This will be the biggest test for Herbert to date. If he can do well against a very tough Washington defense, it will be a huge addition to his resume and will essentially cement him as the QB1 in the 2019 Draft (should he choose to declare).
Seasons like last year and this year is to think about this team coming away from it with Barkley and Herbert, the latter playing on a rookie contract for 5 years. I am not scouting guru but I love what I have seen from the guy the few games I have watched, and I am becoming less concerned with the transition from that kind of offense to the NFL.
Is that they may overvalue Herbert because we...
A) didn’t draft a QB last year
B) want to replace Eli ASAP
this kid still has huge question marks that he is answering slowly this year. I would be very excited if he continues to grow and he is our future replacement. But a few struggles in bigger games would certainly temper expectations.
but man watching Saturday football in October for next season for the NFL is majorly depressing, and I love watching college football for just watching football.
It needs to be done, but getting the wrong replacement is worse than not getting one at all. That is why I was fine with the Giants passing on Darnold and Rosen if they weren’t convinced they were the right guys. If they can get Herbert and choose not to, I will attribute it to the same decision.
Having said all of that, the kid has all the physical tools you want. He has a strong arm, he is mobile and he is accurate. He plays in a largely one read offense, but that is becoming commonplace now. I think you find a guy with the physical tools and the right mental approach, and you can teach/scheme the rest.
It needs to be done, but getting the wrong replacement is worse than not getting one at all. That is why I was fine with the Giants passing on Darnold and Rosen if they weren’t convinced they were the right guys. If they can get Herbert and choose not to, I will attribute it to the same decision.
Having said all of that, the kid has all the physical tools you want. He has a strong arm, he is mobile and he is accurate. He plays in a largely one read offense, but that is becoming commonplace now. I think you find a guy with the physical tools and the right mental approach, and you can teach/scheme the rest.
The mental part and acculamating to NFL is the part that makes yoou a great GM or a bad GM. I suspect the kid will make a lot of great throws today. He will tease everyone with oodles of talent.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
The last thing I want is the Giants to panic and take a QB Â
that isn't worth the 1st overall pick. With that said I am high on Herbert and I think he is worthy of that pick. He needs more time to develop but the upside is there. Bring in a stopgap on a 1 year deal like they did in 2004. Let the vet start the season and if they are out of it midseason they could make the switch. Then in 2020 roll with Herbert and Lauletta as the two Qb's and use the massive cap savings to strengthen the rest of the roster.
They will never make a move. Every QB you draft is a gamble. You do your homework and you consider all options, but at the end of the day, you have to trust the process and make a pick. Drafting to avoid failure is a bad approach.
Shurmur knows QBs and what he wants to run and what skills that requires. If he tells DG that Herbert - or anyone else - is a QB that he can win with long term, then go get him.
If like this year they like the QBs but love a pass rusher, go get the pass rusher. You can’t force the pick, but if you like both equally you have to get the QB.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
huh?
People can have their opinions on the position but if you have the slightest doubt about a player.... you cant risk the future by picking him jut to pick him.
I always love that comment we make on BBI too much Â
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
huh?
People can have their opinions on the position but if you have the slightest doubt about a player.... you cant risk the future by picking him jut to pick him.
I cannot fathom how you think this is true. So I am going to presume its just because you like to post a lot of things and sometimes go a bridge too far...
Is that they may overvalue Herbert because we...
A) didn’t draft a QB last year
B) want to replace Eli ASAP
this kid still has huge question marks that he is answering slowly this year. I would be very excited if he continues to grow and he is our future replacement. But a few struggles in bigger games would certainly temper expectations.
He isn't the only QB in 2019. Daniel Jones is a guy scouts have started to fall in love with at Duke. He wasn't really on the radar until this year but David Cutcliffe has him looking like a #1 QB. He has everything you want in a #1 QB. Then you have Drew Lock who has an elite arm and lead the nation in TDs thrown last year. If you take away that stinker he had in a torrential downpour against South Carolina, his numbers would look a lot better. He is still someone who could factor as the #1 QB.
