If this team has a plan, I have no idea what the hell it is...
Hard decisions had to be made, to right this ship....I think DG got this job by telling ownership what it wanted to hear, and not what it needed to hear....
You take Barkley, but you have no OL.....
If you take a QB with the first pick next year, you still have no OL....
We used a first round pick on a TE, who has not shown it was warranted....Not DG's fault.....but it is part of the mindset followed by ownership in building the roof first....Ellison? Simonson? Good grief....
SS is no Steve Smith....he does not run precise routes like Smith did.....and he is not a burner that gets separation....he can play slot, but not wideout.....in the red zone he is almost useless...
Our third WR, whoever it is, gets open more because the defense doesn't pay much attention to him.....this position is treated more as an afterthought, apparently....
OBj was a huge gamble.....you signed him, before even knowing if he was 100%....OK, that gamble worked....but now you don't have a system in place that can consistently get him the ball....not this year, probably not next, or even the next....is that a good allocation of resources? What good is that fancy car you bought, if you have no gasoline?
If you are rebuilding the OL, you better hope that Hernandez becomes one of the blocks.....Solder at his age is just a stop gap you wasted 22M of cap on this year.....where are the other three magically going to come from is only in DG's dreams....and by the time you get them, Solder will be gone...so the process continues....
You have no pass rushers outside of OV, who can't stay on the field at 100%....do you want to spend 19.5M of your cap on a part time player?
Snacks is another year older.....Tomlinson is no Snacks....After Snacks, OV, and Tomlinson what do you really have?
Ogletree is solid, nothing more....but that puts him light years over the other LB'ers we have....and because of that, TE's run free in the black hole of our defense....
Collins? A complete mystery to me....he makes plays....but he also misses big ones....his coverage skills are not that great....how in the world he misses tackles is beyond me....do you sell the farm to keep a guy who is so up and down?
Our free safety position is a joke....
Jenkins reminds me of a young DRC....when he is in the game, he can shut down the other teams best WR.....but sometimes, it's like the concentration is not there.....and as far as tackling goes, too many times, discretion is the better part of valor.....
Apple is a head case.....his play is erratic.....his idea of coverage is to blanket the receiver, so the qb does not throw the ball in his direction.....but if you run into a wr/qb combo, that throws back shoulder passes or passes before the wr breaks, he is ineffective, because he never looks for the ball...he is not a ballhawk at all, and does not create turnovers....and many times, does not like to stick his nose into the action around him("Oh, that's not my guy").....
One of the biggest problems on this team, in addition to a lack of starters, is no depth at all from the bottom of your roster.....once a starter goes down, there is no replacement that is effective....
So this crap that, you can turn a roster around in one season is bullshit, especially when it comes to the NY Football Giants.....we have been burned for too many years in free agency and the draft, and because of that we do not have enough building blocks to turn this team right around....
This is a total cluster f*ck, and with the addition of Solder, Omameh, Stewart, Ogletree, etc,. I have no freakin' confidence in the direction DG, Schurm, and ownership are going....
It will take more than one offseason to see a plan take shape, imo. I don't know if they're on the right path or not, but it will take more than one offseason to get a sense of the plan as a whole.
We have a playmaking rb, 1 top wr and a good #2.
We will have a top pick in the draft for a qb.
We add a guard (better guards than OT's in FA) in FA next offseason. We draft a qb in round 1. Then we draft a RT at 2.
Remember we cant fix everything in 2 offseasons.
Hence we seem rudderless one year later...
No matter how anyone wants to spin it, the plan was to contend this year. Counter this to the Jets, who haven’t spent all their cap money & drafted Darnold - they have a better record at 2-3.
I feel bad for Barkley though, I’m proud to root for him & regardless of what you thought of the draft, we should all enjoy his talent and incredibly maturity.
HOWEVER, I’m a big believer of having the GM-HC-QB all on the same schedule with a long-term commitment in place to all. Given, Gettleman’s age, this worries me. Why in the world would Kevin Abrams deserve to be promoted considering he’s been in the building for the last 5 years? I don’t want to start over in 2 years and saddle a GM with a coach or QB. This is why it is so crucial to have a cohesive unit going into the 19 offseason.
If DG/Shurmur were hired based on competing this year, I’d have no issues firing both after this year.
And again, this OL will look different with a QB who can move. Eli makes this OL worse.
