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Let's get something crystal clear on Eli..

FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2018 10:33 pm
I keep seeing the game thread littered with people saying that there are a bunch of posters who don't think Eli is part of the problem and all they are doing is attacking "Eli haters".

Who doesn't think Eli is part of the problem? Seriously? The vast majority of posts tonight are acting like Eli is fucking up what otherwise is a win.

Eli is part of the problem. "Eli haters" think he's the only fucking problem. There are several problems on this team but simple-minded nimwits keep trying to pigeon-hole it into a debate that if you don't want Eli tarred and feathered, you are a "fanboy" and the stance that Eli is the problem with this team has to be acknowledged.

It doesn't. The team stinks right now is all aspects.

Why is this so fucking hard to understand??
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RE: RE: Who are the Eli haters?  
BlackLight : 10/11/2018 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14121649 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14121586 Sean said:


Quote:


Calling out his play does not make someone an Eli hater. That is a bullshit narrative.



It's the notion that Eli is the sole reason why we're not winning games


And that there was another QB available in the draft or free agency who'd be doing better at the moment.
Yep..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2018 11:04 pm : link
this is exactly the shit that gets said:

Quote:
This team def has other issues but Eli has been consistently horrendous for 6 years straight and that’s the one constant. Accept it.


Josh - accept that we drafted Barkley.

Why the fuck is that so difficult to get over?? The guy is fucking amazing.
RE: RE: Who are the Eli haters?  
jcn56 : 10/11/2018 11:06 pm : link
In comment 14121649 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14121586 Sean said:


Quote:


Calling out his play does not make someone an Eli hater. That is a bullshit narrative.



It's the notion that Eli is the sole reason why we're not winning games


Where is anyone saying he's the sole reason we're losing?
Look..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2018 11:07 pm : link
at the game thread.
The Giants have a horrible offense with maybe the best WR in football,  
baadbill : 10/11/2018 11:08 pm : link
the best RB in football, and one of the best TEs. I have no idea if Manning is a positive or a negative because I’m convinced you could add any QB in history to this team and they’d still be 1-5 and the worst offense in football.

You cannot play football at any level if you don’t have an OL. This offense sucks and it sucks for one reason. It is the clear worst OL in football for the second straight season. Maybe Manning is a negative. But it’s a moot point since they would be 1-5 regardless of who was playing QB.
RE: Yep..  
jcn56 : 10/11/2018 11:08 pm : link
In comment 14121847 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
this is exactly the shit that gets said:



Quote:


This team def has other issues but Eli has been consistently horrendous for 6 years straight and that’s the one constant. Accept it.



Josh - accept that we drafted Barkley.

Why the fuck is that so difficult to get over?? The guy is fucking amazing.


Not sure where this one came from either, as Josh has been blaming Eli for the team's offensive woes since Barkley was in high school.
RE: It’s psychologically easier  
V.I.G. : 10/11/2018 11:09 pm : link
In comment 14121527 family progtitioner said:
Quote:
To blame one guy than it is to accept the fact that the giants are the new browns.

I don't think anyone is saying this is a 5-1 roster. But this is a god awful 1-5 team.

29 other QBs could make this a respectable 1-5
20 other QBs could make this a 3-3 team

IMO
the oline is bad  
nygiants16 : 10/11/2018 11:10 pm : link
but eli can not move, he can not even feel the pressure anymore, he cant even simply step up...

he just simply can not move, and he is not accurate whem he gets time
There is no team on the field...  
bradshaw44 : 10/11/2018 11:24 pm : link
There is Barkley and some other guys wearing white that I think are supposed to help him.

We are so far from compteting I genuinely genuinely think we should try and trade many of our biggest supposed assets. Beckham, Collins, Jenkins, and Vernon to name a few. Sure their contracts make it tough, but I would entertain offers for sure.
RE: RE: Yep..  
Josh in the City : 10/11/2018 11:26 pm : link
In comment 14121908 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14121847 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


this is exactly the shit that gets said:



Quote:


This team def has other issues but Eli has been consistently horrendous for 6 years straight and that’s the one constant. Accept it.



Josh - accept that we drafted Barkley.

Why the fuck is that so difficult to get over?? The guy is fucking amazing.



Not sure where this one came from either, as Josh has been blaming Eli for the team's offensive woes since Barkley was in high school.


