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NFT: Casino Gamblers, what are some tips at a blackjack table?

LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/10/2018 3:53 pm
I don't want to read a 100 page book about blackjack ettiquete. Figured I'd get a few pointers from some of you guys on what to do/not do to piss off the other players at the table?

When to hit/not hit, dealer shows XX, etc.
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RE: RE: RE: RE: So when I learned about the Martingale system  
NoGainDayne : 10/10/2018 6:21 pm : link
In comment 14118049 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14118034 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:




You essentially bet the minimum or a standard amount for every hand when you are up. If you ever go down you keep doubling the amount you lost until you break even. The odds of losing 8 hands in a row are 1/173 (all things equal, better strategy can increase this) So if you start out with a $10 bet then go, 20, 40, 80, 160, 320, 640, 1,080 that's all the capital you need to give you a high probability of not losing. And more money you can keep doubling and make it an even more minuscule chance.


Well other people must lack the discipline or capital. I've never lost big in all my years doing this. And i've one big a few times.

Sometimes I get bored and lose like under $100 because I just want to bet.



Youíve been fortunate. Eventually itís going to bite you in the ass.

One problem: youíre ignoring that thereís not just a table minimum, but a table maximum. At a $10 table, thatís generally $1000. So you canít mske that $1080 bet after your 7th loss. Much less continue after that if you got the bankroll.

Eventually youíre going to bust big.


I've gone to $5,120 before starting at $20. Since then I've always started at $10, I want the extra multiple. You can always find someone to take the bet. I'd go to the $20,480 level and stop there considering I've made over $10K using this strategy that wouldn't be bad. When I started I said I would be alright losing $10K and my limit has gone up from winning.

And i'm ok with that. I've had many good trips to Vegas. If I ultimately switched from up $10K to down $10K i'd be fine. I'd stop playing, start fresh next trip and be willing to go up to 10K again. I don't play that much. I'd probably just be willing to stop if I lost the other $10K before recouping a lot of my losses.

I guess it's just about discipline. I understand the game i'm playing and what's at stake.
If you insist of playing a system here's a good one  
Stan in LA : 10/10/2018 6:40 pm : link
It's short term of course but have never lost with it(used it maybe a dozen times) and some dealer's have said it's pretty good.

Start with a series of numbers, say 5's. Look like this:

5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Bet the 2 outside numbers every bet. If you win cross off those numbers. If you lose add the loss(in this case 10) to the number series. Over time you will be crossing out 2 numbers when you win and only adding 1 when you lose. In a 50-50 bet eventually you will cross out all the numbers and you will win the total of the original numbers. At that point either quit or start another series.

In the short term, you will usually win always win without risk associated the double your bet system advocated above. In practice, in addition to the dealers liking it above, a couple of pit bosses liked it as well and even said kiddingly, "Don't you think it's time to go now?"

Of course, over time you will hit that 'lose a whole bunch in a row' streak, but I haven't yet because I usually quit after a few series.

Try it at home flipping a coin and see...
make sure you sit at third base the last seat before the dealer  
gtt350 : 10/10/2018 8:08 pm : link
this way novices can't screw things up
New casinos have lots of n00b dealers  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/10/2018 8:11 pm : link
They make errors with payouts and reading the board.
RE: If you insist of playing a system here's a good one  
B in ALB : 10/10/2018 8:14 pm : link
In comment 14118165 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
It's short term of course but have never lost with it(used it maybe a dozen times) and some dealer's have said it's pretty good.

Start with a series of numbers, say 5's. Look like this:

5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Bet the 2 outside numbers every bet. If you win cross off those numbers. If you lose add the loss(in this case 10) to the number series. Over time you will be crossing out 2 numbers when you win and only adding 1 when you lose. In a 50-50 bet eventually you will cross out all the numbers and you will win the total of the original numbers. At that point either quit or start another series.

In the short term, you will usually win always win without risk associated the double your bet system advocated above. In practice, in addition to the dealers liking it above, a couple of pit bosses liked it as well and even said kiddingly, "Don't you think it's time to go now?"

Of course, over time you will hit that 'lose a whole bunch in a row' streak, but I haven't yet because I usually quit after a few series.

Try it at home flipping a coin and see...


Did you just completely plagiarize the Labourchere System?

