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Eli vs. the rush

Archer : 10/12/2018 11:33 am
First I am an Eli fan and supporter, but, like all great players his time has come.

It is possible that Eli could be a productive QB if he had an exceptional offensive line, but, he does not and it will take years to rebuild this line.

Eli can no longer function effectively behind a the Giants line. It was interesting to compare Wentz's productivity vs. the rush with Eli.

Wentz was hit and pressured by the Giants defense (8)times in the first quarter. On all of those plays he avoided negative yardage. He was lucky as some of his throws were tipped, but , none the less he did not take a sack. This enabled the Eagles to continually have manageable third down plays.

In comparison, Eli under duress was the exact opposite. In plays under pressure, he took a sack and fumbled, threw an interception, and had numerous negative yardage plays. The result was 3rd and long and (8) times in a row the Giants could not make a third down conversion.

The Giants need a QB that can move in the pocket, and avoid the rush. This is the NFL and with the exception of Brady, this has become a mobile QB league.

Eli used to be able compensate for his lack of mobility by sliding in the pocket and throwing on time. Eli no longer moves well in the pocket and he does not anticipate his throws. He always appears rushed even when there is none. He checks down on the vast majority of his throws.

The final straw that has made Eli less effective is that he has lost significant arm strength. He is constantly under throwing his receivers and he never attempts his staple throws such as a back shoulder.

The offense has become dink and dunk and Eli is now chuck and duck.


This just in  
gmenatlarge : 10/12/2018 11:36 am : link
film at eleven
I don’t think he has lost significant arm strength  
BBelle21 : 10/12/2018 11:37 am : link
He’s dealing with the Oline and as wonderful as Saquon is, he’s missing key blocks. But who could blame him for it, SB is a rookie and an amazing rookie at that. But all these factors add up. Eli is sinking underneath it all.
It’s like having Big Bird in the pocket  
Vanzetti : 10/12/2018 11:45 am : link
And that is probably unfair to Big Bird
The tipped passes were 100% luck...  
JCin332 : 10/12/2018 11:46 am : link
Eli had one and it was picked...

The Giants are snakebit right now...
Wentz was also able to turn his mobility into positive yards  
Blue21 : 10/12/2018 11:49 am : link
and first downs and extend a drive when under pressure. Also his mobility makes defenses have to respect and try to contain. Something the giants don't have. That's why when Shurmur mentions "at some point a QB has to use his legs to extend a drive" I found it curious he was so positive about Eli. I know some are going to say that it means just moving in the pocket but I really don't think that was what he was alluding to.
RE: The tipped passes were 100% luck...  
Les in TO : 10/12/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 14124204 JCin332 said:
Quote:
Eli had one and it was picked...

The Giants are snakebit right now...
no. They are a bad team that lost by three touchdowns. At home. In a must win game. That is not snakebit. They suck.
RE: The tipped passes were 100% luck...  
Giant Fan Dan : 10/12/2018 11:52 am : link
In comment 14124204 JCin332 said:
Quote:
Eli had one and it was picked...

The Giants are snakebit right now...


Exactly this. Not to mention Wentz's receivers fighting back for the ball, fighting to get open when he was under duress.. Giants players run their play then stand around with their thumbs up their ass when things break down. Eli's got zero help on this team
RE: Wentz was also able to turn his mobility into positive yards  
bw in dc : 10/12/2018 11:55 am : link
In comment 14124230 Blue21 said:
Quote:
and first downs and extend a drive when under pressure. Also his mobility makes defenses have to respect and try to contain. Something the giants don't have. That's why when Shurmur mentions "at some point a QB has to use his legs to extend a drive" I found it curious he was so positive about Eli. I know some are going to say that it means just moving in the pocket but I really don't think that was what he was alluding to.


Mostly true on all counts. And, and this is important, Wentz trusts his pocket. When he doesn't get mobile, he hangs and hangs and hangs in that pocket with some real poise and courage. He's very impressive.
Even when there is little to no rush,  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/12/2018 11:57 am : link
he has issues. David Carr syndrome.
The problem is  
Doomster : 10/12/2018 11:59 am : link
The tipped passes were 100% luck...
JCin332 : 11:46 am : link : reply
Eli had one and it was picked...

The TE was covered and it never should have been thrown to him...
When are these conversations about Eli going to end  
joe48 : 10/12/2018 12:05 pm : link
The guy is done. Eli plays like he knows he is done. This discussion has been beaten to death. Time to move on!!
RE: Wentz was also able to turn his mobility into positive yards  
Les in TO : 10/12/2018 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14124230 Blue21 said:
Quote:
and first downs and extend a drive when under pressure. Also his mobility makes defenses have to respect and try to contain. Something the giants don't have. That's why when Shurmur mentions "at some point a QB has to use his legs to extend a drive" I found it curious he was so positive about Eli. I know some are going to say that it means just moving in the pocket but I really don't think that was what he was alluding to.
Shurmur earlier this week also praised Wentz for his ability to make plays “off schedule” ie if someone misses a block or runs the wrong route or receivers are all covered
Just watch the first TD by Philly last night.  
DonQuixote : 10/12/2018 12:15 pm : link
Absolutely no way Eli makes that play.
Chunk  
BCD : 10/12/2018 12:21 pm : link
and Duck....int
RE: The problem is  
HomerJones45 : 10/12/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14124279 Doomster said:
Quote:
The tipped passes were 100% luck...
JCin332 : 11:46 am : link : reply
Eli had one and it was picked...

The TE was covered and it never should have been thrown to him...
Not if the TE did what he was supposed to do which was stop and turn around. He kept going.
Here is a quote from an article on NFL.com  
chuckydee9 : 10/12/2018 12:50 pm : link
Quote:
Even when he has time, he either checks down too quickly, not allowing downfield routes to develop, or he tosses a wayward ball. He completed 3 of 15 attempts for 54 yards on dropbacks in which he had 2.51 seconds or more to pass, per Next Gen Stats. Multiple times Thursday night, Manning sailed an uncatchable pass down the sideline.


There is no way we can win if our QB is this bad when he has time.. too many dink and dunk throws.. on 3rd and 14 I saw Wentz throw for first down.. we never do that.. OBJ has to make a ridiculous catch and then make even more ridiculous play to break a tackle to get 5 yards.. no wonder he is pissed off.
Eli Manning remains confident - ( New Window )
Eli always says positive things after a loss. What's he gonna say?  
Blue21 : 10/12/2018 12:56 pm : link
I suck?
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