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Early draft talk

DavidinBMNY : 10/10/2018 9:07 pm
I'm extremely hopeful the season turns around starting Thursday. Let's beat the Eagles - please.


That said while it is to early to seriously talk draft there is one point I wanted to mention. If the Giants come away, and only if they come away with the #1 pick I would run to the podium for Nick Bosa.

Bosa is arguably better then his brother - even though Joey is bigger and has more pure power. Dominant pass rushers change franchises and our pass rush has not been dominant for a long time. Strahan, Tuck and Osi are long gone. If you are like me you still glowingly talk about LT.

The '20 Qb class is set to be VERY good with Tua in that group as well as a few other qbs.

This team would be a lot better with a pass rush and a continued investment in OL. Any fan of those 80's Giants simply loves pass rush. It is so much more fun to watch the game when you have one. Vernon's absence and the impact on the pass rush has been pronounced and Bosa would hopefully immediately be contending for the best pass rusher in the division.

Let's not suck. But if we do... Suck for Bosa.






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David, so  
Bill in TN : 10/10/2018 9:13 pm : link
not to be a dick, but where would you play Bosa? OLB?
He's not big enough to be a DE.
David you’re not getting it.  
Big Blue '56 : 10/10/2018 9:13 pm : link
We’re winning the division with 5, maybe 6 wins. That means we’re picking in the 20s
Good post  
mrvax : 10/10/2018 9:14 pm : link
David.
Bosa is being stuffed down everyone's throat...  
bw in dc : 10/10/2018 9:30 pm : link
who doesn't pay attention.

Check out Montez Sweat of Miss State (transferred a few years ago from Mich State). Guy is the real deal as a push rushing DE. And absolute terror. He is the guy to watch for any team's pass rushing needs.
There may actually be revolt  
Br00klyn : 10/10/2018 9:53 pm : link
If a QB isn’t taken. Of course that’s only if they like a qb that high which I think Herbert and Grier have a real shot and the talent to be taken at the top of the draft
They would almost have to take a QB at this point  
blueblood : 10/10/2018 10:12 pm : link
they cannot wait another year...
Sorry but don’t see it that way  
Giant John : 10/10/2018 10:20 pm : link
Qb, then oline, then defense. Just the way it has to be.
Couple of good OT's  
Breeze_94 : 10/10/2018 10:46 pm : link
Jonah Williams and Greg Little

I like Herbert if we are picking top 5, not sold on any of the other QB's. I like Grier, but he is a late first/early day 2 guy to me.

Ed Oliver is a great talent- but the Giants have Hill/Tomlinson/Snacks/McIntosh already on the interior.

Devin White from LSU is a great LB to keep an eye on, and as the previous poster mentioend, Montez Sweat. Also, David Edwards, a true RT from Wisconsin, LB Anfernee Jennings from Bama, and Rashaan Gary from Michigan stand out to me.

Tbh- I think the Giants will be picking somewhere from 6-12.
RE: David you’re not getting it.  
djm : 10/10/2018 10:47 pm : link
In comment 14118368 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
We’re winning the division with 5, maybe 6 wins. That means we’re picking in the 20s


Lol that works just fine for me! Wouldn’t we still pick where the 5-6 win teams pick? Around 10 or so? I don’t think the giants would be penalized for making the playoffs they would still pick ahead of the team with more wins. Even better! Pick high AND make the playoffs.
RE: Couple of good OT's  
Boy Cord : 10/10/2018 11:06 pm : link
In comment 14118441 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Jonah Williams and Greg Little

I like Herbert if we are picking top 5, not sold on any of the other QB's. I like Grier, but he is a late first/early day 2 guy to me.

Ed Oliver is a great talent- but the Giants have Hill/Tomlinson/Snacks/McIntosh already on the interior.

Devin White from LSU is a great LB to keep an eye on, and as the previous poster mentioend, Montez Sweat. Also, David Edwards, a true RT from Wisconsin, LB Anfernee Jennings from Bama, and Rashaan Gary from Michigan stand out to me.

Tbh- I think the Giants will be picking somewhere from 6-12.


