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Sy'56's Giants-Panthers Game Review Now Available

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/9/2018 3:38 pm
FYI...
Game Review: Carolina Panthers 33 Ė New York Giants 31 - ( New Window )
THIS:  
Jints in Carolina : 10/9/2018 3:47 pm : link
Quote:
The lack of pass rush on this team is downright scary. It doesnít get discussed enough because there is such an unhealthy obsession to discuss Eli and his future replacements, etc. The NYG pass rush might be bottom 3 in the league from what I observe.


We were saying this all afternoon while watching the game.
I do see that Eli is getting a little more time, which he appears to  
Ira : 10/9/2018 3:53 pm : link
be taking advantage of. The run blocking, all in all, doesn't look very good. Now that we have a top running back, I think the next step in this team's offensive development is to improve the run blocking. A good young center would go a long way.
Pass rusher  
sshin05 : 10/9/2018 3:55 pm : link
should be a top priority in the next draft.
Eli Apple  
Fox : 10/9/2018 4:08 pm : link
Quote:
-Eli Apple returned to action, only allowing a couple catches. His technique in and out of his backpedal, and the body control he shows after making his reads, have been outstanding. Sure would be nice to see him further his development into a quality cornerback. He did miss 1 tackle on the day.


He also made a nice, physical play to force Cam Newton to fumble that got lost in the broadcast a bit due to everyone trying to determine if Riley recovered the ball in bounds. A nice play by Apple in a tough size match-up with Newton.
solid review as always ...  
Bluesbreaker : 10/9/2018 4:10 pm : link
Glad you placed Kareem Martin on the duds list he has shown
very little impact and the offsides was critical ..
Once Vernon is healthy enough to play it will be interesting
to see what kind of production we get out of him and Mauro .
Carter needs to bulk up a bit ..
Do we pay Collins big money ? I hope we don't last season he broke his arm going for kill shots .
Defense needs a tackling machine at LB an Edge rusher
and a top notch free safety . Players to me you don't see much in free agency besides Mack .
Look for O-line help in FA
Get some talent on the defense in the draft .
No offense Sy, but the defensive players are allowed to make plays  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/9/2018 4:12 pm : link
too. That play in the end zone with Odell wasn't a drop. Kill him for the other 2 plays (especially the punt), but Bradberry did an excellent job getting his arm in between Odell's. "The best will hold on"... come on.

As for the pass rush, they just don't have a lot of talent up front sans OV. Carter has speed, but he isn't remotely physically mature yet and the other guys are JAGs. The Panthers also seemed to be successful in slowing them down with fake handoffs to McCaffrey. Kareem Martin was just awful for the most part.

Might be bottom 3 in the league?  
mittenedman : 10/9/2018 4:14 pm : link
It's the worst. Connor Barwin, a rookie Lorenzo Carter, Kerry Wynn and Kareem Martin.

You won't find an NFL team with less pass rushers. Not even close.

------------------

Thanks to Sy for the review. I had some comments I wanted to post but will just add them here:

2 interesting schematics from Shurmur in the game:

*9:13 1st Quarter: Shurmur uses an unbalanced OL to the Right:

Ellison - Hernandez - Greco (C) - Omameh - Wheeler - Solder

Beckham in motion left to right. Everything about this play said it was going right. It went stretch left to Barkley, who lost 2 yards. But Ellison blocked Hernandez's guy instead of his. If not - Barkley's got a lot of open space to create. Great play design but poor execution. This is the type of creative stuff I was hoping for from Shurmur.

*The Panthers have an overaggressive rookie CB (Donte Jackson) who already has 3 INTs in his first 3 games. The Giants attacked him early with a sluggo - Jawill Davis misplayed the ball. But nice call by Shurmur, Jackson jumped the route & a nice deep throw by Eli. It was there. Again - nicely called by Shurmur.

*My weekly focusing on Will Hernandez: solid. He's grown up now. Strong as a bull out there, plays with nasty. Physical. Lined up against former 1st round pick DT Victor Butler and pretty much wiped him out. Butler got a couple of OK pass pressures and Hernandez whiffed on the big Barkley run, which Barkley spun around & turned into a huge play.

*I like Jawill Davis. He looks like a threat on KR and he settled down with some nice catches after misplaying the early deep ball. Could have something here as a solid role player #4 WR/special teams guy.

*Graham Gano's game winning 63 yard FG was his 35th consecutive make at home. Unreal.
Sy' - technical question.  
section125 : 10/9/2018 4:40 pm : link
Couple of were wondering if teams are run blitzing the Giants? Seems hard to believe that every running play has a defender in the back field. ARe teams putting 8 in the box, and just attacking the line because they don't fear Eli beating them or don't want Barkley to beat them?

