Have been watching him today. I’m no scout but I like what I see. There seems to be something special about him. He’s pretty accurate , definitely has the arm strength and has a good feel in the pocket. 6’6, 230 pounds and looks to be a really good athlete. We’ll see what Sy’56 and the experts say!
Just shows how talented Herbert is. Starting at a very good school like Oregon as a teenager. Will most likely be finished playing there before he turns 21 years old. That's absurd.
This dude is definitely NOT wentz lmao! First off Wentz came outta a prostyle NFL type system, where he had to learn to read defenses and make adjustment. Herbert plays in a gimmick one read offense where he's either in the pistol or shotgun set. He has good arm strength and is decently accurate, but he is in no way Wentz. You might wanna do more scouting before throwing out dumb ass comparisons.
Quote:
But he is not that mobile, does not move around the Pocket well. To me, I see Kerry Collins,
Uh, wtf? One of the things he’s known for is his mobility.
Kerry Collins? I think you’re watching the wrong guy.
Really what QB are you watching kid runs like Kapernink,he’s a long strider and that’s what he’s known for SMH
Quote:
But he is not that mobile, does not move around the Pocket well. To me, I see Kerry Collins,
Uh, wtf? One of the things he’s known for is his mobility.
Kerry Collins? I think you’re watching the wrong guy.
Really what QB are you watching kid runs like Kapernink,he’s a long strider and that’s what he’s known for SMH
Quote:
In comment 14127126 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
But he is not that mobile, does not move around the Pocket well. To me, I see Kerry Collins,
Uh, wtf? One of the things he’s known for is his mobility.
Kerry Collins? I think you’re watching the wrong guy.
Really what QB are you watching kid runs like Kapernink,he’s a long strider and that’s what he’s known for SMH
Did you see the game today? Have you seen Wentz Mahomes and Russell Wilson? Do you think he moves like they do? Trust your eyes not reports.
He is a very intriguing prospect and he
Might go number one. But if you are expecting him to be a Super
Mobile QB in the NFL, you are sadly mistaken
451 yards
3.3 ypc
Darnold: 64.9% 7,229 yds 8.5 y/a 8.7 ay/a 57:22 TD:INT (2.6:1 TD:INT)
Allen: 56.2% 5,066 7.8 y/a 7.7 ay/a 44:21 TD:INT (2.1:1 TD:INT)
Rosen: 60.9% 9,340 8.0 y/a 8.0 ay/a 59:26 TD:INT (2.3:1 TD:INT)
Herbert: 65.2% 5,330 8.9 y/a 9.5 ay/a 49:14 TD:INT (3.5:1 TD:INT)
Obviously different offenses and competition, which can be drastic in CFB, but statistically Herbert is a clear 2nd behind only Mayfield. I'm guessing Football Outsider's QBASE system will love him. For reference, here are the top 10 QBASE projections from 1997-2018:
Philip Rivers
Carson Palmer
Donovan McNabb
Baker Mayfield
Russell Wilson
Peyton Manning
Marcus Mariota
Byron Leftwich
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger
Not perfect, but hitting on 7 of 9 (too early for Mayfield, Leftwich/Mariota the misses) is exceptionally good. IIRC, 10-15% of 1st round QBs become consistent starters (start at least 50% of the games in their career). The 7 hits on this list were/are multiple time pro bowlers.
Link - ( New Window )
Haskins: 71.4% 2,484 yds 9.7 y/a 11.1 ay/a 29:5 TD:INT (5.8:1 TD:INT)
Much smaller sample size with Haskins, especially relative to Mayfield, but his numbers are off the charts! Grier would also statistically rank ahead of the Darnold/Rosen/Allen trio.
Not sure if this is serious...
I mean if we are going by stats, McKenzie Milton should be a top 5 pick.
It means the qb is ready cam newton does some thing. Phillip Rivers lifts his leg. Holy cow the nitpicking is here. The kid is the goods he can make any pass, moves around when he needs to and can take a hit. Every qb is a system qb. How’s texas tech for qbs? Pretty good so Mahomes should never of been drafted then? Everyone is putting him in Canton right now.