Yep, I’ve been blaming eli for this team’s offensive woes since eli started deserving the blame for this team’s offensive woes. The rest of you guys are finally starting to realize that maybe I was right. As much as I love him for those two super bowl runs, smart fans can’t be blinded by bias and have to admit what their eyes tell them. Not what the heart wants to believe.
Eli sucks  
BigK : 10/11/2018 11:30 pm : link
Defense sucks, oline sucks. Terrible team
a mobile QB would really help with the other players we have,  
Del Shofner : 10/11/2018 11:35 pm : link
and Eli ain't mobile. So it's a bad fit. I love Eli but, big picture, it's time to start moving on in our thinking. Good OLs aren't growing on trees in college ball any more either, so I think mobility is going to be a need going forward.
Nice to see...  
bw in dc : 10/11/2018 11:40 pm : link
Archie Manning in Charlotte leading the charge to protect Eli.
Did you  
Jerry in DC : 10/11/2018 11:42 pm : link
Really ask who doesn't think eli is part of the problem? On bbi? Seriously? You could probably find 100s of posts that literally say eli is not the problem.
So glad we have Dep and FMIC  
oldutican : 10/11/2018 11:44 pm : link
to tell everyone how stupid they are. Never mind that there is no one who doesn’t realize that both Eli and the line are bad and the reasons the offense sucks.
He is just part of the problem..  
EricJ : 10/11/2018 11:52 pm : link
and I have said he is the worst QB for THIS OL. Other QBs would struggle for sure playing behind these guys. Eli has no shot really when they play like this while someone else can use his athleticism to still make some plays.
RE: So glad we have Dep and FMIC  
dep026 : 10/11/2018 11:53 pm : link
In comment 14122379 oldutican said:
Quote:
to tell everyone how stupid they are. Never mind that there is no one who doesn’t realize that both Eli and the line are bad and the reasons the offense sucks.


Not everyone. Just a select few. Must have ring hime a little bit for you.
The offensive line  
joeinpa : 10/12/2018 12:18 am : link
is a sieve, and Eli is an immobile quarterback who can not be consistently successful behind it.

Fix the line, Eli would be better, put a mobile quarterback like Wentz behind that line, and the offense would probably be better.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

The posts that totally absolve or blame Eli, are equally ridiculous.

RE: The offensive line  
nygiants16 : 10/12/2018 12:20 am : link
In comment 14122679 joeinpa said:
Quote:
is a sieve, and Eli is an immobile quarterback who can not be consistently successful behind it.

Fix the line, Eli would be better, put a mobile quarterback like Wentz behind that line, and the offense would probably be better.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

The posts that totally absolve or blame Eli, are equally ridiculous.


the offensive line would need to be a brick wall
I 100% agree with the contents of this post regarding Eli.  
JustaDiscussion : 10/12/2018 12:40 am : link
He is part of a failing complex system with multiple problems. His spot on the overall Pareto of problems can be debated in many ways.

I do not, however, agree with the tone that this post uses to attack those with a differing opinion. This seems to be like the pot calling the kettle black. I believe that both "sides" of the Eli debate use hyperbole and attack the character of posters instead of using stats and logic. I can understand how short sighted view points can get annoying, but I've never seen anybody win a debate or prove a point during a discussion just by insulting another person.
I've seen people suggest extending Eli  
AcesUp : 10/12/2018 1:25 am : link
More than a few. That's not "he's part of the problem talk". I could only speak for myself but I feel the need to criticize Eli because he's the only weakness on this team that people defend. I don't see anybody caping for the OL.
RE: Nice to see...  
Les in TO : 10/12/2018 5:51 am : link
In comment 14122312 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Archie Manning in Charlotte leading the charge to protect Eli.
lol
The problem is, at his salary  
mattnyg05 : 10/12/2018 6:15 am : link
and with these results, it is a tough pill to swallow.

Love Eli but he stinks right now. You can’t shake the feeling that if a GM was brought in from “outside the box” that they would have pushed strongly for some kind of move in the offseason. The coach literally yelled “throw the ball” and waved his hand down the field. Our o line sucks, our defense sucks, but unfortunately right now the quarterback sucks.

