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| In recent years, some individuals inside the organization have believed that Manning is holding the team back. Most have since been fired. |
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| Some thought Manning was the problem as far back as four or five years ago, according to sources with knowledge of the Giants’ thinking. |
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In comment 14118908 Rflairr said:
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The Panthers were wobbly ducks with no velocity behind them
When you hadnt thought the show reached a new low.... in comes rflairr.
Why does that gif remind me of Bill Parcell. Holy fuck
Eli can win if his defense plays lights out as they did during the two runs. So could Trent Dilfer Brad Johnson or Jim McMahon
You drunk, homie?
To me, the crux of the issue is did DG and Shurmur miscalculate how effective Eli would be with how the team was constructed?
If the team ends 3-13 or 5-11, I would say they grossly erred on where the team was. In this scenario it was an absolute mistake to bring Eli back, should have drafted a QB and start the rebuild.
If they recover and get to 8-8, ELi's coming back, keep building the OL and OLB and get after it in 19. I will say in that scenario they made the right call.
In comment 14118772 Ira said:
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Manning is 32nd in the NFL with an average of 10.31 yards per completion. He's tied for 28th with a touchdown on 3.2 percent of his pass attempts. His 7.02 air yards per attempt put him 29th among quarterbacks.
“All you have to do is watch him,” one NFL executive said. “Don’t think about what his name is. Just watch him. Don’t make excuses. It’s blatant and obvious.”
I don't know where JR gets his stats. I get them from ESPN. Eli is 19th in the league in 7.39 yards per attempt behind an o-line that hasn't given him much time. And that's one of his worst stats. With regard to the unnamed NFL exec, I do watch him and see a qb that does well when he's not constantly under attack by unblocked pass rushers. Link - ( New Window )
In comment 14118772 Ira said:
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In comment 14118678 jeff57 said:
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Manning is 32nd in the NFL with an average of 10.31 yards per completion. He's tied for 28th with a touchdown on 3.2 percent of his pass attempts. His 7.02 air yards per attempt put him 29th among quarterbacks.
“All you have to do is watch him,” one NFL executive said. “Don’t think about what his name is. Just watch him. Don’t make excuses. It’s blatant and obvious.”
I don't know where JR gets his stats. I get them from ESPN. Eli is 19th in the league in 7.39 yards per attempt behind an o-line that hasn't given him much time. And that's one of his worst stats. With regard to the unnamed NFL exec, I do watch him and see a qb that does well when he's not constantly under attack by unblocked pass rushers. Link - ( New Window )
And what makes you believe that's not a result the offense or what he's being asked to do?
Both Shurmur, Eli, and formerly Case Keenum are quoted as saying the philosophy is not to take risks down the field, and rather check down and try for explosive plays with YAC.
In comment 14118772 Ira said:
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In comment 14118678 jeff57 said:
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Manning is 32nd in the NFL with an average of 10.31 yards per completion. He's tied for 28th with a touchdown on 3.2 percent of his pass attempts. His 7.02 air yards per attempt put him 29th among quarterbacks.
“All you have to do is watch him,” one NFL executive said. “Don’t think about what his name is. Just watch him. Don’t make excuses. It’s blatant and obvious.”
I don't know where JR gets his stats. I get them from ESPN. Eli is 19th in the league in 7.39 yards per attempt behind an o-line that hasn't given him much time. And that's one of his worst stats. With regard to the unnamed NFL exec, I do watch him and see a qb that does well when he's not constantly under attack by unblocked pass rushers. Link - ( New Window )
So who really cares how long the ball is in the air? Doesn't it matter, mostly, how much the actual gain is?
Meanwhile, if a five yard pass goes for a TD, you're loving that.
Now we are making up stats - or reaching for obscure stats - to prove a point.
Weak, IMO.
Seriously do appreciate everyone reading and following, regardless of some of the comments in this thread. Enjoy the game tonight.
In comment 14119044 Britt in VA said:
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Nice try. AIR yards per attempt. That's the average distance he throws the ball in the air, not the amount of yards that could be gained in part by a player breaking 5 tackles and running for a 50-yard gain. They are different stats.
In comment 14118772 Ira said:
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In comment 14118678 jeff57 said:
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Manning is 32nd in the NFL with an average of 10.31 yards per completion. He's tied for 28th with a touchdown on 3.2 percent of his pass attempts. His 7.02 air yards per attempt put him 29th among quarterbacks.
