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Papa/Diehl absolutely rip Flowers..

That’s Gold, Jerry : 10/10/2018 7:55 am
this morning on NFL Radio on Sirius. They talked about how, after losing his job, he showed absolutely no interest in fighting to get his job back. He would stand on the sidelines, totally uninterested, chewing sunflower seeds.

They also talked about how the Giants (aka Reese/Ross etc.) basically sided with Flowers over well respected offensive line coaches such as Flaherty and Solari. Apparently, both tried to get through to Flowers that his technique was awful (dropping his head, grabbing) and Flowers steadfastly refused to alter his technique or change his approach. Flats and Flowers butted heads on numerous occasions. They basically said Flowers is a mental midget.

They suspect someone may take a flyer on him just as depth. They said it says a lot when a team that has OL issues or has had them is willing to cut ties with a player who was a no. 9 overall draft pick.

I think we gain on this strictly by not having him around. My son and I have been talking about this...that getting rid of him would send a message to the locker room and this was definitely a case of addition by subtraction.
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Even for us fans, that's one less negative thing to think about  
Ira : 10/10/2018 8:03 am : link
regarding the Giants.
My disgust for Jerry Reese  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 10/10/2018 8:04 am : link
continues to grow each day.
I can't  
crick n NC : 10/10/2018 8:06 am : link
Imagine flowers spreading any positivity in that locker room
Just look at his benching...  
Chris684 : 10/10/2018 8:07 am : link
There has been a pretty steady improvement in the week's since they sit his ass down.

Are we going to be confused with the best OL in football? No.

But at least we know the guys out there are competing.
Flowers  
AcidTest : 10/10/2018 8:13 am : link
was a classic Reese "measurables" pick. Fantastic size and strength. Coughlin called him an aircraft carrier. But he couldn't play. Neither could Brewer (huge size), Petrus (set the combine record for the bench press IIRC), McCants (giant arms), Herman (incredibly strong), Robinson (JPP of TEs), OO (Adonis physique), etc.
Did he take the Wonderlic?  
BigBlue4You09 : 10/10/2018 8:15 am : link
Was probably around a 3. Dumb, fat, lazy TRASH. Reese was so terrible, good riddance to both.
Flowers  
stretch234 : 10/10/2018 8:15 am : link
The whipping boy is gone. It got F'd up from the start with him forced to play LT - amazingly, his R year was his best year

I have said on many occasions, the Giants are the only team in the last 6 or so years that has not developed any OL. Every other NFL team has UDFA guys and late round picks who are serviceable. This is now 3 coaching staffs that have not done anything

He is not the 1st and will not be the last top 10 OL miss
RE: Flowers  
JohnB : 10/10/2018 8:22 am : link
In comment 14117222 AcidTest said:
Quote:
was a classic Reese "measurables" pick. Fantastic size and strength. Coughlin called him an aircraft carrier. But he couldn't play. Neither could Brewer (huge size), Petrus (set the combine record for the bench press IIRC), McCants (giant arms), Herman (incredibly strong), Robinson (JPP of TEs), OO (Adonis physique), etc.


Spot on!!

As the years went on, Reese took potential over production, size and strength over skills. Maybe it was easier (he got lazy?) to scout by looking size/speed aspect instead of digging in and finding football players.
RE: Flowers  
BigBlue4You09 : 10/10/2018 8:23 am : link
In comment 14117224 stretch234 said:
Quote:
The whipping boy is gone. It got F'd up from the start with him forced to play LT - amazingly, his R year was his best year

I have said on many occasions, the Giants are the only team in the last 6 or so years that has not developed any OL. Every other NFL team has UDFA guys and late round picks who are serviceable. This is now 3 coaching staffs that have not done anything

He is not the 1st and will not be the last top 10 OL miss


Wait, you’re including the current staff 5 games in with one draft? And saying they will draft another bust in the top 10? Wtf?
Flowers is gone...  
BamaBlue : 10/10/2018 8:24 am : link
now can we stay on message and trash Eli!?
Every other NFL team has UDFA guys  
arniefez : 10/10/2018 8:28 am : link
Not just OL UDFA's but punters, returners, ST players, etc. The PK seems to be a good find they didn't have to waste a draft pick on but he's about the only one.
I love how it’s all Reese  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/10/2018 8:28 am : link
Coughlin definitely had input on our first round pick as well. John Mara has the tie breaker vote.

