It was necessary to clear the rubbish which is why I don’t get how anyone could actually believe the win now pr spin they were spouting before the season
Remember that while the "dead money" cannot be effectively used that season, it call comes back to the cap the following year.
That is why I think this coming off-season will be where the real vet cuts come.
Let's just assume for a minute that at the end of the year, the Giants cut Eli, Vernon, Jenkins, Ogletree, Snacks, Omameh, Ellison, Stewart, Michael Thomas and Barwin.
While on one hand, that frees up approximately $68-70M in cap space, on the other, it will result in about $35M in "dead money." For the Giants, this would probably be a GOOD thing. Sound confusing? It shouldn't.
While the Giants would use that cap space to bring in (hopefully) young guys with upside and talent, carrying that $35M in 2019 would mean that after the 2019 season, the Giants get that money "back" so to speak by effectively having that money be available as cap space.
At this point, I think we need to face facts that this team is going to be a multi-year rebuild. That means vets who won't be useful in 2-3 years are better off being cut, and the team benefiting from two years of cap space by doing so.
Cutting JPP just made a bad situation less bad. We're essentially paying him $15M of our cap to play for Tampa in exchange for not having to pay him beyond this year.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
Gettleman could either do something about it or live with it. He ate it and got a draft pick back, and didn't pay JPP the non guaranteed part of his salary. He doesn't have a fucking time machine, what do you want him to do? Among the number of questionable things he's done this is one of the smartest.
Cutting JPP just made a bad situation less bad. We're essentially paying him $15M of our cap to play for Tampa in exchange for not having to pay him beyond this year.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
This, and the lack of an overall strategy are the most concerning.
Are we rebuilding? Are we trying to win now? Was this year a lost cause? Trading JPP was a lost cause signal - done to recoup a bunch of money, and leave the team with only one pass rusher. Fine - but don't follow it up with stop gap measures like Solder, Stewart and Omameh. Throw up the white flag, stink for another year, draft high and build up cap for future signings. The Giants have been a rudderless ship for too long.
Cutting JPP just made a bad situation less bad. We're essentially paying him $15M of our cap to play for Tampa in exchange for not having to pay him beyond this year.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
A journey of a thousand miles behind with one step.
Let’s hope this years dead money (Jpp etc) and maybe OV next?
In other words, take the big bath now, get out of all the bad contacts asap and start the healing by drafting well and being judicious when re-signing players.
Gettleman could either do something about it or live with it. He ate it and got a draft pick back, and didn't pay JPP the non guaranteed part of his salary. He doesn't have a fucking time machine, what do you want him to do? Among the number of questionable things he's done this is one of the smartest.
Gettleman did the right thing cutting JPP. I'm not criticizing him for that move. I'm making the point that mistakes made ripple out over years. Signing JPP was a mistake. We'll probably be cutting Vernon after this year and eating money on him. Also a mistake.
I think Gettleman's made mistakes this offseason. I expect those to ripple out too.
Cutting JPP just made a bad situation less bad. We're essentially paying him $15M of our cap to play for Tampa in exchange for not having to pay him beyond this year.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
A journey of a thousand miles behind with one step.
Let’s hope this years dead money (Jpp etc) and maybe OV next?
In other words, take the big bath now, get out of all the bad contacts asap and start the healing by drafting well and being judicious when re-signing players.
Actually, a journey of a thousand miles needs a well thought out travel plan. That's exactly what the Giants seem like they're lacking. Steps are nice, but they don't get you anywhere unless you've thought about where they're taking you in advance.
He was disruptive but since the had injury he can't finish some plays , there were times he would bust into the backfield but couldn't make a play being one handed .
The move was a good one and I wouldn' doubt the same thing with Vernon next year .
Gettleman and Shurmur are doing the best they can the crappy roster we have . The JR drafts did not produce enough players to fill the roster especially the O-line .
It looks like the offense is starting to hit some big plays O-line is starting to gel P. Omameh has been below average
hopefully he starts playing better .
Eli looked much more confident .
Be nice to see Vernon have a impact on the pass rush
Martin is not making any plays so Defense should improve as well . I think we can beat Philly and that could jump start the remainder of the season .