Then we have to improve our pass rush the following year or in FA. That would help the coverage downfield a lot.
And again, this OL will look different with a QB who can move. Eli makes this OL worse.
So the OL is ok, if we had a QB who can move?
Who's fault is that?
...his Plan A failed, a total unmitigated disaster.
He thought he could squeeze enough out of Eli by surrounding him with Solder, Hernandez, Barkley et. al.
He now has to go to Plan B.
What is it?
If it DOESN'T including retiring/firing Eli at the end of this season, then there will be NO Plan C for Gettleman, who'll be out on the street once again.
As for the O Line and brining a rookie to play behind it, our O line in 2003?wasn't very good. We had Diehl and Suebert that were solid but not much else. In 2004, they signed O Hars and drafted Snee. 2005 they signed McKenzie. It took a couple years to rebuild that line. I think Solder and Hernandez 2 if the pieces, Wheeler has less than 2 years experience but has shown ability and toughness. I think a RG and C need to be added in the next off season to complete this line.
There was never some critical decision made of rebuild vs. compete. Which other team in the NFL has torn down their roster and rebuilt with rookies knowing the would not compete for a couple of years? How would you sell that to a fan base paying thousands of dollars a year for PSLs? You can commit to younger players and a new direction, but you have to do it while you fill with complimentary pieces so that you can compete. The Giants committed to Barkley and OBJ has pieces to build around and supplemented with Eli thinking he had enough to keep them competitive, not because he was ready to win a Super Bowl with the right pieces. Jonathan Stewart is here in case they went QB in the draft and needed a complimentary piece at RB and not QB.
3rd WR is an afterthought? Who are your top #3 WRs in the league? Those are almost all going to be projects or journeymen. There is not enough talent across the league for every team to go 3 deep with solid talent.
And depth? There is a salary cap and a dearth of talent at OL. Who has talented OL sitting on their bench each week because they can”t crack the starting line up? Those guys need to come through the draft and the Giants have been well below average finding them. That will take time to fix. Trying to do it through FA sets you back, and missing in the draft also sets you back.
I don’t know what some fans want as far as a “plan” to fix the team. The plan is likely to acquire talent at the positions with the most glaring weaknesses and try to scheme around those that can’t be filled to be competitive each year. That is the only way you can go in a league with a salary cap, free agency and parity.
There s light at the end of the tunnel
That s all I got
Things are not quite that bad. We suck, no doubt. But no team has studs at every position.
True, but you need building blocks... where are they?
Engram and Sheppard are good enough if other pieces worked right.
Engram is a fantasy player for BBI....Shepard has not improved since his rookie year....you have one more year of Shepard, only because he is a bargain....
But fix this OL and a lot gets better on O.
Easier said than done....8 years and counting....
So let’s say first round QB, second and third OL, FA OL.
Ok, qb first round...later you say Eli will be better, so that means you want no contribution from your first round pick.....Second and third OL? Are they starters? Will they even play at the rookie level Hernandez has given us? FA? Another Solder/Omameh?
You open a few holes and the D actually has to come up to stop SB. Now they can live with a few big plays and more often he’s hit in our backfield. Eli too will get 30% better if not running for his life, and groom the rookie.
So you want a 23M qb mentor? Behind a plug and play OL? And he will be 30% better(what is your formula by the way)?
Then we have to improve our pass rush the following year or in FA. That would help the coverage downfield a lot.
So essentially nothing is done to the defense? Everything is allocated to the offense?
Your simplistic view needs the right person in charge to do this...and he would have to hit on just about every draft pick and free agent he signs over the next two seasons...
It's not going to happen....maybe in Oz....but not in the Meadowlands...
I see this year and possibly all of next season as more rebuilding. There will be another overhaul of players this off season. Probably a new QB with first pick and best OL for the right side with second pick. The third round is already on IR.
No light at end of tunnel until 2020 season, IMO. Too much money spent on FA to counter years of poor drafting for last few years.
And again, this OL will look different with a QB who can move. Eli makes this OL worse.
This OL?...
This OL need a QB that can RUN! Not just move. There are all out jail breaks and clean edge rushers on every series. You need Mike Vick mobile. At least the D linemen will have to consider containment instead of all out rush.
And again, this OL will look different with a QB who can move. Eli makes this OL worse.
So the OL is ok, if we had a QB who can move?
Who's fault is that?