He cannot make a play. The first Wentz TD pass is something Eli absolutely wouldn’t be able to do under any circumstances right now. The precious few times he does get solid protection, he’s looking to dump the ball off, which is what set Shurmur off on the sideline. It won’t help because the team is broken but I bet the wheels are turning for some kind of move (whether it’s the “we’re gonna get Lauletta some time in the second half of games if the score permits” or something more drastic).
The OL sucks. No disputing that.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/12/2018 6:23 am : link
But Eli is done. I love the man, but it's time to move on.
RE: Who are the Eli haters?  
BigBlue4You09 : 10/12/2018 6:25 am : link
In comment 14121586 Sean said:
Quote:
Calling out his play does not make someone an Eli hater. That is a bullshit narrative.


That’s not what he said. At all. It’s people saying he’s the ONLY reason the team sucks, there are plenty here.
I think most recognize the OL sucks, D is mediocre & it’s not ALL Eli  
TD : 10/12/2018 6:26 am : link
But there are a number of posters (not to mention, our GM) who in the offseason thought Eli had a few good years left and also thought we could be competitive this year. I think a lot of the Eli “hate” is directed at them.
As can see it's many parts that are the problem..many not just the qb  
micky : 10/12/2018 6:33 am : link
Yes.

How to straighten all this ...how? Is the big question. After trying year after year now. Major problem
If hate needs to spread to  
dep026 : 10/12/2018 6:34 am : link
Posters who wanted Eli to succeed, then that’s sad.
RE: If hate needs to spread to  
TD : 10/12/2018 6:47 am : link
In comment 14122963 dep026 said:
Quote:
Posters who wanted Eli to succeed, then that’s sad.


Disingenuous.

Everyone WANTED Eli to succeed but many SAW that he likely was done. They at the same time as wanting Eli to succeed, wanted to draft his replacement. They probably also love Saquon (as I do - I mean, how can you not) but realize this is a QB driven league and great RBs can only do so much and, importantly, can only last so long.
RE: Eli is a major problem  
Matt M. : 10/12/2018 7:06 am : link
In comment 14121782 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
No way around it and now even some of the Eli diehards are forced to come around (even a little). If the offense got some momentum and scored some points and sustained some drives you’d be shocked to see what kind of impact that could have on the defense. This team def has other issues but Eli has been consistently horrendous for 6 years straight and that’s the one constant. Accept it.
It really helps when people don't make shit up. In 2014 and 2015 Eli had probably his 2 best seasons. That was with virtually the same OL he had the last 2 years. So 6 years straight is ridiculously wrong.
Eli will be gone after this year....  
dep026 : 10/12/2018 7:08 am : link
I just wonder who the next whipping boy is gonna be when we suck again next year.

Eli  
liteamorn : 10/12/2018 7:52 am : link
Is shell shocked, He's looking for pressure before it's there. He's throwing the ball early and he's throwing it late and when he does let it go he's missing his receivers.
This is what happens when you're old, immobile and play behind a line that allows you to be hit 10-12 times a game.
It's over for Eli, LAST week was his last hurrah , but when Eli threw it directly to the Saint coverage...TWICE, it was over.
I may be giving Beckham to much credit here but I think he's mad at the same things we are, the D has given up and walks through the plays, this Oline is abysmal and Eli's play has deteriorated
...  
Dodge : 10/12/2018 7:53 am : link
who the fuck thinks Eli is the only problem?
RE: ...  
dep026 : 10/12/2018 7:54 am : link
In comment 14123110 Dodge said:
Quote:
who the fuck thinks Eli is the only problem?


More than you think.
RE: Who are the Eli haters?  
Mr. Bungle : 10/12/2018 7:56 am : link
In comment 14121586 Sean said:
Quote:
Calling out his play does not make someone an Eli hater. That is a bullshit narrative.

Eli was called a "clown" by someone who only posts on BBI when the Giants are bad and hides when they're good.

So, yes, hater.
...  
christian : 10/12/2018 8:08 am : link
Oh please. He's the highest paid, most visible player, face of the franchise QB, who the entire perennially bad offense runs through.

This is literally and figuratively what holding onto a player one year too long looks like.

It's the epitome of what lots of people feared was going to going to happen and it's unfolding like a terrible joke.

When Patrick Omameh, or Nate Solder, or Cody Latimer, or Jenoris Jenkins, or Kareem Martin or anyone else has a dreadful stretch of games there isn't a chorus of the same posters lining up excuses.

You have posters on this site saying Manning has earned the right to play however long he wants because he won 2 Super Bowls.

There was an off-season of the same suspects saying they were (and they have) going to gloat that they were right about Manning returning.

So I hope the crew in their Manning footie jammies, holding their Manning commemorable teddy bears are really enjoying this.
What..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/12/2018 8:10 am : link
changed from last night to the previous two seasons??