After that is the next tier of Jarrett Stidham, Will Grier, and Ryan Finley all of whom have their supporters and detractors. Jones's emergence is what could really catapult this QB class. All the guys last year were also flawed which is why there wasn't one standout surefire franchise guy.
It needs to be done, but getting the wrong replacement is worse than not getting one at all. That is why I was fine with the Giants passing on Darnold and Rosen if they weren’t convinced they were the right guys. If they can get Herbert and choose not to, I will attribute it to the same decision.
Yes! I think everyone needs to already at least consider the possibility that we will not be very good NEXT season. I know that's a tough pill to swallow. I'm not team Eli, and I'm not advocating keeping him. I'm not for giving up on 2019-2020 right now. However, we currently objectively need: QB, WR3 and down, 3-4 OL, at least 1 EDGE, FS, probably 2 CBs, multiple LBs. That's probably, being conservative, 10 guys that we need to make this roster competitive again. And that's not counting guys we like who we may lose or let go in free agency. I mean...that's at least two successful drafts worth of needs.
I think grabbing the QB we want this draft is fine. But just like this year with Barkley, if our QB isn't there, we shouldn't reach. There's plenty of other holes to fill, and objectively looking at our roster, I think we'll probably be in this same boat after the 2019 season and in position to grab a yet QB again if we haven't already in this one.
What I'm trying to say is, watching and deciding that Herbert isn't great is valuable too. People shouldn't watch and try to convince themselves that he's good if he's not just because we need a QB. There's other positions we need and could take in the 1st round as well, as sad as that is. Not taking a QB this draft isn't an endorsement of current Eli. It's just admitting to ourselves we're in a multi-year rebuild.
The mental part and acculamating to NFL is the part that makes yoou a great GM or a bad GM. I suspect the kid will make a lot of great throws today. He will tease everyone with oodles of talent.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
If any NFL executive tells you they are 99.9% sure about a pick, he is 100% lying. That type of belief comes from the type of person that is "frequently wrong and never in doubt." And that type of person is best left out of the decision making process.
If you have a strong need for a QB and a strong conviction about a prospect relative to other players available, you take him.
It needs to be done, but getting the wrong replacement is worse than not getting one at all. That is why I was fine with the Giants passing on Darnold and Rosen if they weren’t convinced they were the right guys. If they can get Herbert and choose not to, I will attribute it to the same decision.
Having said all of that, the kid has all the physical tools you want. He has a strong arm, he is mobile and he is accurate. He plays in a largely one read offense, but that is becoming commonplace now. I think you find a guy with the physical tools and the right mental approach, and you can teach/scheme the rest.
The mental part and acculamating to NFL is the part that makes yoou a great GM or a bad GM. I suspect the kid will make a lot of great throws today. He will tease everyone with oodles of talent.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
How many times have talent evaluators been all in on a 1st round QB only to be proven wrong at some point in their development? The reality is you have to hope that guys you've hired to do the player development part can actually get the most out of that player. It happens all the time. If this was an exact sceince, every team would have a franchise QB
Is that they may overvalue Herbert because we...
A) didn’t draft a QB last year
B) want to replace Eli ASAP
this kid still has huge question marks that he is answering slowly this year. I would be very excited if he continues to grow and he is our future replacement. But a few struggles in bigger games would certainly temper expectations.
Strong agree with this. Herbert has approached savior status on bbi in the past few days. Not that what we say matters at all. I've got an open mind and look forward to watching him, but I do have a little skepticism for the fast rising qb.
The mental part and acculamating to NFL is the part that makes yoou a great GM or a bad GM. I suspect the kid will make a lot of great throws today. He will tease everyone with oodles of talent.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
If any NFL executive tells you they are 99.9% sure about a pick, he is 100% lying. That type of belief comes from the type of person that is "frequently wrong and never in doubt." And that type of person is best left out of the decision making process.
If you have a strong need for a QB and a strong conviction about a prospect relative to other players available, you take him.
