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Barkley - Reflection on using 2nd Pick

commonthe0ry : 10/12/2018 7:16 am
What are you guys thoughts on drafting Barkley second? He looks like a generational talent/HOF to me and if healthy at 21 has so much more time for us to build a winner around him. Why are soo many saying it was a huge mistake? It is obvious Eli needs to be replaced, but people are acting like we cant use other picks in the future to take a QB, odds weren't any better in 2018 Draft were they of finding our guy (and even if we took QB this season wouldn't be playing any different). What are your thoughts on this line of thinking?
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RE: The problem is,  
LS : 10/12/2018 8:47 am : link
In comment 14123049 Doomster said:
Quote:
by the time he gets an OL in front of him, and a new qb, he could be a shell of what he is now...

This organization failed, to upgrade it's OL since 2010.....and we are have no end in sight for this problem....


+1 Love Eli, but he isn't a fit for this offense especially with this line in front of him. I think in another system, on a different team, he would play very well.
Letís just caveat the Rams situation...  
bw in dc : 10/12/2018 8:48 am : link
Yes, they chose Gurley then Goff.

But you canít underestimate the Sean McVay factor. That guy seems to have a batch of magic dust that no one else can order or make...
We're looking to wind up with SB  
JonC : 10/12/2018 8:50 am : link
and the best QB prospect in the next draft.

It's over with, SB is a tremendous talent out there. Open the eyes and soak him in, and know the QB isn't far behind him.
He is  
mdthedream : 10/12/2018 8:53 am : link
the best talented RB in the league. Just on eye test alone. The guy has sick talent.
Barry Sanders  
arniefez : 10/12/2018 8:54 am : link
career record was 78-82 with 1 playoff win for his career.

Running back is a non essential complimentary position.

QB's win championships.

Barkley is as advertised but he'll just be a side show until they get him a very good QB. They better get that QB fast because RB's have a short shelf life.
RE: To dismiss  
Bill L : 10/12/2018 8:55 am : link
In comment 14123075 joeinpa said:
Quote:
The opinion of a guy like Boomer Eaison because he s a "Giants Hater" is silly

By the way Boomer also reiterated the idea that Gettleman hire was contingent upon keeping Eli which would be a much bigger concern if true.
In all likelihood he's just picking up Ranaan's dross and trying to make it sound like he knows something. That's generally how these things work...someone makes something up, somebody else repeats it, soon it becomes gospel and treated as fact. Nobody ever goes and checks on the truth of things.
RE: Barry Sanders  
Bill L : 10/12/2018 8:56 am : link
In comment 14123339 arniefez said:
Quote:
career record was 78-82 with 1 playoff win for his career.

Running back is a non essential complimentary position.

QB's win championships.

Barkley is as advertised but he'll just be a side show until they get him a very good QB. They better get that QB fast because RB's have a short shelf life.
You can play that same game with tons of talented QB's. Anecdotes make the basis for poor policy.
Yep, draft an athletic QB and let him compete  
Jimmy Googs : 10/12/2018 8:56 am : link
with Lauletta. See if you can land another OL in free agency and another in Rd 2.

Keep restructuring, but replacing the guy under center will actually make it move faster...

Yep..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/12/2018 9:00 am : link
this must be very comforting to Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, Boomer Esiason or even those stellar to draft QB's like Ryan Leaf, JeMarcus Russell, Rick Mirer and RGIII.

Quote:
Barry Sanders
arniefez : 8:54 am : link : reply
career record was 78-82 with 1 playoff win for his career.

Running back is a non essential complimentary position.

QB's win championships.
What makes you think G-Men are going to get a decetn QB?  
giantstock : 10/12/2018 9:02 am : link
By the time they get an offensive line, get a pass rusher and we can see teh secondary isn't very good - and get a decent to very good QB -- how long before Barkley begins to fade?

With a QB - 2nd pick overall - you'd have a 10 year run. You could have gotten a good rb in rd 2 or 3 etc.
RE: What makes you think G-Men are going to get a decetn QB?  
giants#1 : 10/12/2018 9:05 am : link
In comment 14123368 giantstock said:
Quote:
By the time they get an offensive line, get a pass rusher and we can see teh secondary isn't very good - and get a decent to very good QB -- how long before Barkley begins to fade?

With a QB - 2nd pick overall - you'd have a 10 year run. You could have gotten a good rb in rd 2 or 3 etc.


Todd Gurley doesn't look like he's fading...
RE: We're looking to wind up with SB  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 10/12/2018 9:05 am : link
In comment 14123320 JonC said:
Quote:
and the best QB prospect in the next draft.