I heard Grier had three end zone picks this past weekend. And a red zone fumble. Is that true?
You can't keep kicking the can  
allstarjim : 10/10/2018 11:10 pm : link
Down the road with QB. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, and they are the most important position. Shurmur and Gettleman can't wait another 3 years after this one for a QB from 2020 to start winning, and that's if they are lucky.
RE: RE: David you’re not getting it.  
Boy Cord : 10/10/2018 11:15 pm : link
In comment 14118443 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14118368 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


We’re winning the division with 5, maybe 6 wins. That means we’re picking in the 20s



Lol that works just fine for me! Wouldn’t we still pick where the 5-6 win teams pick? Around 10 or so? I don’t think the giants would be penalized for making the playoffs they would still pick ahead of the team with more wins. Even better! Pick high AND make the playoffs.


No. Playoff teams pick 21-32.
RE: RE: Couple of good OT's  
bw in dc : 10/11/2018 12:29 am : link
In comment 14118452 Boy Cord said:
Quote:


I heard Grier had three end zone picks this past weekend. And a red zone fumble. Is that true?


He did. Bad some bad decisions. But still threw 4 TDs. Just one of those days - more the exception than the rule for him, IMV...
RE: Couple of good OT's  
bw in dc : 10/11/2018 12:32 am : link
In comment 14118441 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Jonah Williams and Greg Little

I like Herbert if we are picking top 5, not sold on any of the other QB's. I like Grier, but he is a late first/early day 2 guy to me.

Ed Oliver is a great talent- but the Giants have Hill/Tomlinson/Snacks/McIntosh already on the interior.

Devin White from LSU is a great LB to keep an eye on, and as the previous poster mentioend, Montez Sweat. Also, David Edwards, a true RT from Wisconsin, LB Anfernee Jennings from Bama, and Rashaan Gary from Michigan stand out to me.


Have you seen Josh Allen, the OLB/DE, from Kentucky? Another upcoming stud wreaking havoc in a very deep SEC 2020 class.
RE: You can't keep kicking the can  
Giantsfan79 : 10/11/2018 1:07 am : link
In comment 14118455 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Down the road with QB. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, and they are the most important position. Shurmur and Gettleman can't wait another 3 years after this one for a QB from 2020 to start winning, and that's if they are lucky.


The same logic holds true for a franchise left tackle and Jonah Williams is the best tackle to come out in years. He's way closer to Smith of Dallas or Joe Thomas or others in that caliber.
I missed the days when we had a dominant DL -  
short lease : 10/11/2018 1:09 am : link
Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Kiwanuka, (later moved to LBer), Canty, Barry Cofield played well for a while. I am sure I must be missing a couple of names.

We sure could use some high round talent up front on D but, if we draft that high in 2019 (and the talent is there) - it might be time to look for the "Heir apparent" - which I think the Giants will do.
Yea!  
Tuckrule : 10/11/2018 6:48 am : link
Let’s pass on a qb for a DE who will then have to play olb in a 3-4. Brilliant! Yea I’ll take Herbert and let him develop with our offensive skill guys so, you know, we can become a competitive team again.
RE: RE: You can't keep kicking the can  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/11/2018 7:34 am : link
In comment 14118492 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
In comment 14118455 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Down the road with QB. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, and they are the most important position. Shurmur and Gettleman can't wait another 3 years after this one for a QB from 2020 to start winning, and that's if they are lucky.



The same logic holds true for a franchise left tackle and Jonah Williams is the best tackle to come out in years. He's way closer to Smith of Dallas or Joe Thomas or others in that caliber.


Just ask Miami how they feel about picking Jake Long over Matt Ryan.
In the end, I don't think the Giants will be anywhere near that #1  
barens : 10/11/2018 7:44 am : link
pick, and I think when all is said and done, Rashan Gary will be the first player off the board. His measurables are going to be similar to Clowneys, but he's got a better work ethic.
I like  
TommyWiseau : 10/11/2018 8:06 am : link
Herbert a lot. He has the size and the arm to make all of the throws. We need a QB. If we draft one this year I would love to have Eli stay for his final season to help the kid out
Question for the Will Grier fans  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/11/2018 8:21 am : link
Last season I mentioned him as a possible first round selection in 2019.

The feedback I received is that he has a cannon arm, but has trouble throwing the intermediate routes.

I know he can throw the long balls on a dime. I have witnessed that myself.

What has changed from last season to this season?

