No point in going into details that have been discussed ad nauseum but the defining moment for this franchise was when TC was let go and Reese kept. I don’t think I am saying anything new there but this season demonstrates the malaise that has set in or, as Eric called it, the loser mentality.
So moving forward, what do we do? I’ve been an Eli backer and supporter but i’m not stupid. Eli is shell shocked and may very well be done. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a 37 year old QB come back from the beating he had taken to be an effective player. Certainly not with the Giants. Question is do we play Lauletta to see what we might have.
For what it’s worth, here are some suggestions: 1) identify our core, who we want to move forward with and make everyone else available for trade...collect as many draft picks as possible and that includes trading 13 (although who would want that contract as well as the other selfish shit). 2) I would play Evan Brown at center...Greco has been awful, maybe move him to guard in place of Omameh. 3). Evaluate Shurmur...he’s a veteran coach who has previous HC experience. Personally, I have not been impressed and I think the leash should be very short with him. 4). Get rid of any player who continues this selfish, me first attitude...Apple and 13 are the most obvious examples but there are others.
That’s it...have at it but, in my mind, the most important thing is changing the culture of this team!
Thread after thread after thread here people are focused on the wrong things.
This offseason i would let go of Eli. If Eli and Vernon are gone that will open up a lot of cap space. Draft Justin Herbert in the draft and in free agency sign RT Ja'Wuan James and LB Markus Golden. Add a G/C on day two. Sign Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown as the veteran mentor for Herbert.
And if you get rid of Vernon, you eliminate the pass rush.
Getting rid of Vernon is fine with some of the pieces we can develop for a pass rush. Getting rid of Jenkins makes us a worse team.
And if you get rid of Vernon, you eliminate the pass rush.
Getting rid of Vernon is fine with some of the pieces we can develop for a pass rush. Getting rid of Jenkins makes us a worse team.
Does it really matter if we jettison those guys? The goal now should be to be as bad as possible. If anything, holding onto those guys, who aren’t part of whatever the fuck it is we’re building here, might screw up what needs to happen (losses, lots of them) with game ending INT’s or sacks resulting in unnecessary NYG wins.
Instead, most people were angry because Eli's legacy was tarnished so that Geno Smith could get a start.
But then the owners doubled down on that when they hired Gettlemen and Shurmur. While we're not 100% certain that they were told that Eli was 100% the guy, it's not too much of a stretch to think that way. Does that mean that's why we passed a QB at #2? That's just a guessing game.
At this point, I'm just really not invested in the team at all. I don't care if they sit Eli, if he continues to play, whatever. The league, the penalties, the losing, the offensive line, the drama... it all factors into my general disillusionment with this team and these games.
And if you get rid of Vernon, you eliminate the pass rush.
Getting rid of Vernon is fine with some of the pieces we can develop for a pass rush. Getting rid of Jenkins makes us a worse team.
I think the people suggesting this are of the mentality that if we are going to suck, we should get rid of everything now, and try to secure a top 3 pick.
I don’t think it’s remotely feasible. No team is going to take on those contracts.
That's when you stay in the cycle of sucking. This team needs talent - not a talent purge. flipping proven talent for draft picks is awesome for freeing up cash, but then you are left with rookies and having to supplement the team with exactly what you need to avoid - - higher priced FA's.
Thread after thread after thread here people are focused on the wrong things.
thank you
he made the right move and then panicked the second he got backlash, he listened to stupid pundits like michael kay and dave rothenburg and he freaked out...
they can not do that again this year..
and i can guarantee he told any gm candidate they had to keep eli
so they make up that Eli was going to be on this team come hell or highwater and everyone had to buy into that strategy.
And if you get rid of Vernon, you eliminate the pass rush.
Getting rid of Vernon is fine with some of the pieces we can develop for a pass rush. Getting rid of Jenkins makes us a worse team.
FMIC, getting rid of Vernon makes them a bad team the rest of this season. My plan is to add Markus Golden in free agency. The money will be nearly the same but Golden is only 25 and he had 12.5 sacks for Bettcher last season.
Because if there is one poster hopelessly devoted to John Mara and the clown show at Jints Central it’s FMiC.
Not the guy who uses Jints Central like he's paid for the copyright fees.
That's when you stay in the cycle of sucking. This team needs talent - not a talent purge. flipping proven talent for draft picks is awesome for freeing up cash, but then you are left with rookies and having to supplement the team with exactly what you need to avoid - - higher priced FA's.
They turned over 60% of the roster from the bottom. Now people want to get rid of all the best players simply for the sake of change.
And if you get rid of Vernon, you eliminate the pass rush.
Getting rid of Vernon is fine with some of the pieces we can develop for a pass rush. Getting rid of Jenkins makes us a worse team.
We're not getting rid of Jenkins. We just restructured his contract in a way which would make it cost prohibitive this year. Vernon though. If someone came calling I'd ship him. His cap hit next year makes it unlikely he'll be here. And we can get out for less than $4m.
Not the guy who uses Jints Central like he's paid for the copyright fees.
I always look forward to the back and forth about Jints Central that randomly pop up. One of life’s guilty pleasures.
Do you have any idea of what you are saying John Mara and Steve Tisch are thinking? Cut Eli? There is no doubt in my mind that they wanted to give Eli help and get another run out of him. The alternative is admitting that Eli is done and draft Darnold when Barkley was on the board. A tough decision on many levels given the issues with this O line.
