expensive than many other positions - but I don't think he warrants it.

In comment 14116220 Giant John said:

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What would be the cost of releasing OV?

We can't afford to release him this year. His dead cap hit this year is $25M. We are already eating JPP's contract. Next year, the dead cap hit is $8M with a cap savings of $11.5M.

A trade is possible this year. His dead cap is what is paid in bonus and pro-rated signing bonus for this year only which is $4.25M. The dead cap for next year is the same $8M. The cap savings for this year would be the remaining unpaid salary which is about $8M.

With the NFC East being complete crap and the possibility that we are still not out of it, we need all hands on deck. Trading OV doesn't help. If we lose Thurs and next week, then the possibility remains.

will accept another offer from another team just to get away from this shit show. He played for the tide and it must be hard to experience losing all the time and the ridiculous stuff that goes with malcontents.

Hasn�t had a legit free safety playing with him. If you get a legit free safety, Collins can focus on his role and excel.

I understand not wanting to overpay but on a reasonable deal, Collins is worth being a part of the core going forward.

As for others, I think Shurmur and Gettleman are moving out of the easy riff raft and malcontent dismissals and into the future shaping of the roster phase and we�ll see some departures on guys where they don�t see a fit with their vision of the new philosophy of the team, culture, skill profile, etc.

I expect our next few off seasons won�t lack in activity.

among DG's free agemt signings?

It�s all about cutting a guy who sucks ass. Nothing else.

I thought this DC would be perfect for him but very disappointing so far

But it�s not because he has some inside scoop. The Giants themselves probably don�t know who is going or staying after this year. Flowers was such low hanging fruit that he could go mid year. Nobody else of any consequence on this team comes close to fitting that same mold

week.

I think some of you are expecting him to be more expensive than he is.

He was a great player in 2016. He wasn't before and hasn't been since. He has been a very good player, though inconsistent. The thing to keep in mind is he's got absolutely no pass rush in front of him, and the FS is a joke.

As much as some of you would like, you can't cut the whole team. And you don't need to. Collins is a building block, so long as he doesn't command a huge salary, which I don't think will be the case. You sign him, and use the draft pick you'd have to use on a safety elsewhere.

in PD with 4. Last week he was up and down. He was right there on what should have been a third down stop that they called the penalty on and he applied pressure on the Cam interception.

In comment 14116084 JonC said:

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when his teammates aren't getting it done, missing reads, etc.

I agree. He�s trying to be everywhere.

For all the crap DG has gotten us seemed to hit it on both Carter and Hill as at least started level Guys. Vernon�s loss is crushing when healthy(sadly almost never) he�s a big contributor. Makes the seconday which was thin more vulnerable. Collins isn�t part of the problem. The
LBs are, and there isn�t a FS on the team who is even close to starter quality.


My guess Vernon will be gone next year. But replaceable since he�s never on the field.

Collins has still been playing at a high level as far as I can see. Having a defensive line that doesn't get pressure makes the entire secondary look worse than what they really are.

In comment 14116241 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 14116220 Giant John said: Quote: What would be the cost of releasing OV? We can't afford to release him this year. His dead cap hit this year is $25M. We are already eating JPP's contract. Next year, the dead cap hit is $8M with a cap savings of $11.5M. A trade is possible this year. His dead cap is what is paid in bonus and pro-rated signing bonus for this year only which is $4.25M. The dead cap for next year is the same $8M. The cap savings for this year would be the remaining unpaid salary which is about $8M. With the NFC East being complete crap and the possibility that we are still not out of it, we need all hands on deck. Trading OV doesn't help. If we lose Thurs and next week, then the possibility remains.

I just want to add that I think OV is gone next year regardless of his play this year. He would have to be LT reincarnated to remain. So if we are out of it before the trade deadline, DG might try and send him to another team for a draft pick in lieu of just releasing him next year.

Collins played the Brian Dawkins role in Spags defense, which I think highlighted that position much more.

Collins is all over the field.. Since he's entered the league he leads all safeties in tackles and ranks 2nd in passes defensed.

If NYG designates Vernon a post 6.1 release they save 15.5 million..

In comment 14116462 Peppers said:

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Collins is all over the field.. Since he's entered the league he leads all safeties in tackles and ranks 2nd in passes defensed. If NYG designates Vernon a post 6.1 release they save 15.5 million..

I presume you are referring to OV's release next year as a post 6/1 release. Yes, they will save $15.5M and spread the $8M dead cap hit over 2019 and 2020. Or they can just rip the band-aid off at once next year and eat the $8M and save $11.5M.

Not only is he one of our best players but all you end up doing is having another hole to fill on a team with a bunch of holes already

In comment 14116086 Doomster said:

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since 2016....

Led the team in tackles by a good margin last year and had 2 of the 12 INT. 2016 was magical but he's a very good player still

Also leads team on tackles this year

An actual FS to work with before we start bashing him for �trying to do to much�? Deionte Thompson and Landon Collins at Safety next year would be dangerous.

OV is in the crosshairs. He'll have to play at an all pro level over the remainder of the season not to get cut next year. $8 Million in dead money but $11.5 Million cap savings.

Is we keep putting stiffs next to him at the other safety slot.

if we had a pass rush that could pressure the Quarterback and make him rush throws. With Vernon out, our guys do not get to the QB at all. The longer the secondary has to run around in coverage, the more likely they will let up plays.

In comment 14117365 GoDeep13 said:

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An actual FS to work with before we start bashing him for �trying to do to much�? Deionte Thompson and Landon Collins at Safety next year would be dangerous.

The problem is, to see what Landon Collins looks like as a Giant next to a competent FS, we are going to have to pay Collins Eric Berry money, then go out and draft a competent FS.

If Eli comes off the books, then it's possible, but $13m+ for a SS as inconsistent as Collins has been will be a tough sell. We can't be giving him retro pay for 2016. He needs to play better, right now.