RE: RE: You can't keep kicking the can  
allstarjim : 10/11/2018 8:22 am : link
In comment 14118492 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
In comment 14118455 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Down the road with QB. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, and they are the most important position. Shurmur and Gettleman can't wait another 3 years after this one for a QB from 2020 to start winning, and that's if they are lucky.



The same logic holds true for a franchise left tackle and Jonah Williams is the best tackle to come out in years. He's way closer to Smith of Dallas or Joe Thomas or others in that caliber.


No, the same logic doesn't hold true for a franchise LT vs franchise QB. Not sure if you heard, but Nate Solder is our LT and will continue to be for a long time, but even if we did not have Solder, this regime would need to draft Eli's replacement. Eli is under contract for 2019 and that's it. A good plan would be to draft a franchise QB when ostensibly, you are going to have a top 5 pick again, and let that pick have an understudy year as Eli has his swan song. A bad plan is to wait until 2020 and hope you are back in position to draft one of those quarterbacks and then have a rookie start right away or kick the can another year with Lauletta or Tanney at QB.

I'm pretty sure that Shurmur and Gettleman want to win before 2021 or 2022. In order to do that, they are going to have to get their guy in this next draft and they have to not miss. Then that guy has to start winning games in 2020. Ownership is not going to let this team become the Browns.

Obviously, you can't force the pick. But there will probably be very little competition for the top QB in this class, and I expect the Giants will be well-positioned to get him. If you don't take him in 2019 in favor of an OT or pass rusher, when you have a guy at QB entering his age 38 season and last under contract, then you have completely mismanaged the future of this franchise. I don't think this regime would even entertain that idea if they had the option.
RE: In the end, I don't think the Giants will be anywhere near that #1  
allstarjim : 10/11/2018 8:32 am : link
In comment 14118535 barens said:
Quote:
pick, and I think when all is said and done, Rashan Gary will be the first player off the board. His measurables are going to be similar to Clowneys, but he's got a better work ethic.


Yes they will. The 49ers, Cardinals, and Bills might have a worse record by the end of the season, but I highly doubt that the Giants will have any worse than the 4th pick in the draft. Realistically this is a 3-5 win team. We have exciting players but until we can score points consistently we are going to lose a lot more games than win them.
RE: Question for the Will Grier fans  
allstarjim : 10/11/2018 8:36 am : link
In comment 14118565 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Last season I mentioned him as a possible first round selection in 2019.

The feedback I received is that he has a cannon arm, but has trouble throwing the intermediate routes.

I know he can throw the long balls on a dime. I have witnessed that myself.

What has changed from last season to this season?


Don't forget Will Grier left UF after being suspended for a year for a banned substance, and then said it was "an over the counter substance." Now, think about everything you know about John Mara. Do you think that Mara is going to sign off on a top 5 QB in the draft with that history?

No. That guy has to be a clean prospect and model citizen, especially at the QB position, who is going to be the face of the franchise. Although there is a lot about Grier to like, I don't see how he would be a consideration for the Giants at all, they are definitely going to downgrade him.
Bosa  
JonC : 10/11/2018 8:41 am : link
is a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB, much like his brother. Not an issue.

I don't see a 3-4 team spending a high pick on Oliver, unless they project him as Snacks' successor at NT. Even then, that's a potentially awfully high pick at a non-premium position.
Grier has been listed as high as 10  
dep026 : 10/11/2018 8:45 am : link
and as low as a 2nd-3rd rounder. There is obviously things that we arent seeing with him. Hebert has only been the consensus top 5 pick as a QB - and he still has huge question marks.
We're going to be looking at the QBs and edge rushers early  
JonC : 10/11/2018 8:47 am : link
and I suspect one will "fit" and be "BPA" no matter what.
RE: RE: Question for the Will Grier fans  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/11/2018 8:49 am : link
In comment 14118581 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14118565 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


Last season I mentioned him as a possible first round selection in 2019.

The feedback I received is that he has a cannon arm, but has trouble throwing the intermediate routes.

I know he can throw the long balls on a dime. I have witnessed that myself.

What has changed from last season to this season?




Don't forget Will Grier left UF after being suspended for a year for a banned substance, and then said it was "an over the counter substance." Now, think about everything you know about John Mara. Do you think that Mara is going to sign off on a top 5 QB in the draft with that history?