“All you have to do is watch him,” one NFL executive said. “Don’t think about what his name is. Just watch him. Don’t make excuses. It’s blatant and obvious.”
I don't know where JR gets his stats. I get them from ESPN. Eli is 19th in the league in 7.39 yards per attempt behind an o-line that hasn't given him much time. And that's one of his worst stats. With regard to the unnamed NFL exec, I do watch him and see a qb that does well when he's not constantly under attack by unblocked pass rushers. Link - ( New Window )
And what makes you believe that's not a result the offense or what he's being asked to do?
Both Shurmur, Eli, and formerly Case Keenum are quoted as saying the philosophy is not to take risks down the field, and rather check down and try for explosive plays with YAC.
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Nice try. AIR yards per attempt. That's the average distance he throws the ball in the air, not the amount of yards that could be gained in part by a player breaking 5 tackles and running for a 50-yard gain. They are different stats.
In comment 14118772 Ira said:
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In comment 14118678 jeff57 said:
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Manning is 32nd in the NFL with an average of 10.31 yards per completion. He's tied for 28th with a touchdown on 3.2 percent of his pass attempts. His 7.02 air yards per attempt put him 29th among quarterbacks.
“All you have to do is watch him,” one NFL executive said. “Don’t think about what his name is. Just watch him. Don’t make excuses. It’s blatant and obvious.”
I don't know where JR gets his stats. I get them from ESPN. Eli is 19th in the league in 7.39 yards per attempt behind an o-line that hasn't given him much time. And that's one of his worst stats. With regard to the unnamed NFL exec, I do watch him and see a qb that does well when he's not constantly under attack by unblocked pass rushers. Link - ( New Window )
And what makes you believe that's not a result the offense or what he's being asked to do?
Both Shurmur, Eli, and formerly Case Keenum are quoted as saying the philosophy is not to take risks down the field, and rather check down and try for explosive plays with YAC.
Exactly Brit.
There's one stat that's down, and that's passing TDs. In a passing league, you want to be scoring points.
Seriously do appreciate everyone reading and following, regardless of some of the comments in this thread. Enjoy the game tonight.
In comment 14119044 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 14119037 JordanRaanan said:
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Nice try. AIR yards per attempt. That's the average distance he throws the ball in the air, not the amount of yards that could be gained in part by a player breaking 5 tackles and running for a 50-yard gain. They are different stats.
In comment 14118772 Ira said:
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In comment 14118678 jeff57 said:
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Manning is 32nd in the NFL with an average of 10.31 yards per completion. He's tied for 28th with a touchdown on 3.2 percent of his pass attempts. His 7.02 air yards per attempt put him 29th among quarterbacks.
“All you have to do is watch him,” one NFL executive said. “Don’t think about what his name is. Just watch him. Don’t make excuses. It’s blatant and obvious.”
I don't know where JR gets his stats. I get them from ESPN. Eli is 19th in the league in 7.39 yards per attempt behind an o-line that hasn't given him much time. And that's one of his worst stats. With regard to the unnamed NFL exec, I do watch him and see a qb that does well when he's not constantly under attack by unblocked pass rushers. Link - ( New Window )
And what makes you believe that's not a result the offense or what he's being asked to do?
Both Shurmur, Eli, and formerly Case Keenum are quoted as saying the philosophy is not to take risks down the field, and rather check down and try for explosive plays with YAC.
Decline since 2014? Eli threw for 35 TD's and 4500 yards in 2015.
Maybe it's because he is the best option? When Warner was here we had the 1st overall pick behind him. Would you rather see Tanney or Kyle Laueltta who isn't ready?
Again.... our run game is one of the worst since 201... how about some in depth information about that?
Oh wait that’s too much to ask.
And that is when we are executing double teams!
The next game, look at the personnel of the defense and how few guys they are sending after Eli. And, yet, with minimal commitment, the defensive line is stuffing the run completely. Only finally are they not also causing turnstile protection.
The fewer guys rushing the QB, the more that sit in coverage.
Eli is near the end of his career. But he was always a pure pocket QB with limited mobility. And for several years now, he is undercut by an offensive line that doesn't allow the team to run the ball against defensive schemes that are asking us to run the ball while they keep more guys in coverage.
