Daily, there is a group of posters who state as fact that Mara mandated that Eli stay, the team be built around him and that the new GM and coach be on board with that strategy.
I have a couple questions for these conspiracy theorists:
1) Why would Gettleman, a man who could retire, take a job as a puppet, especially since it contradicts his entire personality as well as his tenure in Carolina
2) Why would Shurmur, a failed coach in Cleveland, sign up to take a job that would effectively end his dreams of ever being a successful NFL coach, since two-time failures don't get other chances.
Basically, to believe that Mara is calling the shots and it was a mandate to keep Eli, two men are banking their career and reputation on something they don't control. Why would they do that?
bw has said numerous times that Gettleman accepted the terms because he needed a job. And while there isn't a shred of evidence of that, it still doesn't explain Shurmur. In fact, Shurmur doesn't check any of the boxes the conspirators say:
- No ties to the team
- Not hand picked by Mara
basically, because we picked Barkley and not a QB is the only thing they can tangibly point to, and that pick is looking like we indeed got the guy who was the best player in the draft and one that Gettleman saw as a generational talent
I'd really like to hear how the fuck this ridiculous premise gets repeated here daily.
In other words, this theory is based on irrational thought. I wish others wouldn't post it, or if they did, at least include the disclaimer that it is their own (irrational) opinion.
Football lifers have a hard time leaving football. He could have saw this as an "I can fix it if they want me to keep Eli" situation.
What a clusterf*ck.
I’m fine with sucking hard for 2 years and at the end of it coming away with SB and a top QB along with cleared cap room to fortify the OL.
Everyone keep saying we “wasted” a year which also doesn’t fully make sense. Getting a generational talent on the roster isn’t a waste, and having that in place can expedite how quickly Eli’s replacement can come into his own.
There’s so many ways this can go but unless ya perfectly written in stone for the dolts to read, they label it a failure.
But its all speculation
whether it was mandated, suggested or just foolhardy bravado on the part of both men, it was seemingly a terrible decision to think we were going to have any success with this mixture of OLine and Eli.
so another year wasted, no matter who mandated it or not.
2) money and power
But its all speculation
Agreed. We'll never know for sure unless one of them comes out and says it, but I think it's reasonable to assume that it wasn't so much a 'mandate' as Mara having a thought for the way forward, and Gettleman agreeing with it. I wouldn't doubt that there was no 'settling' on DG's part, that he just independently figured that moving forward with Eli was the way to go.
Shurmur - I asked the same question in another thread - would love to know whether he felt any pressure to take the job because he thought the opportunity might not arise again, or whether he genuinely felt he was landing in a spot where he could be successful.
#2 because a head coaching gig is better remuneration and prestige than a coordinator and there was no guarantee any other team would have hired Shurmur as head coach
Many, including myself, believe that keeping Eli was a prerequisite in the hiring process as far as ownership was concerned. And they hired two people who they believe had agreement and conviction on that point.
You can try to paint that as an absurd opinion if it’s helpful during this difficult time.
And that one move, which would have us as a worse team this year and beyond (by not having Barkley), would have some of those idiots thinking we have a plan and not making moves just to placate Eli.
The idea a team is placating one player is a completely illogical train of thought.
wasn't there other RB's available later in the draft (Sony Michel)? Is Gallman terrible or just not as good as SB?
It basically isn't helpful, but it sure as fuck is an absurd opinion.
That's something far different from the statements made that Eli @QB was a requirement for the job.
But its all speculation
This, but Mara also over reacted to the fan over reaction to Eli’s benching. Fans were upset because Ei was benched for Geno. If he was benched for Webb, I don’t think it would have been a huge up roar.
For what it’s worth, I think Webb was going to get a look and Mac just didn’t want him to be thrown to the wolves and he needed to get some reps as number 2. He was never going to go straight from Scout team to #1.
So we got the big backlash from the fans and Mara took it as fans still want Eli. The stadium was being taken over by away fans. He needed to get Butts in the seats.
we'd at least be building toward something with the most important position nailed down.
as opposed to what we have currently in place.
You, FMiC, are the one suggesting I have claimed to have absolute knowledge.
For the umpteeth time, it all starts with Mara bringing in Accorsi - and how can anyone not find that beyond absurd and laughable - to lead the "big" search. The guy who drafted Eli for crissakes.
In what seems like minutes, Accorsi recommends fellow AARP member Gettleman for the job. A guy who was at Jints Central when Eli was drafted and a guy recently fired. A card carrying member...
So right there - two guys with specific, direct ties to Eli. And, and...the owner fresh off a public flogging for the Eli fiasco.
Without hesitation, Mara makes the hire.