No. That guy has to be a clean prospect and model citizen, especially at the QB position, who is going to be the face of the franchise. Although there is a lot about Grier to like, I don't see how he would be a consideration for the Giants at all, they are definitely going to downgrade him.


For sure. I knew that. I'm just talking about his throws from prospect angle.

I particularly do not like the offenses that either Grier or Herbert have come out of. Grier Air Raid spread, and Herbert, Willie Taggert lethal simplicity.
Hasn't  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2018 9:04 am : link
Bosa been hurt all season for OSU? What exactly is his injury?
RE: We're going to be looking at the QBs and edge rushers early  
dep026 : 10/11/2018 9:05 am : link
In comment 14118594 JonC said:
Quote:
and I suspect one will "fit" and be "BPA" no matter what.


Stop it!

Jonah Williams at RT and I will hear nothing else of the sort!
If we go RT high  
JonC : 10/11/2018 9:08 am : link
that's a shitty sign for the talent level of the draft pool. Solder's locked in a for a bit at LT.
You could say Jonah at RT until Solder retires  
JonC : 10/11/2018 9:09 am : link
but that's not a route I think they'll pursue.
RE: We're going to be looking at the QBs and edge rushers early  
Sean : 10/11/2018 9:09 am : link
In comment 14118594 JonC said:
Quote:
and I suspect one will "fit" and be "BPA" no matter what.


Have you heard anything about NYG’s scouting presence for the early QB prospects?
RE: If we go RT high  
dep026 : 10/11/2018 9:09 am : link
In comment 14118626 JonC said:
Quote:
that's a shitty sign for the talent level of the draft pool. Solder's locked in a for a bit at LT.


I know people dont want to hear this.... but I see the Giants winning some games. If the team progresses like I think you and I both know... I can see us getting to 6 wins. Taking us out of the top 5.
If we lost tonight  
Ash_3 : 10/11/2018 9:12 am : link
(and there is a serious chance that we do), we'd have to go .500 the rest of the way. There's a shot that happens since we're playing some horrendous teams along the way, but I have a hard time seeing us rally at 1-5 rather than start to collapse.
RE: Question for the Will Grier fans  
GoDeep13 : 10/11/2018 9:12 am : link
In comment 14118565 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Last season I mentioned him as a possible first round selection in 2019.

The feedback I received is that he has a cannon arm, but has trouble throwing the intermediate routes.

I know he can throw the long balls on a dime. I have witnessed that myself.

What has changed from last season to this season?


I think his intermediate game has improved. My biggest problem with him right now is he has moments when he just holds the ball too long. West Virginia’s line has done a good job protecting him for the most part allowing him some pretty clean pockets and at times you see him take that for granted and hold the ball. What makes it worse is that he’ll at times STILL take the sack when he has plenty of time to just throw it away before the rush gets there.
We should go OL in the 2nd  
GoDeep13 : 10/11/2018 9:15 am : link
Again this draft. Guys like David Edwards and Dalton Risner who could both play right away with good results should be available in the 2nd.
RE: RE: If we go RT high  
JonC : 10/11/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 14118631 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14118626 JonC said:


Quote:


that's a shitty sign for the talent level of the draft pool. Solder's locked in a for a bit at LT.



I know people dont want to hear this.... but I see the Giants winning some games. If the team progresses like I think you and I both know... I can see us getting to 6 wins. Taking us out of the top 5.


We'll likely be 1-5 tonight, I don't see this team winning half their games down the stretch, and don't really want them to. 6 wins this season doesn't help them get more talented.
RE: RE: We're going to be looking at the QBs and edge rushers early  
JonC : 10/11/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 14118630 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 14118594 JonC said:


Quote:


and I suspect one will "fit" and be "BPA" no matter what.



Have you heard anything about NYG’s scouting presence for the early QB prospects?


No, way too early. Didn't hear a peep about QBs last year until March.
RE: RE: RE: If we go RT high  
dep026 : 10/11/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 14118644 JonC said:
Quote:

We'll likely be 1-5 tonight, I don't see this team winning half their games down the stretch, and don't really want them to. 6 wins this season doesn't help them get more talented.


Eagles are beatable. A mess weather wise tonight makes it anyones game. Atlanta is not very good. Washington isnt anything special. It wouldnt shock me if we got 2 wins in the next 3.