You're hilarious.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So when I learned about the Martingale system  
YAJ2112 : 10/10/2018 11:16 pm : link
In comment 14118124 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 14118049 Jim in Fairfax said:


Quote:


In comment 14118034 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:




You essentially bet the minimum or a standard amount for every hand when you are up. If you ever go down you keep doubling the amount you lost until you break even. The odds of losing 8 hands in a row are 1/173 (all things equal, better strategy can increase this) So if you start out with a $10 bet then go, 20, 40, 80, 160, 320, 640, 1,080 that's all the capital you need to give you a high probability of not losing. And more money you can keep doubling and make it an even more minuscule chance.


Well other people must lack the discipline or capital. I've never lost big in all my years doing this. And i've one big a few times.

Sometimes I get bored and lose like under $100 because I just want to bet.



Youíve been fortunate. Eventually itís going to bite you in the ass.

One problem: youíre ignoring that thereís not just a table minimum, but a table maximum. At a $10 table, thatís generally $1000. So you canít mske that $1080 bet after your 7th loss. Much less continue after that if you got the bankroll.

Eventually youíre going to bust big.



I've gone to $5,120 before starting at $20. Since then I've always started at $10, I want the extra multiple. You can always find someone to take the bet. I'd go to the $20,480 level and stop there considering I've made over $10K using this strategy that wouldn't be bad. When I started I said I would be alright losing $10K and my limit has gone up from winning.

And i'm ok with that. I've had many good trips to Vegas. If I ultimately switched from up $10K to down $10K i'd be fine. I'd stop playing, start fresh next trip and be willing to go up to 10K again. I don't play that much. I'd probably just be willing to stop if I lost the other $10K before recouping a lot of my losses.

I guess it's just about discipline. I understand the game i'm playing and what's at stake.


If you start at $10 a hand, you end up with a net $10 win each time you win at the end of a series of hands doing the Martingale. You would have to run through 1000 sets of hands to win $10000. At 80 hands per hour, even being generous and giving you 40 resolved sets per hour, you'd still have to play for 25 hours to win $10K. You also should hit the 8 straight losses 6 times in that span.

Also, if you got to the 20,480 level and lost - you would have lost 40,950 in that series.

Just go with your gut.  
Boy Cord : 10/10/2018 11:41 pm : link
The other players at the table will love you.
RE: Just go with your gut.  
montanagiant : 10/11/2018 12:47 am : link
In comment 14118469 Boy Cord said:
Quote:
The other players at the table will love you.

LOL
Play roulette and pick a color ....  
short lease : 10/11/2018 12:58 am : link
you have a fifty fifty chance ... except for that dam green 0 or double 00.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So when I learned about the Martingale system  
NoGainDayne : 10/11/2018 1:12 am : link
In comment 14118460 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 14118124 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


In comment 14118049 Jim in Fairfax said:


Quote:


In comment 14118034 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:




You essentially bet the minimum or a standard amount for every hand when you are up. If you ever go down you keep doubling the amount you lost until you break even. The odds of losing 8 hands in a row are 1/173 (all things equal, better strategy can increase this) So if you start out with a $10 bet then go, 20, 40, 80, 160, 320, 640, 1,080 that's all the capital you need to give you a high probability of not losing. And more money you can keep doubling and make it an even more minuscule chance.


Well other people must lack the discipline or capital. I've never lost big in all my years doing this. And i've one big a few times.

Sometimes I get bored and lose like under $100 because I just want to bet.



Youíve been fortunate. Eventually itís going to bite you in the ass.

One problem: youíre ignoring that thereís not just a table minimum, but a table maximum. At a $10 table, thatís generally $1000. So you canít mske that $1080 bet after your 7th loss. Much less continue after that if you got the bankroll.

Eventually youíre going to bust big.



I've gone to $5,120 before starting at $20. Since then I've always started at $10, I want the extra multiple. You can always find someone to take the bet. I'd go to the $20,480 level and stop there considering I've made over $10K using this strategy that wouldn't be bad. When I started I said I would be alright losing $10K and my limit has gone up from winning.

And i'm ok with that. I've had many good trips to Vegas. If I ultimately switched from up $10K to down $10K i'd be fine. I'd stop playing, start fresh next trip and be willing to go up to 10K again. I don't play that much. I'd probably just be willing to stop if I lost the other $10K before recouping a lot of my losses.

I guess it's just about discipline. I understand the game i'm playing and what's at stake.



If you start at $10 a hand, you end up with a net $10 win each time you win at the end of a series of hands doing the Martingale. You would have to run through 1000 sets of hands to win $10000. At 80 hands per hour, even being generous and giving you 40 resolved sets per hour, you'd still have to play for 25 hours to win $10K. You also should hit the 8 straight losses 6 times in that span.