Shurmur? Hot coordinator who has just demonstrated taking a journeyman QB - Keenum - to one game shy of the NFC Championship game. Bingo. Perfect guy to be the PM for Eli's reclamation...
I mean, these are fairly straightforward pieces of the puzzle that certainly add up to - if not a mandate - but everyone all in on Eli.
2) money and power
If the owner is mandating what you do, exactly what power do you have?
Why did they take the jobs knowing the Mara Bros were going to call the shots? That's really a question? Because no other team would ever offer them these jobs.
Shurmur is now 11-28 as a head coach. Maybe someone other team would have given him a shot at some point but it's unlikely. He's certainly never going to get another NFL head coaching job after this one which could end after next season.
And you're seriously asking about the 67 year old GM who doesn't believe in analytics? The guy who already worked for the Mara's and is in their tiny circle of trust? I'm surprised the Giants were able to out bid all the other NFL teams that were beating down his door to hire him.
And let me add this- I love watching Barkley play and I’m thrilled we have him.
The Giants didn't like any of the available Qb's enough to justify passing on a talent like Barkley.
The only conspiracy theory that might have merit is that the Giants really didn't expect Eli to take them back to the playoffs this season with a roster that had to be completely remade. They honestly couldn't have expected to fix the offensive line in one offseason. Eli remaining made the most sense. Now they will be is position to get their next QB to pair with a stud RB. They will also get another offseason to improve the offensive line.
wasn't there other RB's available later in the draft (Sony Michel)? Is Gallman terrible or just not as good as SB?
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You can try to paint that as an absurd opinion if it’s helpful during this difficult time.
It basically isn't helpful, but it sure as fuck is an absurd opinion.
Really? It’s absurd to say “I get the feeling that ownership made up their mind that Eli was staying as the starter for at least another year, and ran the hiring process accordingly.”?? That’s absurd?? Callout material? Certainly not to say that reasonable minds can’t disagree on the point.
Get a grip. You do a yeoman’s job calling out some of the real lunacy around here. But this is trash.
You, FMiC, are the one suggesting I have claimed to have absolute knowledge.
For the umpteeth time, it all starts with Mara bringing in Accorsi - and how can anyone not find that beyond absurd and laughable - to lead the "big" search. The guy who drafted Eli for crissakes.
In what seems like minutes, Accorsi recommends fellow AARP member Gettleman for the job. A guy who was at Jints Central when Eli was drafted and a guy recently fired. A card carrying member...
So right there - two guys with specific, direct ties to Eli. And, and...the owner fresh off a public flogging for the Eli fiasco.
Without hesitation, Mara makes the hire.
Shurmur? Hot coordinator who has just demonstrated taking a journeyman QB - Keenum - to one game shy of the NFC Championship game. Bingo. Perfect guy to be the PM for Eli's reclamation...
I mean, these are fairly straightforward pieces of the puzzle that certainly add up to - if not a mandate - but everyone all in on Eli.
Was it also laughable when the Bears and Lions brought Accorsi in to assist with their GM searches in recent years?
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But going in with a plan that included Eli probably helped him/them land the job.
But its all speculation
Agreed. We'll never know for sure unless one of them comes out and says it, but I think it's reasonable to assume that it wasn't so much a 'mandate' as Mara having a thought for the way forward, and Gettleman agreeing with it. I wouldn't doubt that there was no 'settling' on DG's part, that he just independently figured that moving forward with Eli was the way to go.
Shurmur - I asked the same question in another thread - would love to know whether he felt any pressure to take the job because he thought the opportunity might not arise again, or whether he genuinely felt he was landing in a spot where he could be successful.
I don't think any coach turns down a head coaching job unless they have another head coaching job lined up. Maybe there are a couple exceptions to that rule but they are few.
And just about every new head coach is going to be faced with challenges. If there were no challenges there would be no vacancy.
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In comment 14125207 ron mexico said:
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But going in with a plan that included Eli probably helped him/them land the job.
But its all speculation
Agreed. We'll never know for sure unless one of them comes out and says it, but I think it's reasonable to assume that it wasn't so much a 'mandate' as Mara having a thought for the way forward, and Gettleman agreeing with it. I wouldn't doubt that there was no 'settling' on DG's part, that he just independently figured that moving forward with Eli was the way to go.
Shurmur - I asked the same question in another thread - would love to know whether he felt any pressure to take the job because he thought the opportunity might not arise again, or whether he genuinely felt he was landing in a spot where he could be successful.
I don't think any coach turns down a head coaching job unless they have another head coaching job lined up. Maybe there are a couple exceptions to that rule but they are few.
And just about every new head coach is going to be faced with challenges. If there were no challenges there would be no vacancy.
What about the Patriots OC?
Sean : 4:16 pm : link : reply
& they are 1-5. That’s the bottom line.