Also agree with this. Smart decision makers think in terms of probabilities and distributions of outcomes, not in binaries.
want to see him at his best under pressure. Today will be a nice litmus test. Im not sold on any QB yet (ok I havent even seen most of them play) but want to see high level production vs quality opponent.
because coming into this season they could still try to convince themselves and the fan base they could still win with Eli. Now there’s no longer any doubt they cannot. If they don’t turn the page at seasons end they are ALL guilty of incompetence
because coming into this season they could still try to convince themselves and the fan base they could still win with Eli. Now there’s no longer any doubt they cannot. If they don’t turn the page at seasons end they are ALL guilty of incompetence
You still cant force a pick just to pick. Imagine passing on Ed Oliver, who could be the next Aaron Donald for a QB whos career is closer to Mariota or Winston?
because coming into this season they could still try to convince themselves and the fan base they could still win with Eli. Now there’s no longer any doubt they cannot. If they don’t turn the page at seasons end they are ALL guilty of incompetence
You still cant force a pick just to pick. Imagine passing on Ed Oliver, who could be the next Aaron Donald for a QB whos career is closer to Mariota or Winston?
Oliver's stop is dropping. He's a lot lighter than what people thought.
RE: RE: RE: This year is different then last year Â
because coming into this season they could still try to convince themselves and the fan base they could still win with Eli. Now there’s no longer any doubt they cannot. If they don’t turn the page at seasons end they are ALL guilty of incompetence
You still cant force a pick just to pick. Imagine passing on Ed Oliver, who could be the next Aaron Donald for a QB whos career is closer to Mariota or Winston?
Oliver's stop is dropping. He's a lot lighter than what people thought.
because coming into this season they could still try to convince themselves and the fan base they could still win with Eli. Now there’s no longer any doubt they cannot. If they don’t turn the page at seasons end they are ALL guilty of incompetence
You still cant force a pick just to pick. Imagine passing on Ed Oliver, who could be the next Aaron Donald for a QB whos career is closer to Mariota or Winston?
That's easy to say now that we know what Mariota and Donald are as players.
But like I said if anyone tells you that they KNEW that Mariota and Winston would be middling QBs and Donald a top three defensive player, they're lying.
RE: RE: I always love that comment we make on BBI too much Â
I am fairly certain, at the time of their pick, every single GM didn't believe they were forcing the pick.
Please don't let your fabulous hindsight get in the way in assessing who is forcing picks and who isn't...
Eli Apple?
Eli Apple does not look like a forced pick by the Giants right now. He has been without question the best player on our defense and the 22nd best player on the team this year. Eli looks like the goods on a team of schmucks.
Last year from 0-5 I stopped caring if Giants won, rooting for Darnold, can't do that again.
But I will watch thanks for heads up
It’s going to be interesting to see what the Giants do.
A) didn’t draft a QB last year
B) want to replace Eli ASAP
this kid still has huge question marks that he is answering slowly this year. I would be very excited if he continues to grow and he is our future replacement. But a few struggles in bigger games would certainly temper expectations.
Having said all of that, the kid has all the physical tools you want. He has a strong arm, he is mobile and he is accurate. He plays in a largely one read offense, but that is becoming commonplace now. I think you find a guy with the physical tools and the right mental approach, and you can teach/scheme the rest.
Having said all of that, the kid has all the physical tools you want. He has a strong arm, he is mobile and he is accurate. He plays in a largely one read offense, but that is becoming commonplace now. I think you find a guy with the physical tools and the right mental approach, and you can teach/scheme the rest.
The mental part and acculamating to NFL is the part that makes yoou a great GM or a bad GM. I suspect the kid will make a lot of great throws today. He will tease everyone with oodles of talent.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
huh?
Shurmur knows QBs and what he wants to run and what skills that requires. If he tells DG that Herbert - or anyone else - is a QB that he can win with long term, then go get him.
If like this year they like the QBs but love a pass rusher, go get the pass rusher. You can’t force the pick, but if you like both equally you have to get the QB.
Melt sherbet for Herbert.
Quote:
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
huh?
People can have their opinions on the position but if you have the slightest doubt about a player.... you cant risk the future by picking him jut to pick him.