It’s no ones “fault”. Maybe you should realize plans aren’t executed in a single year. Maybe you should temper your expectations and give a GM 2-3 years before you bury him.
Have you ever worked for a company with a 4 month vision? I haven’t and I wouldn’t want to. It’s really no different. Asking the GM to fix everything in a single offseason is a joke and that’s exactly what you’ve wanted based on your posting history.
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what responses/answers are you expecting at this point?
And again, this OL will look different with a QB who can move. Eli makes this OL worse.
This OL?...
This OL need a QB that can RUN! Not just move. There are all out jail breaks and clean edge rushers on every series. You need Mike Vick mobile. At least the D linemen will have to consider containment instead of all out rush.
Sorry to say this is not Madden, your mobile QB is useless in a wheelchair.
And mobile doesn’t mean run, it means escape easy sacks.
Gettleman tried to patch the OL to buy him time to build his vision of a cohesive OL over a couple years. So far it’s failed. I expect him to try and address the hole at C/RG in free agency. He may have to draft a tackle prospect high in the draft to groom at RT and develop potentially for taking over for Solder.
It would not surprise me at all if we do not go QB again this coming 1st round. There’s a couple real solid tackles and a couple potential elite DL talents. My fear is they again stick with Eli next year. If they do I would probably then question the team. This years decision is what it is and I’m not going to lose my mind over Darnold. They took a potentially generational elite skill position player in Barkley. There was no OT to take in the top 5 never mind the top 10. I liked the Notre Dame OL but they weren’t above Barkley and wouldn’t have made tectonic shifts to our OL situation.
I think the defense is an area they can’t ignore either. Ogletree is going to still be here. Apple, Tomlinson and Hill too. Carter should get a shot next year at OLB/DE. Everyone else is a question mark due to age, salary, fit etc. Collins will be an interesting litmus test for the front office.
I remember Mara mandating the scouts look at QB’s last year. Where did you see it regarding guys this year?
Regarding the plan:
Based on his moves this spring, DG thought they could win immediately this year with Eli. He even said so when speaking to media. I’m looking to the offseason to see if the next phase of the plan includes admitting a colossal mistake by moving Eli off this roster. That is the most pressing decision. Doing so immediately lessens expectations and the pressure to win in 2019. The angst from the media and fanbase goes away replaced by patience.
I get the frustration but be realistic this team is not a one year turnaround. And if you are going to put blame on anyone JR is the one you should be banging the door on. It maybe just my opinion but think about how every single one of our O-line draft picks are not on the team? Regardless of draft position none of them are here Wheeler is our team Vet. That’s Fucked up
Coming out of 2017, the idea held (whether it was true or not) that the level of talent on the Giants roster was not that of a 3-13 record as many blamed it on injuries combined with veteran players who checked out because they knew they were bad.
That was the prism in which ownership (I believe) looked at the team. They didn't believe the roster was THAT BAD and that with a number of "tweaks", you reset everything as if 2017 never happened and you go into 2018 ready to begin again.
If you recall, many here on BBI looked at the Las Vegas over/under number of 6.5 and thought it was a joke, with the idea holding that they were a much better team than that.
So there appeared to be a disconnect between what ownership thought of the team, what the GM did to the roster, and what the fans thought of said roster before September 9 of this year. It's all over the place.
I don't think ownership planned to go 3-13 again. Gettleman and his minions surely didn't see THIS coming. And now we have the fans fighting with each other because each side evaluated the roster differently.
What exactly is emerging from this dumpster fire? Maybe GM doesn’t control all the circumstances, but he certainly controlled who he brought in as free agents and as far as the O-line is concerned it’s been one epic fail starting with Solder who really isn’t playing any better than Flowers did! This fluid seems to be running downhill!
And mobile doesn’t mean run, it means escape easy sacks.
The best QBs in the league would have limited success behind a line that cannot open holes for the running backs consistently enough to establish the running game enough to fool anyone with a play action fake. On top of that the linemen are giving up "easy sacks" on a regular basis as they do their best impersonations of turnstiles & pinwheels.
The coaches are not helping matters with their ill conceived schemes and use of personnel. We need to help the line with extra blockers. We cannot rely on the five linemen alone to get the job done on their own. Our TE & FB combos aren't helping enough yet either, so I would use some of the back up linemen & Ellison in a max protect scheme. We should be able to beat teams with just 2WR & 1RB. Engram should be used on the outside rotating with OBJ, SS, & Latimer. Barkley & Gallman should rotate. With seven men up front we should be able to give Eli some time and give the backs some daylight.