We were desperate to get better in the Oline. They all reached.
RE: Flowers is gone...  
Diver_Down : 10/10/2018 8:36 am : link
In comment 14117232 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
now can we stay on message and trash Eli!?


It hasn't stopped BBI before so I expect the trend will continue.
RE: I love how it’s all Reese  
Skully88 : 10/10/2018 8:37 am : link
In comment 14117239 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Coughlin definitely had input on our first round pick as well. John Mara has the tie breaker vote.

We were desperate to get better in the Oline. They all reached.


From 2007 to 2017 Jerry Reese was in charge of drafting for the NY Football Giants. Today there are 9 Reese picks left on the active roster. I'm not sure on the shelf life of BJ Goodson or Z DeOssie either.

Yes there may have been group input on some picks but yes... It is all Reese.
RE: RE: I love how it’s all Reese  
Mdgiantsfan : 10/10/2018 8:44 am : link
In comment 14117249 Skully88 said:
Quote:
In comment 14117239 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


Coughlin definitely had input on our first round pick as well. John Mara has the tie breaker vote.

We were desperate to get better in the Oline. They all reached.



From 2007 to 2017 Jerry Reese was in charge of drafting for the NY Football Giants. Today there are 9 Reese picks left on the active roster. I'm not sure on the shelf life of BJ Goodson or Z DeOssie either.

Yes there may have been group input on some picks but yes... It is all Reese.


He had a hand in 2 Lombardi trophies as well!
RE: I love how it’s all Reese  
chuckydee9 : 10/10/2018 8:46 am : link
In comment 14117239 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Coughlin definitely had input on our first round pick as well. John Mara has the tie breaker vote.

We were desperate to get better in the Oline. They all reached.


Surely sounds like coaches who reported to TC didn't like Flowers.. I am not sure why TC would force Flowers on them if they didn't like him.. It sounds like a GM problem.. its his job to do the scouting and draft players.. yes others have input.. but others also have many other responsibilities.. Drafting and bringing in players was JR's main responsibility.. hence he gets most of the blame..
RE: RE: RE: I love how it’s all Reese  
Skully88 : 10/10/2018 8:50 am : link
In comment 14117256 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
In comment 14117249 Skully88 said:


Quote:

And in the midst of the 7th season since the last one. What is record since?


In comment 14117239 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


Coughlin definitely had input on our first round pick as well. John Mara has the tie breaker vote.

We were desperate to get better in the Oline. They all reached.



From 2007 to 2017 Jerry Reese was in charge of drafting for the NY Football Giants. Today there are 9 Reese picks left on the active roster. I'm not sure on the shelf life of BJ Goodson or Z DeOssie either.

Yes there may have been group input on some picks but yes... It is all Reese.



He had a hand in 2 Lombardi trophies as well!
Just don’t understand how Reese and Ross  
BBelle21 : 10/10/2018 8:58 am : link
Could side with Flowers over protecting their franchise QB who is a classic pocket passer. Why would they be that negligent? Were their egos so sensitive that they couldn’t admit the mistake and move on? Or were they thinking Flowers being as awful as he was, could do their dirty work for them and get Eli on IR (half joking here).

Just ugly stuff going on behind the scenes with that previous regime after Coughlin was kicked out the door.
RE: My disgust for Jerry Reese  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/10/2018 9:00 am : link
In comment 14117218 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
continues to grow each day.