I am fairly certain, at the time of their pick, every single GM didn't believe they were forcing the pick.
Please don't let your fabulous hindsight get in the way in assessing who is forcing picks and who isn't...
I am fairly certain, at the time of their pick, every single GM didn't believe they were forcing the pick.
Please don't let your fabulous hindsight get in the way in assessing who is forcing picks and who isn't...
Eli Apple?
Quote:
In comment 14125999 dep026 said:
Quote:
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
huh?
People can have their opinions on the position but if you have the slightest doubt about a player.... you cant risk the future by picking him jut to pick him.
I cannot fathom how you think this is true. So I am going to presume its just because you like to post a lot of things and sometimes go a bridge too far...
Sounds smart.
A) didn’t draft a QB last year
B) want to replace Eli ASAP
this kid still has huge question marks that he is answering slowly this year. I would be very excited if he continues to grow and he is our future replacement. But a few struggles in bigger games would certainly temper expectations.
He isn't the only QB in 2019. Daniel Jones is a guy scouts have started to fall in love with at Duke. He wasn't really on the radar until this year but David Cutcliffe has him looking like a #1 QB. He has everything you want in a #1 QB. Then you have Drew Lock who has an elite arm and lead the nation in TDs thrown last year. If you take away that stinker he had in a torrential downpour against South Carolina, his numbers would look a lot better. He is still someone who could factor as the #1 QB.
After that is the next tier of Jarrett Stidham, Will Grier, and Ryan Finley all of whom have their supporters and detractors. Jones's emergence is what could really catapult this QB class. All the guys last year were also flawed which is why there wasn't one standout surefire franchise guy.
Sounds smart.
lord...
And what about Eli Apple...you saying he wasn't one of the top guys on their board when they picked him?
Yes! I think everyone needs to already at least consider the possibility that we will not be very good NEXT season. I know that's a tough pill to swallow. I'm not team Eli, and I'm not advocating keeping him. I'm not for giving up on 2019-2020 right now. However, we currently objectively need: QB, WR3 and down, 3-4 OL, at least 1 EDGE, FS, probably 2 CBs, multiple LBs. That's probably, being conservative, 10 guys that we need to make this roster competitive again. And that's not counting guys we like who we may lose or let go in free agency. I mean...that's at least two successful drafts worth of needs.
I think grabbing the QB we want this draft is fine. But just like this year with Barkley, if our QB isn't there, we shouldn't reach. There's plenty of other holes to fill, and objectively looking at our roster, I think we'll probably be in this same boat after the 2019 season and in position to grab a yet QB again if we haven't already in this one.
What I'm trying to say is, watching and deciding that Herbert isn't great is valuable too. People shouldn't watch and try to convince themselves that he's good if he's not just because we need a QB. There's other positions we need and could take in the 1st round as well, as sad as that is. Not taking a QB this draft isn't an endorsement of current Eli. It's just admitting to ourselves we're in a multi-year rebuild.
Link - ( New Window )
Quite a moss on that young man, haha.
Well, I think I have only seen him play once,
so I will check him out a little today.
Thanks for that Ryan. Herbert is a good kid.
No more calls. We have a winner!
How about #LoseOnPurposeForHerbert (I Tried)
Quote:
.
No more calls. We have a winner!
I like this one
ALL IN FOR JUSTIN!
Quote:
.
No more calls. We have a winner!
confirmed.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
If any NFL executive tells you they are 99.9% sure about a pick, he is 100% lying. That type of belief comes from the type of person that is "frequently wrong and never in doubt." And that type of person is best left out of the decision making process.
If you have a strong need for a QB and a strong conviction about a prospect relative to other players available, you take him.
Quote:
It needs to be done, but getting the wrong replacement is worse than not getting one at all. That is why I was fine with the Giants passing on Darnold and Rosen if they weren’t convinced they were the right guys. If they can get Herbert and choose not to, I will attribute it to the same decision.