I said it before and say again. Solder was about as big of a mistake as DV could have made. Reese passing on Whitworth and Cam Robinson could have made the line at least functional. Other than Maybe Hernandez and a bigger maybe in Wheeler who really has a future on the OL last this year or next. Solder is here due to his contract but he looks just as bad as the rest
Quote:
The OL so atrociously bad that it really doesn't matter who the QB is. We really need to get the OL at least up to midling before throwing a new QB out there, lest we create David Carr 2.0. Even if we draft a stud QB in April, expect him to sit for a year behind Eli, because I doubt there is enough draft capital or FA to fix the OL and Draft a QB #1 next year.
I said it before and say again. Solder was about as big of a mistake as DV could have made. Reese passing on Whitworth and Cam Robinson could have made the line at least functional. Other than Maybe Hernandez and a bigger maybe in Wheeler who really has a future on the OL last this year or next. Solder is here due to his contract but he looks just as bad as the rest
Funny, cause PFF has Solder as an above average LT this year. He is right around 68.0 for the season. Hernandez is 76. Everyone else is below 55. So Solder doesn't seem to be the problem nor just as bad as everyone else. The others beside Solder and Hernandez are the problems. So not a mistake cause imagine the Giants still rolling out Ereck Flowers and his 53 at LT.
Quote:
bust written all over him. Cant stand that offense either. Watching him clap before the snap like that makes him look like a system QB
It means the qb is ready cam newton does some thing. Phillip Rivers lifts his leg. Holy cow the nitpicking is here. The kid is the goods he can make any pass, moves around when he needs to and can take a hit. Every qb is a system qb. How’s texas tech for qbs? Pretty good so Mahomes should never of been drafted then? Everyone is putting him in Canton right now.
Take it easy, just my opinion. He looks mechanical. Its not exactly crazy not to like QBs from that offense either. We’ll see.
not sure he is the type that can come in and play right
away. You might need a stopgap QB with him for a year or two, like a Bridgewater type. Not saying Bridgewater
per se, saying somebody like that for a year or two.
I have seen more of Haskins, big kid, big arm,
but leery of kids that may want to come into the draft too early.
He is RS sophomore, and hasn't had a lot of experience yet at the college level. Good potential,
I thought it was weird for example that the Bears went up
in the draft to take that kid, Trubisky, based on 13 starts in college.
We'll see on him, but just personally a bit leery.
Quote:
In comment 14127168 .McL. said:
Quote:
The OL so atrociously bad that it really doesn't matter who the QB is. We really need to get the OL at least up to midling before throwing a new QB out there, lest we create David Carr 2.0. Even if we draft a stud QB in April, expect him to sit for a year behind Eli, because I doubt there is enough draft capital or FA to fix the OL and Draft a QB #1 next year.
I said it before and say again. Solder was about as big of a mistake as DV could have made. Reese passing on Whitworth and Cam Robinson could have made the line at least functional. Other than Maybe Hernandez and a bigger maybe in Wheeler who really has a future on the OL last this year or next. Solder is here due to his contract but he looks just as bad as the rest
Funny, cause PFF has Solder as an above average LT this year. He is right around 68.0 for the season. Hernandez is 76. Everyone else is below 55. So Solder doesn't seem to be the problem nor just as bad as everyone else. The others beside Solder and Hernandez are the problems. So not a mistake cause imagine the Giants still rolling out Ereck Flowers and his 53 at LT.
That's why PFF should be used as a gauge, Solder has allowed five sacks, a few holding calls.
He hasn't played a 'clean' game yet, he has underperformed to this point of the season.
He plays with more talent than any other player not named Tua. He isn’t that mobile and comes from a coach friendly offense. Look beyond stats.
He plays with more talent than any other player not named Tua. He isn’t that mobile and comes from a coach friendly offense. Look beyond stats.
Kyle incoming at 3, 2, 1
Quote:
In comment 14127168 .McL. said:
Quote:
The OL so atrociously bad that it really doesn't matter who the QB is. We really need to get the OL at least up to midling before throwing a new QB out there, lest we create David Carr 2.0. Even if we draft a stud QB in April, expect him to sit for a year behind Eli, because I doubt there is enough draft capital or FA to fix the OL and Draft a QB #1 next year.