Thanks. Usual great review.
Can't disagree with the lack of pass rush...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/9/2018 4:44 pm : link
although this isn't the week to point that out, imo. Cam is one of the most dangerous threats on the ground - I think he came in averaging over 40 yards rushing per game. Furthermore, he's a bully on the field, very difficult to bring down as one play showed him driving defenders backwards several yards to reach the first down marker.

Against a QB like Cam, a sound strategy is to keep him in the pocket and force him to win from there. The pass rush in such a strategy is likely to be minimal. That's not the overall objective.

Anyway, good review. I agree that the criticism of Beckham for "dropping" the ball in the end zone is a bit over the top. He caught the ball and while falling to the ground the defender had his arm positioned perfectly to knock it out. He might have kept the ball had he been able to move it to his left hand, but c'mon man, that just doesn't happen with any regularity. I just see a huge difference between a drop and what happened there.
Lack of pass rush is  
GIANTS128 : 10/9/2018 4:59 pm : link
appalling...really nothing to speak of. But its hard to win games when 2 duds are on the oline. Omameh looks to have been a really bad signing...Im not even sure John Jerry was as bad. Thats saying something.
seriously  
giantfan2000 : 10/9/2018 5:20 pm : link
why did giants get rid of all their pass rushers

JPP
Kennard
Okwara

and expect to have any pass rush
RE: seriously  
mdc1 : 10/9/2018 5:37 pm : link
In comment 14116250 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
why did giants get rid of all their pass rushers

JPP
Kennard
Okwara

and expect to have any pass rush


we signed Vernon
Solder is an upgrade but is clearly overpaid.  
Boy Cord : 10/9/2018 5:51 pm : link
Good news about Wheeler and Hernandez.
.  
Go Terps : 10/9/2018 5:58 pm : link
Quote:
The lack of pass rush on this team is downright scary. It doesnít get discussed enough because there is such an unhealthy obsession to discuss Eli and his future replacements, etc. The NYG pass rush might be bottom 3 in the league from what I observe.


I'd guess the Giants have, in 2018, allocated more of their cap space towards the pass rush than nearly every team in the league. $32M to JPP and Vernon alone this year represents 18% of the cap that has not contributed to anything.

If you want to analyze why this season looks lost, the mismanagement of cap funds in 2016 is a massive reason. Paying $3M to Jonathan Stewart sucks, but mistakes like that are a drop in the bucket compared to when the big contracts go wrong.

Huge errors ripple out over time, and none may have been bigger than paying Vernon and JPP. 2016 mistakes are killing us now in 2018.
JPP extension was a 2017 decision that Mara  
shyster : 10/9/2018 7:20 pm : link
publicly promoted while negotiations were still ongoing.

Vernon has been injured. He had a good training camp and exhibition season.

With Snacks and Jenkins pretty much performing as expected, wouldn't agree with pointing finger at 2016 FA decisions as blameworthy, let alone key to NYG's plight.
RE: No offense Sy, but the defensive players are allowed to make plays  
Sy'56 : 10/9/2018 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14116177 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
too. That play in the end zone with Odell wasn't a drop. Kill him for the other 2 plays (especially the punt), but Bradberry did an excellent job getting his arm in between Odell's. "The best will hold on"... come on.

As for the pass rush, they just don't have a lot of talent up front sans OV. Carter has speed, but he isn't remotely physically mature yet and the other guys are JAGs. The Panthers also seemed to be successful in slowing them down with fake handoffs to McCaffrey. Kareem Martin was just awful for the most part.


No offense taken.

In a 50/50 situation like that, Beckham, the highest paid WR in the NFL, needs to come down with it. Nice play like Bradberry, but the comes with the territory in my opinion.
RE: Sy' - technical question.  
Sy'56 : 10/9/2018 8:21 pm : link
In comment 14116210 section125 said:
Quote:
Couple of were wondering if teams are run blitzing the Giants? Seems hard to believe that every running play has a defender in the back field. ARe teams putting 8 in the box, and just attacking the line because they don't fear Eli beating them or don't want Barkley to beat them?

Thanks. Usual great review.


The guys in the backfield have more to do with OC/RG duo getting blown off the ball. That is one of the main measures I use in OL evaluation, the initial contact post-snap. They are both struggling there.
RE: Lack of pass rush is  
Simms11 : 10/9/2018 8:49 pm : link
In comment 14116233 GIANTS128 said:
Quote:
appalling...really nothing to speak of. But its hard to win games when 2 duds are on the oline. Omameh looks to have been a really bad signing...Im not even sure John Jerry was as bad. Thats saying something.