Also, if you got to the 20,480 level and lost - you would have lost 40,950 in that series.


Lol yes. You are right. Your numbers on the winning are right too, anecdotally and in the experience as I remember it. Definitely bet $1,080 about that many times and with my highest being $5,120. And I've probably played more than 25 hours, maybe 40 is a good guess.

I always had the 20K figure as the most i'd be willing to lose in one hand. I guess i'm a little flip on that profit number because blackjack is what I play with my friends, poker is what I play if i'm trying to win. I could take a 30K hit in just blackjack and still be up in my Vegas trips. That's not even counting all the poker I played online in high school and college. But that blackjack calculation was wrong for sure. And I did preface it by saying you needed the capital. Plenty of people can stomach losing more than 40K in a sitting.

I also think the odds are a little more in my favor. I won't say I can count all the cards but I've been playing 2 suited hands in pinochle since middle school. I'm not flying blind.
You must be playing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2018 7:11 am : link
a ton of high-stakes poker:

Quote:
I could take a 30K hit in just blackjack and still be up in my Vegas trips. That's not even counting all the poker I played online in high school and college. But that blackjack calculation was wrong for sure. And I did preface it by saying you needed the capital. Plenty of people can stomach losing more than 40K in a sitting.


I don't think I've had a losing trip to Vegas since I've started playing poker, but that's grinding out a couple grand playing $2/$4, some $5/$10 and playing mid-stakes tourneys.
What is the upside..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2018 7:15 am : link
of the Martindale System??

It seems like you are investing a ton of money to simply not go broke instead of trying to have a winning session.

If I'm reading it right, you only will ever win the minimum when up and could possibly lose thousands. Isn't it easier (and less risky) to simply set a loss floor and play a system that is likely to produce big wins?

Like I said above, I play the minimum when I lose and press bets when I win - which has resulted in a maximum loss of $200, but several sessions winning $500 or higher. And although the odds for blackjack are against you long-term, I'm up heavily overall
RE: If you insist of playing a system here's a good one  
EricJ : 10/11/2018 7:55 am : link
In comment 14118165 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
It's short term of course but have never lost with it(used it maybe a dozen times) and some dealer's have said it's pretty good.

Start with a series of numbers, say 5's. Look like this:

5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Bet the 2 outside numbers every bet. If you win cross off those numbers. If you lose add the loss(in this case 10) to the number series. Over time you will be crossing out 2 numbers when you win and only adding 1 when you lose. In a 50-50 bet eventually you will cross out all the numbers and you will win the total of the original numbers. At that point either quit or start another series.

In the short term, you will usually win always win without risk associated the double your bet system advocated above. In practice, in addition to the dealers liking it above, a couple of pit bosses liked it as well and even said kiddingly, "Don't you think it's time to go now?"

Of course, over time you will hit that 'lose a whole bunch in a row' streak, but I haven't yet because I usually quit after a few series.

Try it at home flipping a coin and see...


I think it is the way you tried to explain it here... but I dont know what the fuck you are saying.
Also  
YAJ2112 : 10/11/2018 9:25 am : link
it would be 1280 not 1080.
I actually..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2018 9:27 am : link
don't think I'd ever want to be risking a significant amount of money that is decided at the whim of the casino.

sure, I've seen them allow over the table max before, but I've also seen them put their foot down.

I'd hate to go place that large bet and have them step in and say "No dice".

I'm a blackjack girl  
jpennyva : 10/11/2018 10:03 am : link
and it's usually the only game I play in Vegas (I go at least once a year for work - the construction industry loves Vegas). I've never been to Atlantic City and heard that folks go to AC to try to make money and others go to Vegas for fun so AC players are more likely to get mad if you "don't follow the rules". The way I look at it, I go to a table to have fun and never allow myself to lose more than I can afford. If I'm at a fun table with a good dealer (a good/fun dealer can make all the difference) and other fun players, it can be an enjoyable time and if I lose, I figure I could have spent the same amount of money on a show - it's an entertainment cost. I would recommend starting off at a low minimum table - there are some casinos that even have a $5 minimum during the day.

My very first experience playing blackjack: I was 22 and in Vegas over the summer (not tourist season) and it was during the day. I made it clear I was a novice and everyone at the table and the dealer were extraordinarily nice in helping me to learn the game, but I was losing. I was at a $5 table and down to my last $20. I got two eights and split them. Then I got threes on both eights and of course doubled-down on them (I think the dealer was showing a bust card). I wind up with a 18 and 19 and dealer ultimately gets 20 so I lose both hands. One of the other player tosses me a $20 chip and says, "That was a learning experience so try again." A total stranger gave me $20 to help me keep learning. I lost that, too, unfortunately, but it still an overall positive first experience.