Why did he and the FO have more complete immunity than Jeff Fisher and his pedo moustache while the coaches and Eli were being thrown under the bus? Where did he come up with his Al Davis style roster buildimg that set this franchise back 10 years?
Wanna know how good my memory is?  
Dan in the Springs : 10/10/2018 9:07 am : link
I can remember when the general consensus on BBI was that at least we had Flowers on the OL - a real building block for the future.

Okay, that lasted all of a few weeks or maybe a couple of months.
Many good posters here  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 10/10/2018 9:08 am : link
said Reese would have a new job 24 hours after his firing. I’m still waiting.
And yet on numerous  
joeinpa : 10/10/2018 9:14 am : link
Occasions I have heard Diehl and Papa defend Flowers

Guess it s only ok to share behind the scenes knowledge after a guy is no longer a Giant. Same about the Reese thing taking Flowers side over the coaches, pretty significant issue to only be hear of it now.

I expect this type of reporting from guys like Dottino, disappointed in Papa. I always felt he was a perspective we could trust.
Flowers was the EXPECTED pick by many...  
x meadowlander : 10/10/2018 9:18 am : link
...included multiple media outlets. Unlike Eli Apple, NOBODY was shocked by the pick, particularly given how the draft fell. Yes, we knew there were technique issues, but he was VERY young and it was presumed he would be able to overcome his shortcomings.

The way people act here is as though he was forecast as a 4th rounder or something. Yes, it was a need pick, yes, it can be argued that it was a bad pick, but at the time, I recall this site being roughly 95% on board and STOKED.

It isn't like Flowers was a shocker, like Eli Apple. A sad day.
RE: And yet on numerous  
crick n NC : 10/10/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 14117287 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Occasions I have heard Diehl and Papa defend Flowers

Guess it s only ok to share behind the scenes knowledge after a guy is no longer a Giant. Same about the Reese thing taking Flowers side over the coaches, pretty significant issue to only be hear of it now.

I expect this type of reporting from guys like Dottino, disappointed in Papa. I always felt he was a perspective we could trust.


I'd say they were defending him when it was warranted. As bad as flowers was, not everything was his fault. There were probably actual times when it looked his screw up, but in fact it was another player's mistake.
I still want to know what caused them to cut him during the season  
montanagiant : 10/10/2018 9:20 am : link
Did he refuse to play? To practice?

What exactly led them to decide we just need to dump this loser?
RE: I still want to know what caused them to cut him during the season  
crick n NC : 10/10/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 14117295 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Did he refuse to play? To practice?

What exactly led them to decide we just need to dump this loser?


One possible factor is locker room negativity. The giants seem motivated to clean the team of negativity, rightfully so.
RE: I still want to know what caused them to cut him during the season  
jnoble : 10/10/2018 9:25 am : link
In comment 14117295 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Did he refuse to play? To practice?

What exactly led them to decide we just need to dump this loser?

I'm guessing like Papa and David D pointed out it was his sour lazy attitude
Seemed to me he was more helpful  
Jimmy Googs : 10/10/2018 9:29 am : link
on the sideline the last few weeks...
RE: Flowers was the EXPECTED pick by many...  
Beezer : 10/10/2018 9:33 am : link
In comment 14117292 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...included multiple media outlets. Unlike Eli Apple, NOBODY was shocked by the pick, particularly given how the draft fell. Yes, we knew there were technique issues, but he was VERY young and it was presumed he would be able to overcome his shortcomings.

The way people act here is as though he was forecast as a 4th rounder or something. Yes, it was a need pick, yes, it can be argued that it was a bad pick, but at the time, I recall this site being roughly 95% on board and STOKED.

It isn't like Flowers was a shocker, like Eli Apple. A sad day.