It's over with, SB is a tremendous talent out there. Open the eyes and soak him in, and know the QB isn't far behind him.


He really is a beast. He's really the only reason to watch this team right now.
RE: What makes you think G-Men are going to get a decetn QB?  
Bill L : 10/12/2018 9:06 am : link
In comment 14123368 giantstock said:
Quote:
By the time they get an offensive line, get a pass rusher and we can see teh secondary isn't very good - and get a decent to very good QB -- how long before Barkley begins to fade?

With a QB - 2nd pick overall - you'd have a 10 year run. You could have gotten a good rb in rd 2 or 3 etc.

Ereck Flowers
RBs are one of the positions  
Metnut : 10/12/2018 9:06 am : link
that get hurt the most and have very short primes. We might be able to build a winner with Barkley but we're looking at another top 3 pick with this awful QB play.
RE: Simple as this  
DonQuixote : 10/12/2018 9:07 am : link
In comment 14123081 jcn56 said:
Quote:
longer term, so long as none of the '18 QBs (save for Mayfield) turn out to be good to great, they win.

If any of them do, and they don't manage to get a good or better QB in 2019, they lose.


Itís not that simple. Not only do one of the QBs have to pan out, we would have to have picked the right one.

I wanted to draft a QB and still want a new QB, but it was not a mistake to draft Barkley, who may very well become the best offensive player in the league. Who knows, itís possible. That is a great draft pick.
I'm going to enjoy SB grow into an absolute monster  
JonC : 10/12/2018 9:15 am : link
and pick a terrific QB in April.
RE: All one has..  
Thegratefulhead : 10/12/2018 9:15 am : link
In comment 14123254 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
to do to look at the Rams to see what they did drafting a RB then a QB to see that not all is lost.

If you watch Barkley and think that the Giants made a colossal mistake instead of enjoying the guy instantly look fantastic, I don't know what to say.

but then again - on this thread, you still have at least two posters who think that everything the team has done has been to preserve the legacy of Eli, including hiring a GM and coach who were mandated to keep him.

Fucking morons.
Barkley was the correct pick, we can get a QB next year. Barkley is the best player on the field. That is hindsight thinking on my part. I don't blame anyone who was against pick,8 QB almost always > RB, not this time. I do not believe there was mandate but after what happened after the benching last year, I am sure it sounded really attractive to ownership anyone who said, "We can absolutely win with Eli" I am sure the Mara's are justifiably very fond of Eli.

You have to admit this sucks. I wish he would have retired. Every week, every national pregame, this will be a lead story. They have played this poorly before some of team starts making business decisions. You can't blame them. They know the expected career span of an NFL player. At least Earl Thomas is set. We can expect blowouts and teammates eventually throwing Eli under the bus(started already)This is going to get a lot worse. It was very easy to predict considering the state of the roster.

I am not even mad. I am sad. Our division has the book on Eli and we do not even look competitive in our own division when our rivals are playing like shit. Honestly, it hurts to think about the rest of the season. I just hope Barkley doesn't get hurt trying to be superman in a lost season because that kid is the real deal. Nothing to even argue about anymore. I suppose you can rail against the 2 people that seem to take joy in Eli's demise, but that's nothing to look forward to.
RE: Yep, draft an athletic QB and let him compete  
BillKo : 10/12/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 14123349 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
with Lauletta. See if you can land another OL in free agency and another in Rd 2.

Keep restructuring, but replacing the guy under center will actually make it move faster...


Yep, and in a perfect world, Lauletta proves to be a good backup who you can maybe flip in the future. Key is getting him reps this year - and not screwing it up like the regime did it last year. Have a plan. This is the extended off week - start planning to move him to #2.

I've posted this on other threads...we got the very best player in the draft as of right now. Barkley looks simply awesome.

We'll be in position to draft a QB next year........
RE: Letís just caveat the Rams situation...  
Carson53 : 10/12/2018 9:19 am : link
In comment 14123309 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Yes, they chose Gurley then Goff.

But you canít underestimate the Sean McVay factor. That guy seems to have a batch of magic dust that no one else can order or make...
.


Also, Gurley was coming off an ACL surgery.
It was only about 6 months after his surgery.
So they took him at No. 10 I believe, it has worked out, but there was risk involved there at No. 10.
It's not like he was a second round pick.
How many people on here were calling Goff a bust
after his rookie year as well, you can't judge a QB
in one year.
RE: Barry Sanders  
UConn4523 : 10/12/2018 9:19 am : link
In comment 14123339 arniefez said:
Quote:
career record was 78-82 with 1 playoff win for his career.