Shows that DG knows this isn't a quick fix and the team isn't ready to compete at a high level. Keeping Eli is simple math and he didn't love any of the QBs. These errors are on Jerry and company. It all started WAYYY back when we let Linval Joseph walk and instead paid DRC who gimped around most of the time, had a few big plays but was not anywhere near the player we needed. When you ignore the core of your team, a young stud DT who can eat up the middle for a well traveled big mouth CB who never lived up to his billing you are going to screw up a team.
So when the defense started to defecate itself because it couldn't stop the run we go out and pay oodles for Snacks and OV and Jackrabbit. Yay we go 11-5 but it's a mirage because we still can't block or run the ball and our offense hinged on one player taking a slant 75 yards. Now you have a rotten, aging core that was overpaid and has under-performed. JPP being traded was erasing one of those mistakes. Drafting a QB this year high will erase another and I expect DG to keep loading up on interior OL and DL and building this team from the inside out.
RE: Dead money isn't a good thing
jcn56 : 7:09 pm : link : reply
This, and the lack of an overall strategy are the most concerning.
Are we rebuilding? Are we trying to win now? Was this year a lost cause? Trading JPP was a lost cause signal - done to recoup a bunch of money, and leave the team with only one pass rusher. Fine - but don't follow it up with stop gap measures like Solder, Stewart and Omameh. Throw up the white flag, stink for another year, draft high and build up cap for future signings. The Giants have been a rudderless ship for too long.
True. I still have hope. Things can change and probably will. There’s a base of talent here to work with. Giants have sucked before and gotten things right.
You’re going to have misses in FA or give out contracts that come back to bite you.. Giants have had a lot lately but they aren’t in any kind of financial dire straits here at all.
If Vernon plays well here out the giants probably won’t cut Vernon. If they do oh well they will be ok.
Jpp’s dead hit this year is pretty much a non factor. It’s over with. They got the pick in return it could have been worse.
You can’t live in fear and eschew paying your own talent if it’s warranted. Jpp was coming off a terrific 2016 campaign. Ok bad move in retrospect and reese’s overall final 5 years or so here doesn’t exactly foster any benefit of the doubt but as usually you blast any big contract to such and such player. You’re not always gonna be right. For every jpp we have a Justin tuck who earned every penny here despite what some idiots may have said during parts of his tenure. What about a guy like tiki barber? Guy was dominant at age 30 if the giants signed him long term at age 27 the contract would have been a bargain.
It’s not as easy as some of you insist with this not over paying crap.
Cutting JPP just made a bad situation less bad. We're essentially paying him $15M of our cap to play for Tampa in exchange for not having to pay him beyond this year.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
This, and the lack of an overall strategy are the most concerning.
Are we rebuilding? Are we trying to win now? Was this year a lost cause? Trading JPP was a lost cause signal - done to recoup a bunch of money, and leave the team with only one pass rusher. Fine - but don't follow it up with stop gap measures like Solder, Stewart and Omameh. Throw up the white flag, stink for another year, draft high and build up cap for future signings. The Giants have been a rudderless ship for too long.
How can you look at DG’s first year and come away with a “lack of overall strategy?”
He’s been pretty transparent about his strategy — run the ball, stop the run, and rush the passer. He drafted the best RB in the draft. He started the OL rebuild which was in shambles. He drafted run stuffers on defense.
Every move DG has made has been consistent with his philosophy. Every move obviously wasn’t a homerun, but it takes time to fix Reese’s trash and it looks like this roster is headed in the right direction.
DG is faced with erasing some of Reese's decisions from the books, and it will take time and there will be blood probably for another offseason.
Recognizing this season was about putting the best team out there that they could while also beginning to rework the roster ... let's see where they are next April after UFA, the draft prospects, etc.
Doesn’t feel good, but looking at a dead cap number in one year is really un-telling.
Year after year, if a team is consistently near tops in dead cap, it’s probably a strong sign of slovenly spending and contract structure. A high number in one particular year may just be a side-effect of management taking some much needed medicine.