And let me add this- I love watching Barkley play and I’m thrilled we have him.
If the Giants felt Barkley was the best player, what moves could they actually make that wouldn't have one believe they weren't committed to winning? They turned the roster over 60%, including half the starters. They got rid of players who had terrible attitudes.
They got rid of JPP and DRC moves that contradict that they committed to winning. They took dead money this year so they can be better positioned next year, and they have Ogletree and Solder now, with the thought they will be here several years.
What are the win now moves that everyone is latching onto?
Basically it is the same move that fuels the horseshit about Mara dictating things - Eli is the QB and we didn't draft one at #2.
That's really what all of this boils down to, isn't it?
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1) money and power
2) money and power
If the owner is mandating what you do, exactly what power do you have?
Seriously? Running day to day operations of a football team vs. sitting at home watching Matlock reruns?
With that said, I don't believe the theory at all.
I just found it odd that someone starting a call out thread questioning why someone else was so sure about something was so sure we'd be "Terrible" at RB if we had drafted a QB #1.
Was it also laughable when the Bears and Lions brought Accorsi in to assist with their GM searches in recent years?
Fair question. At least those organizations were going outside of their walls to get a fresh opinion.
This was classic Mara. Going back, head first, into his comfort zone with a guy who was baptized with the "Giants Way"...
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But going in with a plan that included Eli probably helped him/them land the job.
But its all speculation
This, but Mara also over reacted to the fan over reaction to Eli’s benching. Fans were upset because Ei was benched for Geno. If he was benched for Webb, I don’t think it would have been a huge up roar.
For what it’s worth, I think Webb was going to get a look and Mac just didn’t want him to be thrown to the wolves and he needed to get some reps as number 2. He was never going to go straight from Scout team to #1.
So we got the big backlash from the fans and Mara took it as fans still want Eli. The stadium was being taken over by away fans. He needed to get Butts in the seats.
I agree 100% with this, (particularly the Webb going from scout team to #1 bit but really don't feel like rehashing benchgate)
I think we all need to write Mara letters saying it ok to move on from Eli.
I like John but that 180 was not his best moment.
-Signing Solder
-Trading for Ogletree
-Extending Beckham
How could anyone not see that the Giants were retooling? How can anyone sell that 1-5 is acceptable bc of the roster turnover? That’s bullshit. The expectation was to make the playoffs this year.
Seriously? Running day to day operations of a football team vs. sitting at home watching Matlock reruns?
That is very funny because that's exactly what you can picture Gettleman doing. And probably with a footlong Italian from Subway and two Diet Cokes.
Well done.
I wish we could wave a wand and have a great OL and I bet Eli would still stink. And with another wand bring in an elite QB and see how this team would thrive
The D knows that they cannot give up 10 points because Mr 3 and out will shit the bed besides spotting the opponent points. By the 4th quarter they are depressed and done
I wish we could wave a wand and have a great OL and I bet Eli would still stink. And with another wand bring in an elite QB and see how this team would thrive
The D knows that they cannot give up 10 points because Mr 3 and out will shit the bed besides spotting the opponent points. By the 4th quarter they are depressed and done
Yep. "Plenty of gas left in the tank." "HOG MOLLIES." "Ready to be competitive." Etc.
-Signing Solder
-Trading for Ogletree
-Extending Beckham
How could anyone not see that the Giants were retooling? How can anyone sell that 1-5 is acceptable bc of the roster turnover? That’s bullshit. The expectation was to make the playoffs this year.
You don't sign 30 year old LTs expecting them to only be here short term. People are still pissed that we didn't sign a 36 year old LT last year - so expecting Solder to be here for the full contract and possibly beyond isn't that far fetched.
Ogletree is a young LB as well, just got his second contract. Again, if he plays well you would expect him to be here long term.
OBJ - again, you expect him to only be here a year or two? He's in the Giants long term plans.
None of those move scream win-now only. They scream a team trying to get better now and still be good in 3 years.
It does not matter whether we were all wrong because Eli is shot or because he does not have the pieces around him. The bottom-line is Eli cannot succeed with this current team and in this current environment. If he is still a quality or serviceable QB then let him move to a team that can protect him. All this is doing is destroying the team from within and distancing the fan base from the team.
As far as why - Dave was 66 and unlikely to get another GM job much less a perfect fit like his old hunting ground.
we'd at least be building toward something with the most important position nailed down.
as opposed to what we have currently in place.
maybe we're going in a direction similar to Dallas. Get a generational RB, build the Offensive line (still a big work in progress) then get a QB who will have Talent at the WR, TE and slot positions and a great RB with a good O-Line, it would make it easier for a young QB to step in.
Just my thoughts