Have fun!
Upside is it helps you win frequently  
NoGainDayne : 10/11/2018 10:25 am : link
and yes I played a lot of poker when I was younger. Not as much time for it anymore, I havenít even been to Vegas in 4 years. I started in high school, for a moment I considered not going to college and just playing poker. One of the kids I played with turned pro and did well actually.

I wasnít far from Vegas in college, sometimes my friends and I would go randomly. I took a few extended trips where I only played poker. It was never a bad thing to be up in blackjack before playing poker. I always found it easier to be unpredictable with that running start. You could say martindale helped me leverage my poker.

As for the doubling I just did it live and had a max hand loss. That was my system.
Interesting thread.  
Giants in 07 : 10/11/2018 10:29 am : link
I also tend to stay on 16, Fatman. I know I'm sitting on a losing hand, but I still think it's better to be in the hand. I usually sit in the last seat and double every 8, 9 and 10 against a 6 or lower. Also double almost any soft against a 6 or lower

Never employed Martingale for blackjack since I usually play blackjack because I enjoy the game, the relaxed nature of the table, etc but I may try it next time.

I've used Martingale to success in sports betting and really loved the strategy of it.

Martingale is a good way to go broke  
YAJ2112 : 10/11/2018 10:37 am : link
while chasing $10 at a time.
YAJ..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2018 10:43 am : link
that's my impression too.

Basically seems like a strategy where you put a lot of money on the 1-500 favorite, collecting your dollar for every win, but then coming up against that massive upset that takes away all the winnings.

When I've used the strategy to add a chip on after every win and only play the minimum after a loss, I rely on winning streaks to build a stack, and I can get 5 hand winning streaks. Sometimes they go much longer.

Using Martingale, it seems like a long losing streak would potentially cripple one, not to mention that the casino might not even let you place the bet to cover the loss.

Furthermore, you might have to bring a suitcase of cash to stem the tide.

I don't really get it.
Craps  
Percy : 10/11/2018 10:45 am : link
Any room here for lessons in craps?

Blackjack in the end was too much work for me. Played Vegas almost every day (maybe 10-12 total days on three trips several years ago and it always exhausted me. Did what Fat Man recommends at to table stakes (have to get in early or they raise the minimum). Nice dealers are sort of fun, but rare. Others just whip your ass without breaking a smile. Net: probably lost about $300. Memory may be dimming reality here. Switched to craps on last trip and enjoyed it more, but I know zero about the game. Still, with craps winnings, I came out ahead at the tables overall on these trips, but not by much.
Table games favor the house  
Csonka : 10/11/2018 10:57 am : link
I just don't believe people who say they're winners at blackjack over a long period of time. Or craps, or roulette.
Sure, for a night or a weekend. But casinos are in business because the odds are in their favor.

Learn how to play poker. If you get good, you can actually beat people there.
Craps  
Jim in Fairfax : 10/11/2018 11:03 am : link
Unless you have the time and skill (and a big bankroll) to count cards in blackjack, craps has the best odds in the casino. You do have to learn the good bets from the bad in the game. But it's a much simpler game than it appears.
Csonka..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2018 11:04 am : link
a gambler's best friend is the ability to walk away after a loss. The casino's best friend are people who think they can beat the house and stay in that chair until they do or they go broke.

If you play any casino game with a hard stop point, you limit your loss, but will have sessions where you inevitably win. But the free drinks. The glitz. The euphoria from getting a blackjack, they all contribute to keep people playing.

I don't even play table games anymore unless I'm with a group of friends who want to, I stick to the poker room, but the resolve to walk away when losing, even in poker, can turn a losing player into a winning one, especially in a game like blackjack where the house's edge is a lot thinner than say roulette.
Casinos have zero benefit to not taking your bet  
NoGainDayne : 10/11/2018 11:23 am : link
disagree all you want but that part is ridiculous.

I still would double down that helps. And as I said I played 20 sometimes before my 5K experience. Also helped to have other gambling winnings. Felt like I wasnít risking my money in martindale.

I get it isnít for you but it is for some. And for me it was a great thing to play with friends and a great way to not lose money while spending time gambling with my friends. It was fun for all of us for me to do it.
RE: Casinos have zero benefit to not taking your bet  
YAJ2112 : 10/11/2018 11:32 am : link
In comment 14118966 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
disagree all you want but that part is ridiculous.

