When word broke Monday that the Giants were going to trade or release tackle Ereck Flowers, the trade option wasn’t taken too seriously given the $1.69 million Flowers was still set to make this season under the terms of his rookie deal with the Giants.
That proved to be the right reaction as Flowers wound up on the waiver wire Tuesday. That contract would have moved to any team that claimed him off of waivers, so there’s equally little surprise to hear multiple reports that Flowers cleared waivers on Wednesday.
At a lower price, there is reportedly interest in his services. Adam Schefter of ESPN reports multiple teams have reached out to Flowers and that he is set to visit the Jaguars on Thursday.
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However, that article came out three weeks ago, three years after the fact.
Connect the dots. Whatever. You can twist it or turn it how you want. Flaherty was largely fired because of Flowers. However you want to word it, that's what happened.
Well, now we're leaking that a scout had a 3rd round grade on him.
So which makes more sense - that Giants management unfairly punished Flaherty for not being able to get through to Flowers? Or that maybe Flaherty and Coughlin pushed for Flowers to be drafted going against some internal scouting, and he was held responsible for it when he couldn't make that selection work?
Which once again - doesn't make Reese or Ross or any of the scouts blameless - but it sure as hell makes a lot more sense than the 'poor TC and co' theory so many of you ascribe to.
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had openly exchanged words in practice. It sucks for Flaherty, but the organization had $14M invested in Flowers. They were going to try and get whatever coaches that could get through to Flowers. If that meant getting rid of Flaherty so be it.
I didn't see any of that - can you provide a link?
If not, I'm going to call Britt's 'conspiracy theory'. Seems to be a popular card to play these days.
I don't have a link. I do remember reading about it. If you aren't inclined to believe it then add it to other Conspiracy Theories.
Ask chop where he read it.
Doubt he will be able to block it.
The evidence that refutes the silly position you guys take is pretty simple:
- That the Giants have always been an end to end shop, draft-wise. We've heard them say it, we've seen it on TV (Finding Giants).
- That Flaherty was at the workouts, and had nothing but glowing, positive things to say about him after the draft, as did Coughlin.
- That Flowers fit the profile of a Coughlin preferred OL.
- That when it came time to start dismissing people, Flaherty was one of the first to go. This was billed as 'they clashed', despite nobody being able to produce any evidence (except an insider who nobody can remember, or produce a quote associated with or linked to)
- That the Giants had usually been faithful to a fault to position coaches, and that the OL had been struggling for years up until that point.
The assertion that Coughlin and Flaherty somehow had that group of OL players thrust on them is ridiculous when you look at the situation objectively.
Doubt he will be able to block it.
If he sticks there it will be because he was able to reach into himself and find the motivation and competitiveness to succeed. It's not going to be because the Giants failed him. He failed himself and only he can dig himself out of the hole.
Clashing with? You guys have nothing there, except maybe someone read a poster who said it on BBI once.
He was fired for not being able to get him to produce. Which, you could look at two ways - either he was unfairly punished for someone else's inability to get him a talented player, or he was held accountable for not being able to coach a guy he signed on to go and draft in the top 10. Which requires less of a leap of faith to get to?
No offense again dude, but you are the one making the statement for the reason for his firing being because of that. It's kinda up to you to support it with facts before jcn has to in order to refute them.
He was a Coughlin hire.
I mean thinking about it, was Flaherty even fired, or was he just not retained during a coaching change over.
Mac ran the ship, he had the right to hire anyone he wanted.
Solari came from Greenbay, maybe he wanted to change the offense to be more like Greenbay's, and he wanted to have someone who knew that blocking scheme a little better.
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reality, and the first way to do that is to completely ignore the facts and introduce some unverifiable rumors.
Ask chop where he read it.
Read what? I have an article I just read, but it in no way says that "Flaherty was fired because he didn't get along with Flowers."
This is incredible! I did a search with multiple headings and literally ZERO came up with anything thing that suggested that Flowers not getting along with Flaherty cost the coach his job. I said that that incident may have played a part in the decision based on Flowers going to be here for 3+ more years regardless, that the GM had invested fairly heavy draft resources over the previous 3-4 years into the OL and that yet another piss poor performance by them was the main reason PF got fired.
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which in hindsight turned out to be his best, do you have other reasons for why Flaherty might have been fired since many other coaches were retained?
He was a Coughlin hire.
I mean thinking about it, was Flaherty even fired, or was he just not retained during a coaching change over.
Mac ran the ship, he had the right to hire anyone he wanted.
Solari came from Greenbay, maybe he wanted to change the offense to be more like Greenbay's, and he wanted to have someone who knew that blocking scheme a little better.
This is the correct take.
Not retained - ( New Window )
“It is a good adjustment, in every way,’’ Flowers said of Solari. “All of his techniques and different drills and everything he does. He is a great coach.’’
Giants’ Ereck Flowers sounds thrilled his old coach is gone 6/16/16 - ( New Window )
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â€
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During Flowers' rookie season, he and then-Giants OL coach Pat Flaherty had to be separated during an argument at halftime of a game in Tampa. Flaherty is now the Jaguars' OL coach.
Geoff Schwartz
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Replying to @DanGrazianoESPN
FYI ... It was on the field during the game. Never seen anything like it.[/quote]
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Clearly, at least one member of the Giants’ offensive line is happy about the change. It is no secret Ereck Flowers, as a rookie, did not always appreciate Flaherty’s style and motivational techniques.