Plus with Tennseee, Indy, TB, Dallas at home, SF - there are wins on the schedule IMO.
Tua  
Thegratefulhead : 10/11/2018 9:29 am : link
How come no one is suggesting Tua cannot enter the draft? If agents start hearing he would be the number 1 pick, it would make financial sense for him to leave.
RE: Tua  
dep026 : 10/11/2018 9:31 am : link
In comment 14118669 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
How come no one is suggesting Tua cannot enter the draft? If agents start hearing he would be the number 1 pick, it would make financial sense for him to leave.


True Sophomore. Have to be 3 years removed from HS.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If we go RT high  
allstarjim : 10/11/2018 9:34 am : link
In comment 14118655 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14118644 JonC said:


Quote:



We'll likely be 1-5 tonight, I don't see this team winning half their games down the stretch, and don't really want them to. 6 wins this season doesn't help them get more talented.



Eagles are beatable. A mess weather wise tonight makes it anyones game. Atlanta is not very good. Washington isnt anything special. It wouldnt shock me if we got 2 wins in the next 3.

Plus with Tennseee, Indy, TB, Dallas at home, SF - there are wins on the schedule IMO.


Tennessee, Indy, Tampa, Dallas...are looking at the Giants on their schedule as a W. Also, all of those teams are better teams than the Giants.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If we go RT high  
dep026 : 10/11/2018 9:36 am : link
In comment 14118680 allstarjim said:
Quote:


Tennessee, Indy, Tampa, Dallas...are looking at the Giants on their schedule as a W. Also, all of those teams are better teams than the Giants.


Well sure they can lose them as well. But those teams being "better" than the Giants is speculative. None of them are that good and have major problems as well. Shit, TB looked like a high school team against Chicago. Indy has looked awful in areas. And Tennessee has ZERO offense.
I agree with JonC  
Jay on the Island : 10/11/2018 9:39 am : link
The Giants won't use a high 1st round pick on a RT. They will sign one in free agency and either take a QB or pass rusher in round 1. I am high on Justin Herbert and I hope that he is the pick.
RE: We should go OL in the 2nd  
Jay on the Island : 10/11/2018 9:40 am : link
In comment 14118641 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
Again this draft. Guys like David Edwards and Dalton Risner who could both play right away with good results should be available in the 2nd.

There is no way Edwards falls to round 2. He will go top 20 at worst possibly top 10.
My ideal offseason  
Jay on the Island : 10/11/2018 9:42 am : link
would be Justin Herbert in round 1, sign Ja'Wuan James in free agency, and use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a G/C.
The Giants should target the best center in the draft  
Milton : 10/11/2018 9:55 am : link
Whether that requires a 1st round pick or a 2nd round pick will depend on where he lands on their draft board.

As for QB, that depends on how Eli and the offense finish the year. And what kind of ceiling they put on Lauletta's upside (obviously they like him, but do they love him?).
RE: RE: RE: You can't keep kicking the can  
Giantsfan79 : 10/11/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 14118530 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14118492 Giantsfan79 said:


Quote:


In comment 14118455 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Down the road with QB. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, and they are the most important position. Shurmur and Gettleman can't wait another 3 years after this one for a QB from 2020 to start winning, and that's if they are lucky.



The same logic holds true for a franchise left tackle and Jonah Williams is the best tackle to come out in years. He's way closer to Smith of Dallas or Joe Thomas or others in that caliber.



Just ask Miami how they feel about picking Jake Long over Matt Ryan.


Seeing that Matty ice has delivered nothing to Atlanta I'd say it's a wash. But the flipside to your example, how many times have we seen teams draft the franchise QB throw him behind a substandard line and watch him get killed? We drafted a great running back who oftentimes can't take more than two steps before a defender is on him.

We can agree to disagree but I say fix the oline before you get the QB.
RE: RE: RE: You can't keep kicking the can  
Giantsfan79 : 10/11/2018 10:08 am : link
In comment 14118567 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14118492 Giantsfan79 said:


Quote:


In comment 14118455 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Not sure if you heard, but Nate Solder is our LT and will continue to be for a long time, but even if we did not have Solder, this regime would need to draft Eli's replacement.


Nate Solder is signed for two more years after this and while he's been an upgrade over what he had :( I'd argue he's in his decline years. Go look at highlights of Williams, almost every play he's pushing the defender backwards not the other way around. And his hip and hand placement is elite.

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