Quote:
Yep, I’ve been blaming eli for this team’s offensive woes since eli started deserving the blame for this team’s offensive woes. The rest of you guys are finally starting to realize that maybe I was right. As much as I love him for those two super bowl runs, smart fans can’t be blinded by bias and have to admit what their eyes tell them. Not what the heart wants to believe.


This is exactly the type of post I'm referring to in the OP. Josh has been blaming Eli for the team's woes for 6 years. Patting himself on the back to say Eli is a shitty QB.

Yet, what changed from yesterday to last year? Nothing. But we lose against Philly and it is like a funeral dirge is going on with snickers about Checkdown Charlie and acting as if Eli is just crumbling in the face of phantom pressure.

While it is borne out of frustration, exactly what led so many to conclude on the threads last night, "AHA!! ELi is the cause of this disaster"? This is a poor football team. On my screen, when the giants had a couple 3rd and longs early on, did you guys also see the Eagles in a defensive formation where the front 4 was visible and everyone else was so far back in coverage that they were off the screen, so we threw short and I go to the game thread and you literally have people flipping out that we aren't throwing it deep!

Frustration that gives a platform for snark. I wanted the Giants to draft a QB and I have said for several years that Eli is part of the problem because his lack of mobility isn't a good fit on a team with a terrible OL. But because I call out fucking asswipes like Les who call people "Eli fanboys", or bw who acts like Manning shit on his duvet on draft day and admits holding that against Eli since, I'm looked at as an apologist or even the rather funny "Archie Manning in Charlotte"?

Even Josh used this thread to say, "I was right all along. Finally people are seeing it". No I'm not seeing it. Replace the QB on this team and we are still a bad team. We're still a frustrated team with a few players who look terrible when frustrated. We have some pieces, and I actually think we'll have a OL fix with parts of the current group. But it will be more for Barkley's team and a new signal caller when it comes together.

I'll say it again - I keep getting called an Eli apologist, but I'm just being what I've always been on BBI - a counter-point to terrible posts and takes. And since so many shitty takes are made regarding Eli, that's where you see the crap being thrown.
The ironic thing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/12/2018 8:12 am : link
is, you don't think there's a fucking thing wrong with this line of thought:

Quote:
So I hope the crew in their Manning footie jammies, holding their Manning commemorable teddy bears are really enjoying this.


That's part of the problem. People actually don't mind seeing the team fail to rub it in poster's faces.
Thanks for letting us know  
arniefez : 10/12/2018 8:17 am : link
what opinions we are allowed to have about the QB on a NY Giants internet fan board. It would be helpful if you covered a lot of other subjects not just Eli.

What are we allowed to say about

the owners?

the GM?

the coaches?

feel free to add to the list. it's hard for some of us to know all the state run talking points. It will prevent the independent thought or non sanctioned opinions that seem to drive you into a rage.

The part that I really dont get..  
EricJ : 10/12/2018 8:17 am : link
Although marginally improved from last year, the OL still sucks. Eli's clock in his head is damaged due to the sub par play of the OL to the point where there are times when he does not realize that he has time to throw and he still rushes his decision making and mechanics.

So, even improving the OL a little more right now may not yield the results that we are expecting out of Eli.
RE: The ironic thing..  
christian : 10/12/2018 8:23 am : link
In comment 14123160 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is, you don't think there's a fucking thing wrong with this line of thought:



Quote:


So I hope the crew in their Manning footie jammies, holding their Manning commemorable teddy bears are really enjoying this.



That's part of the problem. People actually don't mind seeing the team fail to rub it in poster's faces.


You couldn't be any more wrong. This season is an absolute punch to the gut. It literally makes me sad.

But you are right -- I absolutely don't think it's wrong to get a chuckle out of the the lengths both the fans and organization have gone to, to hold onto an aging and declining QB.

With this total heap of shit strewn on the field every week, it's either laugh or cry.
Is it at all possible...  
BamaBlue : 10/12/2018 8:24 am : link
the OL is bad AND Eli is bad; together they are a disaster?
Lets get this crystal clear too...  
Jimmy Googs : 10/12/2018 8:26 am : link
The Giants ultimately aren't going to get better until we remove Eli from under center.

It may be the same for awhile, and may even get worse for a bit. But it will ultimately get better, and if we find the right guy it may go quicker.

But this is a waste of time...