I still would double down that helps. And as I said I played 20 sometimes before my 5K experience. Also helped to have other gambling winnings. Felt like I wasnít risking my money in martindale.

I get it isnít for you but it is for some. And for me it was a great thing to play with friends and a great way to not lose money while spending time gambling with my friends. It was fun for all of us for me to do it.


Forgive me if I think you are full of shit, if for nothing else than you can't even keep simple things straight. It's MartinGale not MartinDale. One is a betting system that is doomed to failure in the long term though can produce small wins in the short term, the other is a game show host.
Lol seriously?  
NoGainDayne : 10/11/2018 11:39 am : link
ok mr. gambling investigator, i'm not a student of his. I literally googled doubling bets system at the start of the thread because I did not remember and I wanted to properly attribute the system to someone other than myself.

I think I was actually told of it originally as like a mathematical "paradox" that I also forgot the name of.

I've posted in poker threads over the years if you'd like to continue your investigation.

Martingale  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/11/2018 12:02 pm : link
cripples you when you are on a losing streak, have doubled your bet a few times, and then get a perfect double-down or split opportunity and then either bet too much to capitalize on it, or go for it and lose that hand as well.

Hand 1: $10 lose
Hand 2: $20 lose
Hand 3: $40, get Aces and dealer has a 6. Obviously, you split, where you get AA, A6. So now you have to split again (A4, A5), and then double down on all three hands if you want to take advantage of your situation where you have the edge. This is a great opportunity for you!! Now you have three hands going at $80 a hand.
Hand 3a:$80 A4+K (15)
Hand 3b:$80) A5+4 (20)
hand 3c:$80 A6+2 (19)
Dealer goes 6,5,Q. 21.


So now, in just 3 deals using a $10 Martingale strategy, you've lose $270.

It's a good thing that happened on hand 3, because if it happened on Hand 4, you would be down $550.

And all of that was in under five minutes at a full table where you only sat down for $10!!

Martingale philosophy is fool's gold and in a casino, a fool and his money are soon parted.
and if it were on Hand 5  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/11/2018 12:07 pm : link
that the big opportunity happened, and you lost... You would be down $1110 ($10+$20+40+$80+$960). Again, in 5 minutes of playing at $10 start.

Are you that prepared to make a bet at 100x the size of your original bet in just five minutes at the table?
I have a friend who uses a modified  
pjcas18 : 10/11/2018 12:15 pm : link
version of Martingale for roulette.

I wouldn't use it for blackjack because it's not a pure game of chance like roulette or craps, it requires decisions to be made by you and other people.

My buddies system is he only bets black.

He starts out and bets $200. And every win he continues to bet $200.

Evey loss he doubles it, so when he eventually wins, he's not breaking even, he's winning the amount of his standard bet.

I've seen him have to get pit boss approval to exceed the table limit and bet $6400 on the spin of a roulette wheel (for standard 5k limit tables).

You would need 6 non-black spins in a row to lose, it happens, but rarely, but more importantly you need to have a lot of cash and balls of steel (or stupidity).

Or he has to go to the high roller tables (which he usually does anyway).
I tried his system with $100 instead of $200.

I lost spin one, I put down $200, I lost spin two, and said "i'm out" I value money too much to put $400 on the spin of a roulette wheel.

he gets rooms comped regularly and is a VIP at Mohegan Sun. I've seen him get cracked, but more often than not he leaves there up a few grand.

That is a very specific scenario  
NoGainDayne : 10/11/2018 12:17 pm : link
and again if you have the capital, which is what i've said from the start (like i'm saying especially in my case where I have won money in other forms of gambling) it's fine for me. Willy Wonka meme be damned. Also gambling is about having fun, this was fun for me when I was younger.

This was not my career, I wasn't looking for ideal statistical analysis or game theory, especially because like I said I just wanted to hang out with my friends and play black jack continuously. Even in poker you can calculate all the pot odds you want but you are still putting people on hands too. Good, again, it's not for you, but i'm no fool. There isn't a wrong way to gamble, there is only a right way, the way you want.

I know plenty of people that don't mind burning through 500 on a craps table per night and they consider that just a cost of playing and going to Vegas. Not everyone is even playing to win.
Sorry should modify the last part  
NoGainDayne : 10/11/2018 12:20 pm : link
everyone is playing to win. Not everyone is playing expecting to win.
RE: I have a friend who uses a modified  
NoGainDayne : 10/11/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14119094 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
version of Martingale for roulette.