Running back is a non essential complimentary position.

QB's win championships.

Barkley is as advertised but he'll just be a side show until they get him a very good QB. They better get that QB fast because RB's have a short shelf life.


Just a putrid post. They have their franchise QB and still canít win, so is it the franchise or your shitty argument thatís the problem - or both?
barkley might already be the best running back in the league  
jintz4life : 10/12/2018 9:22 am : link
i still think it's a poor allocation of capital to take a rb that high but if they tank enough to get another top 2/3 pick for a qb then it may ending up working out all right

a rookie potential franchise qb having weapons like barkley/beckham is pretty appealing
RE: The problem is,  
BillKo : 10/12/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 14123049 Doomster said:
Quote:
This organization failed, to upgrade it's OL since 2010.....and we are have no end in sight for this problem....


I think the one thing to keep in mind is, Gettleman can't worry about what was done in the past - and essentially try to speed things up to satisfy the fans.

Having another lost season sucks for everyone - including him - but he's not sitting there saying wow we have been bad since 2013..........

I believe he has a plan, sure they wanted to contend this year but it's not working out. No one more than him realizes it's a multi year rebuilding plan - due to those bad drafts.

RE: RE: Yep, draft an athletic QB and let him compete  
Jimmy Googs : 10/12/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 14123442 BillKo said:
Quote:

We'll be in position to draft a QB next year........


this is indisputable...
If a mistake was made it was passing on Rosen for Barkley  
Milton : 10/12/2018 9:26 am : link
But I'm happy with Barkley. I'm not a fan of Darnold (I had him ranked 4th among the QB prospects and nothing he's done since then gives me reason to change that opinion).
RE: Barry Sanders  
Mdgiantsfan : 10/12/2018 9:29 am : link
In comment 14123339 arniefez said:
Quote:
career record was 78-82 with 1 playoff win for his career.

Running back is a non essential complimentary position.

QB's win championships.

Barkley is as advertised but he'll just be a side show until they get him a very good QB. They better get that QB fast because RB's have a short shelf life.


So your saying we won the last two championships based primarily on Eli?
RE: To dismiss  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/12/2018 9:31 am : link
In comment 14123075 joeinpa said:
Quote:
The opinion of a guy like Boomer Eaison because he s a "Giants Hater" is silly

By the way Boomer also reiterated the idea that Gettleman hire was contingent upon keeping Eli which would be a much bigger concern if true.

Lol Boomer Esiason.
After last night...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/12/2018 9:32 am : link
I don't know how anyone can deny that SB is a legit game-changer on the field. He absolutely has the potential to alter other team's defensive strategies. He can take over a game when nothing else is working.

Know who else did that? LT. Flash back to that draft.

Should the Giants have picked a QB instead of LT in that draft? Rich Campbell went to the GB Packers @ 6. Would that have been the better move? If you think about positional value, given that Simms was coming off a 48% comp percentage, 15TD/19INT season, why was picking a LB in that situation the right choice?

When you have a chance to get a guy who changes the game you take him. Positions be damned.

SB may not have the career we all want for him, but he is absolutely the game-changer at this point and picking him was absolutely the best choice. Yes, it involves risk. But you don't become a GREAT team by taking the avoiding risk.
Dan hits the bullseye  
JonC : 10/12/2018 9:38 am : link
Contenders aren't built overnight, the QB is coming soon.
I wanted a QB,  
Section331 : 10/12/2018 9:41 am : link
but while I expected Barkley to be very good, he is even better than I thought. We can relitigate the draft all we want, but it won't change anything. Build around Barkley, get him a QB and a better OL. I will say one thing about Gettleman, he showed in his short time in CAR that he can find OL. Taylor Moten in the 2nd round was a downright steal.
While it is too early to evaluate a rookie qb, Darnold isn't exactly  
Ira : 10/12/2018 9:46 am : link
setting the world on fire with his play.
He's fabulous to watch  
Jay in Toronto : 10/12/2018 9:52 am : link
bu history full of lousy teams with great RBs.

I still would have traded back and started a serious rebuild.
I imagine the glee that that  
NoPeanutz : 10/12/2018 9:52 am : link
Fat Fuck frontrunner Steeler fan Chris Carlin will squeal out today in his terrible shrill radio falsetto about passing on one of the 4 medoicre QBs with the terrible pick, or not trading down from #2 for one of the phantom offers that never came, because the idiot Jets blew up the market.
Francesa and Sommers, the two old farts, are the only ones at that station that actually follow the Giants or do not root against them.
RE: He's fabulous to watch  
Bill L : 10/12/2018 9:55 am : link
In comment 14123614 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
bu history full of lousy teams with great RBs.