I think Gettleman will be successful. I don't like all his moves but he's had a heck of a draft and I trust him to complete the overhaul of the O-Line next off-season.
Its too early to call Vernon. Poor value so far but out of his hands to a degree. There's still a chance he shines in Bettcher's scheme if he can stay healthy.
Let's see how this trend over the next two years
It might end up being net positive for the Giants if he doesn't keep it up, but right now, it doesn't represent a great move on our part.
His contract went to OBJ.
His contract went to OBJ.
+1
Meaningless is correct
Plus I don’t see Winston as a long term answer
That is why I think this coming off-season will be where the real vet cuts come.
Let's just assume for a minute that at the end of the year, the Giants cut Eli, Vernon, Jenkins, Ogletree, Snacks, Omameh, Ellison, Stewart, Michael Thomas and Barwin.
While on one hand, that frees up approximately $68-70M in cap space, on the other, it will result in about $35M in "dead money." For the Giants, this would probably be a GOOD thing. Sound confusing? It shouldn't.
While the Giants would use that cap space to bring in (hopefully) young guys with upside and talent, carrying that $35M in 2019 would mean that after the 2019 season, the Giants get that money "back" so to speak by effectively having that money be available as cap space.
At this point, I think we need to face facts that this team is going to be a multi-year rebuild. That means vets who won't be useful in 2-3 years are better off being cut, and the team benefiting from two years of cap space by doing so.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
This, and the lack of an overall strategy are the most concerning.
Are we rebuilding? Are we trying to win now? Was this year a lost cause? Trading JPP was a lost cause signal - done to recoup a bunch of money, and leave the team with only one pass rusher. Fine - but don't follow it up with stop gap measures like Solder, Stewart and Omameh. Throw up the white flag, stink for another year, draft high and build up cap for future signings. The Giants have been a rudderless ship for too long.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
A journey of a thousand miles behind with one step.
Let’s hope this years dead money (Jpp etc) and maybe OV next?
In other words, take the big bath now, get out of all the bad contacts asap and start the healing by drafting well and being judicious when re-signing players.
Gettleman did the right thing cutting JPP. I'm not criticizing him for that move. I'm making the point that mistakes made ripple out over years. Signing JPP was a mistake. We'll probably be cutting Vernon after this year and eating money on him. Also a mistake.
I think Gettleman's made mistakes this offseason. I expect those to ripple out too.
We'll be fine in the end.
Sorry. Using logic is not appreciated. Lol
Quote:
Cutting JPP just made a bad situation less bad. We're essentially paying him $15M of our cap to play for Tampa in exchange for not having to pay him beyond this year.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
A journey of a thousand miles behind with one step.
Let’s hope this years dead money (Jpp etc) and maybe OV next?
In other words, take the big bath now, get out of all the bad contacts asap and start the healing by drafting well and being judicious when re-signing players.
Actually, a journey of a thousand miles needs a well thought out travel plan. That's exactly what the Giants seem like they're lacking. Steps are nice, but they don't get you anywhere unless you've thought about where they're taking you in advance.
Same bullshit for years...
Quote:
It does. He was not playing good ball and was getting paid an insane amount. And I don't see him blending him as 3-4 player that much.
His contract went to OBJ.
+1
+2.
The move was a good one and I wouldn' doubt the same thing with Vernon next year .
Gettleman and Shurmur are doing the best they can the crappy roster we have . The JR drafts did not produce enough players to fill the roster especially the O-line .
It looks like the offense is starting to hit some big plays O-line is starting to gel P. Omameh has been below average
hopefully he starts playing better .
Eli looked much more confident .
Be nice to see Vernon have a impact on the pass rush
Martin is not making any plays so Defense should improve as well . I think we can beat Philly and that could jump start the remainder of the season .
So when the defense started to defecate itself because it couldn't stop the run we go out and pay oodles for Snacks and OV and Jackrabbit. Yay we go 11-5 but it's a mirage because we still can't block or run the ball and our offense hinged on one player taking a slant 75 yards. Now you have a rotten, aging core that was overpaid and has under-performed. JPP being traded was erasing one of those mistakes. Drafting a QB this year high will erase another and I expect DG to keep loading up on interior OL and DL and building this team from the inside out.
jcn56 : 7:09 pm : link : reply
This, and the lack of an overall strategy are the most concerning.