I wouldn't use it for blackjack because it's not a pure game of chance like roulette or craps, it requires decisions to be made by you and other people.

My buddies system is he only bets black.

He starts out and bets $200. And every win he continues to bet $200.

Evey loss he doubles it, so when he eventually wins, he's not breaking even, he's winning the amount of his standard bet.

I've seen him have to get pit boss approval to exceed the table limit and bet $6400 on the spin of a roulette wheel (for standard 5k limit tables).

You would need 6 non-black spins in a row to lose, it happens, but rarely, but more importantly you need to have a lot of cash and balls of steel (or stupidity).

Or he has to go to the high roller tables (which he usually does anyway).
I tried his system with $100 instead of $200.

I lost spin one, I put down $200, I lost spin two, and said "i'm out" I value money too much to put $400 on the spin of a roulette wheel.

he gets rooms comped regularly and is a VIP at Mohegan Sun. I've seen him get cracked, but more often than not he leaves there up a few grand.


Yes this is also a perk. I'm not here to brag. In fact i'm trying to avoid it but the casino detectives really want to take apart my case. He was asking for alternative ideas and again, I prefaced it by saying if you have the capital and discipline.
your original post about the Martingale  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/11/2018 12:32 pm : link
strategy was that you used it because winning money is fun even if the system takes the fun out of it.

My response is more of a PSA to those not familiar with it who think it's a sound strategy for making money.
But as YAJ said, Martingale is a way to go broke chasing $10 at a time (if that's the minimum bet).

It's Vegas, so the house always has an edge. But most people trade off that edge for the fun and adrenaline of playing.

But the Martingale strategy increases the size of your initial risk exponentially (when you are already disadvantaged) until you finally come close to breaking even (if you lose multiple hands in a row and then win, you're still down what you lost in those earlier hands), or lose so much that you can't afford or won't risk wagering twice as much as that. What people doing Martingale fail to consider is how often splitting and doubling happen, and how that only accelerates the pace of your play at the table.



I said some and I was speaking more generally  
NoGainDayne : 10/11/2018 12:43 pm : link
some people like to play more fast and loose. I ended with I found it fun.

I don't double down when i'm down. And you can absolutely play the probabilities on your splits to be in your favor, especially if you know what's been played as I've said I have some aptitude for.
OP, please don't do martingale betting  
Metnut : 10/11/2018 12:44 pm : link
It's a great way to either go broke or win small amounts. It's just a matter of time until you take a massive loss. Casinos salivate when they see someone trying martingale.
That's not how martingale  
pjcas18 : 10/11/2018 12:46 pm : link
works (at least as I understand it).

Once you break a losing streak you are up the amount of your initial bet, you don't "lose" earlier hands.

In roulette for example, in my buddies case:

he bets $200 each initial bet, when he wins he continues with $200.

He doubles it after each loss.

So when he breaks a losing streak he wins $200.

Assume these are losses (the running amount he's down will be in parenthesis)
Spin 1: $200 (200)
Spin 2: $400 (600)
Spin 3: $800 (1400)
Spin 3: $1600 (3000)
Spin 4: $3200 ** win** he's now up $200 and he starts over his system of betting $200 each spin.

Not sure if NGD is doing something different, but as I understand it, martingale is flawless if you have enough money, enough balls, and don't hit a table limit - on the pure chance games like roulette.

Usually people run out of money or hit a table limit that prevents them from coming out ahead.
RE: That's not how martingale  
YAJ2112 : 10/11/2018 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14119155 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
works (at least as I understand it).

Once you break a losing streak you are up the amount of your initial bet, you don't "lose" earlier hands.

In roulette for example, in my buddies case:

he bets $200 each initial bet, when he wins he continues with $200.

He doubles it after each loss.

So when he breaks a losing streak he wins $200.

Assume these are losses (the running amount he's down will be in parenthesis)
Spin 1: $200 (200)
Spin 2: $400 (600)
Spin 3: $800 (1400)
Spin 3: $1600 (3000)
Spin 4: $3200 ** win** he's now up $200 and he starts over his system of betting $200 each spin.

Not sure if NGD is doing something different, but as I understand it, martingale is flawless if you have enough money, enough balls, and don't hit a table limit - on the pure chance games like roulette.

Usually people run out of money or hit a table limit that prevents them from coming out ahead.


How much does your buddy buy in at the table with? In your scenario, he would have had to have at least 6,200.

NGD would have had to have at least 10,230 for the time he got to the 5,120 bet and apparently have up to 40,950 since he's prepared to lose the 20K bet.
pjcas  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/11/2018 1:16 pm : link
ignore that part in my post. Brainfart.