John Jerry was actually better in pass pro. Iíd give run blocking an even grade, but Omameh has been ehhhh, a Eliís average Guard. DG must have seen something in him, but he hasnít shown up at all IMO. At a minimum we need a solid Center and RG next off-season. Iím hoping Wheeler continues to improve and RT wonít be an immediate need.
every position is a top need on this team  
GiantsFan84 : 10/9/2018 9:08 pm : link
QB, OC, OG, OT, OLB, MLB, S
RE: RE: Sy' - technical question.  
section125 : 10/9/2018 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14116425 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14116210 section125 said:


Quote:


Couple of were wondering if teams are run blitzing the Giants? Seems hard to believe that every running play has a defender in the back field. ARe teams putting 8 in the box, and just attacking the line because they don't fear Eli beating them or don't want Barkley to beat them?

Thanks. Usual great review.



The guys in the backfield have more to do with OC/RG duo getting blown off the ball. That is one of the main measures I use in OL evaluation, the initial contact post-snap. They are both struggling there.


Thanks, really pathetic that they can't hold a block long enough to let Barkley at least get to the LOS on at least 75% of the snaps..
Great  
AcidTest : 10/9/2018 9:50 pm : link
review. Our DL are run stuffers, not pass rushers. The situation will be even worse next year if OV is cut. We have no speed off the edge. We aren't scaring OTs, which is incredible because OL play generally in the NFL is bad.
Just wanted to mention.......  
Simms11 : 10/9/2018 9:51 pm : link
that if Eli doesnít throw the one INT around the Panthers 30, the Giants would have been in range at a minimum for a FG. They were driving there. If the Giants scored there, even a FG, they win this game.
RE: Just wanted to mention.......  
dep026 : 10/9/2018 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14116738 Simms11 said:
Quote:
that if Eli doesnít throw the one INT around the Panthers 30, the Giants would have been in range at a minimum for a FG. They were driving there. If the Giants scored there, even a FG, they win this game.


Lol. Cause the entire 4th quarter would have gone the exact same way? This is very illogical thinking.

Itís like saying if OBJ doesnít fuck up on special teams, Carolina would have 7 less points and we would have won too.
RE: RE: Just wanted to mention.......  
section125 : 10/9/2018 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14116818 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14116738 Simms11 said:


Quote:


that if Eli doesnít throw the one INT around the Panthers 30, the Giants would have been in range at a minimum for a FG. They were driving there. If the Giants scored there, even a FG, they win this game.



Lol. Cause the entire 4th quarter would have gone the exact same way? This is very illogical thinking.

Itís like saying if OBJ doesnít fuck up on special teams, Carolina would have 7 less points and we would have won too.


and if the dog doesn't stop to take a shit, he catches the rabbit.
RE: RE: Just wanted to mention.......  
Simms11 : 10/9/2018 10:48 pm : link
In comment 14116818 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14116738 Simms11 said:


Quote:


that if Eli doesnít throw the one INT around the Panthers 30, the Giants would have been in range at a minimum for a FG. They were driving there. If the Giants scored there, even a FG, they win this game.



Lol. Cause the entire 4th quarter would have gone the exact same way? This is very illogical thinking.

Itís like saying if OBJ doesnít fuck up on special teams, Carolina would have 7 less points and we would have won too.


I suppose you could point to circumstances in every game that might change the outcome. All Iím saying is we had momentum there after getting the INT, and a FG on that drive could have been the difference.
RE: RE: RE: Just wanted to mention.......  
dep026 : 10/9/2018 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14116856 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14116818 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14116738 Simms11 said:


Quote:


that if Eli doesnít throw the one INT around the Panthers 30, the Giants would have been in range at a minimum for a FG. They were driving there. If the Giants scored there, even a FG, they win this game.



Lol. Cause the entire 4th quarter would have gone the exact same way? This is very illogical thinking.

Itís like saying if OBJ doesnít fuck up on special teams, Carolina would have 7 less points and we would have won too.



and if the dog doesn't stop to take a shit, he catches the rabbit.


But who doesnít like stopping to take a good shit though?
RE: Eli Apple  
Brick72 : 10/9/2018 11:55 pm : link
In comment 14116167 Fox said:
Quote:


Quote:


-Eli Apple returned to action, only allowing a couple catches. His technique in and out of his backpedal, and the body control he shows after making his reads, have been outstanding. Sure would be nice to see him further his development into a quality cornerback. He did miss 1 tackle on the day.

He also made a nice, physical play to force Cam Newton to fumble that got lost in the broadcast a bit due to everyone trying to determine if Riley recovered the ball in bounds. A nice play by Apple in a tough size match-up with Newton.

Apple has the tools (speed, body control, tenacity, tackling ability) to be a special corner. He needs to develop his ball awareness and eliminate his tendency to grab. With the right training we'll see a special CB. He seems to have put last year aside. Kudos for that; it couldn't have been easy. Something tells me he's starting to believe in himself. Time will tell but a complete Apple paired with Jenkins could be real fun to watch.
Every morning,  
section125 : 10/9/2018 11:56 pm : link
whether it is needed or not...


well it is always needed.
RE: RE: RE: Just wanted to mention.......  
Brick72 : 10/10/2018 12:10 am : link
In comment 14116856 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14116818 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14116738 Simms11 said:


Quote:


that if Eli doesnít throw the one INT around the Panthers 30, the Giants would have been in range at a minimum for a FG. They were driving there. If the Giants scored there, even a FG, they win this game.