I still would have traded back and started a serious rebuild.
I suppose quantity over quality is a philosophical question that applies to so many things.

Myself I'd rather have a small number of great to a lot of middlings.
If we drafted a QB we'd be in the same position  
PatersonPlank : 10/12/2018 9:55 am : link
you guys sound like a rookie comes in and is the best player in the league at QB. Who knows if Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield/etc will work. Regardless we would still be playing Eli and be 1-5.

I like the Barkley pick. He' a building block and a dynamic player for years to come. Yes lets get a QB in the draft (whichever one they think is the best), and keep improving the OL.

We are in year 1 of a 2-3 year rebuild
RE: RE: He's fabulous to watch  
NoPeanutz : 10/12/2018 9:59 am : link
In comment 14123630 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14123614 Jay in Toronto said:


Quote:


bu history full of lousy teams with great RBs.

I still would have traded back and started a serious rebuild.

I suppose quantity over quality is a philosophical question that applies to so many things.

Myself I'd rather have a small number of great to a lot of middlings.

Unless there was no offer to trade back. I may be mistaken, but wasn't it the case that the Jets overpaid for #3, and since there were so many QBs in the draft anyway, nobody was offering what the Jets were offering. How pissed would this board have been in Gettleman took less than what the Colts got to trade down so that we could draft for need, and Barkley was inevitably shredding the league even worse with another team (which he would be, since there are about 30 offensive lines in the NFL better than our's), while the Giants now sit at 0-6, since Saquon is literally 90% of our production?
Barkley  
lax counsel : 10/12/2018 10:00 am : link
Is an exceptional talent. He is the best running back in the NFL right now. He makes plays that few can. That being said, we are witnessing first hand the limited impact that a running back has on an offense and a team in general in the modern NFL. He had a huge game last night, and the Giants come away with 13 points. Rarely do you see a QB have a big game and the team not move up and own the field scoring.

On the other side, we saw the Eagles with no names at running back and an extremely talented qb move the ball very well, and most importantly, score points.

Now, as many of you point out, if the Giants come away with Herbert and Barkley, I think we all have to be happy. The more I watch Herbert play, the more I think he transcends the Oregon qb stigma. He makes throws in tight windows that Oregon qbs before simply wouldn't.

This may sound awful, but I am not sure the Giants winning another game this year does much for the franchise beyond 2018. I believe Herbert will declare, so it could all work out in the end.
RE: If we drafted a QB we'd be in the same position  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 10/12/2018 10:02 am : link
In comment 14123632 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
you guys sound like a rookie comes in and is the best player in the league at QB. Who knows if Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield/etc will work. Regardless we would still be playing Eli and be 1-5.

I like the Barkley pick. He' a building block and a dynamic player for years to come. Yes lets get a QB in the draft (whichever one they think is the best), and keep improving the OL.

We are in year 1 of a 2-3 year rebuild


This
Barkley is Maraís...  
bw in dc : 10/12/2018 10:02 am : link
insurance policy. Eli is a disaster. The team is a disaster. Shurmur is a disaster.

But Barkley is The Show; and the fans can still be entertained and still fill the seats. And watch Barkley make incredible run after incredible run.

So for John Mara the message is this - ignore the scoreboard and watch 26. And thanks for coming and paying for concessions.
..  
Dodge : 10/12/2018 10:03 am : link
Anyone listening to Boomer as an expert on anything that happens off the field is an idiot.
RE: Barkley is Maraís...  
Bill L : 10/12/2018 10:05 am : link
In comment 14123654 bw in dc said:
Quote:
insurance policy. Eli is a disaster. The team is a disaster. Shurmur is a disaster.

But Barkley is The Show; and the fans can still be entertained and still fill the seats. And watch Barkley make incredible run after incredible run.

So for John Mara the message is this - ignore the scoreboard and watch 26. And thanks for coming and paying for concessions.


I kind of get that though. I mean, I get upset about the W-L of each individual game, but I'm not employed by the team and I make no money or derive any other benefit from their ultimate positioning. I want to be entertained and, while a losing team full of drek isn't entertaining, I can still derive pleasure (within the angst of losing the game itself) from seeing unusual or incredible pieces.
Bill L...  
bw in dc : 10/12/2018 10:10 am : link
Itís THE single reason to justify the pick - the off the charts entertainment value of 26.