Are we rebuilding? Are we trying to win now? Was this year a lost cause? Trading JPP was a lost cause signal - done to recoup a bunch of money, and leave the team with only one pass rusher. Fine - but don't follow it up with stop gap measures like Solder, Stewart and Omameh. Throw up the white flag, stink for another year, draft high and build up cap for future signings. The Giants have been a rudderless ship for too long.
Quote:
Sleep well tonight.
Same bullshit for years...
True. I still have hope. Things can change and probably will. There’s a base of talent here to work with. Giants have sucked before and gotten things right.
You’re going to have misses in FA or give out contracts that come back to bite you.. Giants have had a lot lately but they aren’t in any kind of financial dire straits here at all.
If Vernon plays well here out the giants probably won’t cut Vernon. If they do oh well they will be ok.
You can’t live in fear and eschew paying your own talent if it’s warranted. Jpp was coming off a terrific 2016 campaign. Ok bad move in retrospect and reese’s overall final 5 years or so here doesn’t exactly foster any benefit of the doubt but as usually you blast any big contract to such and such player. You’re not always gonna be right. For every jpp we have a Justin tuck who earned every penny here despite what some idiots may have said during parts of his tenure. What about a guy like tiki barber? Guy was dominant at age 30 if the giants signed him long term at age 27 the contract would have been a bargain.
It’s not as easy as some of you insist with this not over paying crap.
Quote:
Cutting JPP just made a bad situation less bad. We're essentially paying him $15M of our cap to play for Tampa in exchange for not having to pay him beyond this year.
Having this much dead money should bring up the more global view of why we are in this predicament to begin with. The reason is we made a mistake paying him in the first place.
We'll be in the same situation with Vernon next year...paying him to play somewhere else.
Painting it like a positive is a rationalization. The rationalizations for this organization the last few years are numerous enough to fill the stadium to the brim.
This, and the lack of an overall strategy are the most concerning.
Are we rebuilding? Are we trying to win now? Was this year a lost cause? Trading JPP was a lost cause signal - done to recoup a bunch of money, and leave the team with only one pass rusher. Fine - but don't follow it up with stop gap measures like Solder, Stewart and Omameh. Throw up the white flag, stink for another year, draft high and build up cap for future signings. The Giants have been a rudderless ship for too long.
How can you look at DG’s first year and come away with a “lack of overall strategy?”
He’s been pretty transparent about his strategy — run the ball, stop the run, and rush the passer. He drafted the best RB in the draft. He started the OL rebuild which was in shambles. He drafted run stuffers on defense.
Every move DG has made has been consistent with his philosophy. Every move obviously wasn’t a homerun, but it takes time to fix Reese’s trash and it looks like this roster is headed in the right direction.
He’s been pretty transparent about his strategy — run the ball, stop the run, and rush the passer. .
Those aren't front office strategies as much as they are in-game goals or priorities at best, and platitudes at worst.
Prior to the season when I suggested a pick on a young quarterback might be a good idea as the team is rebuilding.
I was told as a "matter of fact" that teams do not rebuild in the NFL.
However, I do agree with your premise, good post.
Recognizing this season was about putting the best team out there that they could while also beginning to rework the roster ... let's see where they are next April after UFA, the draft prospects, etc.
Direct your arguments at those who oppose you, make them stronger, and stand your ground.
Year after year, if a team is consistently near tops in dead cap, it’s probably a strong sign of slovenly spending and contract structure. A high number in one particular year may just be a side-effect of management taking some much needed medicine.
There are always mistakes, but mistakes presents us with the chance to learn and grow.
Let's see how Dave Gettelman handles his mistakes, while at the same time putting an effort into finding positive things he has done or is doing.
Its too early to call Vernon. Poor value so far but out of his hands to a degree. There's still a chance he shines in Bettcher's scheme if he can stay healthy.
We'll see on OV