This. The drafting at OL under Reese was horrible and that affects the entire offense. If you can't run the ball, the O becomes one dimensional and play-action goes out the window.
2014 Y/A: 7.3
2015 Y/A: 7.2
2016 Y/A: 6.7
2017 Y/A: 6.1
2018 Y/A: 7.4
Its just a poor article in his long line of ones. We should expect better than this from our beat coverage people.
If they expected things to work seamlessly, then they should have their heads checked.
Stay the course and compete next year if there is notable improvement throughout the rest of the season. Otherwise, maybe you look to the future.
Seriously do appreciate everyone reading and following, regardless of some of the comments in this thread. Enjoy the game tonight.
In comment 14119044 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 14119037 JordanRaanan said:
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Nice try. AIR yards per attempt. That's the average distance he throws the ball in the air, not the amount of yards that could be gained in part by a player breaking 5 tackles and running for a 50-yard gain. They are different stats.
In comment 14118772 Ira said:
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In comment 14118678 jeff57 said:
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Manning is 32nd in the NFL with an average of 10.31 yards per completion. He's tied for 28th with a touchdown on 3.2 percent of his pass attempts. His 7.02 air yards per attempt put him 29th among quarterbacks.
“All you have to do is watch him,” one NFL executive said. “Don’t think about what his name is. Just watch him. Don’t make excuses. It’s blatant and obvious.”
I don't know where JR gets his stats. I get them from ESPN. Eli is 19th in the league in 7.39 yards per attempt behind an o-line that hasn't given him much time. And that's one of his worst stats. With regard to the unnamed NFL exec, I do watch him and see a qb that does well when he's not constantly under attack by unblocked pass rushers. Link - ( New Window )
And what makes you believe that's not a result the offense or what he's being asked to do?
Both Shurmur, Eli, and formerly Case Keenum are quoted as saying the philosophy is not to take risks down the field, and rather check down and try for explosive plays with YAC.
Again.... our run game is one of the worst since 201... how about some in depth information about that?
Oh wait that’s too much to ask.
It amazes me that the media continues to focus on Beckham meanwhile they ignore Antonio Brown's behavior. Once Brown does something it is reported once and then it's forgotten. Here is an article of Brown's antics this season that I am sure few know about. Meanwhile Beckham is vilified for the Carolina game and for hitting a kickers net.
Link - ( New Window )
It's not a run stopping defense, it's a defense that tends to indicate your front seven is stopping the run without the safety up in the box as an extra.
Bingo...
Only once has this team won 12 games with Eli as the QB - in 2008. That was clearly the best Giants team of the entire era. The biggest reason for that is that the offensive line was, for much of that year, elite. The Giants were first in the league with 2500 yards rushing, and third in the league in points scored. Our leading receiver was Domenik Hixon with 596 yards.
That team should have been the model...certainly on offense. Instead we have continued to build from the outside in by investing massive resources where we shouldn't. Think about what we have invested in Barkley, Beckham, Engram, and Shepard while spending years with the likes of Bobby Hart, John Jerry, Brett Jones, DJ Fluker, etc. protecting our quarterback.
A shiny house built on a foundation of sand.
So the follow up article had the headline: "Readers Choice: Tom Coughlin Should Walk Away from the Giants". I know that editors often write the headlines, but if you read the follow-up piece about the results, you wouldn't have known that most Giants fans wanted Coughlin to stay.
(http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/12/readers_choice_tom_coughlin_walks_away_from_giants.html)
Towards the end of his NJ.com tenure, I thought he improved and put out some good stuff. Once he went to ESPN, he reverted to clickbait crap.
Only once has this team won 12 games with Eli as the QB - in 2008. That was clearly the best Giants team of the entire era. The biggest reason for that is that the offensive line was, for much of that year, elite. The Giants were first in the league with 2500 yards rushing, and third in the league in points scored. Our leading receiver was Domenik Hixon with 596 yards.
That team should have been the model...certainly on offense. Instead we have continued to build from the outside in by investing massive resources where we shouldn't. Think about what we have invested in Barkley, Beckham, Engram, and Shepard while spending years with the likes of Bobby Hart, John Jerry, Brett Jones, DJ Fluker, etc. protecting our quarterback.
A shiny house built on a foundation of sand.