Bottom line: what is done is done. Eli is here so is Barkley. This is our team. We may end up with the number 1 pick in the draft and get our future QB next year. Either way, watch this team with hope for the future or shut it off. Shurmur has to have some security to have taken this situation and I would guess Gettlemen has some security.
I do expect they thought this team would play much better. This team is just not ready to win yet.
Thread after thread after thread here people are focused on the wrong things.
BINGO!!!
Mara went all in for 2013 when lots of players were on the downside because he wanted to be the first team to play in a SB in its home stadium.
Mara pushed for McAdoo, who's offense went far away from Eli's strengths.
Mara didn't do a clean sweep of both Reese and TC and couldn't explain the rationale for keeping Reese despite all of the warning signs being there that the scouting was subpar.
These are just examples, on another thread I spoke about how the PR/Comms for the last few years out of E. Rutherford has been awful.
Golden missed 12 games last season but the two seasons before he played in 31 out of 32 games. Let's dismiss that though.
Giants' records in TC's last 3 seasons were 7-9, 6-10 and 6-10. Record in first season after he left was 11-5.
We're there.
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No point in going into details that have been discussed ad nauseum but the defining moment for this franchise was when TC was let go and Reese kept. I don’t think I am saying anything new there but this season demonstrates the malaise that has set in or, as Eric called it, the loser mentality.
Giants' records in TC's last 3 seasons were 7-9, 6-10 and 6-10. Record in first season after he left was 11-5.
Oh come ON. They spent $100M on defense, whereas Tom had one of the worst defensive rosters ever. Look what happened the following year: 3-13.
And if you get rid of Vernon, you eliminate the pass rush.
Getting rid of Vernon is fine with some of the pieces we can develop for a pass rush. Getting rid of Jenkins makes us a worse team.
In the short term getting rid of these guys would definitely make the team worse, but the giants need to have a long term view here. This team is further away from winning than probably any team in the league right now. Don't make any short term decisions.
I think Gettleman is the right hire and I have high confidence in his ability to get the job done. There were a couple of free agency deals that were dubious but the draft was great and overall I think DG, with his focus on the trenches, is exactly what this team needs.
I think it was reasonable to think we could rebuild on the fly and that an O with Beckham, Engram, Shep and Saquon could contend with a rebuilt OL as long as that unit was just 'below average'. Unfortunately it is horrendous and Eli's clock is totally screwed. Still...what we would have done differently? I'm not convinced that you draft Darnold in a re-do. It's still a really tough call that splits this board.
Many in the media said Reese needed to go when Coughlin was gone, too.
It's not hindsight at all. John Mara made a horrible mistake keeping Reese as long as he did and a lot of people knew that long before Mara did.
Although I have zero confidence in the hire he made at GM. Brought one of his buddies and a guy he was familiar with back.
Gettleman seems to think this is still the 1980's. That he thinks Jonathan Stewart hasn't lost a step at all is enough to scare the hell out of any Giants fan.
Peter king said that DG was basically a dinosaur when it came to evaluating and drafting in today's NFL. If that is the case we're in for a long while of suck.
I think Gettleman is the right hire and I have high confidence in his ability to get the job done. There were a couple of free agency deals that were dubious but the draft was great and overall I think DG, with his focus on the trenches, is exactly what this team needs.
I think it was reasonable to think we could rebuild on the fly and that an O with Beckham, Engram, Shep and Saquon could contend with a rebuilt OL as long as that unit was just 'below average'. Unfortunately it is horrendous and Eli's clock is totally screwed. Still...what we would have done differently? I'm not convinced that you draft Darnold in a re-do. It's still a really tough call that splits this board.
I agree that DG is a good guy to have here. There is one personnel move I wish he did a little differently: I would have kept DJ Fluker and not have signed Omameh. Fluker at least can move people in the run game and is a " hog Molly ". Omameh looks overmatched on most plays and is maybe a little worse than John Jerry.
I did say we needed to meme an OBJ trade into reality in the summer.
Why would you trade arguably your best defender and leader of the defense who always gives his all and doesn't complain about anything????? That just dumb
Many in the media said Reese needed to go when Coughlin was gone, too.
It's not hindsight at all. John Mara made a horrible mistake keeping Reese as long as he did and a lot of people knew that long before Mara did.
Although I have zero confidence in the hire he made at GM. Brought one of his buddies and a guy he was familiar with back.
Gettleman seems to think this is still the 1980's. That he thinks Jonathan Stewart hasn't lost a step at all is enough to scare the hell out of any Giants fan.
Peter king said that DG was basically a dinosaur when it came to evaluating and drafting in today's NFL. If that is the case we're in for a long while of suck.
I don't get the last part. Who exactly from this year's draft class do you think makes us suck?
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A contender would be willing to give up a 2nd or possibly a conditional 1st for him plus they would be acquiring the right to franchise him at the end of the season.
Why would you trade arguably your best defender and leader of the defense who always gives his all and doesn't complain about anything????? That just dumb
Will you think it's dumb when if he walks in free agency? First I would offer an extension and if they couldn't come to terms then they should look to trade him.
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to pick up Golden, who missed last season and the start of this season with injuries. Sounds like a plan.
Golden missed 12 games last season but the two seasons before he played in 31 out of 32 games. Let's dismiss that though.
Vernon missed 4 games last season, but before that he started 48 of 48 games over 3 years, and 14 games in 2013. Let's dismiss that though
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