I think back from where Eli was at his peak in 2011, and that o-line was not exactly stellar to where he is now, and it's really hard to pinpoint where he really regressed. Or if it's just been a long, slow, undiscernable slope into oblivion. He put up good stats in 2014-2015, then his performance has collapsed in '16, '17 and now '18. I think he was still pretty solid in '12, and '13 we know was a complete sh*tshow. So where did it occur? Was there a season you can point to where you say, you know what, his arm isn't the same, or he's mentally not the same.
My gut feeling is that it's the system. There is no option routes anymore for Eli - The option route in Coughlin's offense took advantage of Eli's tremendous decision-making skills. He now knows exactly where the receivers going to be, and is forced to take the safe decision because he already knows that the defense has accounted for all the other routes. In the option route system, it didn't matter what the defense threw at you, he could pick it because the receiver was reading the defense with him, and would adjust based on what was available.
I dont think he was nearly as good in 2014&15 as others.
Eli took the snap and the DT came through and drilled him almost instantaneously causing the back of Eli's head to smack into the floor. Now, Eli bounced up like one of those kid toy weeble wobbles like he always does and continued to play. Thing is, I do not think Eli has ever been the same since that hit.
Call me crazy, but that is my story. This was early in 2016.
If the criticism was more like this there wouldn't be the wasted bandwidth on manning threads. Well thought out, reasonable, using logic while being respectful.
The problem isn't so much that Eli has lost his mojo, but that his lack of mobility, the OL's struggles, and WRs who can't get separation have created a perfect storm that has made him look helpless.
Also, let's not forget that the offense was constructed with a play list that included both Engram and Ellison on the field at the same time for a decent chunk of plays. On a short week they find themselves with not just one, but neither of them. So an offense that was built to take advantage of the TE position finds itself with nothing but an undrafted rookie manning the position on a short week.
The stats since
Eli since Sandy - ( New Window )
2 shoulder injuries in '12.
'13 we blow a chunk of the team up, lose 2 OL starters before the season and give Beatty starter $ after which he checked out and had a horrific season. Nicks is toast. Wilson's career ends. Cruz seemed to put on a little too much muscle during his holdout and lost some of that quickness (amongst other things). Just a bomb of a season.
Obviously a little respite in '14-15 with OBJ and the McAdoo/Coughlin offense giving him some additional options to mitigate the pressure, but left on his own, McAdoo more or less gave up on a lot of the downfield throwing and had a completely underdeveloped developed running game.
TC's offense was a perfect fit for Manning, unfortunately vertical passing systems have to protect the qb.
This.
Week 3 2016
2 shoulder injuries in '12.
'13 we blow a chunk of the team up, lose 2 OL starters before the season and give Beatty starter $ after which he checked out and had a horrific season. Nicks is toast. Wilson's career ends. Cruz seemed to put on a little too much muscle during his holdout and lost some of that quickness (amongst other things). Just a bomb of a season.
Obviously a little respite in '14-15 with OBJ and the McAdoo/Coughlin offense giving him some additional options to mitigate the pressure, but left on his own, McAdoo more or less gave up on a lot of the downfield throwing and had a completely underdeveloped developed running game.
Check out his SB stats the next game and get back to us............30 completions.
Yep. I mean, those lines were that great, but we somehow were still whipping it down the field............
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Hasnt been the same since, IMO.
This.
Week 3 2016
Not going to disagree with that...............
The change in the CBA happened to coincide with us needing to rebuild the OL (which was already a season or two late). It also went along with a slew of WR injuries, which made it harder to sub in replacements. The option route offense was difficult for some of these guys to pick up, and the now limited amount of time practicing in pads meant less experience, especially for guys who weren't getting reps. When someone went down, plugging someone else in was harder.
Now add the fact that college offenses are increasingly going to the spread and it's harder to find OL players with experience in the pro system, which coupled with the limited practice time from the CBA and an older, slightly less mobile Manning (who was never very mobile to begin with, but he could move in the pocket), and you have the perfect storm.
To this day, I believe that and the abnormally high level of injuries cost the coaching staff their jobs and made Manning somewhat obsolete in the current NFL.
It doesn't happen all at once. You get older, you lose a little here, lose a little there. He's 37. That's a long career. Brady and Brees are exceptions. Very few guys maintain close to the same level into their late 30s
****Stop with the arm strength thing. I am fat and 50 and still have a cannon. That is not how QBs decline, you sound foolish when you say he still has a good arm as a defense that he hasn't lost anything.****
If you have seen The Replacements, when the character Shane played K Reeves talks about quicksand, that describes Eli at the end of his career. It felt like every time the Giants were in any kind of big moment, the Giants need a drive to stay in or win the game...He looked like he was in quicksand. The only time I have seen him banish the feeling is the 4th Quarter against Carolina. His 3rd down numbers since 2015 are AWFUL.
It doesn't happen all at once. You get older, you lose a little here, lose a little there. He's 37. That's a long career. Brady and Brees are exceptions. Very few guys maintain close to the same level into their late 30s
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Hasnt been the same since, IMO.
This.
Week 3 2016
Theres no answer here. Theres no trick. It's just the passage of time.
****Stop with the arm strength thing. I am fat and 50 and still have a cannon. That is not how QBs decline, you sound foolish when you say he still has a good arm as a defense that he hasn't lost anything.****
If you have seen The Replacements, when the character Shane played K Reeves talks about quicksand, that describes Eli at the end of his career. It felt like every time the Giants were in any kind of big moment, the Giants need a drive to stay in or win the game...He looked like he was in quicksand. The only time I have seen him banish the feeling is the 4th Quarter against Carolina. His 3rd down numbers since 2015 are AWFUL.