For some, as I recall, the toughest thing about it was that he was the pick while Todd Gurley was still on the board.
Don't These Guys  
wonderback : 10/10/2018 9:35 am : link
Get a personal interview? Seems like if you're picking a guy #9 you want to make sure all the boxes are checked. How could you interview this guy and not see the personality deficiencies we all see in him today. Really a mystery. Somebody really fell down on the job here.
Played with High Ankle Sprain  
Samiam : 10/10/2018 9:37 am : link
As a rookie didn’t miss a game with that injury? Everyone was impressed with that and he had a decent year. A year later, he stayed in NJ (with Hart) to work out in the off season with the team which I think for Florida guys is a big deal. Something happened in his attitude or work ethic the last years. The big lesson here I think is don’t draft for need. This was a case with the draft pundits had it right
RE: I still want to know what caused them to cut him during the season  
truebluelarry : 10/10/2018 9:42 am : link
In comment 14117295 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Did he refuse to play? To practice?

What exactly led them to decide we just need to dump this loser?


And they cut him on a short week!
If not for the guaranteed contract..  
Milton : 10/10/2018 9:47 am : link
I think Gettleman would've cut Flowers along with Hart last December.
p.s.--Who would've thought guys with names like Flowers and Hart would be such assholes?
When you side with unproven, lazy players  
Mr. Bungle : 10/10/2018 10:00 am : link
over experienced, proven coaches, you get what you deserve.
Idk  
BBelle21 : 10/10/2018 10:03 am : link
I’ve heard Papa and Diehl rip Flowers on many occasions throughout his time here. He frustrated many Giants.
Another kick in the nuts  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/10/2018 10:14 am : link
Reese threw under the bus respected Oline coaches Flaherty and Solari, and we're kind of stuck with meh n00b Hunter. Line might have gelled guider this year with some continuity.
RE: RE: Flowers was the EXPECTED pick by many...  
Big Blue '56 : 10/10/2018 10:22 am : link
In comment 14117314 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14117292 x meadowlander said:


Quote:


...included multiple media outlets. Unlike Eli Apple, NOBODY was shocked by the pick, particularly given how the draft fell. Yes, we knew there were technique issues, but he was VERY young and it was presumed he would be able to overcome his shortcomings.

The way people act here is as though he was forecast as a 4th rounder or something. Yes, it was a need pick, yes, it can be argued that it was a bad pick, but at the time, I recall this site being roughly 95% on board and STOKED.

It isn't like Flowers was a shocker, like Eli Apple. A sad day.



For some, as I recall, the toughest thing about it was that he was the pick while Todd Gurley was still on the board.


I think, AT THE TIME, many (most) here thought he might be damaged goods. As of now, they were obviously wrong
I wondered if this was a bit of a jealousy pick too  
GiantNatty : 10/10/2018 10:23 am : link
I think the Giants were surprised by how well Tyron Smith has played and how he helped to solidify a very good offensive line in Dallas. It felt like the Giants wanted the same thing from Flowers so the projected onto him what they saw in Smith. But yes, they were wrong.
Flowers was projected to be a 1st round draft choice  
arniefez : 10/10/2018 10:31 am : link
but not a top 10 pick. There's always so much conflicting information about draft picks and we know how much of a crap shoot the draft is. Unfortunately all the people who pointed out Flowers weaknesses in college were correct.

The year before they drafted Beckum and there were a lot of fans who wanted Aaron Donald or Zack Martin instead. Everyone was right on that one all 3 guys are great.

If you look at 2015 the year Flowers was drafted there are only 4 players drafted after him in rounds 1 & 2 that made a pro bowl. 2 RB's and 2 DB's one of which is Landon Collins.

The Giants drafted for need and didn't work out.
The failures are more than Flowers  
Gregorio : 10/10/2018 10:35 am : link
For Papa/Diehl to focus blame on the player, isn't accurate. Gotta hold the scouts accountable. Were they so desperate for OL help they disregarded the difficulty to coach him? Or, did they not foresee he could not be coached? This is a scouting failure as much as a player failure.
I can admit when I was wrong  
Jay on the Island : 10/10/2018 11:05 am : link
I thought it was the right move to get rid of Flaherty. During his tenure he failed to develop any of the offensive linemen that Reese and Ross brought in. It is clear that it wasn't Flaherty who was to blame but Reese and Ross for bringing in the wrong prospects.