I said it before and say again. Solder was about as big of a mistake as DV could have made. Reese passing on Whitworth and Cam Robinson could have made the line at least functional. Other than Maybe Hernandez and a bigger maybe in Wheeler who really has a future on the OL last this year or next. Solder is here due to his contract but he looks just as bad as the rest
Funny, cause PFF has Solder as an above average LT this year. He is right around 68.0 for the season. Hernandez is 76. Everyone else is below 55. So Solder doesn't seem to be the problem nor just as bad as everyone else. The others beside Solder and Hernandez are the problems. So not a mistake cause imagine the Giants still rolling out Ereck Flowers and his 53 at LT.
You lost me at PFF. They suck as bad as our OL. Solder was beaten as bad as Flowers Thursday at times. On the fumble at the goal line he was solely responsible. Was Still In his stance she the DE blew by him. And his contract is another albatross. Ok so he doesn’t suck as bad as Flowers. Great. But spare be the morons at PFF.
Please post a link to thre resumes of who is rating the OLs. If they are legit I’ll admit I’m wrong. And by legit NFL level scouting level. Ex HS coaches. Not on my list of reputable
Quote:
In comment 14127250 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 14127168 .McL. said:
Quote:
The OL so atrociously bad that it really doesn't matter who the QB is. We really need to get the OL at least up to midling before throwing a new QB out there, lest we create David Carr 2.0. Even if we draft a stud QB in April, expect him to sit for a year behind Eli, because I doubt there is enough draft capital or FA to fix the OL and Draft a QB #1 next year.
I said it before and say again. Solder was about as big of a mistake as DV could have made. Reese passing on Whitworth and Cam Robinson could have made the line at least functional. Other than Maybe Hernandez and a bigger maybe in Wheeler who really has a future on the OL last this year or next. Solder is here due to his contract but he looks just as bad as the rest
Funny, cause PFF has Solder as an above average LT this year. He is right around 68.0 for the season. Hernandez is 76. Everyone else is below 55. So Solder doesn't seem to be the problem nor just as bad as everyone else. The others beside Solder and Hernandez are the problems. So not a mistake cause imagine the Giants still rolling out Ereck Flowers and his 53 at LT.
You lost me at PFF. They suck as bad as our OL. Solder was beaten as bad as Flowers Thursday at times. On the fumble at the goal line he was solely responsible. Was Still In his stance she the DE blew by him. And his contract is another albatross. Ok so he doesn’t suck as bad as Flowers. Great. But spare be the morons at PFF.
Please post a link to thre resumes of who is rating the OLs. If they are legit I’ll admit I’m wrong. And by legit NFL level scouting level. Ex HS coaches. Not on my list of reputable
PFF is certainly flawed, but a guy sitting on his couch ridiculing resumes is a bit comical, no? You seem to have a strong opinion on this so I guess you wouldn’t mind sharing your resume as well? We can compare theirs to yours.
I’m not saying you are one of them, I have no idea where you stood on the Solder signing in real time. But I do know that the same people killing Gettleman for signing him would be the same guys ripping him had he not signed him and the OL was this poor. All we’d see is posts like “Great job Gettleman! You could have had Solder but instead decided to ignore the OL again and now look! I guess you thought the OL was good enough so no need to make any changes!”.
I fully expect those people to deny it now, it’s typical. But we all know that’s exactly what we’d be seeing all over this site
(Then again, at least this year we won't have to deal with all the posters who saw nothing but red flags in last year's QB crop, while ignoring all the red flags in the 2017/2018 version of Eli.)
Kerry Collins??
Quote:
In comment 14127270 Deejboy said:
Quote:
In comment 14127250 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 14127168 .McL. said:
Quote:
The OL so atrociously bad that it really doesn't matter who the QB is. We really need to get the OL at least up to midling before throwing a new QB out there, lest we create David Carr 2.0. Even if we draft a stud QB in April, expect him to sit for a year behind Eli, because I doubt there is enough draft capital or FA to fix the OL and Draft a QB #1 next year.
I said it before and say again. Solder was about as big of a mistake as DV could have made. Reese passing on Whitworth and Cam Robinson could have made the line at least functional. Other than Maybe Hernandez and a bigger maybe in Wheeler who really has a future on the OL last this year or next. Solder is here due to his contract but he looks just as bad as the rest
Funny, cause PFF has Solder as an above average LT this year. He is right around 68.0 for the season. Hernandez is 76. Everyone else is below 55. So Solder doesn't seem to be the problem nor just as bad as everyone else. The others beside Solder and Hernandez are the problems. So not a mistake cause imagine the Giants still rolling out Ereck Flowers and his 53 at LT.