RE: RE: That's not how martingale  
pjcas18 : 10/11/2018 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14119215 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 14119155 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


works (at least as I understand it).

Once you break a losing streak you are up the amount of your initial bet, you don't "lose" earlier hands.

In roulette for example, in my buddies case:

he bets $200 each initial bet, when he wins he continues with $200.

He doubles it after each loss.

So when he breaks a losing streak he wins $200.

Assume these are losses (the running amount he's down will be in parenthesis)
Spin 1: $200 (200)
Spin 2: $400 (600)
Spin 3: $800 (1400)
Spin 3: $1600 (3000)
Spin 4: $3200 ** win** he's now up $200 and he starts over his system of betting $200 each spin.

Not sure if NGD is doing something different, but as I understand it, martingale is flawless if you have enough money, enough balls, and don't hit a table limit - on the pure chance games like roulette.

Usually people run out of money or hit a table limit that prevents them from coming out ahead.



How much does your buddy buy in at the table with? In your scenario, he would have had to have at least 6,200.

NGD would have had to have at least 10,230 for the time he got to the 5,120 bet and apparently have up to 40,950 since he's prepared to lose the 20K bet.

Not sure, I think he buys in $10k
RE: I said some and I was speaking more generally  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/11/2018 1:28 pm : link
In comment 14119149 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
some people like to play more fast and loose. I ended with I found it fun.

I don't double down when i'm down. And you can absolutely play the probabilities on your splits to be in your favor, especially if you know what's been played as I've said I have some aptitude for.


It's your money and you can obviously do whatever you want with it. But this doesn't really make sense to me.

So if you lose Hand 1, you'll double your wager on Hand 2. And if you lose Hand 2, you'll double your wager on Hand 3, etc. So you're willing to double your bet "the next hand" during a losing streak where you are going into that hand with no information and are a slight dog (house edge).

But you won't double your wager during a hand during a losing streak (by doubling down) where you have the edge over the house?
RE: RE: If you insist of playing a system here's a good one  
Stan in LA : 10/11/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14118319 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 14118165 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


It's short term of course but have never lost with it(used it maybe a dozen times) and some dealer's have said it's pretty good.

Start with a series of numbers, say 5's. Look like this:

5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Bet the 2 outside numbers every bet. If you win cross off those numbers. If you lose add the loss(in this case 10) to the number series. Over time you will be crossing out 2 numbers when you win and only adding 1 when you lose. In a 50-50 bet eventually you will cross out all the numbers and you will win the total of the original numbers. At that point either quit or start another series.

In the short term, you will usually win always win without risk associated the double your bet system advocated above. In practice, in addition to the dealers liking it above, a couple of pit bosses liked it as well and even said kiddingly, "Don't you think it's time to go now?"

Of course, over time you will hit that 'lose a whole bunch in a row' streak, but I haven't yet because I usually quit after a few series.

Try it at home flipping a coin and see...



Did you just completely plagiarize the Labourchere System?

You're hilarious.


Don't be an idiot as you usually are. Where did I say I invented this system? Waiting...
RE: RE: I said some and I was speaking more generally  
Metnut : 10/11/2018 1:43 pm : link
In comment 14119256 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
In comment 14119149 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


some people like to play more fast and loose. I ended with I found it fun.

I don't double down when i'm down. And you can absolutely play the probabilities on your splits to be in your favor, especially if you know what's been played as I've said I have some aptitude for.



It's your money and you can obviously do whatever you want with it. But this doesn't really make sense to me.

So if you lose Hand 1, you'll double your wager on Hand 2. And if you lose Hand 2, you'll double your wager on Hand 3, etc. So you're willing to double your bet "the next hand" during a losing streak where you are going into that hand with no information and are a slight dog (house edge).

But you won't double your wager during a hand during a losing streak (by doubling down) where you have the edge over the house?


Even if you double your wager, you never have an edge over the house from martindale or similar types of silly strategies. You're on a ticking clock until you take a HUGE loss.

Also, who the hell wants to carry $10K+ to a blackjack table to win $20 bets? It's asinine. What happens if you lose 7 hands in a row and then get a pair of 8s, and then two more 8s after that, you're going to be $40K in the hole or pass up massive amounts of +ev because you're over your bankroll.

The whole idea behind the system is ridiculous. Just keep making bigger double sized bets with negative EV until you win. LOL
And keep in mind..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2018 1:52 pm : link
that the floor can refuse to take a bet over the table limit.