I was thrilled when Solari was hired but he too could not get anything out of Flowers. Solari was the OL coach for the great KC lines of the early 2000's. It is hard to defend a draft pick that refused to learn from two of the better and more respected OL coaches in the NFL. Fuck you Flowers.
Think about it  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/10/2018 11:08 am : link
Draft pundits, who don't interview prospects, rated him a late 1st round project. After interviewing him, we graded him a high 1st round pick. What's wrong with this picture?
Wrath of Reese  
royhobbs7 : 10/10/2018 11:08 am : link
What was so horrible about the previous administration was the arrogance of both Reese and Ross. When questioned about the Eli Apple pick, Ross came out and vilified the fans; he asserted that they knew NOTHING!
Moreover, Reese stubbornly stood by his draft picks long after it was ascertained that they were floundering. In particular, Flowers was his most flagrant error that he continued to be insistent with (because of his big ego - i.e., Reese's implication that, "I don't make mistakes with draft choices" - also see Adrian Robinson, Mykkele Thompson & Jay Bromley among others).
Consequently, we are feeling the "Wrath of Reese", as Giants' fans. It will be at least two more years (if we're lucky and Gettleman sets the ship on the right course) before this franchise is securely turned around.
RE: Think about it  
royhobbs7 : 10/10/2018 11:12 am : link
In comment 14117486 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
Draft pundits, who don't interview prospects, rated him a late 1st round project. After interviewing him, we graded him a high 1st round pick. What's wrong with this picture?


Similarly, there were chuckles around other teams' war rooms when the Giants drafted DT Jay Bromley with the 3rd Rd pick in 2015(?).
RE: RE: Think about it  
royhobbs7 : 10/10/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 14117495 royhobbs7 said:
Quote:
In comment 14117486 Coach Red Beaulieu said:


Quote:


Draft pundits, who don't interview prospects, rated him a late 1st round project. After interviewing him, we graded him a high 1st round pick. What's wrong with this picture?



Similarly, there were chuckles around other teams' war rooms when the Giants drafted DT Jay Bromley with the 3rd Rd pick in 2015(?).


sic: Bromley was drafted in 2014.
My  
AcidTest : 10/10/2018 11:27 am : link
recollection is that the Bears were interested in Bromley, and Marvin Austin, but I admit I'm not sure. In any event, most people and pundits were startled that the Giants nonetheless took him in the third. Even Bromley was surprised. He thought he'd be drafted on day three.
RE: I still want to know what caused them to cut him during the season  
Carson53 : 10/10/2018 11:29 am : link
In comment 14117295 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Did he refuse to play? To practice?

What exactly led them to decide we just need to dump this loser?
.

I would hedge a guess, his attitude or being indifferent.
You saw him just standing on the sidelines during games,
seemingly with no interest. I can only wonder how practice went with this guy, once he lost his job...
RE: My  
Jay on the Island : 10/10/2018 11:29 am : link
In comment 14117515 AcidTest said:
Quote:
recollection is that the Bears were interested in Bromley, and Marvin Austin, but I admit I'm not sure. In any event, most people and pundits were startled that the Giants nonetheless took him in the third. Even Bromley was surprised. He thought he'd be drafted on day three.

Lovie Smith was reportedly very high on Marvin Austin in the draft. He would have taken him if the Giants passed.
what are the long term track records of other franchises  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/10/2018 11:32 am : link
with 1st round picks, (or any round picks for that matter)?

Maybe drafting is more akin to hitting in baseball. You're going to strike out a lot more often than you'll hit a home run.
Yeah, that was a real message.....  
Doomster : 10/10/2018 12:01 pm : link
That took 4 years....."If you suck, you will be cut!"

Just like Robinson, Jernigan, etc.
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