“It is a good adjustment, in every way,’’ Flowers said of Solari. “All of his techniques and different drills and everything he does. He is a great coach.’’
Giants’ Ereck Flowers sounds thrilled his old coach is gone 6/16/16 - ( New Window )
Again that quote just shows the he liked the new coach. Schwartz implies something, there are no direct quotes that say that they hated each other, or disliked. There is no solid facts.
Yes, from the reliable mouth of Geoff Schwartz.
So if they needed to be separated - why exactly is Coughlin bringing him down to Jax? Does Flaherty need a sparring partner?
In fact if anything, I think that the Jags going and getting Flowers moreso REFUTES the notion that Flaherty lost his job because of Flowers.
That's all.
Washington Post 10/10/16 - ( New Window )
DUDE!!!!!!! None of that says that he lost his job because of Flowers! Not even close!
Nobody is disputing that they didn't get into it. Fucking Antonio Brown was barking at coaches on the sideline and those coaches didn't lose their jobs! Give me a break.
So either the Giants were really good at keeping a secret, or there are some liberties being taken. And by the usual suspects, guys like Graziano and Schwartz who never actually break any stories.
Richburg didn't call him out by name, but it was supposed he was talking about Flowers not being a team guy. Schwartz had mentioned it before he had his current role.Pugh called him out this offseason after he left the team.
it is really bizarre to try and act like most of the chatter about Flowers was positive and the idea there was friction is a myth.
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“He had a rocky relationship with former offensive line coach Pat Flaherty, who is now with the 49ers,” Raanan continued. “It created an uncomfortable and unhealthy work environment.”
Washington Post 10/10/16 - ( New Window )
Raanan is universally panned around here and now hes a reliable source... I give up!
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“He had a rocky relationship with former offensive line coach Pat Flaherty, who is now with the 49ers,” Raanan continued. “It created an uncomfortable and unhealthy work environment.”
Washington Post 10/10/16 - ( New Window )
Raanan is universally panned around here and now hes a reliable source... I give up!
I have posted like six or seven things from six or seven different sources.
Take your pick.
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“He had a rocky relationship with former offensive line coach Pat Flaherty, who is now with the 49ers,” Raanan continued. “It created an uncomfortable and unhealthy work environment.”
Washington Post 10/10/16 - ( New Window )
That's slightly better, but again, that account from Ranaan is from 9 months after Flaherty was "NOT RETAINED."
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In comment 14118204 jcn56 said:
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reality, and the first way to do that is to completely ignore the facts and introduce some unverifiable rumors.
Ask chop where he read it.
Read what? I have an article I just read, but it in no way says that "Flaherty was fired because he didn't get along with Flowers."
This is incredible! I did a search with multiple headings and literally ZERO came up with anything thing that suggested that Flowers not getting along with Flaherty cost the coach his job. I said that that incident may have played a part in the decision based on Flowers going to be here for 3+ more years regardless, that the GM had invested fairly heavy draft resources over the previous 3-4 years into the OL and that yet another piss poor performance by them was the main reason PF got fired.
My statement about reports of Flaherty and Flowers exchanging words in practice. And then you agreed. I never made the correlation that the conflict/rocky relationship was a direct result of Flaherty being fired. The only statement I made is that the Giants were committed to Flowers to the tune of $14M. If they had to cycle through OL coaches to get through to him then so be it.
Richburg didn't call him out by name, but it was supposed he was talking about Flowers not being a team guy. Schwartz had mentioned it before he had his current role.Pugh called him out this offseason after he left the team.
it is really bizarre to try and act like most of the chatter about Flowers was positive and the idea there was friction is a myth.
I think what you are missing Fatman, is that some of us are arguing that Flaherty was NOT fired because he couldn't get along with Flowers as the primary reason. Nobody is defending Flowers' ability to mesh with team and coaches
Cam blew out his ACL at the start of the season
I don't think anyone, including Britt is claiming otherwise. Flowers definitely had a hand in why he was let go
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In comment 14118213 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 14118204 jcn56 said:
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reality, and the first way to do that is to completely ignore the facts and introduce some unverifiable rumors.
Ask chop where he read it.
Read what? I have an article I just read, but it in no way says that "Flaherty was fired because he didn't get along with Flowers."
This is incredible! I did a search with multiple headings and literally ZERO came up with anything thing that suggested that Flowers not getting along with Flaherty cost the coach his job. I said that that incident may have played a part in the decision based on Flowers going to be here for 3+ more years regardless, that the GM had invested fairly heavy draft resources over the previous 3-4 years into the OL and that yet another piss poor performance by them was the main reason PF got fired.
My statement about reports of Flaherty and Flowers exchanging words in practice. And then you agreed. I never made the correlation that the conflict/rocky relationship was a direct result of Flaherty being fired. The only statement I made is that the Giants were committed to Flowers to the tune of $14M. If they had to cycle through OL coaches to get through to him then so be it.
Oh, I see. Yea I wasn't denying the words part. I think it contributed to but didn't make fr the primary impetus
The rumors at the time were that it played a part.
That is my bad.
BBI's Archived Flowers Discussion from 2016 - ( New Window )
That is my bad.
No worries man, you're good.
That is my bad.
All good brother.
I don't think anyone, including Britt is claiming otherwise. Flowers definitely had a hand in why he was let go
Uh...
Flaherty was fired by McAdoo...
Britt in VA : 6:15 pm : link : reply
because Flowers supposedly didn't like Flaherty.