I've seen them do it a lot of times before, especially if one person at the table complains.

If the floor knows he can take a guy who has lost $4K from trying to eventually win it back, they most definitely can do that.
Metnut  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/11/2018 1:55 pm : link
whether you have the edge or not during a hand at the point of a double-down situation, the point remains that it is still the point during the game where you have your best chances of beating the house.

So it makes little sense to not be willing to double a wager in that case, but double the wager on the next hand when the odds are worse.
RE: RE: Do a google search  
TJ : 10/11/2018 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14117968 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 14117965 Metnut said:


Quote:


for "basic blackjack strategy card" and memorize as much as you can. It'll be more efficient to just study that than try to remember a bunch of odd tips you get on BBI.

People who get mad at moves made by other players at a blackjack table are idiots and likely have a gambling problem.



Good nature ribbing is fine, but I've seen people completely lose their shit and start cursing/yelling because some dude hits a 16 against a 5 and "takes" the crazy dude's card. Totally ruins any fun vibe.


This is the kind of thing that kills blackjack. I always wonder if the people who do this are gambling with the grocery money.
RE: Metnut  
Metnut : 10/11/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14119313 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
whether you have the edge or not during a hand at the point of a double-down situation, the point remains that it is still the point during the game where you have your best chances of beating the house.

So it makes little sense to not be willing to double a wager in that case, but double the wager on the next hand when the odds are worse.


I completely agree and was trying to make that point (looks like I didn't write it well).

RE: RE: RE: If you insist of playing a system here's a good one  
B in ALB : 10/11/2018 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14119262 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 14118319 B in ALB said:


Quote:


In comment 14118165 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


It's short term of course but have never lost with it(used it maybe a dozen times) and some dealer's have said it's pretty good.

Start with a series of numbers, say 5's. Look like this:

5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Bet the 2 outside numbers every bet. If you win cross off those numbers. If you lose add the loss(in this case 10) to the number series. Over time you will be crossing out 2 numbers when you win and only adding 1 when you lose. In a 50-50 bet eventually you will cross out all the numbers and you will win the total of the original numbers. At that point either quit or start another series.

In the short term, you will usually win always win without risk associated the double your bet system advocated above. In practice, in addition to the dealers liking it above, a couple of pit bosses liked it as well and even said kiddingly, "Don't you think it's time to go now?"

Of course, over time you will hit that 'lose a whole bunch in a row' streak, but I haven't yet because I usually quit after a few series.

Try it at home flipping a coin and see...



Did you just completely plagiarize the Labourchere System?

You're hilarious.



Don't be an idiot as you usually are. Where did I say I invented this system? Waiting...


Didn't say you invented it, you old fuck. But you definitely cut and pasted this from a website and tried to pass it off as your own.

You're an old, deluded troll cuck who gets called out constantly for Bullshit. You're pathetic.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If you insist of playing a system here's a good one  
Stan in LA : 10/11/2018 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14119393 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 14119262 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


In comment 14118319 B in ALB said:


Quote:


In comment 14118165 Stan in LA said:


Quote:


It's short term of course but have never lost with it(used it maybe a dozen times) and some dealer's have said it's pretty good.

Start with a series of numbers, say 5's. Look like this:

5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Bet the 2 outside numbers every bet. If you win cross off those numbers. If you lose add the loss(in this case 10) to the number series. Over time you will be crossing out 2 numbers when you win and only adding 1 when you lose. In a 50-50 bet eventually you will cross out all the numbers and you will win the total of the original numbers. At that point either quit or start another series.

In the short term, you will usually win always win without risk associated the double your bet system advocated above. In practice, in addition to the dealers liking it above, a couple of pit bosses liked it as well and even said kiddingly, "Don't you think it's time to go now?"

Of course, over time you will hit that 'lose a whole bunch in a row' streak, but I haven't yet because I usually quit after a few series.

Try it at home flipping a coin and see...



Did you just completely plagiarize the Labourchere System?

You're hilarious.



Don't be an idiot as you usually are. Where did I say I invented this system? Waiting...



Didn't say you invented it, you old fuck. But you definitely cut and pasted this from a website and tried to pass it off as your own.

You're an old, deluded troll cuck who gets called out constantly for Bullshit. You're pathetic.

Wrong again Moosebreath. Go find the website where I cut and pasted it from.

Waiting...
It was a pdf  
B in ALB : 10/11/2018 7:49 pm : link
from a university study on probability.

How about you get Fucking lost? No one wants you here bc you're always laughably wrong about everything. Waiting...
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