You lost me at PFF. They suck as bad as our OL. Solder was beaten as bad as Flowers Thursday at times. On the fumble at the goal line he was solely responsible. Was Still In his stance she the DE blew by him. And his contract is another albatross. Ok so he doesn’t suck as bad as Flowers. Great. But spare be the morons at PFF.
Please post a link to thre resumes of who is rating the OLs. If they are legit I’ll admit I’m wrong. And by legit NFL level scouting level. Ex HS coaches. Not on my list of reputable
PFF is certainly flawed, but a guy sitting on his couch ridiculing resumes is a bit comical, no? You seem to have a strong opinion on this so I guess you wouldn’t mind sharing your resume as well? We can compare theirs to yours.
I’m not saying you are one of them, I have no idea where you stood on the Solder signing in real time. But I do know that the same people killing Gettleman for signing him would be the same guys ripping him had he not signed him and the OL was this poor. All we’d see is posts like “Great job Gettleman! You could have had Solder but instead decided to ignore the OL again and now look! I guess you thought the OL was good enough so no need to make any changes!”.
I fully expect those people to deny it now, it’s typical. But we all know that’s exactly what we’d be seeing all over this site
Well said...but thats coming from a fan of the signing haha
another big statue. No thanks.
Quote:
But he is not that mobile, does not move around the Pocket well. To me, I see Kerry Collins,
Not sure if this is serious...
Vanzetti sees something maybe he needs to check his eyes poor guy
I mean if we are going by stats, McKenzie Milton should be a top 5 pick.
Some skillsets translate (at least to a degree) to the NFL, most notably completion %. It's why many wanted nothing to do with Josh Allen and why he'd be an anomaly if he turns into a starting caliber QB, let alone a top 10 guy.
And there are some statistical based methodologies like QBASE that have demonstrated some success in identifying pro-prospects.
(Then again, at least this year we won't have to deal with all the posters who saw nothing but red flags in last year's QB crop, while ignoring all the red flags in the 2017/2018 version of Eli.)
Yup selective focusinh
yeah I call bullshit on this. There are a lot of teams in the league with a shitty OL. You can absolutely take other QBs in the league and put them on this team. No, the would not "flourish" because the line is bad. However, they would find a way to move the chains more than we do right now. They would be able to make that first guy miss to find an open WR more than what we are seeing now. It would not be perfect, but to say it does not matter who the QB is ... bullshit.
All you need to do is look at the handful of plays this year when Shurmur rolled Eli out of the pocket. He actually made a high percentage of those plays. People here asked where those plays have been over the past few years. Well, that is what you would get if you had someone who felt more comfortable moving out of the pocket under duress. Another QB (Not all of them) would be able to do that and create something out of nothing when the line is falling apart.
Quote:
The OL so atrociously bad that it really doesn't matter who the QB is.
yeah I call bullshit on this. There are a lot of teams in the league with a shitty OL. .
Yeah I call bullshit on this too. There might be a few teams with bad OLine play but there were many QBs, many immobile..... who drink tea while waiting to throw. I ddidnt see many unaccounted defenders breaking free. I didn’t see as many whiffs by OL.
It’s ok to acknowledge that our QB is done AND we might possibly have the worst OL in the league.
Quote:
Pick. Not even close. Maybe next year. But he struggled mightily against PSU. His stats were inflated because they took screens for huge chunk of yards. Throwing for big yards against Minnesota, Indiana, Rutgers isn’t worthy of even noting.
He plays with more talent than any other player not named Tua. He isn’t that mobile and comes from a coach friendly offense. Look beyond stats.
Kyle incoming at 3, 2, 1
:)
What'd you think of his game against Minnesota?
Quote:
In comment 14127168 .McL. said:
Quote:
The OL so atrociously bad that it really doesn't matter who the QB is.
yeah I call bullshit on this. There are a lot of teams in the league with a shitty OL. .
Yeah I call bullshit on this too. There might be a few teams with bad OLine play but there were many QBs, many immobile..... who drink tea while waiting to throw. I ddidnt see many unaccounted defenders breaking free. I didn’t see as many whiffs by OL.
It’s ok to acknowledge that our QB is done AND we might possibly have the worst OL in the league.