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Ever since MCDipshit messed with his drop back and mechanics and installed a WC offense he stopped playing instinctively. You cannot be a fraction of second late in today's NFL. Last year he looked like complete toast to me(nothing to do with arm strength.)
****Stop with the arm strength thing. I am fat and 50 and still have a cannon. That is not how QBs decline, you sound foolish when you say he still has a good arm as a defense that he hasn't lost anything.****
If you have seen The Replacements, when the character Shane played K Reeves talks about quicksand, that describes Eli at the end of his career. It felt like every time the Giants were in any kind of big moment, the Giants need a drive to stay in or win the game...He looked like he was in quicksand. The only time I have seen him banish the feeling is the 4th Quarter against Carolina. His 3rd down numbers since 2015 are AWFUL.
The offense was very solid in 14 and 15.
The problem isn't so much that Eli has lost his mojo, but that his lack of mobility, the OL's struggles, and WRs who can't get separation have created a perfect storm that has made him look helpless.
Also, let's not forget that the offense was constructed with a play list that included both Engram and Ellison on the field at the same time for a decent chunk of plays. On a short week they find themselves with not just one, but neither of them. So an offense that was built to take advantage of the TE position finds itself with nothing but an undrafted rookie manning the position on a short week.
Can we stop.. his playoff game was the only game he showed up in that year.. Our D and OBJ carried the team to 11 wins.. you can't just skip the first 16 games then say look I did my job and the guys who played the first 16 get the blame.. 2016 was a bad season for Eli..
2014 and 2015 the defense was just pathetic.
I'll admit I was pissed off about the benching for Geno Smith but the failure to get the ball into the endzone at the end of the game in the home game against Philly made me kind of OK to move on from him because the magic was gone. That was the one thing that could've made the 2017 season 1% tolerable but nope, they couldn't even do that.
I do like the Barkley pick and think its fitting to get a QB next draft.
Theres no answer here. Theres no trick. It's just the passage of time.
I'd rather not think about the hair I've lost, thanks
In 2007 he played really well and also had a good running game and defense. In 2011 he played really well and also had 3 players in the top 50 of YAC for the season along with a defense that turned it on once the playoffs started. In seasons that the team around him hasn't been as good, he hasn't looked as good. This is clearly one of those years.
I think it's hard to look at this team and flat out say that Eli is considerably worse than he has been in the past. Considering all of the other problems that the team has it's hard to imagine any QB performing well.
Though there has been some decline. It seems like teams, especially in the division, have picked up on many of Eli's tendencies. It's like they know where Eli is going to throw it, if he has audibled into a run, or what the O-line protection scheme is going to be. I also believe that with all of the flack that Eli has taken about his high interception rates early in his career that he is a bit gun shy about trying the more difficult throws.
I do agree that in the current state with Eli's skill set and salary he doesn't fit with this team going forward. That being said though, I don't think there is a point where Eli "got bad". I think it's just a situation where Eli doesn't quite fit anymore.
For the life of me, I can't understand why the car rides like shit. I even traded out the shopping cart wheels with new shopping cart wheels, same result!
Trying to figure out exactly when my Ferrari became a piece of shit.
If I had to say a specific "event" then I would concur with above regarding that hit he took in the Redskin game. From that point on, his mojo was brought down a few notches for sure. I was relating the loss of Vereen (in that same game) as a safety valve/3rd down extender as one of the bigger reasons why the offense started to fail after that but I really think Eli's drop was the bigger reason.
He was absolutely looking more at the rush, he stopped sliding and moving around in the pocket, his long throws were far more inaccurate (both long and short). He also became much more impatient/conservative after a quick look downfield and relegated too often to throwing ball into ground or short and just punt it away.
Especially since the defense in 2016 started playing so well so he became even more conservative. I think it got to the point that he didn't get it back. He somewhat lost the idea that it was his job to score points to win the game...
If I had to say a specific "event" then I would concur with above regarding that hit he took in the Redskin game. From that point on, his mojo was brought down a few notches for sure. I was relating the loss of Vereen (in that same game) as a safety valve/3rd down extender as one of the bigger reasons why the offense started to fail after that but I really think Eli's drop was the bigger reason.
He was absolutely looking more at the rush, he stopped sliding and moving around in the pocket, his long throws were far more inaccurate (both long and short). He also became much more impatient/conservative after a quick look downfield and relegated too often to throwing ball into ground or short and just punt it away.
Especially since the defense in 2016 started playing so well so he became even more conservative. I think it got to the point that he didn't get it back. He somewhat lost the idea that it was his job to score points to win the game...
I think that is fair Googs. Physically I never felt Eli had lost much if at all. Now mentally is where I was unsure if could return to form.
2014 and 2015 the defense was just pathetic.
I'll admit I was pissed off about the benching for Geno Smith but the failure to get the ball into the endzone at the end of the game in the home game against Philly made me kind of OK to move on from him because the magic was gone. That was the one thing that could've made the 2017 season 1% tolerable but nope, they couldn't even do that.
I do like the Barkley pick and think its fitting to get a QB next draft.
I agree with the Baker hit, prior to that he would often hold the ball too long, after that...well you have what you have now!
Knew then something amiss in him
Eli took the snap and the DT came through and drilled him almost instantaneously causing the back of Eli's head to smack into the floor. Now, Eli bounced up like one of those kid toy weeble wobbles like he always does and continued to play. Thing is, I do not think Eli has ever been the same since that hit.
Call me crazy, but that is my story. This was early in 2016.
That was a vicious hit. Giants were also 2-0 and on their way to a win, but lost the game.
Yup. Make no mistake this all started in 2013. Things were masked and sort of covered up for a few years but its back for good now.