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so Eli’s in a wheelchair or he just can’t move?
And mobile doesn’t mean run, it means escape easy sacks.
The best QBs in the league would have limited success behind a line that cannot open holes for the running backs consistently enough to establish the running game enough to fool anyone with a play action fake. On top of that the linemen are giving up "easy sacks" on a regular basis as they do their best impersonations of turnstiles & pinwheels.
The coaches are not helping matters with their ill conceived schemes and use of personnel. We need to help the line with extra blockers. We cannot rely on the five linemen alone to get the job done on their own. Our TE & FB combos aren't helping enough yet either, so I would use some of the back up linemen & Ellison in a max protect scheme. We should be able to beat teams with just 2WR & 1RB. Engram should be used on the outside rotating with OBJ, SS, & Latimer. Barkley & Gallman should rotate. With seven men up front we should be able to give Eli some time and give the backs some daylight.
Yes I realize that. Except what I’m saying is defenses have no reason to respect our passing game which decreases holes and in general makes the OL a hell of a lot worse.
I guarantee this line is adequate for a more capable QB.
There was never some critical decision made of rebuild vs. compete. Which other team in the NFL has torn down their roster and rebuilt with rookies knowing the would not compete for a couple of years? How would you sell that to a fan base paying thousands of dollars a year for PSLs? You can commit to younger players and a new direction, but you have to do it while you fill with complimentary pieces so that you can compete. The Giants committed to Barkley and OBJ has pieces to build around and supplemented with Eli thinking he had enough to keep them competitive, not because he was ready to win a Super Bowl with the right pieces. Jonathan Stewart is here in case they went QB in the draft and needed a complimentary piece at RB and not QB.
3rd WR is an afterthought? Who are your top #3 WRs in the league? Those are almost all going to be projects or journeymen. There is not enough talent across the league for every team to go 3 deep with solid talent.
And depth? There is a salary cap and a dearth of talent at OL. Who has talented OL sitting on their bench each week because they can”t crack the starting line up? Those guys need to come through the draft and the Giants have been well below average finding them. That will take time to fix. Trying to do it through FA sets you back, and missing in the draft also sets you back.
I don’t know what some fans want as far as a “plan” to fix the team. The plan is likely to acquire talent at the positions with the most glaring weaknesses and try to scheme around those that can’t be filled to be competitive each year. That is the only way you can go in a league with a salary cap, free agency and parity.
What a great post which is not surprising coming from you. Unfortunately, you will not get through to many here.
One small example: DG did in fact draft the nearly unanimous best player in the draft. He obviously intends to draft/rebuild the OL, so complaining that he drafted a RB at 2 with no solid OL is silly. He didn’t draft Barkley just for THIS year
We have the talent on all sides of the field on O# and D#
But no strategy in winning games.
Time management against Panthers were poor. Jags shouldnt have beat us with their sad offense...they have no receivers and we were at home.
The team looks gutless and have to motivation to win.
Its like they are playing to lose.
The game verses Eagles, onces Eli threw the pick I already knew what type of game it was ganna be and which Eli showed up to the game.
DG offseason looked right to me though. We needed a whole new OL and LBers corp and he somehow made that happen with lil cap space we had.
They didnt turn out how we wanted to but it was the best options we had with limited cap.
Next offseason we should have the world on our hands.
Save 15mill off Eli and take the dead money, sign Teddy, Tylor or RG3.
Then get the best LT in FA, move Solder to RT.
We should still have good amount of money left to get a pass rusher and depth
his free agent signings were the total opposite. every one turned out to be a horrible decision
Said he first has to fix the OLine. Went hard after Norwell. He went elsewhere - so they did next best thing - signed someone to replace Flowers. Drafted a stud with the 2nd pick. Brought in some journeymen to patch holes. Let everyone compete - got rid of dead weight.
On defense, added some parts - brought in two guys familiar with DCs scheme. Added, a starter on DL and hopefully another once he gets over the mystery illness. Got rid of some locker room problems.
It all starts up front, he's made clear moves to improve that. Seems pretty obvious to me build both sides from front to back. And he's added possibly best RB have ever had.
Biggest disappointment - the OLine, to date, has not constistently played at a competent level. they don't have to great - just competent.