Dep my point which you chose to ignore is that I disagree with the notion that "an QB would such on this team right now". It is bullshit and you know it.
People want to keep saying this and it just simply isnt true.
Herbert is the ultimate, I dont want to say risk, but lets say unknown. Size, mobility, arm strength, good attitude, etc. Everything measureable wise he has.
The question is can he translate that to success in the NFL. If we get him, lets keep our fingers cross.
I tend to agree with you on Haskins probably needing another year too. I do think he has first round talent. The only thing he's really lacking is elite athleticism and mobility. Great arm talent. But he's so inexperienced it's tough to imagine him making the leap already. But some big games coming up to get a better feel for him.
People want to keep saying this and it just simply isnt true.
This is inaccurate. The Titans gave up 11 sacks yesterday, the browns almost got Baker killed. The O-line play in the Bills-Texans game was atrocious. The broncos O-line is bad, so is the packers, so is the Seahawks, so is the Colts. O-line play in the Cardinals-Vikings game was pitiful. Shall I go on?
Quote:
I quoted it. There arent a lot of bad OLines in the league. There's actually quite a lot of good ones. NFL is on pace to break all kinds of records this year.
People want to keep saying this and it just simply isnt true.
This is inaccurate. The Titans gave up 11 sacks yesterday, the browns almost got Baker killed. The O-line play in the Bills-Texans game was atrocious. The broncos O-line is bad, so is the packers, so is the Seahawks, so is the Colts. O-line play in the Cardinals-Vikings game was pitiful. Shall I go on?
Titans have 2 all-pros on their roster. Their "mobile QB" just likes to hold the ball and cant read a defense.
Cleveland's OL is not bad whatsoever. They may have had a bad game.
Keenum was sacked twice and threw for 322 yards in 24 minutes.
Packers OL was bad yesterday? Hmmm...
See I love when people say Seattles OL is bad. Yesterday 155 yards rushing. The week before 190, the week before that 171, the week before that...114
So is that bad OL play? Or do we refuse to watch games?
Colts, Cardinals, Bills - yes have bad OLs. Two of them start rookie QBs and the colts well are the colts.
Quote:
In comment 14128992 dep026 said:
Quote:
I quoted it. There arent a lot of bad OLines in the league. There's actually quite a lot of good ones. NFL is on pace to break all kinds of records this year.
People want to keep saying this and it just simply isnt true.
This is inaccurate. The Titans gave up 11 sacks yesterday, the browns almost got Baker killed. The O-line play in the Bills-Texans game was atrocious. The broncos O-line is bad, so is the packers, so is the Seahawks, so is the Colts. O-line play in the Cardinals-Vikings game was pitiful. Shall I go on?
Titans have 2 all-pros on their roster. Their "mobile QB" just likes to hold the ball and cant read a defense.
Cleveland's OL is not bad whatsoever. They may have had a bad game.
Keenum was sacked twice and threw for 322 yards in 24 minutes.
Packers OL was bad yesterday? Hmmm...
See I love when people say Seattles OL is bad. Yesterday 155 yards rushing. The week before 190, the week before that 171, the week before that...114
So is that bad OL play? Or do we refuse to watch games?
Colts, Cardinals, Bills - yes have bad OLs. Two of them start rookie QBs and the colts well are the colts.
Just like an OL can have a bad game, they can have a decent game as well, which the Broncos o-line did. This is why I didn't specify game for the Broncos or packers.
I like Lewan and Conklin, and I don't disagree that Mariotta holds the ball too long, I'll even go as far to say he sucks, but the o-line play was really bad yesterday. There has also been very limited running room all year.
The Seahawks stay committed to the run. Brian Schottenheimer is an awful OC, but I'll say that about them.
Overall OL play has not been good.
Quote:
In comment 14127362 dep026 said:
Quote:
Pick. Not even close. Maybe next year. But he struggled mightily against PSU. His stats were inflated because they took screens for huge chunk of yards. Throwing for big yards against Minnesota, Indiana, Rutgers isn’t worthy of even noting.
He plays with more talent than any other player not named Tua. He isn’t that mobile and comes from a coach friendly offense. Look beyond stats.
Kyle incoming at 3, 2, 1
:)
What'd you think of his game against Minnesota?
Looked really good. Damn good. Accuracy was on point.