Having said all of that, the kid has all the physical tools you want. He has a strong arm, he is mobile and he is accurate. He plays in a largely one read offense, but that is becoming commonplace now. I think you find a guy with the physical tools and the right mental approach, and you can teach/scheme the rest.
The mental part and acculamating to NFL is the part that makes yoou a great GM or a bad GM. I suspect the kid will make a lot of great throws today. He will tease everyone with oodles of talent.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
How many times have talent evaluators been all in on a 1st round QB only to be proven wrong at some point in their development? The reality is you have to hope that guys you've hired to do the player development part can actually get the most out of that player. It happens all the time. If this was an exact sceince, every team would have a franchise QB
Quote:
(Gotta think of something more clever.)
ALL IN FOR JUSTIN!
This one is good too!
A) didn’t draft a QB last year
B) want to replace Eli ASAP
this kid still has huge question marks that he is answering slowly this year. I would be very excited if he continues to grow and he is our future replacement. But a few struggles in bigger games would certainly temper expectations.
Strong agree with this. Herbert has approached savior status on bbi in the past few days. Not that what we say matters at all. I've got an open mind and look forward to watching him, but I do have a little skepticism for the fast rising qb.
Quote:
The mental part and acculamating to NFL is the part that makes yoou a great GM or a bad GM. I suspect the kid will make a lot of great throws today. He will tease everyone with oodles of talent.
I just hope if they draft his kid, they are 110% behind the pick. Because if they are 99.9% sure he is the goods - then you have to pass on him.
If any NFL executive tells you they are 99.9% sure about a pick, he is 100% lying. That type of belief comes from the type of person that is "frequently wrong and never in doubt." And that type of person is best left out of the decision making process.
If you have a strong need for a QB and a strong conviction about a prospect relative to other players available, you take him.
Also agree with this. Smart decision makers think in terms of probabilities and distributions of outcomes, not in binaries.
Incredible, unbelievable speed for his size
Decent mobility in the pocket
Great character
Very Smart
Rocket arm- Super elite arm strength
Great talent but very little experience. You're basically drafting him for potential but he could be a star. Only 6 starts in college so far.
You still cant force a pick just to pick. Imagine passing on Ed Oliver, who could be the next Aaron Donald for a QB whos career is closer to Mariota or Winston?
Quote:
because coming into this season they could still try to convince themselves and the fan base they could still win with Eli. Now there’s no longer any doubt they cannot. If they don’t turn the page at seasons end they are ALL guilty of incompetence
You still cant force a pick just to pick. Imagine passing on Ed Oliver, who could be the next Aaron Donald for a QB whos career is closer to Mariota or Winston?
Oliver's stop is dropping. He's a lot lighter than what people thought.
Quote:
In comment 14126279 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
because coming into this season they could still try to convince themselves and the fan base they could still win with Eli. Now there’s no longer any doubt they cannot. If they don’t turn the page at seasons end they are ALL guilty of incompetence
You still cant force a pick just to pick. Imagine passing on Ed Oliver, who could be the next Aaron Donald for a QB whos career is closer to Mariota or Winston?
Oliver's stop is dropping. He's a lot lighter than what people thought.
*stock
But yes, I agree with your overall premise
Quote:
because coming into this season they could still try to convince themselves and the fan base they could still win with Eli. Now there’s no longer any doubt they cannot. If they don’t turn the page at seasons end they are ALL guilty of incompetence
You still cant force a pick just to pick. Imagine passing on Ed Oliver, who could be the next Aaron Donald for a QB whos career is closer to Mariota or Winston?
That's easy to say now that we know what Mariota and Donald are as players.
But like I said if anyone tells you that they KNEW that Mariota and Winston would be middling QBs and Donald a top three defensive player, they're lying.
Quote:
"you can't force the pick".
I am fairly certain, at the time of their pick, every single GM didn't believe they were forcing the pick.
Please don't let your fabulous hindsight get in the way in assessing who is forcing picks and who isn't...
Eli Apple?
Eli Apple does not look like a forced pick by the Giants right now. He has been without question the best player on our defense and the 22nd best player on the team this year. Eli looks like the goods on a team of schmucks.