Lol. Cause the entire 4th quarter would have gone the exact same way? This is very illogical thinking.

Itís like saying if OBJ doesnít fuck up on special teams, Carolina would have 7 less points and we would have won too.



and if the dog doesn't stop to take a shit, he catches the rabbit.

Well if the rabbit sees the dog taking a shit it might figure it has time to take one too. A rabbit shit has to be quicker than a dog shit, so the dog still doesn't catch the rabbit. :-)
RE: RE: RE: RE: Just wanted to mention.......  
section125 : 10/10/2018 7:17 am : link
In comment 14117115 Brick72 said:
Quote:


Well if the rabbit sees the dog taking a shit it might figure it has time to take one too. A rabbit shit has to be quicker than a dog shit, so the dog still doesn't catch the rabbit. :-)


No the rabbit was prepared and shit before....
Doesn't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/10/2018 8:27 am : link
the rabbit shit raisins that makes the dog stop to check them out?
Again with the "drop"  
RollBlue : 10/10/2018 8:39 am : link
by OBJ in the end zone??? There isn't a receiver on the planet that holds onto that. You lose some credibility arguing otherwise - period! As mentioned, he also broke up another sure int on a piss poor throw by Eli - something I have rarely seen out of our WRs over the years. That was a huge play.
RE: Doesn't..  
Jints in Carolina : 10/10/2018 8:43 am : link
In comment 14117236 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the rabbit shit raisins that makes the dog stop to check them out?


I do love a good raisin.
After Five Games...  
M.S. : 10/10/2018 10:05 am : link

...with Sy'56 identifying three Duds per game, that leads to 15 total Duds (5 * 3).

8 off the 15 Duds have been along the offensive line:

Flowers (1)
Hernandez (1)
Omameh (2)
Solder (1)
Greco (2)
Wheeler (1)

In other words, 53.3% of the Duds have been offensive lineman. And given that the O-line represent 5 out of 22 players (or 22.7%), our O-line has generated Top 3 Dud performances at more than double the rate that we would expect.

On the plus side, Sy'56 has selected Will Hernandez twice as a Stud performer.


RE: Again with the  
dep026 : 10/10/2018 10:08 am : link
In comment 14117253 RollBlue said:
Quote:
by OBJ in the end zone??? There isn't a receiver on the planet that holds onto that. You lose some credibility arguing otherwise - period! As mentioned, he also broke up another sure int on a piss poor throw by Eli - something I have rarely seen out of our WRs over the years. That was a huge play.


It would have been a tough play, but it is a play made by a lot of WRs. If you ask OBJ, he will tell you that he should have hung onto it.
RE: Again with the  
Sy'56 : 10/10/2018 10:44 am : link
In comment 14117253 RollBlue said:
Quote:
by OBJ in the end zone??? There isn't a receiver on the planet that holds onto that. You lose some credibility arguing otherwise - period! As mentioned, he also broke up another sure int on a piss poor throw by Eli - something I have rarely seen out of our WRs over the years. That was a huge play.


David Tyree. Half-kidding...

But the credibility discussion can go elsewhere...we don't need to get in to that.

I have seen WRs make that catch, and so have you.
RE: RE: Again with the  
giants#1 : 10/10/2018 10:54 am : link
In comment 14117435 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14117253 RollBlue said:


Quote:


by OBJ in the end zone??? There isn't a receiver on the planet that holds onto that. You lose some credibility arguing otherwise - period! As mentioned, he also broke up another sure int on a piss poor throw by Eli - something I have rarely seen out of our WRs over the years. That was a huge play.



David Tyree. Half-kidding...

But the credibility discussion can go elsewhere...we don't need to get in to that.

I have seen WRs make that catch, and so have you.


Beckham's TD catch wasn't exactly uncontested. Not quite as easy for the CB to make a play on, but it was still a great play by Beckham to make the contested grab in traffic.

Sy  
Jay on the Island : 10/10/2018 11:48 am : link
Is there any chance we see Evan Brown this season at center? He was my favorite UDFA pickup this offseason and he did impress during OTA's. Did you watch him much in the preseason and if so how do you think he looked? I am assuming he needs a year in the weight room before he is ready to compete for playing time but I do like his upside. He could be an O'Hara or Seubert type.
Great write up.  
Crispino : 10/10/2018 1:12 pm : link
Insightful and extremely well written. Some major publication needs to hire Dave as a writer. Heís better than any beat writer Iíve read. Thanks for doing these Dave.
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