So the follow up article had the headline: "Readers Choice: Tom Coughlin Should Walk Away from the Giants". I know that editors often write the headlines, but if you read the follow-up piece about the results, you wouldn't have known that most Giants fans wanted Coughlin to stay.
(http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/12/readers_choice_tom_coughlin_walks_away_from_giants.html)
Towards the end of his NJ.com tenure, I thought he improved and put out some good stuff. Once he went to ESPN, he reverted to clickbait crap.
Absolutely.
There's no way that he has evidence. This is what ESPN does now.
I've always been a big fan/supporter of Eli, but I hope we draft a good one come May '19. Eli has been part of the problem the last 3 years, not really sure how any objective observer can claim otherwise. Not getting anywhere near $22.2 Million worth of QB play.
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Because it has been on a precipitous decline since 2014. So, yes, the new offense can be part of that. No doubt. But it seems to be part of a bigger trend.
Seriously do appreciate everyone reading and following, regardless of some of the comments in this thread. Enjoy the game tonight.
In comment 14119044 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 14119037 JordanRaanan said:
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Nice try. AIR yards per attempt. That's the average distance he throws the ball in the air, not the amount of yards that could be gained in part by a player breaking 5 tackles and running for a 50-yard gain. They are different stats.
In comment 14118772 Ira said:
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In comment 14118678 jeff57 said:
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Manning is 32nd in the NFL with an average of 10.31 yards per completion. He's tied for 28th with a touchdown on 3.2 percent of his pass attempts. His 7.02 air yards per attempt put him 29th among quarterbacks.
“All you have to do is watch him,” one NFL executive said. “Don’t think about what his name is. Just watch him. Don’t make excuses. It’s blatant and obvious.”
I don't know where JR gets his stats. I get them from ESPN. Eli is 19th in the league in 7.39 yards per attempt behind an o-line that hasn't given him much time. And that's one of his worst stats. With regard to the unnamed NFL exec, I do watch him and see a qb that does well when he's not constantly under attack by unblocked pass rushers. Link - ( New Window )
And what makes you believe that's not a result the offense or what he's being asked to do?
Both Shurmur, Eli, and formerly Case Keenum are quoted as saying the philosophy is not to take risks down the field, and rather check down and try for explosive plays with YAC.
Decline since 2014? Eli threw for 35 TD's and 4500 yards in 2015.
Shhh Britt.....don't bring facts into this clickbait article
Neither of them are playing well though.
I've always been a big fan/supporter of Eli, but I hope we draft a good one come May '19. Eli has been part of the problem the last 3 years, not really sure how any objective observer can claim otherwise. Not getting anywhere near $22.2 Million worth of QB play.
I agree it's time to move on. We aren't getting $22.2M worth of QB play. But we also aren't getting adequate return on our investments in Barkley and Beckham. There's a reason for that.
My biggest concern with the state of the franchise is John Mara felling is things before they happen & can be evaluated.
-He made it clear he wanted Eli back.
-He made it clear Beckham would be extended.
Why are those issues being discussed by him in the media?
What really burns me though is the narrative that Eli has sucked since 2013. Bullshit, the passing game carried the team until McAdoo took over in 16. Since then the offense has sucked. Although Eli looked pretty good in Green Bay that year when the shirtless idiots he was throwing to let him down with drop after drop. But they were showing "passion".
Also, can we stop labeling Engram as a top talent until he produces on a consistent basis. He is hurt now, looks soft to me when he has the ball and drops everything. in sight. I plant him firmly in the overrated category right now.
This will be Eli's last year here, I hope the team can keep him above a winning career win loss record. I also hope the team sucks less so less articles like this will be written. Then everyone will get their wish and see how the shiny new QB works out when he is subjected to the NY media and a Beckham's tantrums when he is not force fed the ball. At least there will be passion.
One final note, want to help Eli, get a below average run game going. This will allow better down and distance and might actually show the league this unit has a pair and can smack some teams in the mouth. Slow down their rush a bit. Now it is always third and forever and they tee off on a pass rush since they are never challenged physically from the pillow soft NYG. I hope they win tonight, but that is my heart, my head expects a two score loss since this team sucks.