Detroit had the same type of ďROIĒ with Sanders.
Screw what Boomer says  
Somnambulist : 10/12/2018 10:36 am : link
Saquon is the best RB I've ever seen; Gettleman was right, he's touched by God. Period. He was absolutely the right pick. We will put the rest of the pieces together in the coming years. No way we should have passed on that talent.
If they find a suitable to successor to Eli, it's no issue.  
bceagle05 : 10/12/2018 10:49 am : link
That's always been the reality, as much as the "hot take" NY media likes to make it sound like Barkley/Darnold is Sam Bowie/Michael Jordan all over again. As bad as things are right now, I'd still trust the Giants over the Jets long term. It's gonna be hilarious when Herbert and Barkley are hoisting a Lombardi before Sammy and the Jets.
We drafted a HOF player  
KWALL2 : 10/12/2018 11:27 am : link
who makes plays nobody else makes and hes 21.

He's one of the best players in the league right now and they aren't even using him enough in the pass game (although he is on pace to break the NFL record for receptions by a RB ;).

Darnold and Rosen look really good too. But QBs are harder to evaluate even after a year or two or three. Yes these 2 look very good but that can change.

Barkley? He's a guaranteed elite player for many years. There isn't anything else to see. He has everything to be elite.

The QBs? We have to see a lot more and they have a lot of developing to go. You see guys look great early at QB and then suck for 5+ seasons.
How about we all enjoy an incredible talent..  
Sean : 10/12/2018 11:29 am : link
who has a great attitude & is the new leader of the team.
As I said in a different post...  
Dan in the Springs : 10/12/2018 2:25 pm : link
I don't know how anyone can argue against taking LT in '81. We didn't then and we're all happy that worked out.

Similar logic led us to picking SB, and the results on the field show he's the same kind of talent. Game-altering.

You absolutely have to trust the process and accept that we are in a multi-year rebuild where we collect the best players available to make a dominant team.

Hopefully we get our future QB next year. If not, we better not pass up any generational talent we get a chance to pick.
RE: Do you really  
V.I.G. : 10/12/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 14123258 mdthedream said:
Quote:
believe if Darnold was are QB without Barkley we would be winning games? I don't think so at all if fact he probably would be sitting on the bench and we would all be screaming for them to play him.

yes - I think darnold has this team at 3-3, 2-4. but who cares. let's move forward and hopefully find our QB for the next decade next year.
RE: RE: Do you really  
Bill L : 10/12/2018 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14124968 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14123258 mdthedream said:


Quote:


believe if Darnold was are QB without Barkley we would be winning games? I don't think so at all if fact he probably would be sitting on the bench and we would all be screaming for them to play him.


yes - I think darnold has this team at 3-3, 2-4. but who cares. let's move forward and hopefully find our QB for the next decade next year.


That's selling Darnold short. I think that we would be undefeated.

And stars would shoot out of our asses on the sideline. Cotton candy clouds would rain grape nehi down upon our heads.

With pure speculative fantasy, anything is possible and everything is equal.
RE: Barkley  
JOrthman : 10/12/2018 5:56 pm : link
In comment 14123649 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Is an exceptional talent. He is the best running back in the NFL right now. He makes plays that few can. That being said, we are witnessing first hand the limited impact that a running back has on an offense and a team in general in the modern NFL. He had a huge game last night, and the Giants come away with 13 points. Rarely do you see a QB have a big game and the team not move up and own the field scoring.

On the other side, we saw the Eagles with no names at running back and an extremely talented qb move the ball very well, and most importantly, score points.

Now, as many of you point out, if the Giants come away with Herbert and Barkley, I think we all have to be happy. The more I watch Herbert play, the more I think he transcends the Oregon qb stigma. He makes throws in tight windows that Oregon qbs before simply wouldn't.

This may sound awful, but I am not sure the Giants winning another game this year does much for the franchise beyond 2018. I believe Herbert will declare, so it could all work out in the end.


Imagine how bad last nights game would of looked without Barkley.
RE: We drafted a HOF player  
JOrthman : 10/12/2018 5:58 pm : link
In comment 14124116 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
who makes plays nobody else makes and hes 21.

He's one of the best players in the league right now and they aren't even using him enough in the pass game (although he is on pace to break the NFL record for receptions by a RB ;).

Darnold and Rosen look really good too. But QBs are harder to evaluate even after a year or two or three. Yes these 2 look very good but that can change.

Barkley? He's a guaranteed elite player for many years. There isn't anything else to see. He has everything to be elite.

The QBs? We have to see a lot more and they have a lot of developing to go. You see guys look great early at QB and then suck for 5+ seasons.


Spot on
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