Bama..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/12/2018 8:28 am : link
it sure is. which is why I've said eli is PART of the problem.

You replace eli and behind this line, any QB, including a mobile one will struggle. People are seeing what they want anymore. Eli fumbled at the 1 yard line and there were several posts saying he could've stepped up and made a throw, on a play where Solder was beaten immediately.

Heck, you even have one guy saying that all 31 other 31 QB's wouldn't have been sacked there (and no, I'm not making that up).
Though I won’t throw in any towel for the Eli we see now,  
Big Blue '56 : 10/12/2018 8:29 am : link
it appears, APPEARS to me that my biggest fear during the offseason may be coming to fruition-PTSD. If you don’t think so, fine. I don’t have the energy for debate at the moment.

Let’s see what w have in KL, BEFORE we rush to take one of the “name” college QBs in lieu of much needed help elsewhere, starting with the OL, should a stud be available
The Bell Curve...  
BamaBlue : 10/12/2018 8:33 am : link
In comment 14123224 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
RE: Bama... it sure is. which is why I've said eli is PART of the problem.

You replace eli and behind this line, any QB, including a mobile one will struggle. People are seeing what they want anymore. Eli fumbled at the 1 yard line and there were several posts saying he could've stepped up and made a throw, on a play where Solder was beaten immediately.

Heck, you even have one guy saying that all 31 other 31 QB's wouldn't have been sacked there (and no, I'm not making that up).


Giants fans fit the Bell Curve very neatly... 10% crazy at both polar opposites of the "Eli spectrum" and 80% people who see a bunch of problems that can't be fixed overnight, or with a single position player.
RE: Bama..  
EricJ : 10/12/2018 8:36 am : link
In comment 14123224 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
it sure is. which is why I've said eli is PART of the problem.

You replace eli and behind this line, any QB, including a mobile one will struggle.


I agree with you that another QB would also struggle and would add that the offense still would not look great. However, other QBs would have a "chance" to make a play here and there.

The league has evolved as it always is. Right now, we are watching the pass rushers often dominate the OLs. They are much more athletic and even guys we thought were good OLs are getting beaten. Fans want the Eagles to move on from Jason Peters in case people here are not hearing that. So with that said, today's QBs cannot just sit back there anymore. It does not mean he cannot make a play or two and win a game or two... but what it means is your chances for success are going to be reduced because the comfort of your pocket is not what it used to be.
Last night was the turning point for me.  
Big Al : 10/12/2018 8:37 am : link
I have not commented on Eli here and thought we might get some good years from him. No more. We don’t have a good team and Eli is not the whole problem but we need something different here if we are going to change things around. I realize I am not adding to the conversation but had to get that off my chest.

At least we have one thing entertaining about this team and hope we don’t waste too many of his years while we rebuild. It would be a shame to be a later day Detroit Lions in the Barry Sanders years. Those fans got entertained but never won anything.
Last night was the turning point for me.  
Big Al : 10/12/2018 8:38 am : link
I have not commented on Eli here and thought we might get some good years from him. No more. We don’t have a good team and Eli is not the whole problem but we need something different here if we are going to change things around. I realize I am not adding to the conversation but had to get that off my chest.

At least we have one thing entertaining about this team and hope we don’t waste too many of his years while we rebuild. It would be a shame to be a later day Detroit Lions in the Barry Sanders years. Those fans got entertained but never won anything.
RE: Last night was the turning point for me.  
christian : 10/12/2018 9:25 am : link
In comment 14123271 Big Al said:
Quote:
I have not commented on Eli here and thought we might get some good years from him. No more. We don’t have a good team and Eli is not the whole problem but we need something different here if we are going to change things around. I realize I am not adding to the conversation but had to get that off my chest.

At least we have one thing entertaining about this team and hope we don’t waste too many of his years while we rebuild. It would be a shame to be a later day Detroit Lions in the Barry Sanders years. Those fans got entertained but never won anything.


Last night should do it to everyone. Eagles fans chanting an encore on national TV after laying the lumber on the Giants is the worst.

The fans should be pissed. The point of rooting and investing in the team is in the hopes of being entertained in the pursuit of winning.

It's not some ephemeral, esoteric concept of Eli Manning (or any player), or that player's supporters feeling respected.

The Giants suck and the quarterback they are dragging out there is shot. It's the worst quarterback play the Giants have witnessed this century.

The fans forgiving this nostalgia act are complicit. The most visible vote of no confidence is not showing up.
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