Just to add another thought on this post, when has the media EVER thought Eli was good. Remember Assclown Maddog saying Eli will never be accurate above a 60% completion percentage. That douche who never won anything, Boomer Esiason always dogging Eli. Deion Sanders with that phony I believe in Eli. That jealous prick Kurt Warner never giving Eli his due. All the people not wanting to give Eli credit for the SB wins, but for the defense and "The Catch." Eli getting sucked into the whole "Elite" brouhaha when asked the question.
Eli's been shit on his whole career. The media wanting to make this some issue that he's been in decline in these last few years is laughable. HE'S NEVER been given credit by this media, however he just keeps pushing on and when he proves his critics wrong there's always some extenuating circumstance... Oh he had Plax who went up for the ball and didn't need Eli to be accurate, he's got Tiki, he's got a good D behind him, it's only in the playoffs where he shines.
Rocco got it right by saying Eli doesn't need us peons to defend him. He's going to retire a rich man 10 times over and live out a great life, but man would I love to see this guy stick it these media douche bags just one more time. Then I could be happy as a long time Giants fan watching Eli walk off into the sunset.
My biggest concern with the state of the franchise is John Mara felling is things before they happen & can be evaluated.
-He made it clear he wanted Eli back.
-He made it clear Beckham would be extended.
Why are those issues being discussed by him in the media?
Mara said it himself, right? Beckham is a popular player, and I think that matters to Mara. I think Mara is extremely sensitive to the customer service part of running the team, and he ways what the fans want pretty heavily.
The problem with that is that many fans aren't all that bright, or even if they are don't think much past the next season. I think it was Bobby Knight that said, more or less, "If you listen to what the fans want pretty soon you'll be sitting with them."
Beckham was never, ever getting traded. I think Mara sees a bunch of kids and millenials in Beckham throwbacks and it impacts his thinking.
I've always been a big fan/supporter of Eli, but I hope we draft a good one come May '19. Eli has been part of the problem the last 3 years, not really sure how any objective observer can claim otherwise. Not getting anywhere near $22.2 Million worth of QB play.
Funny? According to PFF the Bengals offensive line is ranked 30th in the NFL. Hart has a 56.3 grade which ranks 27th. Hart is still not an NFL caliber player.
Also, Brett Jones is not starting for Minnesota. Do a little research.
That was a big reason why initially I liked the Gettleman hire. I thought it reduced the likelihood of Beckham being here long term. But that hope was quickly dashed in his opening press conference when he mumbled some BS about not giving up on talent. Ugh.
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state that Bobby Hart isn't an NFL tackle, yet is doing just fine on a 3-1 Bengal team. Jones is starting for Minny last I saw also.
I've always been a big fan/supporter of Eli, but I hope we draft a good one come May '19. Eli has been part of the problem the last 3 years, not really sure how any objective observer can claim otherwise. Not getting anywhere near $22.2 Million worth of QB play.
I agree it's time to move on. We aren't getting $22.2M worth of QB play. But we also aren't getting adequate return on our investments in Barkley and Beckham. There's a reason for that.
I get that you hate Beckham, but he literally produced at a level never before seen through the first 3 seasons of his career (obviously was injured last year). With him on a rookie contract, how the hell is that not considered an adequate return on investment? What more did you want him to do?
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I think the day he made the one-handed catch in a losing effort on a 3-9 team when Twitter blew up, he was too valuable in terms of star exposure & sales. I’m not so sure Gettleman would have given him the contract though if it was solely up to him.
That was a big reason why initially I liked the Gettleman hire. I thought it reduced the likelihood of Beckham being here long term. But that hope was quickly dashed in his opening press conference when he mumbled some BS about not giving up on talent. Ugh.
The line about not giving up on talent was about Apple and Flowers. Obviously the latter failed even with the clean slate.
Beckham's produced as a top 3 WR since he's been here and only starting next year will has cap hit actually be indicative of that.
People get wrapped up in this Top 3 or Top 5 bullshit...if being on the NFL's top 100 show blows your hair back, that's great. But on Sundays when this team loses and the offense sucks, I don't care about Beckham being a top anything. His stats are irrelevant to me. I know they're not irrelevant to the fans that buy his jersey and follow him on Instagram, and I know Beckham cares because he takes zero ownership of the losses and tells us he is great, but when I waste another three hours watching this team look like shit on Sunday I don't care about Beckham's numbers.
Knock Ranaan all you want, but this is absolutely spot on.